Nikusya
Straight like a detective! I'm hanging around here, reading. I am morally ripening and waiting for the heat!
lappl1
Nikusya, enough to mature! Create heat in a separate confined space and you will be happy with the leaven!
Nikusya
Lyudochka, the beef broth is already being cooked, good fat one! Smells !!!! Dumpers !!! In the apartment, if you do not include air conditioning, somewhere between 27-28 degrees. I'll try.
lappl1
Quote: Nikusya
somewhere 27-28 degrees.
Nikusya, not enough! Need more! Put it in the sun.
Nikusya
Yeah, okay, I'll put it on Saturday morning.
VGorn
lappl1, Luda, as I read about the katyk, I realized that I took the wrong product. Hopefully it'll be in the fridge by Sunday. Previously, the oven still won't work. If not, I will try again. I have never put on any leaven. This is my first experience.
Albina
Victoria, all the same, I would not throw it away, but would use a little less yeast and knead the dough into bread, etc.
I also had an inactive starter culture that was not high enough temperature. I still have it in the cold after I started it. I fed him twice.
lappl1
VGorn, Vika, have you seen my recipe for cakes, which I posted at the insistence of Lena-Kubanochka? If not, you can take a look. I wrote there how I prepare katyk just for sourdough, not consumption. Here's a quote from the recipe:
Preparing a sourdough katyk.
In order for the leaven to become strong, it is not enough to take any fermented milk product. The real sourdough for Asian flatbread is made on katyk. Katyk is a fermented milk product obtained by fermenting one stripped off to 2/3 of the volume of milk (not baked!). In the absence of a real katyk for fermentation, I added old homemade yogurt and loose sour cream in equal proportions (1 tsp) to the evaporated milk (100 ml). Experts recommend keeping fermented milk at a temperature of 28 - 30 * C for 3 days to obtain an authentic product. Since I needed katyk not for consumption, but for sourdough, I cooked it for 5 days[/ size].
And here is the recipe for cakes:

Asian cakes with sourdough on meat broth, onions and katyk (lappl1)

Sourdough in meat broth for Asian tortillas (master class)
VGorn
lappl1, Luda, these cakes of yours made me want to make sourdough. Well ... that means I will use the previous leaven in bread and start making katyk. You have very tempting cakes!
lappl1
Victoria, most importantly, the temperature regime is also correct for the katyk. Good luck to you!
Albina
Quote: Albina
I still have it in the cold after I started it. I fed him twice.
Yesterday I baked bread from my sourdough for 300 g of flour, 100 g of sourdough. I thought it would be a small loaf. And when I went to take it out of the HP, I was surprised. Flush with the top of the mold.
Sourdough in meat broth for Asian tortillas (master class)
To the left of the bread is the sourdough that I started from the beginning of this recipe.
lappl1
Albinochka, this is a handsome man! Super! Thanks for the photo.
Yes, this leaven, in my opinion, is not killable. I once "forgot" it for a month and a half because of the railway. Nothing happened to her - I fed her, and she is like new.
Albina
Quote: lappl1
Yes, this leaven, in my opinion, is not killable.
So I thought: to finish it urgently or leave it on vacation. Will it be lost? Yesterday I fed after taking some bread. And I think: how long-playing and if I feed every time after I took it. She will immortal endless
lappl1
Quote: Albina
So I thought: to finish it urgently or leave it for the duration of the vacation.
Albina, nothing will happen to her! Feed before the vacation, she will wait for you.
Albina
Ludmila, so I will. I started this starter a couple of times, but it turned out to be a long-lasting product. I didn’t work out the cakes. And I baked breads.
lappl1
Albina, now the cakes will turn out. The leaven became strong.
Albina
Lyudmilochka, I added yeast. If only with sourdough, then I would have to wait all day. And in them I was not at all sure that I would get anything worthwhile. Even with yeast I thought that the next morning I would have to put another bread. Therefore, at midnight, as soon as the program was over, I went to take out the bread. And he I thought I’d pull out a small loaf.
lappl1
Quote: Albina
I added yeast
Ah, everything is clear! In general, this leaven can be strongly activated by top dressing. And pretty fast. Peki, Albinochka, good health!
Albina
I just cut some bread. I was afraid that there would be sourness. All
lappl1
Albinochka, uryayayayayayayayay! Congratulations !
Nikusya
Albina, and bread does not smell like pies with meat?
Albina
Ilona, no. Bread is like bread It is clear that the sourdough contained onions and meat broth. But this has already fermented everything for a long time. After all, I put it somewhere in March (if not in February; I don't want to look for Temko). And since that time she lives in the cold
Nikusya
And really not killed! Well I said that there is something from Stepin King in her! ... And the bread turned out to be good, very high!
VGorn
Good day! And tell me, knowledgeable people, how to feed her, please. I put it 1.5 weeks ago. I wrote here in the topic that it didn't really work out that much. So it is in my refrigerator. And I don’t know what to do with her further ... The oven in the oven is now unrealistic, we have +39 in the shade outside, and in the sun ... I don’t have so many divisions on the thermometer. The column rested at 50 and higher, and how much more it would have passed is not known. At least bake in a bread maker. Tell me how? And about feeding too.
lappl1
Quote: VGorn
how to feed her,
Victoria, I feed exactly as written in the recipe on the 1st page.
Albina
Victoria, and what do you want to bake: cakes or bread? If the bread is in HP, I can tell you how I baked.
I took 100 g of this sourdough straight from the cold. I immediately measured 200 g of water and 300 g of flour. But I did it like a dough. Whole starter culture + 0.5 tsp. yeast, added 2 tbsp. l. sugar, 1 tsp. salt, about half the flour and half the water. Kneading in HP minutes 5-8. Left to ferment for 1-1.5 hours. Then I added the remaining flour and water, butter, a butter slice (15 grams), 1 tbsp. L. (maybe a little more) grows. oil and switched on BASIC MODE. In 4h 10m. the bread was ready.
And about 100 ml of water was added to the remaining sourdough and 100 g of flour was mixed and left until morning. But it's not hot here. And since you have such a roast, then after 2-3 hours the fed sourdough must be hidden in the cold
VGorn
So simple! Thank youAlbina,. When I'm going to do it ... It's absolutely impossible to do anything with this heat. And we don't live in the south!
Lile4ka
kubanochkaThanks a lot for the recipe!
I did it the first time, everyone who was treated asked for a recipe!
I got such cakes:
Sourdough in meat broth for Asian tortillas (master class)
The topic is of course old, but suddenly someone will come in handy. Somewhere in the topic there was a problem, the middle swelled, I also swelled on the first 3 cakes, the following blanks had time to stand longer, and besides, I turned on convection in the oven, I don't know exactly what helped, whether the proofing was convection or all together, but the problem left.
lappl1
Lile4ka, you have excellent cakes!
Assol
Is it possible to ferment with sour kumis or shubat?
Assol
I have a fourth attempt. Nothing works. Stands tight. Doesn't rise. What am I doing wrong?
Lile4ka
Hello! You write in detail how you did it and from what, perhaps then it will be clear what you did wrong.
Assol
Good. I set the candles to cook fat horse meat. Truth to salted yu. Add a medium onion to the warm Fatty broth. Homemade sour katyk and two glasses of premium flour. Everything is strictly according to the recipe.Grind everything together in a blender. I put a one-liter in the jar. And in the heating pad of boots. It costs 15 hours. Several large holes appeared. But there is no rise.
Assol
Nikitosik
Assol,
Quote: Assol
two glasses of premium flour.
For the sourdough, it is best to take flour, second grade or at least the first. And don't worry, everything will work out! just be patient. Look, the broth is the freshest, the katyk too, the flour is the highest grade ..., but they need to make friends and then "piss" and "ferment" with fun!
Assol
Thanks for the support. I myself guessed that the problem was the flour.
Assol
What. I'll have to try again
Olekma
Thank you very much for the recipe, I looked for a long time, but I didn't want to mess with the leaven, and yesterday I finally put this leaven on chicken broth and yogurt, today I baked cakes, the smell was in Vkusnotishcha's apartment!
Assol
Maybe the topic is outdated, but not for me. Finally, the leaven has grown. Now proving. I'll bake in an hour. Indeed, flour must be taken at least of the first grade. Feed with Boiled Water !!!
But, I made the leaven using a different technology (lengthened). Here's the detail on this site: content: //com.sec.android.app.sbrowser/readinglist/0616020415.mhtml
It turns out that the main feature here is a sour ol point. If it contains lactic acid streptococci and Bulgarian bacillus (which actually make up good katyk and yogurt) and boiled water with at least 1 grade flour, then the sourdough will definitely work! Thanks to ALL!
lappl1
Assol, countrywoman, thank you very much for the link and very valuable advice. Please share your best practices. Or maybe we'll see you sometime to exchange experiences. For me, this topic is now more relevant than ever.
Something my link did not open. Maybe you can copy the text and bring us here? It would be great! Thank you in advance !
Albina
Asel, something the link does not open
Assol
Hello. I saw your messages only today.
Further long text:
In search of the original Uzbek flatbread. Part 1. Sourdough

See also:

Part 2. Making dough and baking tortillas





What has become "wrong" in the Uzbek cake? Or: why is the Uzbek flatbread already "not the same"? The answer, in general, is obvious - yeast. Regular bakery yeast, or even "fast" yeast. They work in the dough, as they should, giving the bread airiness, and the pulp - the characteristic porosity. They are certainly easy to use and very affordable. In the bread familiar to many of us, they may be good and almost irreplaceable. But the originality of the Uzbek flatbread - its unique taste and aroma, the ability to stay fresh for quite a long time - the yeast practically brought to naught. More precisely, they completely brought it to naught, because even the tandoor production of cakes does not make them what they once were.

In Tashkent, unsuccessfully trying to find the original Uzbek flatbread (a paradox, right?), I asked the baker what kind of strange term is used in the flatbread recipe - "trembling"? So this, he replies, is "khamirturush" - that is, "yeast". And he thought about it himself. Over the fact, probably, why instead of "khamirturush" say "trembling" if it's the same thing? Or maybe over the fact that "khamirturush" is "yeast", but not quite? "Hamirturush" both as a term and as a means for raising the dough for flat cakes has existed since ancient times, long before the appearance of thermophilic and, moreover, fast yeast.

In the Russian language there is an alternative to "yeast" - "leaven". She was not found in Uzbek - at least in the translation into Russian. However, because of this "khamirturush" did not cease to be "khamirturush", just in case it was adjacent to "trembling". There was nothing left - to find "khamirturush", more precisely - its recipe. More precisely, one of the recipes. What for?

In the question: what is primary in the Uzbek flat cake - sourdough or tandoor - there is obviously as much uncertainty as in the question of chicken and eggs. However, the sourdough is now quite often replaced by thermophilic yeast, and the cake in the tandoor is quite successful. But to taste, as already mentioned, it is not a cake.

It is more difficult to replace the tandoor with something else, although there are ovens that calmly gain tandoor temperatures. Those who are not quite in the subject, believing that tandoor is not only temperatures, but also "smoke", I will disappoint: in a tandoor prepared for baking bread, there is not only a smoke, but also its smell. The advantage aspect remains. In a tandoor, you can simultaneously bake many cakes of different shapes and sizes, which even the most advanced oven cannot cope with. And the tandoor also provides speed, which is important for baking bread.

Nevertheless, the cake can be baked in the oven if there is no tandoor. On sourdough, this will definitely be a cake, minus the baking method. In the presence of sourdough and tandoor, even this minus will not remain, it is checked. But I'm lazy, like some of you. For fifteen years I am going to build a tandoor at the dacha - I have not. Straining my memory to get from its farthest nooks everything that I once knew about the Uzbek flatbread, I nevertheless walked along the line of least resistance, wasting time. Fortunately, memory is not elusive, like sand between fingers, days and years. Fortunately, you can not only strain it, but also refresh it, in contrast to what you have lived through. Complement and notch ...

I mean, the widespread recipe for the sourdough for Uzbek flat cakes is correct only according to the list of components, but not according to the preparation technology. Having succumbed to laziness (they say, why the hell to follow the old rules if there is progress?), I put the components in a heap as prescribed and failed, although I did not particularly notice curvature. True, I am just a humanities scholar, making friends with physics and chemistry, like an amateur. And I cannot explain why the leaven on the piled up ingredients did not show signs of life even on the third day, subject to the leavening rules. But as a humanist, however, I clearly know that the millennial experience of bakers does not need another inventor of the bicycle. And therefore it is better to adhere to traditions, correlating traditional explanations with them. Then everything should turn out the way it always turned out. Let's check?

So, the sourdough "khamirturush" for traditional Uzbek flat cakes (the simplest and most common, which in their historical homeland are called obi-non, that is, baked bread) begins with a small amount of warm and strong lamb or beef broth. Those who are engaged in baking sourdough bread, I think, will not let me lie that in quantitative terms sourdough is a loose concept. This is not "add 5 grams of dry yeast to the dough." Sourdough is a geometrically growing substance capable of accelerating from the thimble volume tenfold. It all depends on when and how much to use it, how long and how correctly its viability is maintained, how viable the starter itself will be. If there is not enough experience in this area, but you want to bake a certain amount of cakes, it is better to start from comprehending the basics of starter than from the quantity. And start at a minimum. Here's how I scooped only two scoops from a broth in which about 40 degrees of heat (a memorable figure, right?), In order to build proportions of other products on this volume.


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In search of the original Uzbek flatbread. Part 1. Sourdough

See also:

Part 2. Making dough and baking tortillas





What has become "wrong" in the Uzbek cake? Or: why is the Uzbek flatbread already "not the same"? The answer, in general, is obvious - yeast. Regular bakery yeast, or even "fast" yeast. They work in the dough, as they should, giving the bread airiness, and the pulp - the characteristic porosity. They are certainly easy to use and very affordable. In the bread familiar to many of us, they may be good and almost irreplaceable.But the originality of the Uzbek flatbread - its unique taste and aroma, the ability to stay fresh for quite a long time - the yeast practically brought to naught. More precisely, they completely brought it to naught, because even the tandoor production of cakes does not make them what they once were.

In Tashkent, unsuccessfully trying to find the original Uzbek flatbread (a paradox, right?), I asked the baker what kind of strange term is used in the flatbread recipe - "trembling"? So this, he replies, is "khamirturush" - that is, "yeast". And he thought about it himself. Over the fact, probably, why instead of "khamirturush" say "trembling" if it's the same thing? Or maybe over the fact that "khamirturush" is "yeast", but not quite? "Hamirturush" both as a term and as a means for raising the dough for flat cakes has existed since ancient times, long before the appearance of thermophilic and, moreover, fast yeast.

In the Russian language there is an alternative to "yeast" - "leaven". She was not found in Uzbek - at least in the translation into Russian. However, because of this "khamirturush" did not cease to be "khamirturush", just in case it was adjacent to "trembling". There was nothing left - to find "khamirturush", more precisely - its recipe. More precisely, one of the recipes. What for?

In the question: what is primary in the Uzbek flat cake - sourdough or tandoor - there is obviously as much uncertainty as in the question of chicken and eggs. However, the sourdough is now quite often replaced by thermophilic yeast, and the cake in the tandoor is quite successful. But to taste, as already mentioned, it is not a cake.

It is more difficult to replace the tandoor with something else, although there are ovens that calmly gain tandoor temperatures. Those who are not quite in the subject, believing that tandoor is not only temperatures, but also "smoke", I will disappoint: in a tandoor prepared for baking bread, there is not only a smoke, but also its smell. The advantage aspect remains. In a tandoor, you can simultaneously bake many cakes of different shapes and sizes, which even the most advanced oven cannot cope with. And the tandoor also provides speed, which is important for baking bread.

Nevertheless, the cake can be baked in the oven if there is no tandoor. On sourdough, this will definitely be a cake, minus the baking method. In the presence of sourdough and tandoor, even this minus will not remain, it is checked. But I'm lazy, like some of you. For fifteen years I am going to build a tandoor at the dacha - I have not. Straining my memory to get from its farthest nooks everything that I once knew about the Uzbek flatbread, I nevertheless walked along the line of least resistance, wasting time. Fortunately, memory is not elusive, like sand between fingers, days and years. Fortunately, you can not only strain it, but also refresh it, in contrast to what you have lived through. Complement and notch ...

I mean, the widespread recipe for the sourdough for Uzbek flat cakes is correct only according to the list of components, but not according to the preparation technology. Having succumbed to laziness (they say, why the hell to follow the old rules if there is progress?), I put the components in a heap as prescribed and failed, although I did not particularly notice curvature. True, I am just a humanities scholar, making friends with physics and chemistry, like an amateur. And I cannot explain why the leaven on the piled up ingredients did not show signs of life even on the third day, subject to the leavening rules. But as a humanist, however, I clearly know that the millennial experience of bakers does not need another inventor of the bicycle. And therefore it is better to adhere to traditions, correlating traditional explanations with them. Then everything should turn out the way it always turned out. Let's check?

So, the sourdough "khamirturush" for traditional Uzbek flat cakes (the simplest and most common, which in their historical homeland are called obi-non, that is, baked bread) begins with a small amount of warm and strong lamb or beef broth. Those who are engaged in baking sourdough bread, I think, will not let me lie that in quantitative terms sourdough is a loose concept. This is not "add 5 grams of dry yeast to the dough."Sourdough is a geometrically growing substance capable of accelerating from the thimble volume tenfold. It all depends on when and how much to use it, how long and how correctly its viability is maintained, how viable the starter itself will be. If there is not enough experience in this area, but you want to bake a certain amount of cakes, it is better to start from comprehending the basics of starter than from the quantity. And start at a minimum. Here's how I scooped only two scoops from a broth in which about 40 degrees of heat (a memorable figure, right?), In order to build proportions of other products on this volume.
Add one medium onion to the measured broth - peeled and chopped at random. As far as I understand the interaction of products, fresh onion in a warm broth is a kind of stimulant for its rather quick souring. That is, creating an environment for the development of a special culture of yeast bacteria. Leave, for example, garlic or onion in yesterday's pilaf - in a day it will definitely turn sour.
Now flour - it will be needed exactly as much as the broth was measured. Souring broth paired with flour - a nutrient medium for the development of a special yeast culture - is a tandem traditional for bread leavens, and there is no need to theorize here.
Flour should be thoroughly mixed with broth and onion, slightly crumbling the onion pieces ...
... and cover the bowl with the future sourdough with something, but not tightly so that the yeast breathes. And - put the bowl in a dark and warm place for fermentation. How much? It's not always the same. From 6-8 hours to a day or more.
In my case, the first signs of fermentation made themselves felt after about 14 hours - with the appearance of characteristic bubbles on the surface of the future sourdough.
However, what happened at this stage is not leaven yet. In the sense that it is not a leaven, because its ability to raise the dough with a rather weak release of carbon dioxide - a by-product of the yeast's vital activity - is small. If we draw parallels with winemaking, this is something like a wort that is sluggishly developing on wild yeast and needs additional "infection" - replanting, for example, cultivated yeast races. The comparison is rough, but the mechanism is the same. Therefore, the fermented substance should be freed from the onion - for example, strain the future sourdough through a colander and clearly determine its remaining volume.
This certainty is needed in order to add exactly the same amount of room temperature katyka or yogurt (which is the same thing) to the resulting volume. Is it possible to replace katyk or yogurt with another lactic acid product? In theory, probably yes, although, for example, katyk (yogurt) and kefir with yogurt are slightly different, albeit lactic acid products.
Then you should add flour - exactly in the amount in which the strained leaven was.
And - stir until the consistency of thick sour cream, leaving no lumps. Close again, allowing the yeast to breathe, and put back in a dark and warm place until ...
Yes, until the almost ready-made sourdough shows its true character - rising and bubbling. It took me another day of waiting.
The bakers, I think, will again not let me lie if I say that freshly prepared sourdough should not be immediately put into action. Ripe over the next couple of days, it will be better in quality, which, of course, will affect the quality of the cakes. It is important to keep the leaven from dying by feeding it at least once a day with warm water and flour, although bakers do this much more often. For such a feeding, you need to know exactly how much leaven is already there. That is, either weigh it (which is better), or move it into a measuring container, so as not to be mistaken.
Having decided on the leaven, the same amount (by weight or volume) of warm water should be poured into it ...
... and stir in the same amount of flour so that the ratio of sourdough, water and flour looks like a 1: 1: 1 ratio.
After thoroughly mixing the components, it is better to pour the "seasoned" starter into a suitable container with a lid, equipped with holes, so that the yeast continues to breathe and does not become aired.But pour it so that the leaven has enough room for growth, because it will certainly rise.
Well, after a couple of days, you can, in fact, take up the cakes. Which we will do to evaluate the leaven in the next part of this recipe.
In between should have been uncopyable photos of the author.
I will post the recipes for the tortillas of this author next time. And they are still working on their best practices. The only thing I can say is that the liquid sourdough in the jar, requiring feeding, did not suit me, because the cake sour unpleasantly. I don't like this aftertaste. Here in the process of improvements ...


Added Friday 24 Jun 2016 8:57 PM

It means that the Uzbeks do not store the leaven, they keep "khamirturush". This is a piece of dough that is pinched off (approximately 150 grams) from the finished ripe dough for the next baking. That is, the Starter is Hamirturush. Over time, this hamirturush becomes stronger. Store it in a cool place in summer: then the finished cake does not sour. When it grows at least twice, knead the soft dough. And in winter it keeps it warmer. Starter consumption is 150 grams per 0.5 liters of milk. It is milk, because the hamirturush mixed with water fades away, that is, it stops growing. And in our country, the leaven grows due to sour olny bacteria, Bulgarian bacillus and streptococci. Thus, water is not a breeding ground for Hamirturush. If you knead the dough with sour milk, then the process of raising the dough is accelerated. For this amount of milk, I add 2 tablespoons of sea salt. You can add butter, sugar, honey, or eggs for flavor. But, sunflower oil is not allowed. It prevents the dough from rising. And how much flour will take 1 grade. Delicious!
If the first baked goods are "heavy", do not be upset, Hamirturush with each baking, and like other starters it gets stronger
Lasto4ka
Assol, Aselechka, I baked cakes the second time today. Outwardly, everything turned out just fine, but the dough is sour ... I just read your "big text" and finally got confused ... Have you already worked out your best practices? Is there a result?
Arka
I'm going to knead the leaven.
Is there anyone in the subject from the experienced?
How is it better? Add Katyk immediately or after the first signs of yeast fermentation?
Or siravno?


Posted Tuesday 24 Jan 2017 1:07 PM

Katyk has not yet added, put it in the cartoon at 30 grams. FROM.
I looked 2 hours ago, and isolated bubbles appeared on the surface. And now there are a lot of them! Urrrraaaaaa! I'll catch, perhaps, onions and add some katyk.
It's a pity, I'm talking to myself here.
People, where are you?


Added on Tuesday 24 Jan 2017 10:43 PM

SOS !!!
I'm going to bake cakes. Do you need proofing after forming?
The oven is not a maximum of 250 gr. C. The stove will be on the stone.
How long does it take to bake?
Aaaaaaaaaa! Help someone!
kubanochka
Arka, Nata, did you invite me here?)
What have you got there?
Arka
Here! Read above last kick-assparagraph
kubanochka
Quote: Arka
I'm going to bake cakes. Do you need proofing after forming?
Quote: kubanochka
Divide the dough into pieces of 200-250 grams. Roll the balls and let them stand for about 30 minutes. Then roll the cakes with our hands, they should be 19 cm in diameter. Standard! Then ... In general, we bake cakes ...
I mold them all, while one bakes, the others part. Bake for 15-20 minutes. Everything depends on your oven.
Arka
Put! 3 pcs. came out 220-240 g.
I measured out the leaven with cartoon glasses, so I got less output. Then I kneaded the dough on 200 grams of sourdough, half of your recipe.
I'll bake for 15 minutes.


Added on Tuesday 24 Jan 2017 11:07 PM

Smells like meat
It's a pity, you can't try right away, otherwise you would get drunk for the night, as usual
kubanochka
it's been 5 minutes ... I'm waiting ...
Arka
I will send a photo soon
The bitten one, that is, the crumb, I will send tomorrow.


Added on Tuesday 24 Jan 2017 11:19 pm

Sourdough in meat broth for Asian tortillas (master class)
I almost burned it !!!
If I hadn't opened the oven a little earlier to see if there would have been coals.
I will bake for the next 10 minutes.
Tomorrow, probably. Depends on the taste of these.I'll try it for breakfast.
How to store them so that the crust remains crunchy and the crumb does not dry out?


Added on Tuesday 24 Jan 2017 11:43 pm

Lena, listen, I did everything with 2 grade flour. Which one?


Added Wednesday 25 Jan 2017 6:08 PM

I left the leftover sourdough on the windowsill. I made a mark with a marker, rose only 1 cm per day. What's with her?

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