Help with choosing a bread machine

Regarding yeast and sourdoughs, it has already been written repeatedly, I think to write to the Baker so that he "nailed" it somewhere in the most prominent place of the forum

And about thermophilic yeast - well enough of these tantrums! Excuse me, fools write, but people believe! Not one (!!!) of the "specialists" who shout about the terrible "thermophilic" yeast has even a basic higher education in biology! I am not talking about medical education or specialization in microbiology and / or genetics and physiology! The combination of the words "thermophilic" and "yeast" is illiterate and is found only in these horror stories!

Try to heat the yeast to 70 ° C and then ferment the dough with it ... even 50 ° C is enough to kill all vegetative cells. A 45 ° C significantly inhibits the yeast.

Why different temperatures for optimal performance? Everything is very simple (turn on, sorry, brains). Yeast is a PURE culture. Starter culture is a COMPLEX of different cultures, including lactic acid bacteria, in which the optimum temperature is just around 35 ° C.

Our mothers-grandmothers-great-grandmothers baked using completely pure yeast. For example, culinary books of the late 19th and early 20th centuries mention brewer's yeast, which was a thick liquid. The industrial production of yeast has been going on since at least the middle of the nineteenth century - this became possible thanks to the work of Pasteur.

GOST for bread was developed not only for sourdough, but also for pure yeast (I don't know where you got this information that ONLY sourdoughs). It's just that almost all GOST bread was prepared with yeast doughs, and this is something intermediate between modern fast bread making in 3 hours and sourdough bread (not only yeast, but also lactic acid bacteria develop in dough in a few hours).

Nobody demands that you give up starter cultures - bake for health! After all, the quality of bread directly depends on the labor invested! Energy, attention and time are invested in leavens. Just don't use a totally wacky term. There is simple yeast. Best bakery pressed.

format_ct, thanks for the clarification. Of course, being a botanist by profession, I cannot agree with everything that you have written.
And forgive me for being boring, I need help choosing HP or something else to make the hard work in the kitchen easier when baking sourdough rye bread.
I myself don't seem to be able to cope quickly enough - there is a lot of information on your forum. Hope someone would share their experience. Although I try to study the topics as much as I can.

We met once on a bread maker. ru nerd with electronics and tried to talk.
Alas, the dialogue did not work out. I suggest you choose a bread maker from problem-free machines
bakery from Panasonic. Of the new ones for today - 3 models 2500, 2501, 2502.
They differ in the presence or absence of a dispenser, a stainless steel case and a price. You demand from us the name of a mythical model of an unknown company for baking magic sourdough rye bread according to an unknown recipe and in unknown quantities. Alas, under these conditions I cannot help you with anything else.
P.S. But no, I have only one adviser: You buy a bakery, you can be small. There is fresh bread every morning in the kitchen, there is no hard work, heat and flies. You don't need to read anything. And if suddenly you didn't like the taste of the bread, then whip the chief bread technologist and the whole business. Lapotaaaa.

sazalexter, thanks! I'm studying your footnotes! (I'm sorry I don't speak English - it's about Zojirushi) And: girl_red: I'm not throwing tantrums, well, we've been baking bread with sourdough for a year and we're not going to switch to another.

format_ct, I'm sorry I didn't understand that you are an electronics engineer.I just thought that those who are busy with sourdough do not need a long explanation of the problem. And this: 1-laboriousness of kneading rye dough because of its stickiness (my husband tried to mix this weekend and the idea to mechanize this process is his!).
2-stand the dough for up to 4-5 hours at 25-30 C, and so that the top crust does not dry out - otherwise a crust will form and the dough will not rise well.
The gas stove suits us and bakes our bread, although we have not acquired the forms that would completely suit us (we bake in what is ..).
I can already see that there is no simple solution. But I still want to find the best solution whenever possible. Even if it is only a dough mixer and an electric blanket to maintain a constant temperature.
Thanks for your patience and help.

format_ct, I'm sorry I didn't understand that you are an electronics engineer. I just thought that those who are busy with sourdough do not need a long explanation of the problem. And this: 1-laboriousness of kneading rye dough because of its stickiness (my husband tried to mix this weekend and the idea to mechanize this process is his!).
2-stand the dough for up to 4-5 hours at 25-30 C, and so that the top crust does not dry out - otherwise a crust will form and the dough will not rise well.
The gas stove suits us and bakes our bread, although we have not acquired the forms that would completely suit us (we bake in what is ..).
I can already see that there is no simple solution. But I still want to find the best solution whenever possible. Even if it is only a dough mixer and an electric blanket to maintain a constant temperature.
Thanks for your patience and help.

Oooops. The conversation turns into a practical plane. And I already wrote. Well, what I wrote, it is. I will not rewrite.
Despite the fact that I am an electronics engineer,
According to n1, I can quite imagine what the procedure for kneading rye dough is.
I fully understand your husband's reaction. I would not have undertaken to knead this with my hands.
My rye dough is kneaded by a bread maker, I transfer it into a mold with a silicone spatula, i.e.
I hardly touch the rye dough with my bare hands. Sometimes I can't help trying to help with my fingers, well, you have already listened to the sound design of the results, and more than once and not from me at all.
On n2 I have never withstood the rye dough for 4-5 hours. In my opinion, this is too much. During this time, it may well turn sour.
And we never discussed the topic of what is rye dough?
It is not very tasty without the addition of wheat flour. How much wheat do you add?

[Irina13]

Irina13 As another electronics engineer on the forum, I can advise you to use
for
p1) Food processor Bosch MUM 5 ...https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=136353.0 or dough mixer
n2) Proofing cabinet https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=149968.0
As an alternative Mini oven-bread machine DeLonghi EOB 2071 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=143917.0 but her proofing is set for a maximum of 2 hours per cycle,
and a dough kneading program for 30 minutes.

sazalexter, please explain - "her proofing is set for a maximum of 30 minutes per cycle" - ??
If there is a "proofing" program, can it be used several times in a row? Or is it (proofing) included in some program?

If there is a "proofing" program, can it be used several times in a row? Or is it (proofing) included in some program?

I'm sorry I was wrong
There is a program for proving the test SE11: RISE ON YEAST and it lasts 2 hours, you can start it again as long as you need until you get bored.
There is a SE10 program: MIXING and here it is just 30 minutes
Proofing is also included in almost all programs.

As an alternative Mini oven-bread machine DeLonghi EOB 2071

As an electronics engineer, in a nutshell, what prompted you to change the sane Panasonic for this funny device?
P.S. I followed the link, read, thought a lot, and did not understand what is the catch?

[format_ct]

format_ct I have two bread makers, as you understand, one is not enough, and besides, I need an oven. Old Dream15 went to retire to friends in the village and for Panasonic 255 I bought a new bucket that lasted 3 years (it began to leak in cold water, but still alive)

[format_ct]

format_ct I have two bread makers, as you understand, one is not enough, and besides, I need an oven. Old Dream15 went to retire to friends in the village and for Panasonic 255 I bought a new bucket that lasted 3 years (it began to leak in cold water, but still alive)

Thanks, I understand.
In my case, the SD-207 and its bucket have served me for almost 10 years. And is not going to leak. Am I really
did not give a damn about the recommendations of the company and after a single batch of dry-bottom, liquid-top
did everything exactly the opposite, that is, down water, milk, salt, eggs, sugar, butter, and above flour and yeast.
But here it is not provable, whether I am so smart, or whether the quality was higher before. Or maybe both?
True, when kneading, HP creaks and I'm not sure what is in the mixer unit. Does not affect the taste of bread.
And in general, everything is fine with ovens. One has microwaves, grilling, convection and relative mobility. In the other - everything, but without microwaves, but there is power and stationarity.
Interestingly, with several different approaches to the choice of kitchen appliances, we have a completely common goal - tasty and healthy bread.
And that is great.

Hello everyone!
Please tell me, all other things being equal, which is better - one mixer or two? what is the fundamental difference? it seems to me that 2 is more difficult to take out of ready-made bread or at the stage of raising, which I regularly did with my one.

[Lady]

Lady One mixer is better for bread up to 600g in flour, 2 mixers are needed more. Take Panasonic, you won't go wrong.

[Lady]

Lady One mixer is better for bread up to 600g in flour, 2 mixers are needed more. Take Panasonic, you won't go wrong.

Thanks for the quick response! You are so kind that I would venture to ask a trivial question about the choice of HP. It is not yet clear with the repair or purchase of a bucket, but the topic does not give rest. I really like my Kenwood VM450 (there were 2 previous models 250 and 350 before it), but if you want to buy a new one you want something different. At the same time, the design is important, the ability to bake small bread, the ability to bake rye bread - as I understand it, high temperature, manual mode, reliability are important.
Thank you.

[Lady]

Lady Panasonic is very reliable, there is a service, there are buckets, separate mixer units, mixers themselves.
Bakes beautifully small bread with 400g of flour. It is not programmable. Are you baking 100% rye bread or mixed bread?

If programming is important then Bork X800 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=141429.0
or Japanese woman, Zojirushi Breadmaker BB-CEC20 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=159825.0
You can also look at this DeLonghi EOB 2071 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=143917.0

If programming is important then Bork X800 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=141429.0
or Japanese woman, Zojirushi Breadmaker BB-CEC20 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=159825.0
You can also look at this DeLonghi EOB 2071 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=143917.0

Now I will definitely look, but what can you say about the Gorenje BM900ND brand? there, of course, not everything that I want, but beautiful))

Good little ordinary China OEM, smoke shatter quickly https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=177294.0

[https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=177294.0]

Good little ordinary China OEM, smoke shatter quicklyhttps://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=177294.0

Clearly (... I'll try to ask Bork, the rest is interesting, but a little expensive (.
Thank you!

Gentlemen, good day!
With all the awareness that this has probably already happened somewhere and, perhaps more than once, I still want to ask for advice ..

Our family is just ripe to buy this wonderful machine, and the main request is to bake exactly yeast-free bread and sourdough. I must say, newcomers in this business .. The question of choosing a stove is this - perhaps there are special models with such a sharpening? So that you do not have to buy a car for half a kingdom with a million functions simply because there is a necessary one among them, and not use the rest ..
Please tell me the model and the approximate cost, well, or at least with an adequate price / quality ratio with an eye on yeast-free and sourdough bread! Thank you!

[kateros]

kateros Firstly Yeast in a pack and yeast in air are the same !!!!!!!
Secondly, if you are lazy to read the page above For sourdough baking, only Zojirushi Breadmaker BB-CEC20 is suitable https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=159825.0 and with a stretch Bork X800 h 🔗

There is yeast in the leaven! Only they are "wild"! Not a pure culture grown in sterile conditions, but a large ensemble of everyone and everything.
Yeast-free bread is either bread on chemical leavening agents, or with mechanical opening or without opening at all, i.e.something like matzo.

Hello!
So I was puzzled with the choice of a bread machine. I thought I had already decided on the model (I wanted Redmond RBM-1904), but accidentally got to this site and leafed through several pages of this topic. Now I'm not so sure of my decision, but I didn't find any reviews about Redmond models, so now I'm in doubt which HP to take. I am still a complete layman in bakery and know little about all the necessary functions. Can you please tell me if it is worth paying attention to the Redmond HP?

I forgot to clarify:
Family for 3-4 people.
I would like to bake both regular and rye bread, bread with additives, the dough kneading function is also required

Redmond look here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=505.0

I read it, but there is very little about this brand.
Perhaps you shouldn't mess with her?

[sazalexter]

Thank you for your concern and polite answers!

Do not be offended

It's just that the same question appears on literally every page of the topic. And every time you have to explain the same thing. Indeed, literally on the previous page of the same topic, the issue of choosing a bread oven for ZAKVASK grown at home was discussed. At the same time, those who asked know very well what sourdough and kneading rye dough are.

We have more than once encountered a situation when the questioner and the respondents speak different languages. For example, what do you mean by "yeast-free bread"? What leaven are you going to bake with? How long does it take for your sourdough bread to rise?

It may well turn out that it is you who can bake in the "semi-manual" mode and you need any oven in which there are separate functions "kneading dough" and "baking" (and this is almost every first one sold today). If you need to completely automate the process, then sazalexter sent you to the correct address.
Or maybe you just need to bake wheat on dough, then any stove in the normal main program will do.

Good evening! today there was a byda the child dropped the bread maker (panasonic 255) and broke it! she is certainly many many years! but what a pity
what's new on the market now? what to replace? I bake small loaves, mostly wheat and mixed! and of course the dough!

As the owner of the Panasonic 255, the owner of the 255 Panasonic, I will recommend its modern counterpart 2501. The best has not yet been invented.

Thanks for the quick response! You are so kind that I would venture to ask a trivial question about the choice of HP. It is not yet clear with the repair or purchase of a bucket, but the topic does not give rest. I really like my Kenwood VM450 (there were 2 previous models 250 and 350 before it), but if you want to buy a new one you want something different. At the same time, design is important, the ability to bake small bread, the ability to bake rye bread - as I understand it, high temperature, manual mode, reliability are important.
Thank you.

I misunderstand anything. I still have and will remain Panasonic in the 3rd generation. Pok, bakes and I hope it will be baked. It suits me all. It is not clear what you want, something different? Judging by the number of devices you threw away, Kenwood did not admit his love for you and did not distinguish himself with reliability. I didn't bake rye bread. And do you really like it? The strength of your belief in this strange techno monster is amusing. How much money has Kenwood taken from you and how much more are you willing to donate to him?
And after all, until the last shekel, you will spit-resist-swear at the advice of sane people - look at Panasonic.

I misunderstand anything. I still have and will remain Panasonic in the 3rd generation. Pok, bakes and I hope it will be baked. It suits me all. It is not clear what you want, something different? Judging by the number of devices you discarded, Kenwood did not come out reliably. Rye bread does not bake. And do you really like it? The funny power of believing in a strange techno wonder. How much money has Kenwood taken from you and how much more are you willing to donate to him?

Dear format_ct!
With pleasure I will dispel your misunderstanding.
The first worked for 3-4 years, was taken to the dacha, retired).
The second one also worked for 3-4 years, was presented to relatives who continue to operate and are very satisfied.
But the third failed, only 2-3 years old and the mechanism in the bucket deteriorated.
HP market research has shown that Kenwood VM450 is my favorite.
I often bake rye, in different versions and in different ways.
I ordered a bucket.
Success to everyone, regardless of the available equipment!

As the owner of the Panasonic 255, the owner of the 255 Panasonic, I will recommend its modern counterpart 2501. The best has not yet been invented.

I would not like to inflate small conflicts between parties, but nevertheless, why not 2500? Do you really need a dispenser?

really not needed. But even I have used it several times for almost five years (it was not always possible to watch the batch, and the children wanted sweet rolls with raisins).

The beauty of this particular dispenser is that it works when and only when the corresponding program is set. That is, its presence does not interfere in any way. It is better to have a function and not use it than to bite your elbows later, which seems to have saved you, but now such a figurine would be needed.

Dear format_ct!
With pleasure I will dispel your misunderstanding.
The first worked for 3-4 years, was taken to the dacha, retired).
The second one also worked for 3-4 years, was presented to relatives who continue to operate and are very satisfied.
But the third failed, only 2-3 years old and the mechanism in the bucket deteriorated.
HP market research has shown that Kenwood VM450 is my favorite.
I often bake rye, in different versions and in different ways.
I ordered a bucket.
Success to everyone, regardless of the available equipment!

Thank you!
Sorry, I misunderstood you. The strange formulation of your question suggested the inadequacy of my answer.
You like Kenwood and you will love him. I respect your personal choice, but in this case there is no need to ask: which is better?
For you, only He, dear and beloved. He knows how to bake bread. Others too, some better. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.

Hello! At first I looked at the Orion bread maker as a gift to my mother, but then I came across such an Elbee Grace bread machine 24007 930 W
Someone can say something about her, someone like that Is there?

People, please help me decide on the choice of a bread machine as a gift for parents. I chose Panasonic SD-ZB 2502 BTS and Kenwood BM450. I wanted to take Kenwood right away, as it fits well into the kitchen by design, but I read a lot of negative reviews about its unreliability. Now I'm more inclined to Panasonic. Or advise something else in this price category!

my opinion does not change - only Kenwood!

Hello!
Please advise what to buy: Delfa DF-104X (477 UAH) or Delfa DBM-938 (299 UAH)? This will be our first HP, so no experience. I would be grateful for detailed answers. Thank you.

p.s. There is also Rotex RBX44-G (400 UAH) and Rotex RBX46-G (420 UAH), there is no information about them on the forum at all.

Greetings to all!
Does anyone have any experience with the Kambrook Bread Maker? Mom wanted a bread maker, in Mvideo they sang to her that this one is very good, albeit little known. Two dispensers (for yeast and various additives), two heating elements - above and below, manual mode, a body made of some correct material (not plastic = no smell), a bucket. Also from something reliable and not peeling, etc. There are practically no reviews on the Internet on this stove. For me, this alone is an indicator. But it happens that the "dark horse". Maybe someone knows about this oven?
In general, I initially caught fire on the bread maker because she will make the dough for pies herself, well, you can try bread (although we eat little bread). Here's where to look?

Kambrook ... A really dark horse, and an expensive one too. For me, the tried and tested Panasonic 2500. And the price tag is divine and the bread is excellent, and the dough is perfect ... Although, someone has to run in new items.

I am the owner of panasonic 256. I like everything and suit it.But the parents wanted a bread maker for themselves too. I see the cheapest Panasonic comes out 1200 UAH. I want to consider something from a cheaper range. UAH 900-1000. The main requirement is reliability, and so that the model is not problematic. For example, Mulinex had models on which the bread did not rise well. It was necessary to turn some kind of nut. After reading the forum, people praise, in addition to Panasonic, lg and kenwood. Can someone advise on a specific good model?

I would advise you to tighten up for another 100-200 UAH. and still buy a Panasonic 2500 (the next model 254/256). Even in the official Panasonic store on Podol in Kiev, this stove costs 1100 UAH.

Good day! I want to buy a bread maker as a gift. Apparently the most popular is Panasonic? If you take it, which model is better to buy then? 2500 or 2501? Since it is very difficult to understand the differences with a foray, but you need to buy today. From wishes as many different bread options as possible)

the 2501 has a dispenser for additives and a rye program (as well as a paddle for kneading rye).

1. A dispenser is not the most necessary thing, but sometimes it can come in handy (no need to watch the "green whistle" to throw raisins or seeds into the dough). I have used the dispenser a few times over the years, but I am not an indicator - I rarely bake with additives. If you throw in additives with all the ingredients at once, then there is a risk that the oven will simply grind these sweets, so you may not find the same dried cherries or raisins as a whole in the dough later.

2. The "rye" program is extremely necessary for someone, someone can do without it perfectly. Rye bread can be baked without it.

My opinion (I repeat it not for the first time): if there is an opportunity to spend a little more, then take the 2501 model. It is better to have some options and not use them, than to regret later that you have saved, and now there are no such necessary "chips".

I would advise you to tighten up for another 100-200 UAH. and still buy a Panasonic 2500 (the next model after 254/256). Even in the official Panasonic store on Podol in Kiev, this stove costs 1100 UAH.

Straining is not a problem. I have been taught to always consider the technique of different manufacturers. Therefore, Panasonic left in the possible options and wanted to hear something about other models. I've already read the forum. Something lg often breaks. So I understand that there are no alternatives. I will stop my gaze on this model. Small question. How do the 2500WXE models differ from the 2500WTS?

Small question. How do the 2500WXE models differ from the 2500WTS?

For Europe and CIS countries. More details in the profile thread.

Straining is not a problem. I have been taught to always consider the technique of different manufacturers. Therefore, Panasonic left in the possible options and wanted to hear something about other models. I've already read the forum. Something lg often breaks. So I understand that there are no alternatives. I will stop my gaze on this model. Small question. How do the 2500WXE models differ from the 2500WTS?

Recently, I myself faced such a problem, I looked through a bunch of sites, both official manufacturers, as well as online stores and reviews.
I chose different firms and models. I originally wanted Redmond RBM-1904, but as it turned out, it was discontinued for reasons unknown to me, and it was problematic to find it. Slightly upset, and began to search. I considered Mulinex, LG cut it off right away (I have a slight distrust of this company since the days of the first cell phones - for some reason they often broke down, and they did not suit in terms of functionality). My choice fell on Panasonic. At first it was 2501, but my husband wanted it in metal, for this he did not even regret overpaying and went broke for 2502. The oven is excellent. The difference between 2501 and 2502 is only in the body material and the 2502 has a separate yeast dispenser.

Hello!
Please help us choose a bread maker for our family.
I plan to bake different types of bread - white and rye, with seeds and nuts.
The function of making yeast dough is also very much needed - for pies and for pizza.
And I would like to make dough for dumplings, but this is not very necessary.
We have a family of 5 people, we love pies and bread. If I bake pies, I usually buy or make 1.5-2 kg of yeast dough at a time. Can a breadmaker knead so much at once?

We also have a multicooker, so no extra. functions other than dough and bread are not needed.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

[Hairpin]

Hello namesake !!! Well, not in the sense that you Hairpin, but in the sense that you too Katerina.

Indicate the region. If there is a mask, take Panasonic without a dispenser.

IMHO.

If I bake pies, I usually buy or make 1.5-2 kg of yeast dough at a time. Can a breadmaker knead so much at once?

Katya, the bread maker will not knead so much dough at one time. Here you need a kneader. And the best Panasonic bread maker, probably 2501 there is a dispenser for raisins, seeds, etc. The maximum loaf I had was 1.1 kg in weight.

Dyzpenzyr should be covered with hands !!!

Of my three bread makers, the second (Panasonic 253) and the third (Panasonic 2501) have dispensers, but I don't use them. I put the bread at night, and get up at three in the morning to manually slam the dispenser ... Etta, neither our metadas !!!