Wheat-rye bread with whole grain flour "Krestyansky"

bye on you!

Here. As always. That's how I live - zatyukanny, not knowing where in America to get gluten, molasses, malt, panafe ... fi ... ugh! Not even knowing how to replace dry milk with wet! Wheat - and there is no wheat to make the malt! (It used to be that they would drive you to a collective farm, shovel the grain, pour it into a bag - no one will say a word to you! You will bring it home, you will sprout ... oh, that is me! ..) Poor country! And what a poor man I am! And here?!! There is not even a sobbing emoticon, you have to be content with this:

Here in Portugal, I also thought that there was nothing. And there were a lot of things! And the wheat was found! Not in the supermarket, of course. But I found it in stores where grain and seeds are sold. For "collective farmers". For those who feed the animals at home. There are all kinds of chickens. Maybe you can find one here.

Yes Yes! That's right! What if he runs away?!?

Sorry for using an expression that is not entirely clear to the "beginner"

"Follow the kolobok" - control the dough kneading process.
In 10 minutes after kneading, a beautiful bun should form.

First, I ask you to familiarize yourself with the theory of all kinds of "koloboks" here:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=131.0

Thank you, very interesting and useful section!
Well, actually, I'm not that newbie. This is where I just registered. I've been baking bread for almost a year now, and I know what a bun is. Another thing is that with a completely remarkable appearance, then something inedible is obtained from it. So I decided to figure it out, and at the same time try new recipes, otherwise my wife is already capricious, she says that she is already tired of my bread, and has already (oh, horror !!!) started buying in the store especially for herself! With preservatives !!!

[Krosh,]

Krosh, thanks for the recipe! Very tasty and smell!

I bake this gray bread four times in a row and I still want it!

I noticed this recipe for a long time, but I only got whole grain flour now.

I baked it strictly according to the recipe, but it turned out that my flour needed 325 ml of water.

[eeyore donkey]

eeyore donkey, don't cry!

Everything can be found everywhere! Start with ebay, ask your acquaintances, torment the sellers in a Russian store (well, there must be dry kvass or kvass wort for making kvass!), Go to a store selling organic products. My friend found absolutely everything in New York - malt, panifarin (gluten), and dry sourdough, and Chicago is worse ?!

[eeyore donkey]

eeyore donkey, don't cry!

Everything can be found everywhere!

Effective! Thank you! Can you identify these products, as you did with panifarin? For example, I don't remember any recipe I know of dry kvass. Is it called something else or does it replace something?

Dry kvass replaces malt. The store set "Kvass" includes - dry red malt and dry yeast. They also sell kvass wort in cans, you can also use Glofa extract. Maybe you will find it.

Well. Immediately I found Molasses (judging by the dictionary - molasses), which is included in the local recipes. Found a liquid kvass concentrate. The question arose: is gluten (panifarin) really needed and what role does it play? The question is caused by the fact that one of the torments was large - as about dignity - it was written: Gluten free.

And when he came home, he delivered bread according to the Darnitsa recipe, making small changes. In particular, I took whey instead of water. And he added a pinch of oregano. The bread turned out to be small, but undeniably better than before. Regularly rose, turned out to be soft, tasty, with a crispy crust. So thanks to everyone who comforted!

Some problems arise due to the fact that here in the recipes they write the WEIGHT of flour, and I have to operate with volumes (measuring cups-spoons). However, I think there should be no big mistakes.

The bread is good! well done donkey IA! if you wish, you can find everything
Panifarin (gluten) is needed if flour with low gluten (like ours, Ukrainian) for adding especially to bread with added gluten-free flour (rye, oatmeal, corn, etc.) - so that the bread rises, is not a "brick". You cannot replace it, but you can try other ways of raising bread - for example, instead of liquid, take potato broth.

Some problems arise due to the fact that here in the recipes they write the WEIGHT of flour, and I have to operate with volumes (measuring cups-spoons). However, I think there should be no big mistakes.

I assure you - very often this is the problem! buy a scale - almost never punctures

Something is wrong with me again. I put the bread, as before, on whey, with proven yeast. I added liquid kvass extract (malt), bought and added (1 tablespoon) gluten (= panifarin, gluten ...). The result is in the pictures: the bun was kind of normal, but it rose badly, the top was ugly, it tasted good. What is wrong? How to fix?

Expose completely the bread recipe, what and how much was laid, how and other subtleties were measured - then you can say something

Expose completely the bread recipe, what and how much was laid, how and other subtleties were measured - then you can say something

Serum - 320 ml
Honey - 2 tsp.
Malt - 1 tbsp l.
Salt - 1 tsp
Corn oil - 2 tablespoons l.
Rye flour - 300 ml (1 1/4 cups)
Wheat flour - 500 ml (2 cups)
Gluten - 1 tbsp l.
Yeast - 1.5 tsp


The same amount of pure wheat flour (about 4 cups) in a similar recipe just comes out of the pot without any gluten! I thought he would raise any flour at all!

[eeyore donkey]

eeyore donkey , let's begin to deal with weight indicators.
Wheat flour - 2 cups (250 ml cup) = 300 grams of flour.
Rye flour - 1 1/4 cups = 130 grams + 32.5 = 160 grams of flour
Total flour is 460 grams.
Yeast is normal - 1.5 tsp
Vegetable oil is normal - 2 tbsp. l
Honey 2 tbsp. l - the salt should be increased to 1.5 tsp as this discrepancy can lead to rapid growth of yeast. Salt regulates sugar and prevents the yeast from growing uncontrollably.

We calculate the amount of liquid: serum 320 ml, oil 30 ml, honey 30 ml, = approximately 380 ml.
Solids by weight: flour 460 grams + malt 10 grams = approximately 470 grams.

Compare with Standards Amount of flour and other ingredients to make bread of various sizes https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1625.0
Wheat bread - BIG BULK - for 450 grams of flour, about 300 ml is required. water (liquid). You have taken 380 ml. liquids.
Even taking into account the fact that you did a batch with the presence of rye flour - there is a lot of water (liquid).

You made "Peasant" bread with wheat-rye with whole grain flour. You should understand the terminology of the types of flour:
Pure wheat flour
Whole grain wheat flour
Rye flour.

Pure wheat flour differs from whole wheat flour, which is coarser and requires skill, another bun, and more liquid, just like rye flour.

You have a problem with the ratio (balance) of flour and liquid. Follow the kolobok !!!!!!
What should be a gingerbread man in the presence of rye flour and whole wheat wheat, see here: Whole grain flour gingerbread man https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49810.0
Gingerbread man made from wheat-rye flour
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49811.0

In these topics, I gave a description of the state of the kolobok.

Gluten is not a panacea for mixing mistakes. If there is a mismatch between the balance of flour and water, gluten will not save you!
Wheat flour is simpler and lighter than rye and whole grain - you don't need to add gluten to it at all, the dough will rise just fine, especially with whey.

Success

[Admin]

Thank you, Admin!
Two clarifications:
The malt was not dry, but a liquid kvass concentrate, which was called malt a few posts above. It is sweetish, so there were 2 teaspoons of honey (not tablespoons, as you quoted!) Spoons.
The flour was pure wheat, "Five Roses".
You're right: when the malt, honey, butter and salt were mixed in the whey, about 2 cups of liquid and it worked. This is even more than 380 ml. It seemed to me that the kolobok turns out to be very cool with less liquid. Next time I will make these clarifications. So should there be ~ 300 ml of liquid AFTER adding honey, oil and other soluble and liquid additives? Or is it BEFORE?
Observing the kolobok is usually complicated by the fact that I put the bread in the night so that it will be ready by morning.
Thanks again!

Without waiting for clarification, I sharply reduced the amount of liquid (340 ml with oil and additives), mixed and sifted flour, mixed honey, molasses and liquid kvass concentrate in whey, and at the end of the first batch I also poured a pinch of cumin. The gingerbread man followed the recommendations exactly. The result is here:





Crust not very even on top. In the top picture on the crust, you can clearly see that the dough was very difficult to mix. Was it too cool? The crumb structure is coarser: is it gluten's job? The bread went up very well, but I expected more. It is very tasty, reminds "Riga" loaf, but I have it much more tender. Well, the advantage of freshly baked bread over yesterday's, of course, also plays a role. A quarter of the bread was devoured with kefir immediately ...

Well done, donkey IA, do not give up! You will see your bread with experience will be more beautiful and tastier. I had it like that.
The main thing is that you liked the taste. Yes, fresh bread with kefir

[eeyore donkey]

eeyore donkey, the result is obvious - on bread! The roof was done

As far as I understand from your photo, you have a x \ n similar in appearance to Hitachi, and the same bucket.
If so, then take my recipes and recommendations as a basis - I bake bread, and I did a master class on koloboks on Hitachi.

You can see my bread recipes here, choose https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=61568.0

Success

[Admin]

Thank you so much!

Admin, if you do not mind, please answer my questions. I hope that with your experience it is not at all difficult for you, but I would like not to follow stupid recipes, but also to understand what is happening, foresee the consequences and look for my own "variations on the theme".

[Admin]

Admin, if you do not mind, please answer my questions.

It will not complicate just to understand the process, read the links that I gave
And we will work either in the recipe theme according to which you bake bread, or in the Help theme, it does not work.

Going?

Going?

How it goes! Thank you! I managed to look through something from your master classes - this is such a huge array of great information that it is - not just to comprehend - it even takes a lot of time to read it!
Since it is based on a recipe from this thread and we are talking here, here I will ask:
1) should the amount of liquid indicated in the recipe be AFTER honey, oil, and other soluble and liquid additives? Or is it BEFORE?
2) what is fundamentally important: the presence of gluten or the quality of the kolobok, if less "viable" types of flour are used together with wheat flour (corn, oat, rye ...)?
3) does malt replace sugar in recipes? What about molasses (it's sweet too)? And if both of them are introduced into the dough, how do they relate to each other?

Thanks again!

1) should the amount of liquid indicated in the recipe be AFTER honey, oil, and other soluble and liquid additives? Or is it BEFORE?
2) what is fundamentally important: the presence of gluten or the quality of the kolobok, if less "viable" types of flour are used together with wheat flour (corn, oat, rye ...)?
3) does malt replace sugar in recipes? What about molasses (it's sweet too)? And if both of them are introduced into the dough, how do they relate to each other?

Thanks for the kind words and flowers

1. no matter how to lay.you can mix everything into a bunch of kolobok, in this case, you will regulate it with flour.
learn to work with the dough according to the "flour in water" principle, the result is guaranteed!

2. the presence of gluten is not essential. I do not use gluten and panifarin at all, I manage with other means that have good lifting power - old cottage cheese, whey, potatoes. about this see my recipes and dough composition.
when laying other types of flour and groups, see the recommendations in the topic Bookmarking rates ...

3. malt is rye sprouts ground into flour. therefore they are not a substitute for sugar. sugar, molasses, honey replace each other, and they must be added in the same amount as indicated in the sugar in the recipe.

ask more questions like this

Krosh, here is my handsome one according to your recipe

[kleskox35]

kleskox35
No, he's not handsome, he's SUPER BEAUTY ! Well, how does it taste like to you? Interesting ...

P.S. Did you grease it with something before baking? The color came out too hefty ... tanned ...

The tiny little one is very tasty, I add more sunflower seeds inside, and the color is such because of the oven, it is small and with convection + I love the sunburn

[julifera]

So I decided to post a photo of delicious bread
By option julifera

[julifera]

So I decided to post a photo of delicious bread
By option julifera

[Tiny,]

Tiny, finally I got here to thank you for such a wonderful recipe, I printed it out for myself a long time ago, in the first days of mastering HP, I didn't even register on the site then, this bread in our family is one of the most popular, recipe I already know by heart without any cheat sheets, I always get excellent bread, I boldly recommend it to my baked relatives and friends, always only good reviews.
P.S. I spent a lot of time looking for this recipe (to thank), for some reason it does not open from the general table of contents,: red: I have already started looking for the authors

Sveta, please tell me. When you use whey instead of water, your bread doesn't taste bitter ?! I just use whey instead of milk or water. So my dad always tells me that the bread tastes a little bitter for him. please tell me Sveta or someone who knows. I don’t understand why he keeps getting bitter on serum all the time? what does it depend on ?! :

Well, nobody knows, they can't tell why the bread tastes bitter on whey. what am I doing wrong!

[roza5]

roza5 , my whey bread is not bitter. Try asking your question in the section: Milk and fermented milk products

Thank you. well

[Crumb!]

Crumb! I was very interested in your recipe, but was puzzled on which program to bake it? At least about? On the base or knead - rise - baked goods like rye? I have little experience, but I can't figure out something

[Kisya]

Kisya
I bake this bread on the program "Whole wheat bread" .

[Crumb!]

Crumb! Thank you so much for the recipe! : rose: I didn’t wait for an answer, I baked it yesterday on a French program. It turned out very tasty bread! I will bake it often now. Just the taste that I have long wanted! I'll try on whole grain. There is no photo report, everyone ate.

[Kisya]

Kisya
Urrrah! I am very glad that I liked the bread! I also tried to bake it in the French mode, to be honest, I did not notice the difference ...

[Kisya]

Kisya
I bake this bread on the program "Whole wheat bread" .

Krosh, thanks for the recipe. I baked it twice according to this recipe. The bread is very tasty, baked well, but for some reason it did not rise well both times. True, my rye flour is not peeled, and besides, it has expired. By the way, I have a question. Can expired rye flour affect the rise? Then, for 660 g of flour, it is necessary, apparently, to give 2.5 tsp of yeast, although it is baked, finely porous, and the taste is unusual. Baked on whey, added panifarin. Once baked on the "Whole-grain" program, the second - on the "Rye" program - it rose better. Thank you.

I baked bread according to your recipe, but he didn't get up. Please help me find the error.The flour was wheat 240g and whole grain rye 240g, and instead of dry milk 60ml of liquid. Maybe this is the problem?

I baked bread according to your recipe, but he didn't get up. Please help me find the error. The flour was wheat 240g and whole grain rye 240g, and instead of dry milk 60ml of liquid. Maybe this is the problem?

Well, then read out the entire list of ingredients, what and how much they took, how they measured - let's see what and how

So: 1.5 tsp. yeast
240 gr wheat flour
240 gr whole grain rye
1.5 tsp. salt
1 tbsp. l. Sahara
1 tbsp. l. sunflower. oils
65 ml milk
240 ml water
In that order, I laid it. Bread maker Panasonik SD 254, basic mode. The bread came out very tasty, but did not rise at all.

[Crumbs]

We consider:
flour 480
liquid 15 + 65 + 240 = 320 APPROXIMATELY!
Yeast is normal in quantity, so you need to check it for quality - activate it before use.
The liquid is also normal, but you have half of the whole grain rye flour, so it is advisable to add a few more tbsp of water. spoons so that the dough becomes whiter, soft, elastic - then it will be easier for it to rise, it is easier for the yeast to work.
The addition of milk has nothing to do with it, it is not enough and the author of the recipe also uses milk (dry).
But, for rye dough, it is better to add something sour: apple, juice, kefir, vinegar, etc. - the dough will rise better.

Try to bake the bread again!

Have Crumbs the bread is wonderful, so the recipe works well!

Is it possible to completely replace wheat flour with rye or whole grain flour in a recipe? Will the dough rise? Thank you!

[Natalyushka]

Is it possible to completely replace wheat flour with rye or whole grain flour in a recipe?

Natalyushka, I haven't tried it with rye, but with whole grain I completely replaced the entire amount of wheat flour offered in the recipe!

Will the dough rise?

But where does it go, it rises like a cute one !!!

Krosh, thanks for the recipe !!!!! Hell already 4 times, it always turns out delicious and beautiful! And what a smell !!!!! Someone wrote that the smell is extraordinary. Indeed, no bread smells like that. I set it with a timer for the night so that I could get fresh bread by morning. So from the smell everyone got up ahead of time and pulled themselves into the kitchen. Ate in a day. Thank you very much!!!!!

Black bread just doesn't work out. I tried several recipes with rye and whole grain flour, different modes. The top is flat or falls through, the inside is raw. What am I doing wrong? I can't use wheat flour, so in the recipe I used 330 g of whole grain flour, 30 g of wheat bran, 120 g of rye flour, the rest is exactly according to the recipe. Baked rye bread 3h30min. She took it out, wrapped it in a towel to ripen. The crust is crispy, raw inside. The flour is good. I don't want store-bought bread, but I really want black

Natalyushka, for a start, let's go here to read and study. Bread didn't work out again, I did everything strictly according to the recipe. What can be wrong? https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=146942.0

And then we choose a recipe for wheat-rye bread from simple recipes and available for beginners in the topic The simplest bread (according to bread maker models) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=499.0

Good luck!

[Delicious]

What can I say - bread Delicious!!!! Even I, not a special eater of bread, but of gray varieties, was especially impressed! I baked 2 loaves, took the first one to a friend (I now go on a visit with bread instead of purchased pies), and decided to bake the second one for the house. On the photo the 1st option, one side has risen slightly worse. The second time I added more serum, 340ml. because flour is for me general purpose. Baked on a dietary regime, rye shoulder blade.

[Delicious]

What can I say - bread Delicious!!!!

Dumpling, I am very glad that you liked the bread !!! Eat for health !!!

Thank you very much for your review and photo of your wonderful bread !!!

Today I baked bread according to this recipe. For some reason, it rose excellently, but when baking, the donkey, although still tasty, but not beautiful, turned out. Why can this be so? Bread maker Panasonic 2501, baked on dietary mode (5 hours). Maybe you need to bake on a different mode, since here it is not only from whole grain flour? How many bread should be made in KhP on average according to the program?

Thanks a lot for the recipe !!!
This is now the favorite bread in our family. I bake it every day (for about a week now)
I've tried different "combinations" of flour and always tastes amazing!
I want to bake a whole grain tomorrow.
I also add some caraway seeds.

Does the author of the recipe have malt, agram and panifarin? I haven't seen this in the main author's recipe)

Since this is not an author's recipe, we do debriefing in the topic Help, nothing happens with bread !!! (Ambulance) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=33.340 - let's go there