Sourdough bread in the oven

Uncle grain grower-technologist, advised two ways to clean grain from chemicals at home ... not 100%, but still the number is reduced:
* Soaking in an average solution of potassium permanganate at 40 degrees for 8 hours (the temperature must be maintained);
* Several times pour boiling water over the grain at 65 degrees and then with a weak solution of potassium permanganate for 3-4 hours at any temperature ...
In the first case, the beneficial microflora inside the grain practically does not change, but the outer part is washed out with chemicals and fungi and something useful ...
In the second case, there is a loss of B vitamins and a little microflora, for which the chemicals are washed out better.

Ira, duck, after all, the grain will not sprout after 85 degrees, and in the sprouts are the same vitamins of group B ...

Ira, duck, after all, the grain will not sprout after 85 degrees, and in the sprouts are the same vitamins of group B ...

Sorry 65, but I can argue a little I poured 70-75 degrees and not all grains germinated, such as the strongest ... recently I only poured boiling water (probably under 85-90), but I took good grain, 75% sprouted ...
In general, it is difficult for me to take grain from myself so that the germination power is good ... That is, in order to take a kilogram and everything sprouted, I took the sowing from my uncle, but this one is good, but he is "greedy", the one that is for sale please, and that what does not give for sowing

So today I called "uncle the grain grower" to clarify the germination of grain, etc.
The thing is, they are sprouting malt, they recently bought equipment ... well ... the information is as follows:
* You can soak in potassium permanganate, but for every fireman you need, because there, in addition to chemicals, a bunch of pathogenic organisms (the most acceptable option is a weak pink solution for 8 hours);
* If the grains are germinated for children from 3 to 12 years old and will be consumed raw, then it is necessary to douse them several times with boiling water at 85 degrees and soak them in potassium permanganate ... At the same time, many grains will not germinate, but those that germinate will not harm;
In general, when soaking in water, water draws out these very chemicals from the grain, especially if you wash the grain during germination every 4-6 hours, moreover, after germination, we grind it in a blender, and volatile chemicals go into the air, so I think you can take any grain ... the main thing is not to GMO, because there is one in our markets

Whatever one may say, but through the leaven-dough everything tastes better than directly into the dough.

Yes, girls ... lately I have to pass the bran through the sourdough - then they are not felt in the bread at all (there is no such dryness, crumbs), but they are there (do you see a gopher? No? But he is! "

Yes, girls ... lately I have to take bran through the sourdough

Please tell us how you do it? Do you get all the bran sourdough? Or do you divide it somehow? Somehow it didn't fit in my head?

Please tell us how you do it? Do you get all the bran sourdough? Or do you divide it somehow? Somehow it didn't fit in my head?

Natalie, take some 20 grams of your starter and feed it whatever you want. Since January, a grape plant has been living with me, I feed it with rye flour before baking rye bread, and I fed it with whole grain. The latter very quickly peroxides, behind it an eye and an eye is needed. I think the bran will also be more nimble than regular bread flour.

for sure ... she grows like mad on bran :)))

postpone 1st tbsp. l. (or a tea house, or how much you leave "for divorce" - that is, feed it like a regular top dressing), the rest - you feed it with flour and bran, bringing it to the amount you need for bread ...well, here, for example, on simple bread in this thread Zest advises taking 1 tbsp. l. starter cultures + 200g. water + 200 gr. flour ... and do it, replace some of the flour with bran.

himichka
Thank you for quick answer. I haven't added anything to the bread yet. I learned to bake in the oven for now - so that it was with a normal crust. Now it seems to work. I would like to experiment with the recipe. The bran is there. I'll try it through the leaven.

well, here)) While limping here, all the questions have already been answered. And most importantly, what is right

As far as I have read, bran in general is a breeding ground for all kinds of microorganisms, if you introduce the bran directly into the dough, then there is a high probability of infecting the bread with all sorts of sores like potato disease. The leaven disinfects the bran and improves the taste of the bread.
For me, my favorite option is the introduction of bran along with coarse flour through a dough.

Girls, here I inserted a new variation of bread with rye and whole grain flour https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=11837.0, answer number 2. Bran will perfectly fit into it. You can subtract a small amount of rye or whole grain flour and replace it with bran.

Contrary to all expectations, it turned out pretty well. : nyam: In any case, in appearance.



Still crackles. I'll cut it tomorrow.

Here is my Borodinsky.

[Kseny]

Kseny ! There is somewhere in this thread, but I can repeat it so as not to dig for a long time. Many points by eye.
Welding: 3 table. spoons of malt + 3 tablespoons. Brew spoons of rye flour with almost boiling water, 2 tablespoons there. tablespoons of oil, 2 tsp. tablespoons of salt and 2 tablespoons. tablespoons of sugar (or one honey). I cool it with cold dark beer 180 ml. Rye sourdough (MK) 2-3 measuring cups, rye flour 350 g, dried cranberries, pine nuts and pistachios 2 each. Kneading, proofing for 2 hours, baking.

Oddly enough, the bread doesn't even smell like chicken. Ate in 1 day. In the middle, a very pretty one came out





So the bouillon experience turned out to be quite successful.

I also baked bread today according to the recipe from the first page, albeit with minor changes. in general and in general, everything turned out fine, but the holes are all the same - small, the bread crumbles and I lack some "rubberiness" of the crumb. Does anyone know how to achieve this? I will be grateful for the recipe or link

[victosh]

victosh
Please tell us about your changes in the recipe
There should not be very small holes in it, and even more so - excessive crumbs.

If you want to bake "rubbery" bread with minimal labor costs, then try making Bread without kneading
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=4505.0

[victosh]

victosh
Please tell us about your changes in the recipe
There should not be very small holes in it, and even more so - excessive crumbs.

If you want to bake "rubbery" bread with minimal labor costs, then try making Bread without kneading
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=4505.0

Zest, first of all thanks for your reaction. I took 200 gr. whole grain and unclarified wheat - we call it village and 50 gr. oat bran. Approximately as you recommended. It took 2 corks (from a mineral bottle) more water than indicated in the recipe. Salt -2 tsp ordinary (I do not have x / n). All. The bread turned out to be rather dark, slightly undersalted, I already wrote about the rest. In short, I didn't get anything like that wonderful photo from the first page. I think I even felt his taste and smell ... In short, disappointment of the first degree. By the way, I once baked "without kneading" and what I got is exactly like him. Well, nothing, until next Friday there is time to recover from failure and find a recipe for the next experiment.

mistake - each flour is 100 in total 200 is shorter than the quantity according to the recipe

now I completely confused myself. the last option for today: dough as in the recipe, and in the dough-200 + 200 + 50 bran. I'm 100% sure about bran!

[victosh]

victosh

that's for sure, both myself and me were confused. In any case, judging by the last option, I can only assume one thing - you kneaded too dense dough, which did not have enough water. Brans absorb too much moisture, and judging by the last option, you added not simple baking flour to the dough, but those varieties that draw in a large amount of liquid ... This is the correct ratio of flour to water and was violated. It is necessary not only to focus on the weight of the ingredients, but also on the consistency. The photo shows that I almost pour the dough on the molding table.
And when molding, it is important to act quickly and accurately - not to squeeze air bubbles out of the dough.

In bread Without kneading, you also lacked "rubberiness"? And the bread baked according to my recipe was similar to that Bread without kneading, which was poured from you? Am I getting it right?

If so, then I dare give you a little advice, if you don't mind. Don't jump from recipe to recipe. Unfortunately, neither the bread from this topic, nor the Bread without kneading has turned out right for you.You need to dwell on one recipe you like, strictly follow it (so far without your changes) and keep filling your hand until it works out as it should ...

I would do just that

[victosh,]

victosh, you got a completely different bread, and not the one that was in the recipe. Judging by your additions, you had to add a decent amount of water to get the more or less expected result, since both whole wheat flour and bran require more moisture. You just came up with a new bread recipe.

[victosh]

victosh

here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=11837.0 it is very clearly seen in the photo how replacing flour ONLY in a dough affects the structure of the crumb. And you have replaced almost ALL the flour in the dough.
It is not at all surprising that your bread came out in no way similar to the one in my photo - we bake according to DIFFERENT recipes.

I baked again today, that's what happened. Made entirely on flour of 2 grades.

Zest and Joy, thanks for your helpfulness and advice, some of which I will definitely take note of. My carelessness is ruining me. But I will work on it. I would like to completely avoid or at least minimize wheat bakery, in short, white flour. Do you think this is possible in relation to your recipe?

So I made 2 grades on flour, fed the sourdough with rye + 2 grade, so it turned out not the same as in Raisin. You change flour, respectively, you get a different bread, I somehow got it like this

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9229.180

and he is dark in the photo, in life it is lighter.

[suslja5004]

Girls, give me some advice: today I mixed 20 g of sourdough with 200 ml of water and 100 g each of rye and bread flour for tomorrow's bread. And all would be fine, but ... it was all the leaven. Tell me, if tomorrow I take a little from this sourdough and continue to feed and soften, then I will save my sourdough or not, and now m: will she have to grow it again?

suslja5004, how pretty, and the crust is so thin and smoother. I still don't always get this on rye.
victosh, the color in the photo may differ from the real color (this is firstly), flour, humidity, temperature conditions and starter cultures are different for everyone (this is secondly). I have been baking for more than a year, from this time about 9 months - with sourdough, I can no longer call myself a beginner, but all the same, all breads differ from each other, even if they are baked strictly according to the same recipe. It is very important not to rush from recipe to recipe, each time being disappointed with the result, but to try to do the work of eliminating errors on one recipe. But this is from personal experience. Believe me, if you really want it, then everything will definitely work out (I know, girls won't let you lie about how long I went to my sourdough bread)

[kava]

kava we have a hard worker, she had to work, that's for sure.
And about the sourdough, I think so, you fed it 1:20, so take a little tomorrow and feed 1: 2, I think so ... but you still need to ask Iziuminka or Vika.I just did it somehow, fed 1:20 to increase the gap between feeds.

[suslja]

Thank you suslja, you have given me hope, otherwise I am glad that today I have such bread,




decided to bake another one tomorrow as a gift, but introduce rye through the dough and so "kneaded", and now she was scared that I would be left without a Frenchwoman

[kava]

kava, believe me, there is no cause for concern. To convert wheat leaven into rye just at a time, but back and so that exactly without losses - for 3 times when feeding 1: 1: 1, that is, we take as much as there is, let's say 20 gr. add 20 gr. water and 20 gr. wheat flour, as will double, again the same. How much yeast you take = the same amount of water and flour. Then again. So you will completely restore it to wheat. Checked. Good luck!

[Viki]

how good that Viki does not sleep at night, we can say that it saved the leaven kava

Indeed, for such a short-term transfer of a French woman to rye, nothing terrible will have time to happen, a resistant strain of microorganisms created in the sourdough will not have time to be reborn. tested on its own skin. Also, once in the park, all the sourdough boiled down to a gramule into the dough, I came to my senses at the moment when I washed the jar from the remains of the Frenchwoman, fed the rest of the dough several times, everything returned to normal, the Frenchwoman did not lose her properties and qualities.

Zest,
Here I have a similar structure, the color of the crumb is even darker, but this bread is not at all similar to yours either from the first page of the topic, nor to the one to which you sent me the second time

I referred you to the bread shown in answer number 2 of that topic. There, there are 100 g of whole grain flour and 100 g of rye in the dough, all the rest of the flour is white baking, but the crumb has already turned out without large holes, closer to fine-pored.
I wanted to say by this that replacing even an insignificant amount of flour in the recipe leads to changes in the crumb structure, and even more so such cardinal changes in the recipe that you made.
If you want the same bread as in the photo, try to do everything exactly according to the recipe. Good luck to you

The dough on it has already ripened, just now put bread on it. Took part of it and fed it 1: 1: 1, as Viki wrote. I'll see how it behaves further, but I think I'll normalize it.

kava
What awesome bread you have. How did you bake them?

This is how my dough looks like in 10 hours




Here is such a daub in the kneading process (I knead in a bread maker in pizza mode)


and so after adding salt and oil


at the end of the program I take out (or rather dump out) the finished dough


and shape the bread


Well, then I transfer it to a preheated cast-iron goose maker and bake under a lid for 15 minutes at maximum, and then without a lid for another 30 minutes.

[kava]

Well, kava , well, well done. I just froze and became numb in admiration.

Here, once again I am convinced that desire, perseverance and striving for success will always bear fruit!
I want to clap my hands with joy, how cool are you doing
CONGRATULATIONS

Well, then I transfer it to a preheated cast-iron goose maker and bake under a lid for 15 minutes at maximum, and then without a lid for another 30 minutes.

All the same in the gosyatnitsa. In a cauldron, I also do well. I thought you were baking on the hearth. The problem is that without a stone, the bottom burns. But there is no goose-girl. And I want loaves.

Thanks for the detailed description. Beauty!

kava so I also offered to feed 1: 1: 1, this is 1: 2

All the same in the gosyatnitsa. In a cauldron, I also do well. I thought you were baking on the hearth. The problem is that without a stone, the bottom burns. But there is no goose-girl. And I want loaves.

Thanks for the detailed description. Beauty!

I bake everything on paper on a wire rack. does not burn

I bake everything on paper on a wire rack. does not burn

but on my paper it burns on a baking sheet and the paper has to be cut. Please tell us - how do you do it? If possible, in detail.

[suslja, kava,]

suslja, kava, what beautiful bread ... kava, it looks like your dough has increased 5 times. I also need to bake it on French rye.
And I baked a favorite Izyuminkin. Easy to prepare and delicious. Next time I will take into account all my shortcomings, so that my bread is like Raisin.
Zest, thank you very much for your help, and, of course, for the bread recipe.

[suslja, Zest, Viki,]

Thank you all for your kind words! I never tire of repeating that nothing is impossible for a person. There would be desire, patience and perseverance in achieving the goal.

suslja, Zest, Viki, I report: the state of the leaven is excellent, I have fed the glutton 3 times already, and is returning to its working state. Thank you for your prompt response to SOS callsigns

Despite the obvious progress in my baking business, I still come across such a nuance from time to time as a cracked roof in bread, especially in wheat-rye. It seems that I do everything the same way, I let it stand for 40-50 minutes (during this time, the loaf increases by just 2 times). I can’t grasp: I over-distribute or under-distribute. ... Sometimes it cracks along the outlined cuts - then it comes out nicely, and sometimes straight like a cobweb over the entire surface. Maybe someone came across this?

My bread tore once, but then I cut the proofing, he did not get it, and I had to leave, I didn't have time with baking, maybe it’s like that for you (come on, okay), maybe it’s just a little missing. It is grabbed from above, but the work is still going on inside.

[suslja]

suslja, I understand this with my mind, but to catch the moment when it is already necessary to transplant bread into the oven is not always possible until it turns out I once overexposed bread (there was a 2-hour proofing in the recipe), although I saw that the dough was already bubbling in places cuts (I wanted to do it strictly according to the recipe), so it not only did not rise, but also blew away during baking. Now I just have a little fad: I'm afraid to overexpose everything, maybe that's why I'm in a hurry ...

[kava]

kava

I have long concluded for myself that it is the most thankless task to maintain the exact time of proofing in the recipes. They can only be taken as an approximate guideline, but be sure to monitor the behavior of the workpiece during proofing. It may take more or less time specified.
But it takes time and experience to understand at what point the bread has already moved away ... you cannot tell it on your fingers ...

When I already thought that I was perfectly capturing this moment, I began to strain the bread in special baskets, from which then it was necessary to shake out the bread by turning it over. So these same manipulations showed me that I was grossly mistaken. At first, the workpieces were blown off like balloons (they were stationary).
I had to again adjust my ideas about a moderately distant test.
It should be well-raised and at the same time not yet losing its elasticity.

Today I do proofing in a basket for the first time, I want to bake in the hearth method, let's see how I catch the moment

[suslja]

suslja, and where did you (we are on you, right?) got the baskets? I, too, so want to try to defend in them, otherwise I first defend in one duck, and then transfer to another. I am aware of the difficulties described Zest, but I really want baskets And the aunties in the rollers use them so skillfully

[kava]

kava I bought a basket by accident, was in the Metro (we have such a store), and accidentally came across a whole rack, I would have passed by, but here .... as my husband says "made a rack", different shapes, with canvas bags and embroidery on the edge of "Bread", of course, went with her in an embrace.
Zest , I will have to round off the oven, my husband went into the kitchen and tearfully asked not to turn it on anymore ... so I switch to HP.

Well, what girls ... I'm showing ...



and now I'm telling you. The dough rose perfectly, threw it onto a baking sheet without problems, but then ... I put an old frying pan on the bottom of the oven, it heated up with it and then I poured water into it.The couple was like in a bath, the bread was beautiful, and then, after a while, it began to blur and crack, I was confused, sprinkled water from a spray bottle, then I decided to pour more water into the pan, I opened the oven and I feel that there is no heat, I pour water, but she doesn't even hiss .... Girls, when I splashed for the first time I poured the fire and that's it, kirdyk bread. I already turned on the oven again, I was baking something ... but anyway, it's not that ...

[victosh]

victosh
And when molding, it is important to act quickly and accurately - not to squeeze air bubbles out of the dough.

Zest.
Here's about the bubbles. I attended a seminar where we were told that the main task of the baker is to release air from the dough between the first and second "proofing". Regardless of experience and status. Then I knew little about baking bread, I took it on faith. And I have a book, where it is also written this way, about all types of dough - yeast, sponge or sourdough - it doesn't matter - there should be no air bubbles. I personally have nothing against them, but a question arises to which you certainly have an answer.

Viktosh, it is not air that accumulates in bread during fermentation, but carbon dioxide formed as a result of fermentation. If all the gas is expelled from the dough, then the structure will be finely porous, such as we see in bread baked at bakeries. If there is a lot of gas in the dough, then from the point of view of chemistry, the fermentation process will slow down. In my opinion, we need a "golden mean".
Maybe I'm wrong. Unfortunately, the theory of baking is not my strong point, Zest will explain better.