Airy sourdough bread

[Margit, himichka]

Margit, himichka thank you for your responsiveness

Thank you kava. The bread is delicious and aromatic.
my impressions.
I made 300 g of flour, it turned out that it was too much, so the bun was dense. next time I'll start adding flour to the dough with 250g.
Of the additives, sesame seemed appropriate in bread.
And thanks to the girl in the subject who suggested that the spices should be rubbed in a mortar - the aroma of the bread turned out to be breathtaking !!!
I used a cold proofer for 18 hours.
The rest is by prescription.

However, kava, there are questions.
1. Is it necessary to mold rye bread?
2. Using a cold proofer, I grew the dough = sourdough in a warm place and after increasing it, I kneaded the dough and placed it in the refrigerator for 18 hours. What do you think, having deviated from your technology, I greatly changed the taste of bread ???

[Yaroslavna]

Yaroslavna, I'm glad that you are baking bread according to my recipe!

You need to mold any bread (even pure rye, although this is quite difficult)

I think that the taste of bread will not change much and with your technology it will be delicious. I've tried both. However, my experience of baking bread on a long-term leavened dough (my version) and kneaded dough with its subsequent long-term proofing-fermentation in the cold is somewhat different. It is more airy with the original technology. But in the second (your) version, the surface of the bread is always perfectly flat, albeit a slightly denser crumb. My friend's father-in-law says that it has a more bready spirit, such as baked in the oven before. But it's all a matter of taste. Try this and that to determine what tastes best for you and your family.

It is more airy with the original technology. But in the second (your) version, the surface of the bread is always perfectly flat, albeit a slightly denser crumb. My friend's father-in-law says that it has a more bready spirit, such as baked in the oven before.

kava, thanks, you confirmed my guesses. I will bake both options and share my impressions

I'm just learning to make bread with sourdoughs
Any starter culture in this recipe will work?

I think yes. The principle of operation of the starter culture is the same - fermentation. So try it on yours.

I read that they baked this bread on a semi-finished rye sourdough. She already makes me happy, finally
In this recipe, feed the leaven and leave it until it doubles, and then put the dough on it? or just 50 g of sourdough from the refrigerator into a dough?

immediately 50 g of sourdough from the refrigerator into a dough?

Add 50 g of ripe sourdough from the refrigerator to the dough, let it increase 2-3 times, and then everything is according to the scenario

Girls, tell me what to do? The French sourdough does not increase in size after 3 days, but it is already very pleasant to the smell and even does notkla on it Darnitsky bread turned out delicious.

Here's the bread.

And this is in sizeeze.

[ka]

ka, baked in a bread maker? The cut is excellent - uniform porosity. Large loaf. The leaven did well, despite being young. I hope the bread tastes good to your table!

Yes, the bread tastes very good, but the leaven is not as suitable as shown on the forum. But I, in my opinion, guessed what the problem is. I fed her all the time with premium flour, so she's probably waiting.

photo of my starter on page 13

Hello Kava!
I baked your bread several times and there were questions.
-550g. what flour? I took 1st grade.
-program 30 min. kneading, 1 hour proofing. I have a similar one called "yeast dough", and comes with heating. Does this recipe need warmth?
-After an hour of proofing, whether it is necessary to remove the bread from the x. b. and how to mold? I will stroke it in my hands and again in x.etc., sprinkle water on top, bake in an hour. It seems to be nothing, but it is more finely porous than yours.

[chicken]

chicken, you can take 1 grade (I take the highest or whole grain, along with the highest one).
That's right, yeast dough program. Heat is needed for a good lift.
If the oven was in HP, then I took out the dough, took out the spatula, put it back, let it rise 1.5-2 times and then turned on the baking. Or As part of a standard program (like "country bread"), after kneading and first lifting, I took out the spatula and put it back (then the dough still had time to rise and then baking was automatically proceeding). For the last 3 years I have baked only in the oven (it tastes better for me) And I try not to knead the bun, but to be pleasantly soft (just spinning with such a "comma" in a bucket) - this also affects the porosity and rise.
Good luck and delicious bread!

I already have the dough in the mold, I can't wait for the result
The sourdough was kept in the refrigerator the whole night and did not rise at all, and after 1.5 hours at room temperature it doubled. Is it right that I was waiting for the rise?

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Here is my bread today! I liked it very much! Thank you!

[Freesia]

Freesia, oh, I'm so glad that you have such a wonderful bread! And then I was late with the answers, advice. And you did it perfectly well! Smart girl! And as an author, I am pleased

In the refrigerator, the fermentation processes slow down, it's good that they waited for the rise. The starter did an excellent job

Thanks for answering! I will often bake it now!

Please tell me what kind of starter to take, I found a French one and there are two of them (thick and liquid)

[Irina1607]

Irina1607, in my recipe, liquid sourdough (flour-water ratio 1 to 1)

Kava! Please help me with the dough - this is flour 150g, sourdough 50g and water 150g - did you understand correctly, did it move in the picture? by 1 line?

Yes that's right. Flour / water 150 each, sourdough 50!

it turned out delicious bread with a rye flavor)) by morning only the dome wrinkled ...
counted 60% of the prescription (suddenly, who needs it)
200 g rye sourdough (dough)
flour - 330 g (took half-and-half premium and 2nd grade)
water 114 g (1/3 was kefir)
1/3 cup malt spoons
fresh yeast - 3 g
salt - 1/2 tsp
rast oil 1 tbsp. l
honey - 1/2 tbsp. l
spices for bread up to 1 tsp

baked on program 3 (clathronic) 3:40 duration. last proofings before baking 1:40 with one small heap
rose perfectly. and the crumb is well porous))

the only thing that confuses me is some "dryness" of the crumb ... porous, etc., but it tastes like "paper" ... I don't even know how to say it more precisely; (

I am very surprised why kava (the author of the theme) and Alim recommend keeping the brew in a cool place.
after all, the dough is much faster suited precisely in warmth. I prefer very warm places near the battery - approx. 30C. and, in principle, lactic acid bacteria in the sourdough well tolerate temperatures up to 40C.

if the task is to extend the preparation of bread, then yes, you can chill ...

... if the task is to prolong the preparation of bread, then yes, you can chill ...

It can also be chilled when the task is to get a thicker aroma of bread.

Since I often use this recipe, I think I have the right to give my comment.
About the dough.
In a warm place - dough yes, it will come up faster. However, this is not always necessary for a specific flavor of bread.
Long-term fermentation of doughs and sourdoughs give an amazing rich taste to bread.
I will not say that quick doughs (leavens) are bad - they are different. For example, a low-acid sourdough gives a straight milky taste of bread, and a long-lasting one gives it a nutty one. Well, this is in my opinion and taste of course.
At T 27-30 * C, lactic acid bacteria multiply more actively, and yeast slower, for yeast a more comfortable temperature is 10-15 * C. By the way, yeast begins to die in my opinion from 40 * C - I don't remember exactly.
By creating a certain temperature regime, we give a head start to a certain culture in the dough / sourdough. And thereby we determine the future taste of bread

Again, adding a larger amount of yeast, we can also speed up the process, but the taste will also change!
This is what I mean - everyone chooses his own tactics, but the strategy is the basic recipe.

As for me, doughs / sourdoughs of long fermentation are much richer in taste than quick ones. But, of course, you must choose the time for yourself, the main thing is that the family is happy!

At T 27-30 * C, lactic acid bacteria multiply more actively, and yeast more slowly, for yeast a more comfortable temperature is 10-15 * C.

in my opinion, unlikely.
why, then, when baking is turned on, the yeast dough (under-settled) begins to actively rise with a rise in temperature?
I'm talking about saccharomycetes (baker's yeast).
according to my observations, they have the same optimal breeding temperature - approx. 30C, possibly more.

I did not know about a richer aroma with a longer proofing ... I will experiment.
Thank you!

I read it in Ljuda's LJ 🔗 (remove asterisks)

This starter can also be created at normal room temperature of 21C. At this temperature, neither LAB nor wild yeast have any advantages, that is, their populations in the dough leaven develop at approximately the same rate. It is very important that the temperature of the starter is not higher than 27-28C, because at 27C the number of yeast cells in the dough doubles the fastest - every hour. At higher temperatures - 30-35-40C, the yeast is inhibited and begins to die.

She writes this about Calvel's leaven. But in principle, this applies in general to French starter cultures. This is in the magazine itself in different topics about leavens Luda wrote.

there is still an interesting article here (the same with asterisks) 🔗

It turns out I also messed up with degrees - 27 and class for yeast.

But still thick! long fermentation at T = 18-20 * leaven gives simply amazing bread!

[rinishek]

rinishek I wrote everything right! Thank you! : flowers: With this technology, the bread is well-fermented, aromatic, which is facilitated by a long (slow) fermentation in a cool place. The dough undergoes a long fermentation process due to which the taste is rich.

one more question. is it important that only the dough comes up slowly or does it make sense to let the dough stand in a cool place?

no, well, that's too much - oil oil.
Let the dough come slowly, it will accumulate aroma. But bread - according to the usual scheme - kneading, rise from 40 minutes to 1 hour, baking

Check out the recipe for cold proof bread if you're interested. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=176344.0
but there is an accumulation of aroma without dough. I use this recipe in the summer when I don't bake with sourdough.

[rinishek]

rinishek already answered

(remove asterisks)
(same with asterisks)

No need to suffer with asterisks
If the site is not caught in spam, it will appear fine. And if it is not shown, then point 11 prohibits putting asterisks Forum rules.
I removed the asterisks from your message - everything is displayed normally

[kava]

kava, I liked this bread in the photographs so much that I also decided to bake it - this is my first sourdough (semi-finished rye product from Viki), baked a small portion (from page 5) without a saucepan on a hot pan.

Probably, I put too much flour - there is no such airiness, but I liked the taste, it reminds "Riga" from the distant 70s ...

And now the question:

Long-term fermentation of doughs and sourdoughs give an amazing rich taste to bread.
...
As for me, long-fermented doughs / starters are much richer in taste than fast ones.

rinishek I wrote everything right! Thank you! : flowers: With this technology, the bread is well-fermented, aromatic, which is facilitated by a long (slow) fermentation in a cool place. The dough undergoes a long fermentation process due to which the taste is rich.

How to determine the readiness of the dough during prolonged fermentation? It is difficult to focus only on the time interval - everyone has different home conditions and ingredients. Probably, there is such a state of dough when you can say - everything, dough is ready? (Well, for example, like increasing a loaf by 2 times during proofing). Please share ...
Thank you very much for the recipe, I really want to bake the same "puffy" and nostril ...

[Kras-Vlas]

Kras-Vlas, thanks for the photo report! The crumb structure is very good.If you want larger holes, try putting in a little less flour and then very carefully shape the loaf (so as not to release all the air). Judging by the loaf, it has not grown very much (it may have stood a little, because if it was not enough, it breaks the top and makes the crust ugly, and if it does, then the loaf does not rise very much and the cuts do not open completely).

At the expense of the duration of the fermentation of the dough, I repeat - 8-12 hours at a temperature of 5-10 degrees. In terms of volume, it increases by 2-2.5 times and becomes such an entire "bubble-like" mass. Stretching by "threads" when interfered with or laid out. I hope I explained it clearly. If during the specified time the mass has not yet increased much and has bubbled, then I transfer it to a warmer place for an hour or two (if there is time)

[kava]

Thank you, kava, everything is very clear. Dough, it seems, was not good for me (it is cool in the kitchen at night), there was not enough "bubble" in it ... I will definitely try again, many, many, times !!!

[absence]

Hello dear bakers! I'll add a fly in the ointment to your wonderful barrel of honey. In my opinion, sourdough bread implies absence yeast in the test. I will not argue about the dangers or benefits of yeast in bread, but why "fence the garden" with sourdough, if you also add yeast? I bake sourdough bread, in a bread maker, and absolutely yeast-free. The result is delicious and healthy bread. If anyone is interested, I can share the "secrets" of this simple method.

[gangak]

gangak, many on our forum bake on one sourdough without adding yeast. And many add yeast in order to make the process more predictable in time and result. Personally, I am a busy person and I just don't have time to dance with tambourines around one loaf. Therefore, I chose this method for myself. Yes, you can bake absolutely without yeast (I mean store-bought, because yeast is still contained in the sourdough, otherwise it is not sourdough), please, if you have the time and desire. And this particular bread will also turn out great, only the time will be more. In addition, I do not consider it disastrous to use such a scanty amount of yeast. And I do not bake in KhP, but in the oven, because it tastes much better that way. And you can share the secrets of your simple method - that's why the forum exists. Write your personal recipe in a separate topic: mail1: and discuss it with all interested forum users. I think there will be plenty of them

sourdough bread, implies the absence of yeast in the dough

Not certainly in that way. Stacks of virtual pages have already been written about this. Yeast is present in sourdough, because sourdough is a symbiosis of yeast and LAB.
Wild yeast, which is in sourdough, are exactly the same relatives and yeast as industrial.
By the way, the forum is full of recipes for bread without cultural yeast, on one sourdough. And this recipe is with yeast.

It's in the wrong temko, you are adding a fly in the ointment

Py Sy - the addition of pressed yeast - not a "city-dweller" - but a completely conscious formation of a certain taste of bread, because on one yeast - your taste will be, yeast + sourdough - another, but only leaven - the third and completely different from the first two

: sorry: good afternoon.
I am learning to make bread, I have chosen your recipe, and I can’t figure it out with the dough.
Someone writes that they need to go to a warm place, others to a cold one ...
Maybe there is a relevant topic, how to make the dough correctly?

If you put a dough and want to bake bread on the same day, then just let it come up (until it increases by 2-2.5 times - about 2-3 hours depending on the room temperature) and then start the main batch and baking. And if you do not want to bake right away, then knead the dough and put it in the refrigerator (or another cool place) for 8-12 hours. And after this time, start kneading bread and pastries. And so and so it turns out delicious.

Kava, hello! What is your bread maker? I have not yet. I think it's time to buy it at the dacha.

I have a Moulinex OW 3000.This is an old model. But I'm in no hurry to change it. she has been serving me for the eighth year. It is very convenient when there is a separate dough kneading mode and a separate baking mode. When choosing, I would focus on this.

while flipping saliva spilled

[kava]

kava,

please duplicate the photo how to reload from the form. only 1 photo is visible