Wondering why there are different proportions of water and flour?

For example, in what position to put a flag in the bucket so that it is inserted into the oven faster and without a rumble.

I always put my scapula at the 3 o'clock position. There is no sense in this, but it helps not to forget to put it at all

And how to put the handle from the bucket, towards yourself or away from you.

Only from myself !!!

I always put my scapula at the 3 o'clock position. There is no sense in this

The meaning is also very clear.
Set the paddle for three hours, and set the counterpart, in the HP itself, for 12 hours.
Then it is inserted amazingly, the soul rejoices, and the bucket slightly turn to the right, until it stops. This is so that it does not crash at night and does not frighten the parrot in the kitchen.

Set the paddle for three hours, and set the counterpart, in the HP itself, for 12 hours.

Great! And that when rotating (mixing), they always stop in a "strict" position. And it never happens, for example 11:54?

[they always stop in a "strict" position. And it never happens, for example 11:54?]

they always stop in a "strict" position. And it never happens, for example 11:54?

It makes no difference how it stops.

When the bucket is removed, put the HP drive at 12 o'clock, strictly vertically, and the bucket spatula at 3 o'clock, horizontally.
Then the bucket is inserted without jamming, freely.

We continue to flood;) A student (Bill) asks the professor (John) with a big, bushy beard: "When you sleep, do you put your beard on or under the blanket?" As a result, John began to think about how he puts it and how it is more convenient for him. He could no longer sleep, for it was already uncomfortable.

Additive to Brad Pete's position.

Our bread can theoretically be divided into two substances: crust and crumb. They both differ in the amount of moisture. Accordingly, the larger the crust / crumb volumetric ratio, the less water is needed. This volumetric crust / crumb ratio in small bread is greater than in large, and the amount of water is not directly proportional, or rather the water / flour ratio.
Well ... but I did the opposite ...

You, Hairpin, are mistaken and inattentively read the topic.
Nothing depends on the volume!
The most watery bread is the average.
And the driest is big and small.
You will have to think about the numbers again:

in my instruction
400 g flour / 260 ml water, cal. 1.54
500 g flour / 330 ml water, cal. 1.52
600 g flour / 360 ml water, cal. 1.67,

I propose to go from flooding to business. Namely - for the next baking, please measure on an electronic scale:

1. The weight of the original ingredients before placing in the HP (it is best to weigh it together with the bucket, and then subtract its weight)
2. Weight of bread immediately after baking.
3. The weight of the bread after it has cooled down.

The more data on the different sizes of loaves, the sooner we will solve this puzzle.

I do not have such an opportunity, there is no electronic scale.
I also counted the proportions of yeast, there are also misunderstandings.
We must give up this laboratory analysis and bake at random.

I do not have such an opportunity, there is no electronic scale.

This is in vain, a very useful thing for a baker.

I also counted the proportions of yeast, there are also misunderstandings.

The amount of yeast (IMHO) in all recipes and on the bags with dry yeast themselves is given with a large margin. That does not really affect in the case of purely wheat bread, but it is clearly manifested in the form of a collapsed roof of wheat-rye bread. There it is already necessary to select the dosage very carefully.

We must give up this laboratory analysis and bake at random.

Master-master

In order not to start a new topic, I will ask a small question, maybe someone knows why, in the instructions for SD-254, they so insistently ask not to put anything on the HP lid during baking?
On the contrary, I always want to put the load, so that it is denser and the heat does not come out.
Why are they so wary of the load on the lid?
After all, steam may well come out through special holes.

When the HP is working, the lid does not get very hot, but if you put an object or cover it, deformation can occur, the lid is plastic, it covers the dispenser (in 255 mod), under it is another metal. She also covers the compartment with the bucket.

I took this cover apart, for the sake of curiosity.
I want to add some weight inside, 300 grams.
Let it be tighter.

[Matzal Kouschek!]

You, Hairpin, are mistaken and inattentively read the topic.

You will have to think about the numbers again:

Well, here I got it!

Matzal Kouschek!
The fact of the matter is that I am thought it over... Difference in the first and second digits in elementary rounding. If we leave constant, for example, the first coefficient of 1.54, then we get:
400 g flour / 260 ml water, cal. 1.54
500 gr flour /330 325 ml of water, cal. 1.52
And they rounded up all the flour and liquid weights to 10.
You need to be more attentive to the numbers, comrade!

Hairpin, no need to soar in the clouds and invent numbers that are not in the instructions. Let's not talk about fantasies, but about the existing proportions, which clearly show that the wettest bread is medium, and the driest is large and small. No "if a"I have not seen the instructions, its text is in front of me and I clearly understand all the lines written there.
If I were a dreamer or an art worker, I would not open the instructions at all, and would do everything at random, as I was advised at the beginning of the topic.

[Matzal Kouschek]

Matzal Kouschek, I translate

400 g flour / 260 ml water, cal. 1.5
500 g flour / 330 ml water, cal. 1.5
600 g flour / 360 ml water, cal. 1.6

You need to be more attentive to the numbers, comrade!

Colleague, are soulless numbers the main ones in baking ?? My opinion is that absolutely no !!
The main thing here is love, the efforts that the baker put in, and I'm not afraid to say a piece of art called bread ..

[Mel]

Mel!
You have your first message on the forum, from which I conclude that you are a beginner. Therefore, I clarify that the bulk of the forum's representatives are creative people, with a touch and so on. And I am uncreative, without a touch and the like. Therefore, I prefer the option "How many grams to hang!". This is my position formed for a long time. So for me the numbers are always the main ones!
Do not worry too much, there are not enough people of my plan here, so you will always find interlocutors to your liking!
Well, we can’t be all the same !!!

[The assumption was confirmed.]

I think so - this is due to the fact that part of the water is evaporated during baking, and it is not evaporated in proportion to the original amount.

I checked this assumption experimentally (in fact, for a long time, I just didn’t have time to publish it). I took my recipe, recalculated it in Excel for 3 standard sizes of a loaf, changing all the components in strict proportions. Baked different sizes several times.

The assumption was confirmed. In order not to load with unnecessary numbers, I will give the most basic ones:

Size M (400 gr. Flour): average "shrinkage" during baking is 11% from the original weight
Size L (500 gr. Flour): 9,5%
XL size (600 gr. Flour): 7,5%

Corollary 1. When converting recipes from a larger to a smaller size (or vice versa), the fact of disproportionate shrinkage should be taken into account when calculating the amount of liquid required for a particular recipe.

Corollary 2. It is unlikely that it was this fact that caused the inconsistency in the numbers in the instructions for Panasonic. I am inclined to believe that there is a banal typo. If you replace 360 ​​in the white bread recipe with 390, then all the coefficients will become approximately equal.

I have long approached the "shrinkage" a little differently.I counted the numbers, took and conditionally divided all the components into dry and liquid. Outcome:
~ 35% of liquid evaporates. This figure is approximate, since K. I took 5 recipes somewhere. Knowing this, it is easy to know the future original baking weight of a new recipe.

Thanks to Matzal Kouschek for an interesting topic. I myself racked my brains over the question of changing the proportions of water / flour. Although most of them are creative people, I'm still a techie and I want to know what is the reason ?!
I carefully read the entire thread. He dismissed various assumptions such as:
"The amount of flour and water (all liquid) depends on many reasons, and can constantly change, so the" ratio "will also change," in different weather, season and with flour from different manufacturers, the ratio of flour and water changes slightly. " the weather, what time of year ?! Here is a bag of flour and a glass of water, which must be mixed. As it turned out from the recipe, 3 options are possible:
400 g flour / 260 ml water, cal. 1.54
500 g flour / 330 ml water, cal. 1.52
600 g flour / 360 ml water, cal. 1.67

Bread Pete says (# 70) it's a typo. I disagree, because in the same instructions for P255 in similar recipes the same proportions. In the same Bread post, Pete suggests it is a DRY. I am leaning towards this option. Only it would be more correct to call it UPEC, as fugaska (#) 31 wrote: "... To reduce the bale, increase the mass of bread ...".

Now I will try to explain everything on my fingers. We take two glass jars 1 liter and 3 liters. This is me modeling two loaves of different sizes. The difference in size is not important, the main thing is to make it clearer. Their necks are the same, which means the evaporation area is equal. Now let's assume that there are 100 (to some extent) and 300 water molecules (farther m.v.) in the jars, respectively. This will correspond to the moisture content of the dough in the loaves, i.e. initially the moisture content in them is the same. Now we open the cans and heat them - I simulate the baking process. Let's say 50 meters of water evaporated from each jar, evaporated. Now in the first bank there are 50 m. In., In the second 250 m. In. BUT HUMIDITY IN THE FIRST DECREASED BY 2 TIMES, AND SECONDLY BY 1.2 TIMES.
And the humidity should be the same in both cans-loaves.
The numbers here are all conditional, the main thing is to understand the principle.
From the above, we conclude that the smaller the loaf, the more it loses moisture. This means that the smaller the loaf, the more water it needs (in relation to flour).
Now the question arises. And why in an average loaf the coefficient is less than in a small one (see above). Honestly, I don’t know! For myself, I explain this by rounding, and the difference is not great. The main thing is that I understood the principle - the smaller the loaf, the more water it needs (in relation to water).
I made all these conclusions after reading this thread, therefore, if not right, correct it. Just don’t laugh at such thoughtful research, and don’t say that it’s more important not grammes, but “a sense of dough”, improvisation, etc. Perhaps you are right, but I like to improvise, starting from basic knowledge. Understanding the "general line" so to speak.
Thanks for reading. Good luck to all!

Guys, grief about world problems does not lead to good ...
Uncle Kolobok, will show what he needs, add flour, or drop a couple of drops of water, as a result we will get a good bread ...

So, exactly 10 years have passed since I published this topic.
All these 10 years I baked bread every day, but did not appear on the forum here.
I accidentally remembered, after 10 years, I recovered the password, looked at this topic, but no one wrote anything new and the topic was not disclosed.
It is sad.
Then, until we meet again, in the next 10 years ...