French traditional sourdough (thick)

Condensed milk, I'm current in the house - and immediately on to the topic - to find out how you are doing. Judging by the message - after all, there is no half of the loaf! it turned out delicious
Well done! both from myself and from Vicusi

how to insert a photo - it's easier than sifting flour!
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=73109.0

That's what's left ...

And this is in the context ...

And this one is just getting cold ... the aroma of fried onions ...

Here ...
Thanks for the support .

Thank you !

I have a question: is the proofing time for bread weighing 550g and 1000g the same, or does small bread need less time?
And another question: if you need 400g of flour for a 550g loaf, will 200g of sourdough be enough or a lot? Interested in how to calculate how much to put starter cultures ???
For example, this bread
Yeast 1.5 tsp
Wheat flour 420 gr.
Rye flour (peeled) 80 gr.
salt 1.5 tsp
sugar 1.5 tbsp. l.
milk serum 100 ml.
water 220 ml
sunflower oil 1.5 tbsp. l
how to calculate the sourdough not to put yeast?

ooooo, this is a global question - about lope you need sourdough, so that you don't have yeast at all
in my opinion, or rather judging by the reviews of members of the forum, sourdough bread no yeast added in HP it turns out only in HP Panas - in the French bread mode - there the program runs for 6 hours, or for programmable HPs
see this topic for example https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=12549.0

or if the oven is baked according to the algorithm - kneading and proofing in HP, then manual (loaf of bread is needed, with HP turned off) rise - then you can bake in any HP
for example look here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=12549.0

in order to comply with some rules - then the sourdough is added with a maximum weight of as much as flour, that is, if the recipe is for 300 g of flour
200 g sourdough
200 g flour
etc by prescription

you can have less sourdough, you can dough with sourdough, you can take the sourdough for a dough ... but in every way you can

BUT! this recount for liquid french
in general, it's time for you to study the section "Sourdough Bread" and choose a recipe for your taste

PySy - I have never met a recalculation like that
"1 tsp. Yeast = leaven" in my opinion there is simply no such thing
then look for sourdough recipes without yeast
PySySy - I bake with the addition of half the norm of yeast according to the recipe

And you can take a piece of a thick Frenchwoman to transfer it to liquid and when will you use it?

I honestly do not know how to do it right, but I am quite free to handle my liquid leaven - if necessary, I translate it into liquid and back
For example, I have 50 g of ripe liquid, and I need a good leaven for the evening, not peroxidized
Then I feed her like this
50 g of sourdough: 75 g of water: 100 g of flour - it is so thick, but not very dense

if I have a thick, but I need a liquid
50 g sourdough: 100 g water: 100 g flour

thick starter cultures are more aromatic, more reliable in storage
liquid - it is convenient when recounting the recipe, because there are equal parts flour and water

however, I'm afraid the moderator will scold, these are questions from the topic "Leavens in questions and answers"

Thank you! I'll go there and read ...

[Condensed milk]

Condensed milk, I'm current in the house - and immediately on to the topic - to find out how you are doing.

And I also ran from the doorway to the topic.
Condensed milk, bravo! It turned out! There is half left - a true indicator!
.... and I already saw the one with the bow. Well good! Well done!

Thanks for your support and praise !!! No bread came home from work! She ran to her sourdough farm and immediately put the bread. She fed the rest and put them in the refrigerator. It's a pity the time in the evening I would not bake two loaves of bread ...

Something I don’t understand in any way how to store the leaven? At the final stage, I put her in a cold place for a day, now I got it out, I took it on bread, I fed the rest, and what next? Leave it on the table, but I'm afraid it will peroxide until the evening, but before 17-18 hours I won't bake? How to save it until tomorrow evening ???

Condensed milk, you have to feed
French starter cultures are not stored in the refrigerator, they are fed 2 or even three times a day, they are kept all the time at T from 12-15 * C and up to 25-28
at 28 it ripens quickly - 4 - 6 hours (it also depends on the proportion in which they fed, on the type of flour)
at 12 * C (not lower !!!) - then, in principle, you need to look - for some it turns out with such T to feed once every 2-3 days
I have a liquid one, I feed it 2 r per day
If I'm going to bake after work, then I feed in the morning in a ratio of 1: 3: 3, if I need it faster than 7-8 hours, then I either make bread with low-acid sourdough https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=11418.0 (by the way, our favorite bread) or feed in a 1: 1: 1 ratio and not too cold water. To speed up the process, I can put boiling water in a micron with a mug of boiling water, then there T = 29-30 * C and, accordingly, the leaven ripens in 4.5 hours

We feed the required amount - calculate how much sourdough you need for bread, and the rest - we throw away or put in a jar, store in the refrigerator and when the specified amount accumulates - we make pancakes. I just throw it away, because the pancakes in our family are not in special taste
but in general, read this Temko, here Zest offers different options for handling leaven https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=11837.0

And, of course, you need to talk to her and see her behavior !! Thank you!

And, of course, you need to talk to her and see her behavior !! Thank you!

ahhhhaaaa

once she has already fed, then in the morning you will look what to do with her and how to feed

Hello everyone. Since yesterday I have been sitting and reading about different leavens, at first my head was swollen due to the large amount of information. But ... the morning of the evening is wiser and today I set to make three different leavens at once, including a thick French one. Based on the calculation that if one does not work out, then the other should certainly work. I also thought that if everything worked out, then it would be possible to bake different breads and not spend a lot of time transferring from one state to another. The only thing is bad, hands are itching to bake something now, but you have to wait. So I circle around them like a kite. In general, thanks to everyone for the advice. I discovered a lot of new things for myself and I feel as if I just left the forest, while everyone knows about leavens for a long time. But, better late than never.

Larrchik, don't worry, everything will work out
you have to be patient just a little - these three days, while the leaven ripens and grows. Better to talk to her more often and praise her - honestly, they love affection and attention, like any house. animal
True, I have never raised a thick leaven, but I love French women - they are so hard and delicious!

Interesting thing, today it seems like the 22nd lunar day, here is a quote

Lunar day: 22nd
The symbols are an elephant, a book and a golden key. The day is associated with inviolability, stability, world law, knowledge, books, archive, Information Field. This is the period of wisdom, study of secret knowledge, sciences, crafts. Any knowledge is easy to learn. In addition, this is the day of achieving a goal by a person, as well as comprehending his roots.

On this day, you need to fully focus on the most important problem for you and the search for the necessary sources of knowledge to solve it - the main conditions for creativity. On this magical day, the mental abilities of a person and his intuition are especially strong. You can learn new things about yourself and the world. Secret knowledge may open up to you, new ideas and fresh original solutions to old problems may come to mind. Solve problems, achieve your goals with the knowledge gained. However, remember that knowledge can only be used for good, otherwise it will turn against you.

It's not just that we are drawn to certain actions. Intuitively, you orientated yourself and put in the leaven.
Good luck!

Thank you, that's what intuition means. But I wanted to mix it in the heat of the moment yesterday at night looking, it's good that I changed my mind. All the same, it is better to start a new business with a fresh mind, there are more chances to do everything without mistakes, but the grain business does not tolerate haste.

Uraaa, I got 2 of the three starter cultures, the third is not yet ripe.

So do we knead the French sourdough in cold-cold (5 degrees) water or in warm water? At the end of the first post, it is written about cold water when making sourdough, and in the second post, it is written about 1 m day in warm water .. or is it not important? So I took out the flour and I'm sitting thinking ... (I also want to try to grow leaven)

Casket, I'm happy for you! You are already on the way, I just stand on it and HOW I understand you ... my head is spinning from all the leaven too! What, when, in what queue ... HORROR !!!

All, I understand, sorry! I slept on warm water, and from the second day on cold ...

Tell me, plz! Yesterday at midnight I put in a French thick sourdough from scratch. in a plastic container covered with cling film and with a hole in the middle. And now at 15.30 it looks like this:



Maybe it needs to be besieged or already fed? Tell me please. It worries me that midnight is still far away, that is, 24 hours have not yet passed. Maybe you don't have to wait until midnight?

Maybe you don't have to wait until midnight?

You have to wait until midnight. And you do not need to be besieged, it will quiet down on the sly.

I see, thanks, I'm waiting ... I was afraid that she would settle down and die. Well, since the great masters say that waiting is waiting! I will unsubscribe how it will turn out. And then my first "homemade" did not come out, alas ... but this one I put already according to all the rules, only in a reduced number, so as not to waste food if another failure befalls. I hope everything works out.

Oh, I read the further instructions for growing sourdough, and I'm sitting thinking what to do in my situation?
Written:
"Take 300g of the resulting mixture and add 300g of white wheat flour and 150g of cold water (5C) to it. Knead a dense dough, leave for 12 hours at room temperature."
According to my calculations, today at 6 p.m. I will do it all, and tomorrow at 6 p.m. the following manipulations will be needed:
"Take 200 g of the resulting starter culture, 200 g of white wheat flour, 110 g of cold water (5C). Knead, cover and leave to ferment for 8 hours at room temperature."
And my work schedule is 2/2, it turns out that tomorrow I will not be able to get to the leaven before 21.30, so that I can separate the same 300 g of the mixture and feed them. How to be? Well, don't wait for a vacation, what would grow the leaven, and not take it to work (and I won't bring it in at -18 frost), maybe it's not a matter of principle during these 3.5 hours? Here are the next 8 I manage to withstand exactly on schedule, and tomorrow at 18 o'clock, well, I just can't ...

Well, vooot, something my 2nd day does not look at all the same as in the instructions for you, Viki (it has already been 18 hours that it was warm). She's probably dead? I'm desperate, I so want a Frenchwoman for a white bread Is that all? It did not increase in volume, only that from a lump it turned into a batter. And the smell is unpleasant, like vomit.



Start over? But where did I go wrong?

And the smell is unpleasant

Start over? But where did I go wrong?

The leaven has three types of fermentation. They follow one after another. The first (sorry, but I'll write it as it is) putrid fermentation. The smell is usually similar to the smell of rotten grass (or as you wrote ... this is the same). Therefore, we love leavens where the first stage is disguised, we take grapes, onions, raisins ...
And here everything is in full view. The next stage is lactic acid fermentation, here the smell will even out. The third is yeast, but in a French woman it is very short, and in a thick one it is completely in the refrigerator.
Let you grow it, and then we will sniff.

Thanks for the hint and for clarifying the processes. I also decided to try to bring the matter to the end, and then we will decide whether it turned out or not. Barely saved her from her sons, who were melting, that she "stinks in the whole kitchen through a small hole in the film" In general, at the appointed time, I fed her. True, I did not get it as a ball as yours, I added a little more torment, but it still spreads immediately into a thick mass. Let's see what will happen next.So far, she doesn't think of bubbling. I put it in a warm place. But I will feed her not in 12, but in 15 hours, I hope she will not be offended.

I put it in a warm place. But I'll feed her not in 12, but in 15 hours, I hope she won't be offended.

Let's hope that she warms up and won't look at the clock.

Viki, something I apparently started with the children ... at the last stage I put the Frenchwoman in the refrigerator on the lower shelf, and yesterday morning (a day later) I moved it to the upper shelf (there are 10-12 degrees) and ... and she stands there dear already day. Has she already become a "mongrel"? And there are no bubbles (and never were) as large as in your photo. Mine looks like this:


What do you say, start over or not? If not, then I don't really understand what to do with it now, if I'm not going to bake until tomorrow evening? And I still don't understand what it means to feed "idle", I mean I feed, but I don't use it, probably so?
P.S. The smell is nasty and really gone, it smells like something curd and yoghurt, children no longer ask to throw out this muck. This is already a little joy

... I'm not going to bake until tomorrow evening.
... what does it mean to feed "idle", I mean I feed, but I don't use it, probably so?

A pretty lady of French blood. And the smell is appropriate.
Take her out of the refrigerator in the morning and feed her. You need to calculate how much you will need it and feed it so that the dough is enough and remains for storage. By the evening it will be ripe for business. And do not send what remains immediately into the cold. Feed and start the process. I keep it at room temperature for 3 hours if I bake in a day or 1 hour if after three days, and then in the cold.

Thank you, Viki, I will follow your scheme.

You need to calculate how much you will need it and feed it so that the dough is enough and remains for storage. By the evening it will be ripe for business. And do not send what remains immediately into the cold.

How much should be left for storage?

Thank you, Viki, I will follow your scheme. How much should be left for storage?

At least 10 grams are left and it's good. The main thing is to have something to feed and store. We have many here leavened in the dough and washed the jar, and then "oh". I've been so caught myself.

I will try not to do this. While I have another dilemma: in the morning I took out half of the leaven (250 g), fed it 250/137 and put it on the table under a film with a hole. And in the evening I came home from work - it still does not look like an active leaven, there is no such number of bubbles in it as in your first post in the first picture. I don’t know whether to put bread on it or not.

And the other half of the sourdough that remained hungry in the refrigerator looks like this:

There are more bubbles in it, although they are small.
My fears are that if the fed sourdough hasn’t become active for so long, will it be able to raise the dough for bread? (I wanted to try lace).
Maybe it's better to use the "hungry" one? (if at all I did something)

Maybe it's better to use the "hungry" one? (if at all I did something)

Can you taste it? She stood all day - no matter how sad she was.
Make a mark for her to see how much she has risen. Have a thick rise. She usually hides bubbles inside.

it tastes ... a little sour, the one that remained hungry in the refrigerator is sour and then fights a little in the throat, apparently bitter. And at the expense of the rise, she did not rise from me. Bubbles live inside, and the lift can be said to be zero
Now I'm trying the Scarecrow recipe on a hungry one from the refrigerator:
340 g ripe sourdough
265gr of water
400g flour
pinch of ascorbic acid
10g salt
1 st. l. vegetable oil

But I'm not sure what will work out ... Probably everything is in the trash. Apparently still not the first time I get French. I'll try to put a new one tomorrow, if nothing works out, but this time it’s liquid (although I would like to master it thickly, but then I’ll try something with recalculations in recipes, like I’m bloody in the dark.Either add the missing% of water to the thick one and knead the dough, or you just need to take less thick one)

Viki, in general, I didn't get bread ... I got an incapable sourdough, or rather I was not able to grow it, apparently it's not sourdough. In the refrigerator there is a small part of it, fed yesterday, but has risen only by 1 cm, that is, somewhere by 1/5 of its volume. I tried to knead the bread yesterday and reduced the recipe by 2 times, so that it wouldn’t be good to waste it, but it turned out to be low and dull, practically without pores, practically - the sole. I haven’t baked something like this yet. So oak, walnut, or bast - let's start all over again. Or maybe she's not ripe? Maybe it can still be grown or is it not worth it?

Or maybe she is not ripe? Maybe it can still be grown or is it not worth it?

Your starter culture has been grown perfectly. In the last step, she needed to spend 24 hours in the refrigerator. At the end of the cultivation, in dense bacteria, the amount of bacterial MC exceeds the amount of yeast. In the cold, MC bacteria fall asleep and not all wake up, but only the most viable ones. They are what we need. After 24 hours, she had to be taken out of the refrigerator and fed. And you moved it to another shelf and left it for another day or more. What for? So that even the most viable lactic acid bacteria die of hunger in their sleep? And they provide nutrition to the bacteria of wild yeast, which are now also starving. And they must ensure the rise. There is no rise.
To feed her a week without a refrigerator and she would be strong, healthy, then she would live normally in the cold.

To feed her a week without a refrigerator and she would be strong, healthy, then she would live normally in the cold.

Viki, thank you, now I realized my mistake, I thought, since they kept her in the refrigerator at the last stage, then they continue like this, and I thought that you could feed her once every 3 days. (I could not bake the same day, so I left it there for preservation). In general, I did not figure it out really ... Now I will put a new one and try to take everything into account. By the way, the old one comes to life little by little, but since MK is no longer there, and it is not known what is growing, then there is nothing to waste energy on her, although I feel sorry for her (all is not any, but my brainchild)

By the way, the old one comes to life little by little, but since MK is no longer there, and it is not known what is growing, then there is nothing to waste energy on her, although I feel sorry for her (all is not any, but my brainchild)

Feed her three times in the warmth, so she herself will breed these very bacteria. Moreover, the most persistent ones reproduce. She will still show herself. Try it.

I'm just trying
that is, can it still be colonized by bacteria? What if you help her? For example, bio yogurt or directly buy lactobacilli in vials and go! Surely who the thread will take root there

Viki, see how, after feeding (with water and flour, as expected), it grew on a warm battery in 6 hours.I set aside 50 g and fed it and here it is:

Has grown normally or not enough?

Today at 10 she fed her, and after 3 hours, she grew up warm! Uraaa !!! Is it coming to life?



And how to understand whether there is MK or only wild yeast in it? And when will it be possible to transfer it to live in the refrigerator on the upper shelf (there is 10-12 degrees)? It turns out that I fed her already 3 times in 1.5 days. Is it possible to translate already or are we still waiting until tomorrow morning? Tomorrow I leave home for work at 13 o'clock, so there is no one to feed her during the day. was enough? Damn ... confused ... Viki !!!

[What to do?]

Viki, already propped up under the lid! The buns are already baked, delicious



:) I'm going to work tomorrow, I'm not going to bake for the next 1-2 days.
What to do? Well, don't let us make a baking schedule How can I be with her? What to feed again and until morning on the windowsill or feed and in the refrigerator for a day? Heealp !!!

It's just like Belyaev's eternal bread - will fill everything around

[How can I be with her?]

How can I be with her? What to feed again and until morning on the windowsill or feed and in the refrigerator for a day?

And now that option will suit her, and the other. If in the refrigerator for a day, then let her stand for three hours after feeding at room temperature, so that the "process goes", and then in the cold. And she will last a day. Look how the girl is fighting for her life!

And now that option will suit her, and the other. If in the refrigerator for a day, then let her stand for three hours after feeding at room temperature, so that the "process goes", and then in the cold. And she will last a day. Look how the girl is fighting for her life!

that is, we now have baked goods every day. Children are of course just happy. The elder goes to the can of sourdough, and jokingly kisses, saying "mmm ... how glad I am that you are growing every day and it is a pity to throw you away. Now we will have pancakes and pies forever!" I cannot say that I am happy to bake them every night. But glad to have revived the leaven with your experience and advice, Viki! And I am glad that the children no longer call the leaven "fuuu .. stinky, mommy throw it away immediately", but love it like their best friend, providing them with fresh pastries
Here is the dough for pies and buns which is tender:

And the buns themselves are just a complete delight! The dough is soft and tender and does not give burning and rumbling in the stomach.

[ilonnna]

ilonnna, Blimey! Well, you have baked beauty!
I wanted to tell you that after feeding it can be held for only an hour and then in the cold for three days, but I won't. I cannot leave my children without delicious pies and buns every day.

I wanted to tell you that after feeding it can be held for only an hour and then in the cold for three days, but I won't. I cannot leave my children without delicious pies and buns every day.

Oh, that's it ?! And I feed her 2 times a day here, and I myself think "why does the rye MK sourdough grow faster, but you can feed it once every 3-5 days, and the wheat" capricious "needs to be fed daily?" And, it turns out that you can still starve her a little ... Otherwise, today, in despair, I took 20 g of each sourdough for feeding, 50 g each for aromatic rye, and for wheat sieve, and mixed the rest, and I kneaded the dough for the next pies with cabbage, buns with cinnamon, cheesecakes with cottage cheese ... Now just 3 days later, a new portion of bread will grow) And then at this rate by the spring I will become a bun))
Is it possible to refrain from such deliciousness when fragrances spread throughout the house)


Sitny (Mistletoe recipe). Pies with cabbage. Cinnamon buns (cheesecakes hid)
Cut it hot
could not resist
But, Viki? If a French woman can also be fed once a day, then she probably will turn out to be wildly sour? Mine is very sour in a day, before feeding. And .... there is still some not very pleasant odor, albeit subtle. Is it so specific with wheat sourdough or is my joint somewhere at the initial stage? All the same, in order to calm the soul and a more complete concept of the process, it will be necessary to find time to put another one of the same and compare the results.
And yet (maybe a stupid question will seem) does your thick leaven have bubbles after each feeding become smaller and smaller? (Although mine is probably shallower because I decided to convert it from thick to liquid ... it's difficult for me so far to calculate how much thick starter to take if it's liquid in the recipe) Photos that look like a liquid don't open up for me.
Z. Y. I promise not to flood baked goods in the subject anymore

... that your thick starter culture has bubbles getting smaller and smaller after each feeding?

Oh, you have it souring .... Oh, save the girl! Take a little, feed more and don't let it sour. Although, if after transferring to liquid the bubbles become smaller, it should be so. And why am I ... already nervous.
Rye acid is welcome, wheat acid is not.
And when the process after feeding has started (from an hour to three), then it ripens in the cold just as it will be ready for baking.But if it is possible to bake more often, then you can increase a couple of kilograms of sourdough in a couple of days.

Z. Y. I promise not to flood baked goods in the subject anymore

Have you brought bread to the mistletoe there?
But buns, cheesecakes, pies are not a flood, but a continuous salivation and provocation! Let's have some more delicious photos, by the summer we will all be like koloboks!