Delonghi 125 or Panasonic 255?

Alain will go crazy, I still thought and doubted DeLonghi or Panasonic, after the brightest description of your pastries I will buy only DeLonghi. By the way, why did you take it in Kiev? I am also from this city

579 hryvnia. It’s $ 113, I think ... No, don’t. Exactly, 113. Delivered for free. And they even packed the box with the oven in another cardboard box. To avoid scratching the original packaging.

I understand that Alain you took it on the internet, can you post a photo of bread ??? I stopped at DeLonghi. I mean, you are basically x / n happy? And how did the crust come out, worthy ???

And I also forgot to ask if you baked cupcakes, because my husband makes an effort on cupcakes, how does this cotton hang out the dough on the cupcakes ?? Can someone answer me this question who has a DeLonghi 125 ??? People answer me !!

Alen!
Bravo! I even read some excerpts from your "revelation" to my husband!
Congratulations on a wonderful purchase!
Good luck with your experiments! And delicious bread!

I understand that Alain you took it on the internet, can you post a photo of bread ??? I stopped at DeLonghi. I mean, you are basically x / n happy? And how did the crust come out, worthy ???

I looked for this model on the Internet (I always do this). I will not post a photo of the first (baked yesterday) bread - I, my wife, mother, children have already eaten it with morning tea, and even took my father-in-law with my mother-in-law (they live nearby). We'll bake - I'll post it here. The crust is excellent, I am satisfied with the stove, so far there is absolutely nothing to complain about. It is beautiful, functional, everything is thought out to the smallest detail (for example, the top cover is completely removed, which can be washed). Based on the reviews I have unearthed online, the owners are very happy. I have not met mass complaints about low reliability, although people have been using it for more than a year.

I still could not tear off the blade ...

and as for the kolobok - there is a contradiction. On the main page it is written that it MUST be a little sticky, that is, it sticks a little to the finger, but if you pull the finger off, nothing remains on it, and according to the instructions of the forum, I understood that it is recommended that you do not bother

[recommendation]

I still could not tear off the blade ...

and as for the kolobok - there is a contradiction. On the main page it is written that it MUST be a little sticky, that is, it sticks a little to the finger, but if you pull the finger off, nothing remains on it, and according to the instructions of the forum, I understood that it is recommended that you do not bother

No contradictions anywhere. Read the text carefully first. The gingerbread man is just a suggestion on how to control the kneading, and whether it will stick to your fingers or not, whether it will be liquid or dry - you yourself will determine how you personally like it and what property of the crumb of bread you personally prefer - dry or wet ...
These recommendation - as a guide for beginners to bake bread - make your own changes to the bun, or you can even neglect them altogether.

P. S. Such recommendations are not given by any instruction for the bread maker. Therefore, probably many bakers (not all) and "somersault" at the first attempt to bake bread, even if all the ingredients according to the bread maker's recipe are correctly loaded. The instruction published in Japan (and others) does not say how the conditions of other countries (weather, food, etc.) affect the baking of bread. Unfortunately, you will find out about this later when you throw out a lot of defective bread or finally visit our site and come across our recommendations.

Good luck! Do not be afraid to bake bread and bring your own "I" into it!

by the way, somehow it is too cheap ... we have here in the region of 4 thousand

Yes, it's not quite expensive, I also found it for $ 113, and the Panasonic 255 costs from $ 147 to $ 200. e, but for 150 really buy

for a man with a head and hands it is on the shoulder - for sure. It is also important that the Eastern Slavs eat quite a lot of bread. And every day. Therefore, the quality of bread, I am sure, greatly affects health, respectively, for the better or for the worse.

I agree completely!

And about the addictions of the Slavs ...
On one of the links to national bread, I found a story about how long ago Western Europe tried to discourage the Slavs from love for rye and gray bread with bran. But it didn't work out!
And further. In 1970, Luxembourg ranked 1st in the world in the incidence of bowel cancer. The government began to intensively feed the people with bran, pectin, fiber and rye. Luxembourg is now at the very bottom of the cancer list.

I don't remember who said. You are what you eat.

I agree completely!

And about the addictions of the Slavs ...
On one of the links to national bread, I found a story about how long ago Western Europe tried to discourage the Slavs from love for rye and gray bread with bran. But it didn't work out!
And further. In 1970, Luxembourg ranked 1st in the world in the incidence of bowel cancer. The government began to intensively feed the people with bran, pectin, fiber and rye. Luxembourg is now at the very bottom of the cancer list.

I don't remember who said. You are what you eat.

About the fact that Western Europe beat off "love for rye and gray bread with bran" () from the Slavs, I think, is not true. Was she forcing someone to eat puddings or white bread? And we obviously resisted? But this untruth (about bad Europe) for some reason is very popular with some people from the Russian Federation, especially in some periods of the country's life, including now. Eating a large amount of bread was initially dictated by historical peculiarities: cereal farming, etc. As well as the method of heating the home with a heat-accumulating oven, without which the dough will not work, and vice versa, which is extremely convenient for making it. The French live off wine and cheese, cook food on an open fire - the climate and soil are different. The British heated their homes with fireplaces - because a fireplace is the most suitable way of heating in a very high humidity climate. But baking bread on it, and even preparing the dough in such a room, is extremely difficult. Therefore, puddings were common among them. Europe is partly fishermen, partly hunters, since agriculture is difficult due to poor soil and forests. Therefore - game, unleavened cakes. And the Slavs - yeast bread. Selyavi. There was nothing bad in this before. BUT! In connection with the development and chemicalization of agriculture, we consume REFINED PRODUCTS (and white flour bread) in large quantities, and therefore even a small content of chemicals in them sooner or later hits our health, primarily the intestines, pancreas, liver, where the concentration of chemicals is constantly high. Therefore, as a counterbalance to this, bread needs natural sorbents, absorbers, of which coarse grain fiber is perhaps one of the most important. Due to the fact that it is inexpensive (it is enough just to grind cereals without weeding out the so-called premium flour), it can be consumed regularly, several times a day, continuously cleansing the body.

I bought Delonghi 125, baked my first bread yesterday, it turned out super. I tried to upload a photo, something does not work, follow. time

Hello dear bakers! X / n is my blue dream for over 10 years. Despite all my desire, somehow it did not grow together. But then the other day my husband felt it and gave the go-ahead for a purchase. For three days I have not climbed out of your wonderful site, studied. Today, under the pressure of my husband (tired of waiting), I decided to buy Panas-255. A fickle search on the websites of online stores led to disappointment - cheap (4500-4700 rubles) receipts only a week later, and where they received 5300 and more. And the husband has a psychological barrier - 5000 rubles. on x / p with delivery and not a penny more. I'm in a trance, but my husband got down to business and found 2 stores.I called on the first-delivery on Saturday, but made up my mind and ordered. Then I called the second, delivery tomorrow and for 100 rubles. cheaper and I ordered again. The first order, of course, was canceled. Now I'm waiting, I studied the instructions, your advice, I chose a recipe. And wait until tomorrow evening

[IMPORTANT FOR OWNERS OF DeLonghi and other programmable stoves]

I bought Delonghi 125, baked my first bread yesterday, it turned out super. I tried to upload a photo, something does not work, follow. time

Congratulations! The stove is cool! Well, I can't find fault with anything! I found out exactly by the barcodes on the packaging - it is made in Italy. Everything is sound, strong, beautiful, high quality, functional. I am especially pleased with the possibility of programming or changing the program during operation. This is exactly what I wanted - the ability to fully control the process, "design" YOUR technology, and then - programming the stove and use. Today I deliberately put yeast instead of 1.5 tsp. only 1 tsp. 800 grams of flour, and half the sugar. But he put peeled seeds, quite a lot. It is clear that the dough rose badly. Well, he took it and quietly added time in the program for raising the dough for as much as an hour. And everything is super! Happened. Now bread is baked on the machine almost every night, fresh in the morning. Sometimes we bake in the evenings. We distribute to relatives (live nearby). This is a cool thing, and it takes almost no time. Weighed, poured, poured, poked the buttons a couple of times - and that's it. Now we are collecting recipes, ingredients to diversify the whole thing and make bread more useful. Tomorrow comes a neat multi-layered paper bag of wheat flour (so far of the highest grade), I no longer want to mess with the bags. Then - a line for rye flour, then we will get molasses, bran. The immediate goal is good rye bread.
IMPORTANT FOR OWNERS OF DeLonghi and other programmable stoves: Feel free to experiment and be sure to write down the result! Then you can correct the program exactly for YOUR TASTE and desires, for YOUR RECIPE! Is the dough not growing? Try adding time to get up. Is the dough pale when baking? Add time for baking, for example in the "Oven" mode (mode # 10). Does the dough grow quickly? Adjust the deboning time, etc.
I don't want to say anything bad about Panasonic - a stove deservedly loved by many. But Delonghi gives both the freedom of creativity and the flawless operation of automation, when there is no time to be creative. It is precisely the creativity that Panasonic lacks. I think that in the next new model they simply have to do something, otherwise ...
PS. It was accidentally established by irrepressible and, to put it mildly, careless experiments: you can bake an excellent giant loaf of bread weighing 1.7 kg (weighed with electronic scales, the exact weight is 1692 grams !!!) The instruction says that like 1.25 kg - for 125S - the maximum !!! But the bread was kneaded and baked perfectly, of course, it grew wow, spread a little to the sides and slightly rested its top on the dispenser - but this did not interfere and did not harm at all either the oven (the dough did not crawl anywhere) or the bread. The shape is beautiful, the crumb is moderately dense, baked, the crust is cool, the taste is excellent - in short, everything is super! I think that such an experiment "on the verge" is possible only with very good flour, which gives an elastic, non-spreading dough, with the correct ratio of ingredients and correctly selected modes. Of course, there is no need to bake such large bread in a bread maker. Today classic bread was baked with the addition of sweet corn (a third of a glass) and peeled seeds - also a third of a glass. The taste, the smell is simply excellent. It is a pity that the corn has become "invisible", I wanted yellow blotches, but nothing. I still can't take a picture of the products, I forget, even though they have baked as many as 6 loaves of bread (different) in these two or three days ... As soon as it has stood for 10-15 minutes, I immediately cut it exactly in half to see, evenly whether it is mixed and baked inside ... All breads are exceptionally successful - taste, shape and color. stove - hip-hip - Hurray!

Now I'm waiting, I studied the instructions, your advice, I chose a recipe.And wait until tomorrow evening

Well, nothing, until the evening is not 10 years. Very good choice, good luck!
A little advice. The first recipe should be the simplest one.

[Not fast]

Well, nothing, until the evening is not 10 years. Very good choice, good luck!
A little advice. The first recipe should be the simplest one.

I'll add it myself. Simple and Not fast wheat bread.
And the yeast is less, and more luxuriant, and tastier, and healthier, and more!

Well, everything, now just take it into your ranks, they brought a beauty! Now it will heat up and we will bake.
Andreevna, Uncle Sam thanks for the advice! I will do everything that way!

Hello everyone! Please accept me into your wonderful company - I was presented with this wonderful unit (P-255) for my birthday. Today I tried it for the first time - the wheat bread with raisins turned out great!
But I have a question for connoisseurs - if the recipes on this site indicate the "Italian bread" baking program, what should you choose on the R-255? There is no such, there is only French ...

I understand that this is practically the same thing.
True, I have Delonghi and there is no Italian

[Dance]

The baking time of French bread is 6 hours, and Italian bread is 4 hours 30 minutes. There is sugar in Italian.
DanceFrench is also very good.

Italian pitch on a standard (4 hour) program.

And French is better.
At the forum there was a vote "the most favorite bread at home", the French won by a wide margin.

Thank you all for your answers! Even today I tried to bake rye on kvass with caraway seeds - it turned out very tasty and beautiful, very evenly baked.

I completely agree with you Alen Delonghi, the stove is excellent pah-pah-pah, after baking, I also hasten to cut it in half, impatient
Relatives for some reason believe that the class. the bread turns out to be a little salty, although I put 2 tsp according to the recipe. salt, today I'm trying to bake with 1 tsp, I don’t know what will come out while the bread is in the oven, and I added a little ground oatmeal + seeds

I completely agree with you Alen Delonghi, the stove is excellent pah-pah-pah, after baking, I also hasten to cut it in half, impatient
Relatives for some reason think that the class. the bread turns out to be a little salty, although I put 2 tsp according to the recipe. salt, today I'm trying to bake with 1 tsp, I don’t know what will come out while the bread is in the oven, and I added a little ground oatmeal + seeds

The taste of "salinity" can depend on the flour, on the hardness of the water, and on the salt itself. Also, the bread can be too salty if you used margarine (light butter). It is almost always salted. It can also depend on the taste of specific people.
The oven manual states that salt is essential for the proper development of yeast. This is absolutely true. The yeast cell is alive. She herself maintains a certain concentration of salt within herself, absorbing or giving water to the nutrient medium (dough). If there is not enough salt outside the cell (in the test), the cell will absorb water in order to adjust the salt concentration ("diluting" it with water) inside itself to the concentration "outside". On the contrary, if there is a lot of salt in the dough, then the cell "shrivels", as it will give up the "excess" water from itself so that the concentration of salt in the cell becomes equal to the concentration in the dough. Both the one and the other situation will not allow the yeast to develop optimally. Therefore, by significantly changing the amount of kitchen salt in a recipe, you run the risk of getting low-quality bread. Try adding a little more sugar to the bread (5-10 grams is 1-2 teaspoons), this will slightly "mask" the saltiness. But mineral salts are always present both in flour and in water, therefore, in principle, you can do without kitchen salt - the yeast will "survive". But the yeast rate in this case will need to be increased. How much? Try it! The site has a recipe completely without salt, I met somewhere. Good luck!

The oven manual states that salt is essential for the proper development of yeast. This is absolutely true. The yeast cell is alive.She herself maintains a certain concentration of salt within herself, absorbing or giving water to the nutrient medium (dough). If there is not enough salt outside the cell (in the test), the cell will absorb water in order to adjust the salt concentration ("diluting" it with water) inside itself to the concentration "outside". On the contrary, if there is a lot of salt in the dough, then the cell "shrivels", since it will give up the "excess" water from itself so that the concentration of salt in the cell becomes equal to the concentration in the dough.

In general, inanimate objects are also remarkably involved in this regulation. This phenomenon - equalization of liquid concentrations behind a semi-permeable shell - is called "osmosis", as opposed to "reverse osmosis" used in water purification.
And living objects are glorious precisely for the ability of homeostasis, for maintaining the constancy of the internal environment with changes in the external.
I will not say where, here or on ichbt, the opposite was true - salt is added to inhibit the development of yeast. After all, many leavens are made without salt, which would not be the case if salt was needed for yeast.

But experiments have to be done.

[The difference is that the membrane of a living cell can regulate, change the degree and type of permeability, by adjusting polarization and other parameters.]

In general, inanimate objects are also remarkably involved in this regulation. This phenomenon - the equalization of liquid concentrations behind a semi-permeable shell - is called "osmosis", as opposed to "reverse osmosis" used in water purification.
And living objects are glorious precisely for the ability of homeostasis, for maintaining the constancy of the internal environment with changes in the external.
I will not say where, here or on ichbt, the opposite was true - salt is added to inhibit the development of yeast. Indeed, many leavens are made without salt, which would not be the case if salt for yeast was needed.

But experiments have to be done.

Yes, indeed, there are semipermeable membranes that concentrate on one side any impurities from the solution. They are modeled after a living cell. But they are not alive. The difference is that the membrane of a living cell can regulate, change the degree and type of permeability, by adjusting polarization and other parameters.... But the solutions that are poured in, for example, intravenously, must be made such that they correspond to the physiological concentration of a similar substance in the cell, so as not to make it "work" again, but to fight the disease. A person is injected intravenously with the so-called physiological solution (0.9% NaCl solution in water), 5% glucose solution, etc. It is interesting that during the Great Patriotic War, the wounded, who had lost a lot of blood, were poured into vessels, along with other blood substituting fluids, purified sea water called "Babsky's AM-4 solution." The fact is that sea water is very similar to the liquid part of the blood (plasma) of mammals and humans in the content of sodium, potassium, and calcium salts. Animals, getting out in the process of evolution from the sea to land, carried it with them in their tissues, vessels, retained the sea water they need for life. We left the sea with the land animals, and the salty sea water flows in our veins. These solutions are called isotonic, the concentration of substances in them corresponds to the concentration in living cells. Solutions with a lower concentration are called hypotonic. And with more - hypertensive. Both the first and the second - inhibit the vital activity of a living cell, including yeast cells. therefore to begin with, you should stick to exactly the amount of salt that the manufacturers of bread machines advise. Theoretically, it is possible to bake without salt, because there are mineral salts in flour and water. Since the yeast will weaken from this, you need to add a little more of it (yeast), otherwise the crumb will be denser than usual, it will rise worse. And the fact is that salt affects the "elasticity" of gluten, and it is optimal (elasticity) at a certain salt concentration. You can try experimenting or reading on the net. Good luck!

I make bread only with milk and with the addition of olive oil, most likely a matter of taste

try any recipe without salt.I assure you, the result will be very worthy! I tried wheat on milk, just forgot about salt - as a result, the bread tasted very much like sandwich buns

try any recipe without salt. I assure you, the result will be very worthy! I tried wheat on milk, just forgot about salt - as a result, the bread tasted very much like sandwich buns

Milk contains a lot of salts, especially calcium. Taste the milk froth that has dried on the side of the pan. She is sweet salty.

oh, I don't like foam
but bread with milk and kefir is our constant recipe, only his family favors (although personally I love Darnitsky) ...
but in general, I think that sugar can be "forgotten", and salt - the main thing is to put flour !!!

It is interesting that during the Great Patriotic War, the wounded, who had lost a lot of blood, were poured into vessels, along with other blood substituting fluids, purified sea water called "Babsky's AM-4 solution." The fact is that sea water is very similar to the liquid part of the blood (plasma) of mammals and humans in the content of sodium, potassium, and calcium salts. Animals, getting out in the process of evolution from the sea to land, carried it with them in their tissues, vessels, retained the sea water they need for life. We left the sea with the land animals, and the salty sea water flows in our veins.

I read it for a long time, and this summer I saw clean seawater in bottles in a Paris store. They cook on it, and not only fish. It is interesting to try to bake bread on it.
In Sochi, for a long time (it is a pity that not for long), drinking sea water was released. The ratio of sea to fresh water is 1:43.

In Sochi, for a long time (it is a pity that not for long), drinking sea water was released. The ratio of sea to fresh water is 1:43.

I remember that the signs of "sea wolves" were forbidden to drink only sea water, and later it was scientifically proven - an excess of potassium led to madness. So you need to know when to stop

I remember that the signs of "sea wolves" were forbidden to drink only sea water, and later it was scientifically proven - an excess of potassium led to madness. So you need to know when to stop

Measure is needed in everything!
Thor Heyerdahl in his books "Traveling to the Kon-tiki" and "Three Sisters" tells about his experience of drinking sea water. Seems like a mug a day. And also the story of the painters who painted the ships inside with some nasty stuff. Only those who drank sea water every day survived.

About salt - food and sea, beautiful, romantic and quite literately written here: 🔗 .

About salt - food and sea, beautiful, romantic and quite literately written here: 🔗 .

We definitely have different ideas about "competently".

For me, the expression "hydroelectric energy in the cell of the body" is an absolutely illiterate expression.

And the concept of "providing vital functions" with a certain element means that without this element these functions are not provided. Which conflicts with the life of most mammals away from the sea.

Well, in general, you can amend each paragraph there.

1) Nature is not a better chemist than man. The composition of the salt varies with location, so it is not possible to create a reference crystal.

2) From the beginning of whose life was salt used? Most animals and all people cannot drink only sea water. And the plants in it live only those who could adapt.

3) What pieces do the "salt molecules" burst into? For sodium and chlorine? Or did you mean the crystalline structure, from which nothing remains after dissolution?

4) Firstly, this scientist had not just seawater, but a nutrient solution that was regularly changing.
Secondly,

Long-term experience of Muscovites has shown that sodium chloride, which is the main component of the solution, perfectly replaces table salt of the Extra brand, and tap water can be used.

This is from the experience of aquarists. But of course, 12 more components are added there, since fish are accustomed to just such a composition.

5) Lack of elements is not equal to lack of sea salt.

6) I suspect that acid-base theory is negative about sour fruits. Most of them.

7) By the way, infections are also cells. And for some reason there is no question of their well-being. see next paragraph.

8) Neutralizes toxins (strong doubts) and harmful bacteria (she herself understands which bacteria are useful, which are harmful. Yeast, for example, is useful, therefore does not touch).

9) It is interesting to know the list of these countries that do not have arthritis. ("I'll give up everything, I'll go to Uryupinsk")

We definitely have different ideas about "competently".

Please note that I described the article as "reasonably literate" but not "completely literate." In any case, the article is not intended for biochemists and other botanists-biologists. If there is little assessment of the article as "sufficiently competent", then pay attention to 1 more characteristic. I said that the article was written "romantically". I hoped that this proposal to treat the article condescendingly would be understood. And thirdly, I found an article on the Internet 1 minute before I wrote a post about it - I am not its author ...

But about your expression that "Nature is not a better chemist than man" ... You put man, a scanty (and it is not yet clear, the best) part of the boundless Nature, higher than it ??? This is illogical, to say the least. I cannot agree with this.

But about your expression that "Nature is not a better chemist than man" ... You put man, a scanty (and it is not yet clear, the best) part of the boundless Nature, higher than it ??? This is illogical, to say the least. I cannot agree with this.

I'll bet. Just as the rabies virus knocks down an elephant, so the tiny, but intelligent part is able to control a large, but not intelligent part.
It is not sea water that was created to fully satisfy the need for it, but man has retained from his ancestors the ability to use it a little.

And this is even logical - a huge nature must have a tip somewhere

Nature does nothing for man, man only finds in nature that which can somehow be used for him. Only a person does something for a person.

We digress, of course, from the topic, but I can't help but express my opinion! man is the same nature! it was not his hands that preserved salt in the human body! but the creations of human hands, the fruits of civilization - this is terrible for nature! I don’t think nature really likes its management! and especially its pollution (which a person does just fine!). nature will give us back! by the way, it already gives!

we digress, of course, from the topic,

Created a sequel there
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=99&topic=1619.0

Stumbled upon this site by accident. I read it and decided to buy a bread machine. Bought Delonghi BDM 125S.

First, they read on this site and decided to take Panas. But after your amazing post, we thought about it and decided to take Delonge. No sooner said than done. There were no scales - the first bread was baked in "cups". Classic white turned out great. With cinnamon and dried fruit, it also worked out well. Today they baked in milk (we have already bought Kamry electronic scales for 105 hryvnias.
Under standard conditions, 1.25 kg with a maximum crust did not rise very much - he needed to see him more time to rise, and the milk probably turned out to be not very warm. But still very tasty! We will experiment further, thank you! By the way, what proportions do you set for standard bread with milk, or do you add time to the approach?

I mostly always bake with milk, you can add a little time to the rise, if it's hard to rise, I add time since I bake with sourdough, respectively, and more time is required

I read it for a long time, and this summer I saw clean seawater in bottles in a Paris store. They cook on it, and not only fish. It is interesting to try to bake bread on it.
In Sochi, for a long time (it is a pity that not for long), drinking sea water was released.The ratio of sea to fresh water is 1:43.

Nothing prevents you from replacing ordinary salt with sea salt. I've been doing this for a long time. For 1.5 years now I have not had regular salt in my house. And I also bought 3 interesting books about bread. So in one it is written that bread can be baked on mineral water. Have you tried?

Mineral water makes excellent bread, and I sometimes mix milk with mineral water. I use any, except "Essentuki No. 17" (very salty). Basically, we drink # 4, and the bread is baked on it, respectively. It is better to take natural from wells. Any other "mineral water" is made from tap water, by purifying it to the state of H2O and artificially filling it with mineral salts. It is not dangerous, but it is "dead" water - tasteless and odorless.

People, I read the instructions to Delongy and Panasonic, and that's what amazed me. If I understood correctly, Delongy kneads the dough 2 times, rolls it 2 times, fits the dough three times, and then bakes.
And in Panasonic, if you follow the table, everything happens in one stage - one kneading, one rise, then baking. Is it so?

Who has Panassonik, clarify!
Maybe the instructions for Panasonic give the total time for each option, but in fact the dough is kneaded in several stages, as in Delongy?

First, they read on this site and decided to take Panas. But after your amazing post, we thought about it and decided to take Delonge. No sooner said than done. There were no scales - the first bread was baked in "cups". Classic white turned out great. With cinnamon and dried fruit, it turned out well too. Today they baked in milk (we have already bought Kamry electronic scales for 105 hryvnias.
Under standard conditions, 1.25 kg with a maximum crust did not rise very much - he needed to see him more time to rise, and the milk probably turned out to be not very warm. But still very tasty! We will experiment further, thank you! By the way, what proportions do you set for standard bread with milk, or do you add time to the approach?

First, congratulations on Delonghi! Now I am 200% sure that this is the best option for a bread machine. Before, I was only 100% sure ... And with weights - absolutely the right decision! And as for the fact that 1.25 kg rose a little less than expected, then you have identified the reason correctly: the main condition is that the milk is not cold, that is, not from the refrigerator! While it warms up (and in fact it takes a whole 1/3 of the mass of the dough) - it takes time! Here is the dough and did not have time to come up magnificently. All ingredients should be at room temperature. Then everything will be OK with the standard recipe! Or use your own program, where the first step is to program the temperature equalization of the components. Good luck! Try onion bread. Simple and interesting taste.

People, I read the instructions to Delongy and Panasonic, and that's what amazed me. If I understood correctly, Delongy kneads the dough 2 times, rolls it 2 times, fits the dough three times, and then bakes.
And in Panasonic, if you follow the table, everything happens in one stage - one kneading, one rise, then baking. Is it so?

Who has Panassonik, clarify!
Maybe the instructions for Panasonic give the total time for each option, but in fact the dough is kneaded in several stages, as in Delongy?

It seems that "Panasonic" decided to save paper. Or be afraid of prom. espionage.
My 255 does everything in several stages. I will not say the exact amount of time for each of them, for him it depends on the temperature in the kitchen and on the type of program.
The main thing is to knead and roll several times, but to make everything turn out deliciously!

People, I read the instructions to Delongy and Panasonic, and that's what amazed me. If I understood correctly, Delongy kneads the dough 2 times, rolls it 2 times, fits the dough three times, and then bakes.
And in Panasonic, if you follow the table, everything happens in one stage - one kneading, one rise, then baking. Is it so?

Who has Panassonik, clarify!
Maybe the instructions for Panasonic give the total time for each option, but in fact the dough is kneaded in several stages, as in Delongy?

Watch the process and you will understand that Panasonic does a few workouts before baking. Not crumpled only on the rye program.

It seems that "Panasonic" decided to save paper. Or be afraid of prom. espionage.
My 255 does everything in several stages. I will not say the exact amount of time for each of them, for him it depends on the temperature in the kitchen and on the type of program.
The main thing is to knead and roll several times, but to make everything turn out deliciously!

Does this mean that if it is cold in the kitchen, Panasonic will bake bread for two days? I'm sure Panasonic's time is hardcoded. Therefore (see for yourself) on the same program it will give the same baking time, even if you put the oven on a cold balcony. This is enough for standard situations! Another thing is that very often situations are non-standard ...

But with Delonghi BDM 125S, the time of EACH STAGE can be varied by programming. Within a very wide range, from 0 seconds to 99 minutes at almost every stage. The advertisement says that you can get 76 baking modes. Advertising is wrong, there are more options, an incredibly huge number of them. The temperature can also be varied. But now only within certain, rather narrow (at first glance) limits, depending on the chosen basic program. Why is this done? In order to reduce the likelihood of user error. For example, the rising temperature of the dough can be selected from only 2 values: either 30 degrees or 35 degrees. Why? Because within these limits is the optimum temperature for the development of yeast cells, the lower limit for sweet dough, for example, and the upper one for rye. Below 30 degrees, yeast develops extremely slowly and tasteless (the dough will "peroxide"). And at a temperature of 36-37 degrees, it is not yeast that grows best, but bacteria that are pathogenic for humans! Well, if it was possible to make the temperature, for example, 45 degrees, then this would lead to the death of the yeast. And now - about the temperature of the dough when baking in the Delonghi 125S oven. You can only select certain values, namely: 105, 110, 115 and 125 degrees Celsius. Why? Because if the temperature is 100 degrees, the dough will just boil. If it is 140 degrees, it will simply char. If you ask why the temperature in a gas stove is much higher, up to 220-240 degrees, then I will answer: the oven thermometer measures the temperature NOT TEST, but air. In the Delonghi bread maker, a microcomputer that controls the entire process measures the temperature at remote points, which during development was commensurate with the temperature of the dough (direct measurement), and even with the rate of temperature rise in the dough. By applying such measures, the Delonghi developers have dramatically reduced the number of errors and possible troubles, but left enormous scope for creative control of the process. I do not want to say anything bad about Panasonic. They have good TVs, but Italians do not know how to make TVs, they are all engaged in nonsense, bread makers and coffee makers! Just kidding.

I don’t know, I’ve already poured milk from the refrigerator three times, plus not the levure, but the moment - the rise is the same, only it is denser (the bubbles are much smaller) and tastier - in 2 days they ate three kilogram loaves, and ate one one or two days

I don’t know, I’ve already poured milk from the refrigerator three times, plus not the levure, but the moment - the rise is the same, only it is denser (the bubbles are much smaller) and tastier - in 2 days they ate three kilogram loaves, and ate one or two days

If the yeast is the same, the program is the same, the milk is the same, but in the first version the milk is at room temperature, and in the second - from the refrigerator, then in Delonghi 125S the rise of the dough will be different. And Panasonic, it seems, ALWAYS turns on (even when not needed) the stage of equalizing the temperature of the ingredients before kneading. At the Italian stove, kneading will start immediately (if without a timer) in most cases. And to equalize the temperature, there is either a special standard program, or you can include this stage in your program.