Borodino bread- Moulinex

Thank you very much for your attention, ROMA, Renata, fugaska! ... I am trying to answer the questions. I used dry yeast D "Otter (the same at all stages). I believe that there is no mistake here. After reading many of the recommended topics on rye bread. I conclude that Stage 1 is brewing, and Stage 2 is leaven. I did not come up with a recipe - this is a recipe from the company, you can see it on the website 🔗... My recipe book is identical to the one presented on the site, and the program on the HP is called Borodinsky bread, that is, it offers the stages: brewing (outside the HP), sourdough (stage 2), final kneading and baking (stage 3). What is, after all, the fundamental principle of the "error": a violation of the liquid-flour proportions, but then why something can be obtained using a combination of other programs?
Yes, also, speaking of programs, the site often recommends the program "Rye", but I don't have one. How to replace it?
Renata, as I understand it, you actually baked in a conventional oven, and not in HP. And to knead on program 2 (this is a French bun), it assumes that bread should be. "rubbery" with a crispy crust. Most likely, this is "not an option" for Borodinsky.
I have a photo of "my freak", but the file is> 2MB. If anyone wants, I can send it to the "PM"

but then why something can be obtained using a combination of other programs?
Yes, also, speaking of programs, the site often recommends the program "Rye", but I don't have one. How to replace it?
Renata, as I understand it, you actually baked in a conventional oven, and not in HP. And to knead on program 2 (this is a French bun), it assumes that bread should be. "rubbery" with a crispy crust.

Mruklik, I just baked in KhP, having combined several programs. As you quite correctly put it, it turned out exactly "something", and not the real "Borodinsky".
Admin pointed to the link to the recipe "Borodinsky for the lazy", judging by the photos and the number of positive reviews, it is still possible to bake a real "Borodinsky", even with a combination of different programs.
As for our branded program for Borodinsky, I think it's too early to despair. This kind of bread is in principle very difficult to bake without proper experience, so let's use all the tips and try again! A sporting interest awoke in me. In the near future I will try to bake only on the "Borodinsky" program, without additional tweaks!
Although it is possible that this special program is just a clever move by the manufacturers, that is, "lure".
Mruklik, send me your handsome! It's a pity I didn't record mine anywhere! ...

So I baked my first sourdough rye bread without adding yeast. I read all the recipes and recommendations available on the forum, using my intuition and the result exceeded my expectations. The husband is delighted! The bread rose 2 times, soft, fragrant, even a crust with a hump turned out (I was preparing mentally for a flat roof in the form of a brick). Today we ate for breakfast as a sandwich with butter and cheese.
Structure:
sourdough - 4 tbsp. l. on top, put it on the eye,
wheat flour - 55 gr. (during the kneading process, 9 more measuring tablespoons were added),
rye flour - 220 gr.
salt - 3/4 tsp.,
olive oil - 1 tbsp l.
rye malt - 20 gr.
boiling water for malt - 40 ml (this was not enough, I had to add, it turned out probably 50 ml),
honey - 1 tbsp. l.
coriander - 1 tsp (added at the end of kneading directly to the dough, I was afraid that it would not stick on top)
water - 150 ml.
Preparation:
I poured the malt with boiling water, cooled it, then put all the components in the HP container (except for the coriander, which was the last thing before the end of the second batch). I did 2 batches on the baguettes program.(I have already said that I chose this program for myself as the optimal one, kneading white, gray bread once on this program). Then she left the av KhP dough for an hour, after that she took it out and kneaded it and rolled the cake into the shape of the future bread and put it back into the KhP container in the center. I left it on the rise for 8 hours, although according to my observations it was possible to bake after 6 hours. After this time, the bread rose 2 times. I sprinkled water on the top of it and ran program 14 - "bake" with the lightest crust for an hour. That's all!
Sourdough is a thing !!! Thanks Admin! My mom has been baking bread, cakes, pastries all her life ... and I never thought that she would ask me for recipes. I gave her half of the leaven, wrote the recipes. For me, this is the best recognition of the taste and quality of bread.

Kseny, I love sourdough baking. Your experience is valuable. What sourdough was used?

Lyulёk, partly owes its success to you, your support and advice when I failed. The leaven used lactic acid rye from Admin (kefir + rye flour).
Now I have two of them: one rye, the other wheat (on 1 grade flour) - white, I think it will be useful for baking white bread, buns, loaves, pizza.
I also put kvass on the leaven. The smell is wonderful! It is worth "playing", it will be ready soon.

And tell me, please, how much sourdough is needed for about 400 grams of flour? I have an LG 156 stove. It is not designed for more. I am trying to make a lactic acid ferment on whey for the first time from Admin. I fed it a second time.

I would take 160 gr. 400 gr. flour. For me, a sourdough content of 40% of the flour is ideal. The bread rises well, the taste is excellent, there is no sourness at all. Try this, then you can add, focusing on your taste and the result. Since everyone has different tastes and different starters, trust your intuition. Even at first, when I was kneading the dough, I tasted it, looked at the smell of the dough. You can also try to bake small bread (250 grams of flour), in any case, it helped me, and then, if the bread does not work out very well, then it will not be much. You do not have to suffer for a long time eating it, and start trying to bake again. When you get the bread you like, double the recipe and get the same great result. But I like to bake small buns more often.

And tell me, please. The jar in which the sourdough is fed must be closed tightly or not closed at all. I fed mine twice. Rises well. Already half a can. If I don't have time to feed her at the same time tomorrow as today? It is fundamentally? Is yeast necessary if there is sourdough? When should the starter be introduced? I will torment you with my questions. I read a bunch of forums about sourdough and still, probably, until you do it yourself, you won't understand.

I close the lid. Sometimes I air it, that is, I opened it, looked, mixed it. Sometimes not, then airing coincides with feeding. It's okay for now. For myself, I determined that the time for feeding is not important. It so happened that I took a part for baking, and the remaining lumpy only the next day, and everything is fine.
I do not use yeast when using sourdough, and the proofing takes 6-8 hours. Many people add yeast to speed up the process. It's how you like it.
First I put the starter culture in the HP container, then the liquid, etc., and the flour last and knead. I think it doesn't matter with the use of sourdough. And if you use yeast, then follow the instructions of your HP. The main thing is not to be mistaken with the amount of yeast, here I will not tell you, since I do not use it.
I like to knead the dough later in the evening and bake in the morning.
Good luck!

Peace be with you bakers!
Borodinsky on the program I got it from the second time to
corrected recipe from the Mulinex website
but after that I no longer baked because my family doesn’t like Borodinsky in the printsip, but for one myself it’s not interesting
but in any case, the bread turned out to be decent, although not high and dense, but the taste and color as they say ........

We tried to bake this bread according to both recipes (from the book and corrected from the site).
It turned out to be something unintelligible, low and dense ...
I don’t remember the taste, but it seemed like they ate it.
So far, this recipe has been abandoned.

I compared Borodinsky's recipes from the Mulinex website and from my recipe book, they are ABSOLUTELY the same. Why are they different for everyone else? Or did I come across the correct recipe book?

I compared Borodinsky's recipes from the Mulinex website and from my recipe book, they are ABSOLUTELY the same. Why are they different for everyone else?

Most likely because the stoves were bought at different times.
Ours is almost a year old, yours is most likely younger, therefore the recipe book has already been corrected.
The new version of the book was posted on the Mulinex website in March of this year, so it is obvious that the recipes for the Internet version will be with changes and additions.

[the second time]

...
Borodinsky on the program I got it from the second time to
corrected recipe from the Mulinex website
........

Could you describe in more detail:
1) why the second time turned out, but for the first time WHAT? and
2) Did you exactly follow the instructions for cooking on the Borodino bread program? What was in the bucket after stage 2, before stage 3. There is so little water and flour there that it did not mix well in my bucket, and there was neither dough nor water at the bottom, but (I can’t even pick up a description) and bubbled slightly. And as a result, I described here - the crust is delicious, but inside there is a "hole and a little bit of clay"

Peace be with you bakers!
the first time did not work out due to the wrong recipe and lack of experience, hurried, then looked at the corrected recipe,
practiced on Darnitsky, understood how rye flour behaves,
I read the advice of meters and started.
I followed the recipe, helped with the kneading, although at the second stage I replaced 100g of water with kvass - that seems to be all
baked and crust normal

Dear Shade! Sorry for my importunity, but m b. stupidity. But I just don't understand:
Stage 1 (separately in a bowl) - slurry (steamed malt)
Stage 2 - in KhP (the beginning of the Borodinsky program) - and not a "half-test" and not a bun, it spread along the bottom
Stage 3 - pour out the "slurry" on this "half dough", add water, etc., at the end of the yeast, and continue the Borodinsky program - at the end of d. B. bread. Which I didn't succeed
Some "masters" say that due to a lack of flour (an excess of liquid ingredients), but they have different HP. That is why your experience is so interesting to me. You did not increase the amount of flour, did not add wheat flour or panifarin; only added 100 ml of kvass instead of water in step 2? How did it LOOK in your bucket (phrase - super) THAT, into which you began to pour the ingredients of stage 3?

Peace be with you bakers!
Mruklik is not stupidity and intrusiveness ask again
you will waste less products
1 stage in a separate bowl
Stage 2 in a bucket
Stage 3 mixture from a bowl and further down the list
it all looked not very good, but in the process something began to emerge
did not add anything and did not change BUT BUT BUT there is one thing but METERS correctly speaking and the kolobok rule has not been canceled, although of course it is not the same as in wheat, but something like that should be
and also flour, yeast, honey, everything must be picked up by typing
and for this you may need to add flour or yeast

Kseny, do you probably have some kind of "baking" mode? I don't have that in the stove. Does the dough have to be allowed to stand with sourdough? I will torment you a little with questions. I put my starter on Saturday, fed it Sunday and this morning. Does it still need to be fed or can it already be used? She put rye. For white bread, as I understand it, it is not suitable?

Yes, there are just pastries in my oven, I use them. I knead separately, bake separately. I leave the dough to rise overnight, bake it in the morning while I am going to work. Sourdough dough without yeast rises longer, I have 6-8 hours.You can bake in the oven if there is no separate program in the HP, or add a little yeast, then bake in the HP. If you add yeast, read the Admin recipes, she is an expert in this matter. I think that the leaven can already be used, probably better tomorrow, evaluate its condition and readiness. Read the topic about leavens in questions and answers, it helped me a lot, though I had to read it 2 times, many opinions of recommendations, I had to "digest" everything. For white bread, your sourdough is also suitable, only the bread will not be pure white, but with "interspersed" rye flour, but very tasty. Then you can divide your leaven into two, feed one with rye flour, the second with wheat flour, but preferably 1 or second grade (not the highest), gradually it will turn into white. Now I have kneaded bread with sourdough from wheat flour of the 1st grade, the bun looks white, soft to the touch, but not sticky. Added flax seeds In the morning I will bake.
Good luck to you!

Thank you very much for your attention. I've read so many things already. It is not possible to "digest" yet. I look at my leaven, trying to assess its condition, but .... Although I reviewed all the photos of Admin and all the tips. I came home from work at about seven (we have an hour difference in time) and beat it. Now she has risen again, inside like a sponge. I made 50 g of flour per 50 whey for a sample. Stands in a liter jar. Two-thirds full.

And what confuses you about the leaven?

Nothing bothers me, I just don't know whether she is ready or not. Now I have reviewed and re-read everything that Admin has. It turns out that she needs to be fed one more time. It seems to me that she will come out of the can. Is it possible to transfer it somewhere? And I still didn't understand. Should the starter culture you put in the jar need to be fed three times or should it stand for five days in the refrigerator without feeding?

Sorry Admin. All in my own mind, I didn't even notice who answered.

I answer your question in the topic "Ferments in Questions and Answers".

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.new#new

Yesterday I tried to bake Borodinsky exactly according to the recipe and on the appropriate program. I measured everything exactly, e-scales. At the 3rd stage, problems began: the oak mass (you cannot call it another word) did not mix in any way, the mixers lifted it up and threshed it in vain. I tried my best to help with a spatula - it didn't work. It still didn't mix. In the heat of the moment I added 50 ml of water, somehow began to mix, the mass ceased to be oak, but became clearly too liquid. I began to add wheat flour - it does not mix again !!! I had to turn off program 9, turned on the "dough" program, added a lot of wheat flour (as long as I don’t remember, because my eyes were already square), shovel the oven for 25 minutes, did not stir anything. I pulled out the dough, kneaded it with my hands, formed a brick and on the "baking" program for 50 minutes. baked. It turned out very much !!! delicious and beautiful bread, I didn't even expect it, to be honest. Baked for 1000 g, 9 cm high loaf (thanks to wheat flour). Like this! Learn, learn, learn ...

Peace be with you bakers!
Renata recipe can be both perfect and verified
but we do not know from what flour they baked what yeast there
used water and the rest of the ingredients
agree with us what you can buy in the store and even if you measure everything on the scales, it is not a fact that it will turn out as they calculated
what you have done takes place
to prepare everything means stages 1 and 2
then make a bookmark and turn on the dough kneading + dough program
and then baking 1h-1h10m
it will turn out no worse or maybe better, since there is an opportunity to increase the ascent time
of course I just want to use hp to its fullest and if there is a program then it should work
and look, Elena bo gave a link
Wheat flour is included in Borodinsky. It helps the bread rise a little. Here's a look at the recipe link 🔗

Peace be with you bakers!
Renata recipe can be both perfect and verified
but we do not know from what flour they baked what yeast there
used water and the rest of the ingredients
agree with us what you can buy in the store and even if you measure everything on the scales, it is not a fact that it will turn out as they calculated

I completely agree with you, there may well be inconsistencies in the products.

then make a bookmark and turn on the dough kneading + dough program
and then baking 1h-1h10m
it will turn out no worse or maybe better, since there is an opportunity to increase the ascent time
of course I just want to use hp to its fullest and if there is a program then it should work
and look, Elena bo gave a link
Wheat flour is included in Borodinsky. It helps the bread rise a little. Here's a look at the recipe link 🔗

I also deflated the formed brick after kneading on the "dough" program for 50 minutes, so it rose so well, if I turned on baking right away, it would have turned out to be a real brick!
I looked at the link, thanks!

sw. bakers, I also have a mulinex stove. that's why I became interested in the topic. until I encountered such difficulties when baking Borodinsky, for the reason that I cannot find some of the ingredients. tell me. where did you get the malt, panifarin, and more hops .. (needed for other recipes) I will be very grateful, because because of a small child I have limited movement and go to few places.
THX.

Peace be with you bakers!
MARGOSha and where are you from --- write the stove and the location in the profile

Moscow, South-West Administrative District, m. University.
moulinex stove))) ... the one that Borodinsky bakes ... I don't know its exact model
I will register in the profile

Peace be with you bakers!
MARGOSHA
well, probably on the VVC in the house of bread or in the house of honey on Novokuznetskaya
although how lucky there

[Borodinsky on mode Borodinsky bread]

And I did it !!! : wow: Thank you very much for your advice, interest. Borodinsky on mode Borodinsky bread at Moulinex HBB turned out, but I made a small amendment to the original recipe, following the advice of ROMA and fugaska, 490g flour was (390g - rye, 100g - wheat) and very carefully measured the water... Most likely my mistake was an overdose of water (I didn't measure it very carefully). There will be science for me that 1-2 hours. l. water (!!!! just) also play a role, especially on rye flour. The resulting Borodinsky was also not high, but it was baked well, but the taste remained (for which I fought)

But I didn't succeed. Rather, it turned out "something".
The bread was badly mixed, did not grow at all. I shook it out of the bucket with difficulty. Now I read that there is a mistake in the recipe. I will try to bake one more bread.

Do not be upset, you will succeed. I also had a "freak" first. You just need to follow a little at the beginning of the bun and at Stage 2 for the leaven - I help the "oven" knead it, slightly push it with a spatula from the edges, since the amount of leaven is very small, and if you "entrust" only HP, then the mixers do not capture everything ... Good luck to you!

Here is my Borodinsky recipe from the book for the Mulinex 5004 bread maker:


The changes are as follows: I take flour in a total of 500 grams, of which - 200 g ordinary rye (I have Nastyusha), 200 g - rye wallpaper (Belovodye) and 100 g of wheat wallpaper (also Belovodye). I also add 1 tbsp. l. panifarin and 1.5 tbsp. l. Extra-R. And cumin. Everything else is strictly according to the recipe. Of course, I use wheat flour, but somehow it didn't work very well without it. Therefore, I take wallpaper, so that at least there is more benefit. The taste is rich, Borodino. So far I stopped at this interpretation of the recipe. Maybe someone will come in handy?

Where such confidence?? Personally, I regularly bake black bread using 3-4 recipes (including 2 recipes from the Panasonic recipe book and at least 2 recipes from the "Moulinex 5002" recipe book).

Please tell me Owl - rye bread in mode 9 (Borodinsky) Did you bake too? I have a question - what to do when, after the "first batch" (5 min) and "stop" (25 min), the bread maker goes into a pause (for adding the ingredients of Borodino bread) what about the rye? Do you need to start the oven immediately or let it stand? In the recipe book, rye bread is cooked at 4.10, and for program 9, the cooking time is 3.30 -3.45? Where 40 minutes were lost!

Hello, I'm a newbie with a bitter past. I bought a BORK 500 oven, but she did not raise the dough, after two months of war with Mr. Berengov Strait, I still won, I returned the money both for the oven and for the costs. I ran to another store and bought a Moulinex ow 5024 bagette. I've been trying different recipes for a week. Satisfied with the choice of power 1650WATT two tena. I got out the malt and tried to bake it as in the recipe book _not work. At first, the dough rose, but during baking it settled, the crumb is raw. Reading the recipes on the forum, I noticed that the bread is cooked for more than 3 hours, and in my program Borodinsky is 2 hours 25. What is the difference between peeled rye flour and wallpaper, I used peeled flour, because there is no other one. Malt is grain sprouted and dried so or am I wrong? ... Got malt from the Klinsky brewery or should the malt look like molasses? Help me to understand.

Hello, do not panic, everything will fall into place and I can already proudly write that I bake bread of different types and I am no longer afraid to even experiment - though I had to read a lot here and you try to read different topics - at first it will be difficult, but then the brain itself will discard unnecessary information))) Regarding Borodinsky, here's what I found out here - the function in the oven is an advertising trick, but you can also use it, just first start the dough mode (we have this 13 prog), then start the Borodinsky mode - thus you add extra time, by the way I bake rye in 1 or 2 mode. Regarding flour, I will not say, all this can be found through a search engine, but I did not bother, since we do not have wallpaper flour in our city, and also not malt and panifarin, I generally keep quiet about gluten)). On the advice of members of the forum, I use kvass malt. That is, I buy dry kvass (there is a mixture of malt and crackers), so I add it to bread. So, do not be afraid and you will succeed!

Peace be with you, bakers!
I want to ask a naive question: how to make rye-wheat bread more sour?
Just add vinegar or citric acid?

What is the difference between peeled rye flour and wallpaper, I used peeled flour, because I cannot find another one. Malt is grain sprouted and dried so or am I wrong? ... Got malt from the Klinsky brewery or should the malt look like molasses? Help me to understand.

Do not bother with flour, bake from what you have (the wallpaper is coarser and heavier, God forbid that this will work)
Malt is a dark powder, if you got it, bake on it, brew it with boiling water (see recipes), dry kvass is more accessible, but more aromatic on malt!
Malt is really sprouting. grain both dried and milled.

how to make rye-wheat bread more sour?
Just add vinegar or citric acid?

Apple cider vinegar is better, add sourdough, bake with whey and finally with kefir.

Peace be with you, bakers!
I want to ask a naive question: how to make rye-wheat bread more sour?
Just add vinegar or citric acid?

I add 1h. 1 liter of apple cider vinegar and 1/4 cup of strong tea leaves for bread weighing up to 1kg - a delicious bomb!

Good day!
The other day I baked Borodinsky in 6002 models under the "Borodinsky bread" program and with a recipe from the book for KhP. Didn't change anything, didn't add anything from baking powder. This is generally my first black bread in my life.

Ingredients in order of bookmark, product weight 1000 g

Malt 5 tbsp l.
Ground coriander 2.5 tsp
Dry yeast 2.5 tsp
Warm water 30C 420 ml
Wheat flour (took whole grain) 400 gr
Rye wallpaper flour 100 gr
Honey 1.5 tbsp. l.
Salt 1.5 tsp
Apple cider vinegar 2 tbsp l.
Vegetable oil 2 tbsp. l.

It turned out, in my opinion, more than decent for the first time ... and no problems))
And most importantly - very, very tasty !!! Nothing is sprinkled on top, because I just don't like it.

Ines, good evening!
Amazing result! Please tell me what kind of honey did you add? And where do you buy malt?
Thank you in advance!

Thank you for your kind words)) Borodinsky went with a bang, it even became embellish I put any honey that is. No honey - I put cane sugar. But honey tastes better, of course. It's not a problem to buy malt and other necessities in Moscow, for example, right here a lot of advices

Ines, my dream is to bake Borodino bread with honey flavor And today I found your recipe dated January 08 with available ingredients (with apple vinegar, coriander, etc., and not with agram and panifarin, which I don’t have yet). I only have the stove for 2 days, so I study recipes and the experience of others.
Does the bread according to this recipe taste very different from your recipe dated January 29 in the section Borodino bread for the lazy?
Thank you

Taste? No, the difference is not very noticeable. I think the main flavor comes from malt, coriander and honey. If there is more rye flour, the dough is very sticky and the bun is so ... very moist, the bread comes out dense. If there is more wheat, the bread comes out more fluffy and the bun is denser when kneaded. I made my first bread in a fully automatic mode and it came out great, only now I would add a couple of tablespoons of water to the recipe. Now I have already entered the taste - down with the shoulder blades, give shape, incisions for beauty ... well, I also want aesthetics for taste))

"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow"? (c) In automatic mode, everything will take 2 hours - you don't have to postpone it))

Agree! Moreover, I really want to! I can't buy malt yet! I ordered it already in the online store, delivery within 2 days. By the way, does the ABC of Taste sell malt? Maybe you know?

Malt can be replaced with dry kvass concentrate. Be sure to read the composition - there must be malt.