Help with choosing a bread machine

what to write, the sourdough dough rises longer, I did it by hand, if you stand for 4 hours, the bread turns out to be very dense, proofing is needed for at least 12 hours

Well then, a stove for 11,000 rubles, or read how they raise it with sourdough in 2-4 hours, basically, and with the attached photos in addition.

2-4 hours with the use of fungi, we do not need this. fungi pathogenic flora, you need to reduce fungal food, the fungus in the body is not good. you need to give rest to the immune system.
11000 is a bit too much, and then there is not 11 thousand, all 15 will come out there, because the voltage converter is also decent. in general, the toad strangles.

You can then try to fold the Hearth, made of second-hand bricks, it will not be expensive.
p.s.
True, I don’t remember something, most of the girls here have an additional fungus in the test.

understandably, called laugh after the word shovel. the hearth is in the form of an oven, although of course a real oven for baking bread is just a fairy tale.

2-4 hours with the use of fungi, we do not need this. fungi pathogenic flora, it is necessary to reduce fungal food, the fungus in the body is not good.

And what is in the leaven that makes the dough rise?

an automatic sourdough bread program (with a rise of about 9 hours) is available in the UNOLD hybrid multi-brew. It is possible that other models of this company also have the required program (for the German market).

it all depends on what kind of leaven you make. I am guided by bacteria-based starter culture, but often the fungal background overwhelms the bacterial one and then there is no sense in this leaven. on the bacterial leaven, the bread does not stale, does not grow moldy, but dries up, there will be mold on the fungus.
my grandfather was the head of the bakery under Stalin, then the famous Saratov rolls were baked in his production, which did not lose shape and did not stale.

an automatic sourdough bread program (with a rise of about 9 hours) is available in the UNOLD hybrid multi-brew. It is possible that other models of this company also have the required program (for the German market).

God save me, I have already considered the unold stove, but still you can't do without dancing

Can you write the name of these bacteria in Latin?

Can you write the name of these bacteria in Latin?

I repeat, it all depends on the type of sourdough, and there are a lot of bacteria varieties, for example, you can cite a hay stick, I won't say it in Latin, because this concept includes many strains.
the better bacteria? t5m that when baking they die, the mushrooms turn into spores, and spores enter the body and begin to develop.
I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth, this is my vision of the issue

So as not to drink, not smoke,
And he always gave flowers.
I gave my salary to the house,
I called my mother-in-law my mother.
I was indifferent to football
And in the company he is not bored.
And besides that he
AND WAS BEAUTIFUL AND SMART!
(from)

Well, if for all the sentences "the toad chokes" and "God forbid", then buy a kneader and continue to bake in manual mode.

slowly ripening on zozhirushi, left think a little

[on the bacterial leaven, the bread does not stale, does not grow moldy, but dries up, there will be mold on the fungus.]

it all depends on what kind of leaven you make. I am guided by bacteria-based leaven, but often the fungal background overwhelms the bacterial one and then there is no sense in this leaven. on the bacterial leaven, the bread does not stale, does not grow moldy, but dries up, there will be mold on the fungus.
my grandfather was the head of the bakery under Stalin, then the famous Saratov rolls were baked in his production, which did not lose shape and did not stale.

Have you tried to wrap the bacteria in a plastic bag?
The mold will immediately have fun, it will bloom, and the bread will not dry out.
The same cannot be said about bread, to which there is access to fresh air and then it slowly dries up with unlucky mushrooms in its composition, that is, with yeast and for some reason does not grow moldy.
By the way, kalachi were often kept like beads on a string and did not grow moldy in particular, and did not grow stale for a long time due to the rye sourdough in its composition.
p.s.
And it's useful to read about Saratov "kalachi" here -
... - "KALACH is the oldest variety of white wheat bread in Russian cuisine. Today the names of only two types of kalach are known - Moscow and Murom; only the first recipe has been preserved.
In the whole bread variety of Russian cuisine, which is based on steep fermentation of dough and the use of rye flour, kalach has long remained a mystery, because even the name of this product is controversial.
Some scholars suggest that the word "kalach" comes from the word "kolo" or "wheel", originally pronounced as "kolach" - the emphasis is on the adjective "round". Other linguists are closer to the truth: they believe that this name is borrowed from the Tatars, where the word "kalach" literally means "be hungry!", That is, we are talking about a very good appetite. Accordingly, both in meaning and in the historical aspect, it is more correct to associate the origin of this word with the adjective “appetizing”.
This bread product came to Russia from the Tatar cuisine, where it was prepared in the form of flat cakes from unleavened dough. Russian bakers have transformed the dough recipe by adding rye sourdough to the wheat dough. Therefore, kalach differs from other types of bread known in Russian cuisine.
In addition, it was Russian culinary experts who invented the shape of the cake, gave names to some parts of this product: the middle, main part was called a belly with a lip, and the roll also has a handle, or, more correctly, a bow (in the old days, they also spoke of a tangle). All parts have different flavor nuances. This is due to the fact that parts made in different shapes and with unequal volumes, being in the oven for the same time, are not baked in the same way.
A characteristic feature of the dough for rolls is that it does not stale for a long time. In the 19th century, they were transported frozen from Moscow to Paris. There they were placed in hot towels, in which the rolls were thawed: the products were obtained as freshly baked, even 1-2 months after preparation.
There are many Russian proverbs about kalach, which testifies to the popularity of this pastry. It has always symbolized wealth and was used in emblems to indicate wealth. In Russia they said: "From a kalachik - a white face", "Kyakhtinsky tea, Moscow kalach - this is how a rich man has an afternoon snack", "It is not a hand for a peasant son - there are rolls", "Where you climb with a pork snout and into a kalachny row."
Initially, the kalachs began to bake in Murom, this suggests that close contact was established between Murom residents and Tatar bakers. So the production of rolls was founded in Murom, which testified to the prestige of the city in trade during the Middle Ages. However, gradually the economic and political system of Vladimir-Suzdal Rus fell into decay and Moscow became the leader in the production of rolls, from where they learned about them throughout the country. Even the proverb was folded: "In Moscow, the rolls are hot like fire." In the capital, there was a great demand for rolls, they began to be produced for export.
And today the kalach is still called an edible souvenir of Moscow. Bakers keep the recipe for its preparation unchanged, because this product has become traditional in Russian cuisine. The main advantage of the rolls is not in the form, but in the excellent taste. Therefore, attempts by various organizations to give such a name to other products that belong to bakery products of a different type are condemned. For example, on sale you can find bread in the form of a thick and large bagel, which is called "Saratov kalach"."...
_
Is this not what we are talking about?

Have you tried to wrap the bacteria in a plastic bag?
The mold will immediately have fun, it will bloom, and the bread will not dry out.

and if you also sprinkle it with mold on top, then such a green furry will be faster and cooler

The same cannot be said about bread, to which there is access to fresh air and then it slowly dries up with unlucky mushrooms in its composition, that is, with yeast and for some reason does not grow moldy.

it is clear why, there is no moisture, the wrong environment, and you need to understand that fungi, bacteria, viruses surround us, and if we make a leaven, then they are all present in it, and for which culture there will be a favorable environment, then it grows actively, therefore often it happens that fungi, and they are very unpretentious, begin to quickly spread and suppress the bacterial environment, which is why the users of this forum complain that their leaven has stopped working, since the leaven has moved into a different environment.

By the way, kalachi were often kept like beads on a string and did not grow moldy in particular, and did not grow stale for a long time due to the rye sourdough in its composition.

surely because of this they did not grow stale, because the leaven is rye, and what is its composition?

p.s.
And it is useful to read about Saratov "kalachs" here - ....
_
Is this not what we are talking about?

some kind of customized article, I don't know who needs this misinformation, but I can say that the Saratov roll is a round big bread in the form of a wide cylinder, very pleasant to the taste, and over time does not stale for a long time, and does not become moldy, only dries up. its other property is that you can sit on it and when you get up it takes its shape again, a relative told me how in Soviet times it was a kind of brand, and he took these rolls with him and often paid them or gave them bribes at the box office to get a ticket or something else, because he often traveled across the vast expanses of the USSR. but in our time, for some reason, the recipe for making it has been lost, although I doubt it, it's just that there is probably somewhere in the libraries, you need to look. And they replaced them with yeast bread, since it is easier, faster and a predictable production result, even yeast rolls began to be made, but the taste and properties are no longer the same. And only now people began to understand that yeast, that is, fungi, in addition to business benefits, carry a parasitic component that affects health. It is clear even to a schoolchild that mushrooms, with their active growth, consume everything in their path, of course, they love glucose, but they also consume many useful substances, which in the end do not reach the cell, therefore a person suffers from numerous diseases, not to mention metabolic products ... Of course, they cannot be completely denied, for certain they also have some kind of merit in digestion, supplying the body with some microelements, but when fungi suppress human microflora, and we ourselves contribute to this by consuming yeast in large quantities, then immunity is not able to repel the onslaught of fungi and the fungus spreads all over the body, and then such a person suffers from incomprehensible diseases such as diabetes, dermatitis and eczema, psoriasis, rheumatism, etc. the most important thing is that midicine cannot give an answer to the cause of these diseases, or because of ignorance or it is simply beneficial for doctors that we get sick ... Of course, the problem of the disease is not only in the amount of consumption of the fungus, but in the weakening of immunity, and it weakens when a person has mental problems, first of all, sin affects the soul and a person loses strength and immunity weakens downward. All this is very comparable to a war.

[orthodox]

Respected, orthodox, let's move closer to the topic of choosing HP, and not yeast, there is a separate topic for yeast ... and more .. whatever you bake bread on, it will EVERYTHINGY become moldy if it is not stored correctly and the bread lies / is not eaten for a long time !

PySy ... and I'm going to eat the expired curd .. let the excess bacteria settle in me ... I don't care about them .. even more so, considering the environment in which we now live ...

[orthodox]

Respected, orthodox, let's move closer to the topic of choosing HP, not yeast, there is a separate topic for yeast ...

I agree, but this also affects the choice, so I think you can sometimes

and further..No matter what you bake the bread on, it will STILL moldy, if it is not stored correctly and the bread lies / is not eaten for a long time!

maybe it won't get moldy, but the point is not only this, the main thing is health

PySy ... and I'm going to eat the expired curd .. let the excess bacteria settle in me ... I don't care about them .. all the more, considering the environment in which we now live ...

you shouldn't be so thoughtless about your health, you can get stuck in the toilet for a long time

Greetings people. I ask for your help, I wanted to buy a bread maker, but I saw how many of them are being sold now and could not choose. Please help with the choice if you are interested in a bread maker of the price category up to 6000 thousand, write 2-3 options at once, I beg you. Thank you very much in advance!

[Give three options right away]

Greetings people. I ask for your help, I wanted to buy a bread maker, but I saw how many are on sale now and could not choose. Please help with the choice if you are interested in a bread maker of a price category up to 6000 thousand, write 2-3 options at once, I beg you. Thank you very much in advance!

here, I just want a bread maker. Here, too lazy to do the minimum work, read the forum. Give three options right away, and then I will choose from them!

You know, for a good advice, you need to know at least something about the conditions, well, except for the price limit (which, by the way, fits almost ALL bread machines, and on the Russian market there are almost one and a half hundred models of them).
For example,
> where are you from (different offers in different regions and different opportunities to purchase, for example, via the Internet or only in a regular store),
> how many people are in the family and how much bread do you eat (size of a loaf),
> love variety and exoticism or prefer simple bread (some programs and oven features),
> is there an experimental streak, etc.
> On which of what they saw, the eyes stopped (as I say, the best choice is to touch several stoves "in real life" and take what "sticks to your hands").

Spend at least some time, read our forum, at least a few pages of this topic. Decide on the selection parameters. Then they can help you.

[Give three options right away]

here, I just want a bread maker. Here, too lazy to do the minimum work, read the forum. Give three options right away, and then I will choose from them!

You know, for a good advice, you need to know at least something about the conditions, well, except for the price limit (which, by the way, fits almost ALL bread machines, and on the Russian market there are almost one and a half hundred models of them).
For example,
> where are you from (different offers in different regions and different opportunities to purchase, for example, via the Internet or only in a regular store),
> how many people are in the family and how much bread do you eat (size of a loaf),
> love variety and exoticism or prefer simple bread (some programs and oven features),
> is there an experimental streak, etc.
> On which of what they saw, the eyes stopped (as I say, the best choice is to touch several stoves "in real life" and take what "sticks to your hands").

Spend at least some time, read our forum, at least a few pages of this topic. Decide on the selection parameters. Then they can help you.

Himself from Ulyanovsk
On weekdays, my wife and I eat little bread, very little ... But on weekends, when the youngest comes from school, and the older one comes with his wife, it comes out decently.
There is an experimental streak.

I looked at the stoves on the Internet, I can’t decide how many of them are my eyes. I just looked at one according to the reviews, they write badly baking the crust, looked after the second one according to the reviews, it gets warm very much, so I haven't decided ...

I (like many others) have already been accused of being a fearsome secret agent of Panasonic. But we speak on the basis of our own experience (many came to Panasonic after other stoves, moreover, quite well-known brands).

Within the limits of your amount at the prices of online stores, the best choice is precisely Panasonic. Optimal - model 2501.

one.These stoves are one of the most reliable (long-term operation without breakdowns - three years or more, the presence, albeit expensive, but official service) and they have fully worked out modes.
2. Panasonic is one of the quietest stoves in operation.
3. The 2501 has a dispenser for additives and a "rye" mode - it's better not to use any option than to ever regret not having it. The "higher" model 2502, in addition to the significantly higher price, has a yeast dispenser that 99% of practicing bakers do NOT use.

Himself from Ulyanovsk
On weekdays, my wife and I eat little bread, very little ... But on weekends, when the youngest comes from school, and the older one comes with his wife, it comes out decently.
There is an experimental streak.

I looked at the stoves on the Internet, I can’t decide how many of them are my eyes. I just looked at one according to the reviews, they write badly baking the crust, looked after the second one according to the reviews, it gets warm very much, so I haven't decided ...

Of the convenient ovens, these are Panasonic 2500, 2501 - Panasonic is not programmable, other models have this opportunity; Kenwood 450; Brand 3801 and Bork x800, but the latter costs 10,000 rubles.

Thank you all very much, I will dwell on the Panasonic 2501 model then. I will take everything on Monday. Thanks a lot, everyone

Help me choose a bread maker.
Doubt between Kenwood BM450 and Moulinex OW6002. I like the baguette holder in the Mulenex, but the reviews are not very rosy about the breakdowns.
I will use the bread maker to prepare various types of bread, loaves. Of course, I would like to make baguettes in it (or is it better to bake baguettes in the oven?), I'm also going to prepare dough for pizza, dumplings, etc. in it.

Help me choose a bread maker.
Doubt between Kenwood BM450 and Moulinex OW6002. I like the baguette holder in the Mulenex, but the reviews are not very rosy about the breakdowns.
I will use the bread maker to prepare various types of bread, loaves. Of course, I would like to make baguettes in it (or is it better to bake baguettes in the oven?), I'm also going to prepare dough for pizza, dumplings, etc. in it.

What kind of baguettes are there? 15 cm buns! And fuss .... I have a Kenwood 450, but now I would only take Panasonic. And if you are going to bake in the oven, it doesn't matter which bread maker will knead the dough.

What kind of baguettes are there? 15 cm buns! And fuss .... I have a Kenwood 450, but now I would only take Panasonic. And if you are going to bake in the oven, it doesn't matter which bread maker will knead the dough.

Well, I want the bread to be baked by the stove itself. But loaves and baguettes are another matter. And what kind of Panasonic?

Help me choose a bread maker.
Doubt between Kenwood BM450 and Moulinex OW6002. I like the baguette holder in the Mulenex, but the reviews are not very rosy about the breakdowns.
I will use the bread maker to prepare various types of bread, loaves. Of course, I would like to make baguettes in it (or is it better to bake baguettes in the oven?), I'm also going to prepare dough for pizza, dumplings, etc. in it.

Of these two, there is nothing to compare.
There is only 450 and it bakes rye very conveniently, as it is programmable.
The freebie really will not work with a full "car", you have to learn, but baking bread in a bread machine is much more convenient.
The Young Fighter course from Admin is here on the website, in the beginners section.
If you are interested in Panasonic, then 2501 models are optimal and a timer for it for 200 rubles instead of a Tambourine, this is for reminders and dances.


Bread Kneading and Baking Basics

UNDERSTANDING BREAD IN HOMEMADE BREAD

Well, I want the bread to be baked by the stove itself. But loaves and baguettes are another matter. And what kind of Panasonic?

Yes, anyone! The main thing is to bake rye too! You will quickly play enough with moulinex in baguettes - you will get tired of pulling out, rolling out every time ... and in the end you get 4 buns.

Yes, we bake everything at Panasonic! even baguettes! Buy a baguette holder separately, put it on a stand in a bread maker and bake baguettes. And shaped bread with a brick in the forms L7, L11. Cupcakes in L11, in L12.Round cakes in round shapes and much more.

Yes, we bake everything at Panasonic! even baguettes! Buy a baguette holder separately, put it on a stand in a bread maker and bake baguettes. And shaped bread with a brick in the forms L7, L11. Cupcakes in L11, in L12. Round cakes in round shapes and much more.

and these forms can be inserted into any bakery (of course, provided that the dimensions are correct?)
what kind of stand do you mean?

[if enters]

and these forms can be inserted into any bakery (of course, provided that the dimensions are correct?)
what kind of stand do you mean?

In any, if enters and it is desirable not to hang on the shadow (heater).
Stand, if necessary, any metal in the desired size.

No, molds do not easily fit into every bread maker. Read reports on baking in different bread makers in different forms in the topic "Non-standard forms in Panasonic", there are many photo reports.

Is it possible to use non-standard forms in Kenwoods?

Is it possible to use non-standard forms in Kenwoods?

That's it ---- >>> Non-standard forms at Panasonic
Read, you will find there for different options.
Forms can be used with any HP, as long as it is included in it.
Read and go for it!
Well, or measure the inner chamber in different HP and compare it with the known ones.

Yes, anyone! The main thing is to bake rye too! You will quickly play enough with moulinex in baguettes - you will get tired of pulling out, rolling out every time ... and in the end you get 4 buns.

I will argue.
1. A rye oven can be used in absolutely any HP. Personally, I'm already in 3 different hells - it's great. The main thing is to get used to it.
2. My HP does not have a baguette holder, but it fits in size, so I took a baguette holder from my sister (she just does not use it) and bake baguettes twice a week. It turns out that the shape of the bread matters, baguettes are much more pleasant to eat than bread, but made according to the same recipe. But this has already been written about.
Therefore, I would advise with a rectangular frame (for two mixers) and preferably programmable (while it does not have to be expensive: the parents have only 3.5, but with the Home program - that is, with the choice of batch, etc.).

[Custard rye bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives.]

I will argue.
1. You can bake a rye ...

Here you can find the list for rye and the degree of convenience ---- >>> Custard rye bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives.

Hello!
In front of you is another "teapot" that will tearfully ask the entire bakery community for help.
I've been trying to choose a bread maker for a week. Standard home appliance matching methods did not work. A search by parameters on the Yandex market with the subsequent study of public opinion there also did not give the expected results. It was not even possible to outline the circle of preferences. I have been on this site for 4 days and it seems that the situation has become even more complicated
People are kind and knowledgeable! Help me choose a unit according to the following parameters:
-Basically, it is planned to bake bread rye or rye-wheat (less often wheat) without yeast or in sourdough, also without using yeast. This is the main reason why it was difficult to understand on Yandex what is capable of doing this.
- I'm very interested in the dough kneading mode (if it's not needed, please dissuade) - For dumplings, dumplings, baking before the oven.
- family composition - 3 people (we are waiting for the fourth, but he is unlikely to affect the bread consumption in the family in the coming years).
- I was also interested in the cake baking mode.
-I need, it seems to me, the one where you can conjure with the program (programmable, is it called?) - this, as I already understood here, logically follows from the need number 1 in my list))).
Budget: within 6 rubles. Ideally, it's cheaper, so that it's not too bad when it breaks right away (almost everything breaks down for me) But in general I'm not very greedy)))
By brand preferences: I would like a hundred semi-brand type. There is an impression that the more TM is promoted, the more a model is sold, the more they begin to save on quality over time.At home, basically, something like Zelmer, Burning, etc. from my t. Sp. semi-brands. If the situation is different with bread makers, please dissuade.
Thanks in advance to all who are not indifferent!

Hello!
In front of you is another "teapot" that will tearfully ask the entire baking community for help.
I've been trying to choose a bread maker for a week. .....

Now we will advise! Where will you come from?

Of the convenient and proven for your task, and not expensive - Brand 3801 and slightly less convenient for leavening varieties of Kenwood 450 bread.

Hello,

sorry to bother you, but I need some advice. I read a lot of messages here, but I still find it difficult to choose.

I don't care about noise or price.

What do you recommend to buy:

Kenwood 450 or Panasonic 2502?

Thank you in advance.

Hello,

sorry to bother you, but I need some advice. I read a lot of messages here, but I still find it difficult to choose.

I don't care about noise or price.

What do you recommend to buy:

Kenwood 450 or Panasonic 2502?

Thank you in advance.

what you like more externally - then buy!

Kenwood 450 or Panasonic 2502?

Panasonic.

Now we will advise! Where will you come from?

Of the convenient and proven for your task, and not expensive - Brand 3801 and slightly less convenient for leavening varieties of Kenwood 450 bread.

Vanya28, thanks for the answer!
Russia, Oryol. Already looked at the market, we have Brand. I looked at 15 modes according to the instructions, but it is not clear on which of them all the same to bake rye and rye-wheat bread?
I read Temka on Brand (while in passing), like my bread maker))) I'll take it, I'll probably wait for a new model However, when it comes out, this is, as I understand it, a big secret

Vanya28, thanks for the answer!
Russia, Oryol. Already looked at the market, we have Brand. I looked at 15 modes according to the instructions, but it is not clear on which of them all the same to bake rye and rye-wheat bread?
I read Temka on Brand (while in passing), like my bread maker))) I'll take it, I'll probably wait for a new model However, when it comes out, this is, as I understand it, a big secret

Learn how to bake different types of bread in it.
Everything in it is normal, and in the new model, which they will give birth to for a long time, there will be no fundamentally new functions and new mechanical changes. So, if you have decided, then buy and do not wait.
Write if anything.
Go to the rye theme, the red line below.

In that very new model, I was interested in the presence (in the future, of course) of a mold for cakes. Don't know if you can buy them separately and place them in the old model? This design allows?

In that very new model, I was interested in the presence (in the future, of course) of a mold for cakes. Don't know if you can buy them separately and place them in the old model? This design allows?

Relax!

Instead of a regular bucket, put any form and bake.
Yes, and a real cake is made from a very heavy dough, which the bread maker will not knead, well, if you don't prepare a parody of cake.

Vanya28, thanks for the answer! All questions were resolved, if any more arise, I will ask Brand in the topic.
And as for the cakes, it was only supposed to bake them. The dough can actually only be kneaded by hand. I knead a 12-liter pan of dough for about three hours))) For some reason, they always burn in my oven (((

Kenwood 450 or Panasonic 2502

Even the sellers in the same store give different advice ...

Well, for example, I was told that bread in Panasonic turns out like a loaf, not bread, but in Kenwood it is right.

Also in Kenwood, you can customize 5 of your programs.

I’m wondering if you can just make dough in Kenwood? It seems like you can cook puff in Panasonic.

Thank you in advance.

... I’m wondering if you can just make dough in Kenwood? It seems like you can cook puff in Panasonic.
Thank you in advance.

Both models have a dough kneading mode and more than one.

Read the native instructions here on the site.
They bake any bread and rolls.
Try to choose the right one!
Hee Hee !!!

[like a loaf, not bread]

Even the sellers in the same store give different advice ...

Well, for example, I was told that bread in Panasonic turns out like a loaf, not bread, and in Kenwood as it should.

Also in Kenwood, you can customize 5 of your programs.

I’m wondering if you can just make dough in Kenwood? It seems like you can cook puff in Panasonic.

Thank you in advance.

And what do they mean by "loaf, not bread"?

And what do they mean by "loaf, not bread"?

Well, it seems, in Panasonic, even when you bake pure bread, it tastes like a roll. and the crust is never firm.
I sort of read that mixing shakes causes a problem in Kenwood? Like, due to the fact that Panasonic has a separate compartment for tremors, there are no problems with kneading, but in Kenwood there is.

And did someone say that bread tastes better in Panasonic?

I know I tortured you, but somehow I hope to buy a bread maker for several years of ministry. so that I'm afraid to make a mistake in my choice.

Thank you.

Well, it seems, in Panasonic, even when you bake pure bread, it tastes like a roll. and the crust is never firm.
I sort of read that mixing shakes causes a problem in Kenwood? Like, due to the fact that Panasonic has a separate compartment for tremors, there are no problems with kneading, but in Kenwood there is.
And did someone say that bread tastes better in Panasonic?
I know I tortured you, but somehow I hope to buy a bread maker for several years of ministry. so that I'm afraid to make a mistake in my choice.
Thank you.

What a nice collection of nonsense and myths.
How much money do you plan to spend on a bread maker and accessories?
And where do you live and will you buy?