French traditional sourdough (thick)

Here, I found:

Feeding is not difficult, the main thing is that the fresh feed contains twice as much flour as water.
It is more important that the amount of flour is greater than or equal to the amount of sourdough and in no case less.

If the starter culture is 10 g, then feed at least 10 g of flour and 5 g of water.
This is me for an example. But I myself, I remember, when I kept it thick and it was a pity to throw out the excess, I started just like that. For the second feeding there was already 25 g of sourdough and I added 30 grams of flour and 15 grams of water. Then 50 flour and 25 water, etc. The required amount of sourdough was collected for baking.
When I baked it more often, I could add 100 water and 200 flour to 100 g of sourdough. This is in the evening, and baked goods in the morning.
It is very important here - if you "accumulate" the leaven, then do not let it stand. So as not to get sour.

Thank you! Now everything seems clear in my head!

Thank you! Now everything seems clear in my head!

Of course. You will quickly become friends with the leaven.
Good luck and delicious bread!
Just don't forget to share your successes with us.

Viki, excuse me, but again the question is ripe! Let's say that I feed the leaven every 3 hours, as you explained, when 200g gathered, should we put it in the refrigerator or can we bake it right away?

Bake immediately.
But three hours or more, it will already depend on her behavior. Now she is warm, then cold, that is, the mood, then no ... it happened 3-4 hours, and then it costs 6 hours, albeit warm ...

[Viki]

I have it reactive, rushing. Every 3 hours it doubles exactly.
And this is my morning bread, baked according to the recipe on 1 page of the topic.
URL = https: //Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/r-image/r.1/fp/14a84cd937644e7e90e664ca31c3dc68]
Don't look that his side is torn, I baked him in a Zepter bowl, and covered the other one, it was so swollen that it stuck to the top. To be honest, I didn't even try, a friend came to visit and took him away, now she wrote that she liked it very much.
Viki, I don’t understand one more thing, the ferment is 100% hydration and the ferment is 50% hydration, what do we have? 50%, right?

Viki, I don’t understand one more thing, the sourdough is 100% hydrated and the sourdough is 50% hydrated, what do we have? 50%, right?

I keep it 50%, then 100%. Now it is 100 percent.

100% is a flour-water ratio of 1: 1, and 50% is 2: 1, or am I missing something?

[Aisha]

Aisha, everything is correct. Scientifically, the percentage of hydration is the amount of water for every 100 g of flour.
If there is 100 g of water per 100 g of flour, it means 100%
If for every 100 g of flour there is 50 g of water, this is 50%

[Viki]

Viki, please tell me, will you get a full-fledged sourdough if you cook it from a smaller amount of products specified in the recipe? For example, take half of the whole norm? It's a pity to throw away so much flour

[Aelita]

Aelita, the given proportions guarantee the result. From a smaller quantity they tried and one leaven out of two or three was obtained.
If this is your first thick sourdough, then it is better to throw out a lot of flour at the cooking stage than to get the wrong result later. And if everything works out and friendship with this leaven develops, then next time you will be able to do it from a smaller amount. Then you will notice in time if something goes wrong.
In any case, it's up to you to decide.

[Viki]

Viki, thank you very much for your prompt and detailed response. I really want everything to turn out right, I will do it strictly according to the recipe.

Girls! Sorry for such a question, but there are many places where I see a mention of LJ Ldmila, and the link can be read where, or the forum or elsewhere, so to speak, the original source, otherwise everyone is talking about her and I have no idea about whom :-) :-) thanks !

[ElenaMK]

ElenaMK, to my great regret, Lyudmila deleted her LiveJournal. I have saved so much to my bookmarks, it would have been necessary to copy the recipe texts into a file. And now no

it would be necessary to copy the recipe texts into the file.

Lyudmila, as she went where, always deleted her magazine (I read it from Chaideika once) ... Well, knowing her manner, I accumulated for myself, which was interesting to me ...It is a pity of course that she deleted everything, all her titanic work done, LJ was very interesting and informative ...

[gawala]

gawala, the fact is that I got to know her LJ a little late. Therefore, I did not have time to find out this earlier. Well, there are also many very good and tasty recipes. So there is something to master

Her LJ exists, but there is nothing of what was before ...
🔗
In the Archives, you need to look at what is left ...
And this is her "... about desserts and generally about the beautiful in this magazine" Pretty things "

🔗

Well, there are also many very good and tasty recipes here. So there is something to master

This is not even questioned!

[Viki]

Viki, I asked you again with questions, this time I put a thick one, the first day on rye flour increased by two if not more, after adding white flour and leaving it for 18 hours, there was also a 2nd increase, but after feeding 300 There was no rise for 300 for 150 and 12 hours, something was glowing there and I decided to feed it and left it for 8 hours, and again there was no increase, now I fed it and put it in the refrigerator. though I added a drop of honey and 1.5 tbsp. l. rye flour, knead with my hands, having previously wiped myself on the elbows, talk, praise that she again lacks

what is she missing again

When growing, a thick starter culture accumulates more bacterial MCs than yeast ones, and they inhibit the vital activity of yeast. That's why we put it in the cold. MC bacteria will fall asleep, but not all will wake up, their "population" will decrease and the starter culture will catch the balance of bacteria that it needs.
Everything will be fine.

[Viki]

Viki, here is my photo report, this is rye flour and water in a day, look along the upper edge.

This is 18 hours later, before the new feeding

And this is 12 hours after feeding

Little to no movement

After 8 hours and after cleaning the refrigerator, the dough remained at the same level without increasing, I changed everything except rye flour, maybe something in it, I don't know anymore

[Lena]

Lena, the leaven has already been in the refrigerator, right? She is still young and weak. It happens that it will remain "no" in terms of lift. But I would try to pinch off a small piece (30-50 grams) from the finished sourdough, feed it in a 1-1-1 ratio, you can add half a teaspoon of honey and in a warm place. If it rises in 8-12 hours, then feed it for another couple of days in the same way - take a little and feed it in a ratio of 1-1-1, to a warm place to rise.
If he does not want to rise, then alas - either use it in conjunction with yeast (the leaven will taste positively, and raise the yeast), or start a new one. Unfortunately, this happens sometimes.

[Anchic]

Anchic, thank you, but I was in the fridge and after several dressings no movement. Later I will try to grow it on another rye flour, and tomorrow I’ll take it from a friend and she promised to share it, and tomorrow I’ll buy hops at the pharmacy and put the hop flour again.

Maybe who will answer today, it's not that I'm confused, but ...
All the stages passed, I stood in the refrigerator for 24 hours, rose a little. She seems to be alive. And now, it turns out that, again, almost all of it needs to be disposed of (half of it, for sure) in order to feed and make it strong. Right?
I already need a lot of leaven for tomorrow, I want to bake pies on it for Christmas. Therefore, I took a piece of it, fed it like liquid, it is standing in the room, bubbling, the process is going on, then! But the rest is in the jar, thick, throw it away ... It's a pity. Or can it be adapted somewhere?

[Daria]

Daria, we have a theme like this - Use of "excess" leaven.

[Viki]

Viki, came to say "thanks" for the leaven. He lives on the table in the kitchen, we cook bread only on it, we don't eat another. True, I do not spoil her much, sometimes she goes hungry for a couple of days, dries up from above, but lives. Thank you!

Hello! I decided to make a leaven. And nothing worked for me. At first everything was more or less. But in the end, the leaven turned into a dough in terms of concentration. What did I do wrong?

[Koira]

Koira, so we get the leaven in the form of a piece of dough. Mine was also thick. So I then kneaded her even thicker in order to feed her less often. But I like more liquid.

It seems to me that yours (from the photo) are more liquid. and as I put the formed cake in the refrigerator in a jar. so it lies like a cake. I'll get it tomorrow, I don't know what to do with it.

Hello, Here I put the leaven according to this recipe, let's see what happens, because the first time I can't do anything

Girls, I'm new here, help me. I reread it, but I don’t fully understand. I have the final stage in the refrigerator. What to do next. I take it out of the fridge and how to feed it. Once a day ? If I have now let's say 500 gr. I need to feed 500 plus 500 flour and 275 water. Everyday? I don't want to lose anything. She lives, I think, not in the refrigerator. And after feeding, do we put everything in the refrigerator? How much. Explain. And how much after feeding can the starter be used for baking. I feel like a tree

[loretta0382]

loretta0382, after the refrigerator, you can already leave the next time 50 grams already fed. You can start using it right away, but keep in mind that young leaven is almost always weak and should be backed up with yeast. She will give a taste, but the rise may be too slow and then the bread will simply oxyderate while it rises. Or keep it warm for some time, feeding as needed. If it's hot now, then it's 3-4 times a day. But already a pound of leaven can not be left.

So it can be kept at room temperature? Feed and keep in the apartment?
Is it not necessary to put in the refrigerator after each feeding? Or can she live in the refrigerator? And if I leave for three days and there is no one to feed, can I put it in the refrigerator? And what does this feeding scheme mean?
1 '' after feeding 1 hour at 28C and 3 days in the cold.
2 '' 3 hours at 28C and 24 hours in the cold. This I read about another French sourdough, I realized that this one should be fed in the same way? And what is the correct way to make a deduction for a recipe? If I add 300 grams of sourdough, then I need to remove 200 flour and 100 water from the recipe, right?

[loretta0382]

loretta0382, in order.

1. As I read, it is better to keep the leaven warm, without a refrigerator. But this requires constant feeding of the starter culture. Can be kept in the refrigerator at a temperature of 8 degrees, if the refrigerator gives this temperature. It is possible with a lower one, but then the composition of the leaven will change. The starter gurus argued at the time I was researching this question that this is critical. But I know that a lot of people still keep sourdough in the refrigerator, including a French woman. It's up to you to decide.
2. The feeding scheme you specified means that if you put it in the refrigerator an hour after feeding, you can store the starter culture for up to 3 days. If you keep it warm for 3 hours after feeding, then in a day you need to feed the sourdough in the refrigerator again.
3. If you decide to keep it in the refrigerator, then in general - three days is not a period. I actually kept the rye sourdough in the refrigerator for two weeks. Then she just threw everything out, except for a drop of sourdough from the very middle. And she was already feeding her. She added honey to her, the leaven loved him very much And she came to life normally.
4. The deduction for the recipe was correctly calculated.

Good day! We made a sourdough, now it is in the refrigerator (last stage, 24h). For some reason, the dough is very sticky, it is very difficult to wash off hands and dishes. Does the leaven have to be so sticky?

Thanks for the starter recipe. Used for bread and rolls. tasty not usual .. and smell, it would be necessary to grow again

and what is the percentage of moisture in the leaven? Can't you just translate some other leaven into this percentage? or is there something else special about it? it seems to me that all leavens are on one

Thanks for the starter recipe. Used for bread and rolls. tasty not usual ..and the smell, it would be necessary to grow again

and what, is not really sour?

A thick starter culture accumulates more bacterial MC when grown

and the more bacteria MK, the more sour the dough, then what is the beauty of density?

I am a beginner leavener, I am trying to figure out what's what, I've re-read so many things, but the leaven has remained a secret for me with seven seals

If MK died there, then it is no longer possible to revive them, no matter how hard you try, and there will be no more excellent bread. Here it is well and clearly written about it: 🔗

this is something new for me, but in your own words you can't, otherwise I'm not registered

[Newbie]

Newbie, if the leaven is not overexposed and the bread is not kept on the rise for a long time, then on the first day the bread will not be sour for sure. But during storage, sourness will still appear. I notice her. My first Frenchwoman was super creative and raised bread well on her own in a short time. But I didn’t think of keeping it dry then. But the second was sluggish. If I trusted only her to raise the bread, then it would turn out sour. So I added some prom. yeast (usually 1g was enough) and the dough rose in a reasonable time, the bread was not sour. On the first day Starting from the second, I felt a slight sourness, which intensified on the third day.

Beginner, if you do not overdo the leaven and then do not keep the bread on the rise for a long time, then on the first day the bread will not be sour for sure. But during storage, sourness will still appear.

here you can't get away from her, though prom. yeast, too, now began to add

is it really not sour?

I will clarify - I use it for pastries, but with yeast, I have nothing against them yet, reducing them. Now I use ripe dough, I live in the refrigerator, and when kneading the butter dough I add 300 grams or, as it turns out, into the bread too. I put the dough to ferment overnight in the refrigerator, I really like the structure, smell and taste of such a dough for buns or bread. Although sometimes I put bread like that.

and what, is not really sour?

When grown, a thick starter culture accumulates more bacterial MC,

and the more bacteria MK, the more sour the dough, then what is the beauty of density?

I don't think there is such a straightforward connection between the thickness and acidity of the sourdough. Levita madre and leaven Desem and Vendemic dough with grape must give good, without sourness, bread

I don't think that such a straightforward connection between the thickness and the acidity of the sourdough is that the Italian Levita madre and the Desem and Vendemiyskaya sourdough from grape must dough give good bread without sourness

well, and they complain to the Levite that sour

[Newbie]

NewbieI think it's a matter of taste and personal preference. Most likely, you will feel this sourness in any leavened bread. True, I judge by myself. If not the first day after baking, then the next too. Bread is usually eaten quickly. But I bake bread for 3 days.
Try the bread with ripe dough. This sourness is not there.

Try the bread with ripe dough. This sourness is not there.

Yes, I don’t bake white, but I’ll get used to mixed as a thread, but for black acid is welcome.

And I still did not understand what the thickness of the sourdough affects, except how it ferments more slowly, sort of.

What I like thick, it rises with a cap, and by the cap you can determine whether it starts to sag or not, and when I do it thinner, it does not rise so high, it bubbles for itself, so go and understand when its peak has come

[Newbie]

Newbie, thick less need to feed. To what else - I will not answer right away. By the degree of maturity - liquid is also visible, you just need to observe. It does not rise high, but it grows like a cap and the cap is even. And when it falls, the upper surface becomes flabby.

Well, I also take out all the leavens, apparently with very crooked hands, and I store them even more tough: my sour ones become sour, so I like leaven + yeast = the best combination for a leavening ineptitude.
But the same question is very troubling: what is the difference between these very desem, Levite and Kalvelevskaya, which is done much faster, for example, - this is all for sourdough wheat bread. The bread should not sour with each one. Should I try to display each one? or a little eternal rye + yeast = and score a month of labors on the Levite.
Let's say, after all, for wheat bread, I even feel a little sourdough on rye flour, I can feel some subtle aftertaste that is absent from sourdough on wheat flour. So I wonder if mine is so harmful, since others keep only rye for wheat bread?
I would also like to hear feedback from forum pros about the difference between the famous leavens.
There are a lot of topics about how to bring out the leaven, and why there are so many of them - everyone is silent. Is it necessary?

There are a lot of topics about how to bring out the leaven, and why there are so many of them - everyone is silent. Is it necessary?

I also ask this question

as you read - "my leaven is the most-most." Well, here and now it turned out "very, very", but bring out the same next time, and you never know, the symbiosis will not work out, or simply another will turn out, and then "the other will be much better."

bring out the same another time, and you never know, symbiosis will not work out

Yes, for the first time my Frenchwoman came out very good, strong. But I didn't save her. I mean, when I was leaving on vacation, I decided that then I would bring out a new one and that's it. And the new one turned out to be much weaker So you can't guess here

Yesterday I baked a ciabatta with yeast. The bread is wonderful. And without any leaven. I used good flour, though - I decided to try, what kind of animal is Manitoba

[Tatyana]

Bread should not sour

Tatyana, when I don't need sourness in bread, then I add soda. I definitely use this technique when I bake chiriola and I like the result.