Panasonic SD-253 or LG HB-205 CJ

Dealing with both panasonic SD-253 and LG HB-205 CJ, I want to make a comparative description of these units, from a practical point of view.

You need to start the comparison, of course, with the name, and here panasonic is undoubtedly higher than LG and more confidence, for sure the Japanese company is aroused by everyone. But, given the fact that panasonic is assembled in China, I think that there is little left of Japan. Although it should be noted that the assembly was carried out quite neatly and not clumsy (which cannot be said about the English Kenwood bread maker, which was assembled in China in such a way that the naked eye could see: some parts were crookedly connected). Everything is simpler at LG: they are made in Korea and assembled in Korea. I don’t know how well they did it (still in working order), but they put it together quite well and neatly, externally and internally, everything looks decent.
The presence of a window on the LG lid is undoubtedly a plus in the direction of this unit. Even if we do not note its practical significance (control over baking), it must be said that just observing the process is a real pleasure, and when baking in panasonic, curiosity is so bursting that, willy-nilly, you stick your nose under the lid (and this does not have a positive effect on process). Panasonic has a big flaw in this matter.
The presence of a dispenser in panasonic is a separate conversation. The manufacturer claims that this is a plus, but I would argue. It is much more convenient for me to add the ingredients myself on a signal, because I can put any food, but not everything can be put into the dispenser. Plus, some of the products from it, sometimes wake up past the form. But in fairness, it must be said that sometimes it is convenient to put food into the dispenser and leave the house for a while, rather than sit near the oven and wait for the signal.
When I was choosing a bread maker, from my experience with panasonic, I wanted the shape of the bucket to be rectangular, not square. But it so happened that of all the brands and models I chose LG, and there was a square and tall shape. I was very worried that in a narrow and high form the dough would not rise well, but my husband reassured that everything would be OK (after all, the LG model range is large enough and if there were problems, then, for sure, the company would have already changed its shape) and I believed his arguments and was not mistaken. Now the mold in LG, I like it even more than in panasonic (the knife is in the center of the mold, and I never worry that some of the flour will remain on the sides of the bread). Although the type and shape of the finished bread is a matter of taste.
If we note the accessories that come with the stove, then the measuring spoon in panasonic is much better than in LG. The spoon in LG is made of opaque plastic, this leads to significant inconvenience when measuring 1/2 or 1/3 of a spoon, although there is a ½ mark, but it is located inside and does not stand out very much against the background of the entire spoon. In panasonic, the spoon is transparent and has several marks, which is much more convenient.
Panasonic comes with 2 knives: one for wheat, the other for rye flour, and LG has only one. I don’t know in which direction this is a plus, because rye and wheat bread, for me, turned out well in both ovens.
The knife in LG is made of plastic and I didn't like it, whereas in panasonic, both knives are metal, this is a definite plus.
I want to note that after baking in panasonic, the knife remained in the bread in 50% of cases, and in LG, after I baked 4 different breads in it, the knife always remained in shape, which is much more convenient and aesthetically pleasing and there is no need to pick out this knife from bread (I will say more, it is not so easy to get a knife out of the mold, I only succeed after pouring warm water into a bucket).
The panasonic bread maker is unique in the way it puts food in a bucket.Basically, in all stoves, the bookmark starts with liquid food and ends with dry food and yeast. In panasonic it's the other way around, yeast and dry foods first, then liquids. I must say that the panasonic version is much more convenient from a practical point of view. When you act according to LG rules, you first need to wet the glass and spoon, and then they need to be washed and dried (dry thoroughly so that flour does not stick to the glass walls), and in panasonic, you pour dry foods with a dry glass and a dry spoon, and then the liquid ingredients. All this cuts the time in half. And accordingly adds the pluses of panasonic.
If we touch upon the taste of the bread from these ovens, then it turns out tasty both there and there, but, though a little different (I don’t know what it’s connected with).
I also want to note that, according to an objective assessment of people close to me, the crust in bread from the LG oven turns out to be tastier, it is more crisp and at the same time, less firm than in panasonic. Although this is also a matter of taste.

Finally, I want to say that I am not agitating anyone in one direction or another, because I love both stoves dearly. I just thought that my experience could be useful to someone and save them from disappointments after the purchase.

P.S. Perhaps during operation, a few more points will appear for comparison, then I will return to this topic and supplement it.

About the knives ...
Strange ... I have been using LG202CE for more than 5 years. She has a teflon-coated metal knife. Are you sure you have it in plastic? Doesn't it melt from temperature?

The knife is exactly plastic. And in the instructions for the stove, the point is especially noted that it is impossible to turn on the stove if the bucket is empty, since due to the high temperature, the knife may be damaged (they so modestly called it - melt).
I didn’t turn it on with an empty bucket and my knife is still alive. I don’t know what will happen next.

I personally LG I can not boast enough !!!

I have an LG 206 stove and I am very happy with it. Indeed, the window is very convenient. French baked bread, as in the recipe. It turns out just great with good flour. She also baked milk and egg. / Both turned out well. My family likes simple, even without fat and milk, only water, flour, salt, sugar and yeast.

The presence of a window on the LG lid is undoubtedly a plus in the direction of this unit.
One of the comparative reviews of stoves said that stoves without a window bake better. Apparently, the temperature distribution over the volume is more uniform. Panasonic has no flaw in this matter.
and when baking in panasonic, curiosity is so bursting that, willy-nilly, you stick your nose under the lid (and this does not have a positive effect on the process).
It is advisable to watch only the batch. After that you really don't need to watch, although panasonic does not prohibit.
Now the mold in LG, I like it even more than in panasonic (the knife is in the center of the mold, and I never worry that some of the flour will remain on the sides of the bread).
With the correct flour-water ratio, nothing remains on the sides of the mold. If this is not so, there will be bad bread. It is necessary to add water 1-2 tbsp. spoons during kneading.
I want to note that after baking in panasonic, a knife in bread remained in 50% of cases
Not once in two months.
I have a Panasonic SD-207, but it's almost the same thing.

I want to note that after baking in panasonic, a knife in bread remained in 50% of cases
Not once in two months.
I have a Panasonic SD-207, but it's almost the same thing.

I don’t know what’s the matter, but when using the same recipes, the knife remains in Panas (I mean: it remains in bread), but in LG - not once. If you do not have such a problem, is it possible that the Panasonic SD-207 is different from the Panasonic SD-253?

I don’t know what’s the matter, but when using the same recipes, the knife remains in Panas (I mean: it remains in bread), but in LG - not once. If you do not have such a problem, is it possible that the Panasonic SD-207 is different from the Panasonic SD-253?

Maybe. My Panasonic SD-207 has a transverse recess on the wall (where the flat part is).the cut for the knife on the axis in the bucket is made not parallel to the axis, but slightly at an angle, so. that the top of the cut is wider than at the base (popularly explained ...). At first I thought that this was a slapdash performance (or maybe there is?), But it is because of this that the knife is firmly baked with the axis of the dough that has got into the hole of the knife. After baking, you have to drip a teaspoon of water onto the axle so that it gets wet and you can remove the knife.

I never had a knife in my bread ... That is, I didn't get it along with the bread ...

If the mold stands and cools down after baking, you still need to try to get it out sometimes ...

By the way, literally right away, a ribbed knife for rye bread was lost somewhere ... So since then I have been baking with the usual ...

Panasonic and Hitachi are the undisputed leaders. All owners of any manufacturers praise their stoves.
LG - budget option
In the store there were 3 x / w LG and Panasonic. Build quality and materials in favor of Panasonic.

When I was choosing a stove, then on some website I read the information that it is better to buy without a window. Bottom line - I bought PANASONIK, model, in my opinion, 207. Happy until squeak

Yes, they even told me about the window in the store. I looked at moulinex. I liked the compactness of the bread maker. The seller said that the baking is normal, only the window is minus when baking. He began to offer me to improve the design. From the inside, remove the window with foil, while reminding that then the device is automatically removed from the warranty.

You can't argue against the laws of physics. The thermal conductivity of glass is higher than the thermal conductivity of a sandwich: metal inner lid + air gap between inner lid and outer + outer plastic lid.

My Panasonic SD-207 has a transverse recess on the wall (where the flat part is). the cut for the knife on the axis in the bucket is made not parallel to the axis, but slightly at an angle, so. that the top of the cut is wider (there is a flat area) than at the base (popularly explained ...). At first I thought it was a slapdash performance.

Yesterday I specially drew attention to this. I am not a metalworking technologist, but I can say: to make such a cut profile you need a special cutter.
Thanks to this clever profile, a lock is formed together with the dough, and the knife always remains on the axis after baking.

And everything is smooth for me (Panasonic 253). Or I do not understand something. The knife on the axle dangles with a large margin.

He should hang out. When heated, bodies expand. Physics have not been forgotten? For this you need a gap or, as you call it, "dangles".
Is everything OK! Good bakery !!! Good luck to you!

And my knife never got stuck I really love my bread maker and I always say sweet words to her

Panasonic and Hitachi are the undisputed leaders. All owners of any manufacturers praise their stoves.

I do not consider them leaders, the point is advertising in different regions. For example, in Ukraine (Kiev), not a single home appliance store or online store has a Hitachi stove (I walked around a lot). On one culinary site, there were a lot of people from America and almost all the MURPHY RICHARDS stoves (you must admit that no one has heard of such a brand here). On our forum there is Olga Mikhailyuk from the USA, so she has an Oster 5838 stove, I think they have never heard of such a company either in Ukraine or in Russia. But this does not mean that in some countries these firms are not popular and they are not considered leaders, they simply are not imported to us and, accordingly, are not advertised. And the fact that PANASONIK is one of the most advertised companies is a fact, and advertising, as you know, is the engine of trade. In Ukraine, advertising of Panasonic stoves both in magazines and on TV, and I have not seen ads for other stoves. This is where such sales volumes come from (at home, half of the equipment is also Panasonic, we, like everyone else, are led by this).

LG - budget option

A pretty budget option, if my LG is cheaper than my mother's 253 Panas by $ 10 (in the online store).

Bread makers with unknown names are also found here.
Panasonic is not an advertised brand, but a company that has confirmed the guaranteed quality of its products for many decades.
LG - I did not say that this is a bad company .... but its products are of a different level.
America is a different continent. They do not let the Japanese go there. Americans have nowhere to put their "good". I did not understand the example about people from America.

Oh guys, what difference does it make which brand? At my house, finally, all the equipment is different. and the TV will die, "Horizon" !!! The main thing is that our stoves WORK and we LOVE them !!!! I kiss mine like that after each bread))

And everything is smooth for me (Panasonic 253). Or I do not understand something. The knife on the axle dangles with a large margin.

Before baking, he should hang out or as stated in p1. on page 10 of the instructions, turn slightly. During kneading, the dough will be crammed into the gap formed between the axis and the knife, and during the baking process, this dough, while sintering, must firmly connect the knife to the axis. This is what happens to me.

And today I made a honey-nut one, very small, for 300 g, for a sample. At work we almost got into a fight ...... SUCH TASTY BUN !!!! And instead of dried fruits - candied pineapple fruits, so colorful)) Only I put more of them than according to the recipe, I really like pineapples And more nuts

Good day to all! I have a Panasonic SD-253, I bake bread every other day. The knife ALWAYS remains in shape (it cannot be removed with the bread) although the knife on the axis cannot be said to be sitting like a glove

I bake EVERY day, sometimes twice NEVER the knife remained in the bread !!!

Good evening!!!!! After reading it, it will not turn back to you !!! Maybe at least you can help? The fact is that I bought the first HP I bought MOULINEX 2000, but it was without instructions, I baked bread for almost all recipes for a week using the poke method, it turned out to be normal except for the top (it was pale), but there were no instructions from this model, I did not know that it can be left in the oven after baking to brown. after long negotiations with the HP store, they exchanged me (but the same model was not, and I didn’t really strive to change to the same one, changed to LG 206) and now I suffer, don’t know if I didn’t grieve. Firstly, the top is also light, there is no jam mode, there is no mode and recipe for rye bread either (and for me this is important) I tried recipes for rye from the forum, they did not work out very well for me. And now there is just a decline in mood and there are still 10 months to pay off the loan. Can you help kicks with some interesting proven recipes (especially rye or black bread), and maybe there are some useful tips ??? PLEASE !!!!!! AND THANKS!!!!!!!!
🔗

[If you cooked correctly, then the jam will retain almost all the taste and aroma of fresh berries or fruits.]

Good evening!!!!! After reading it, it will not turn back to you !!! Maybe at least you can help? The fact is that I bought the first HP I bought MOULINEX 2000 but it was without instructions, by typing I baked bread for almost all recipes for a week, it turned out to be normal except for the top (it was pale), but there was no instruction from this model, I did not know that it can be left in the oven after baking to brown. after long negotiations with the HP store, they exchanged me (but the same model was not, and I didn’t really strive to change to the same one, changed to LG 206) and now I suffer, don’t know if I didn’t grieve. Firstly, the top is also light, there is no jam mode, there is no mode and recipe for rye bread either (and for me this is important) I tried recipes for rye from the forum, they did not work out very well for me. And now there is just a decline in mood and there are still 10 months to pay off the loan. Can you help kicks with some interesting proven recipes (especially rye or black bread), and maybe there are some useful tips ??? PLEASE !!!!!! AND THANKS!!!!!!!!
🔗

Do not worry! Both the one and the other stove are approximately equivalent. Rye bread is a tricky thing, it won't work right away. You need to start with the recipes that are in the instructions. And further. Bread made from premium wheat flour and rice flour additions almost always have a light top crust, in almost any oven. It is worth setting the crust color to the maximum when starting the program.

Jam mode is a completely uncritical thing. I will tell you a secret that I have never revealed to ANYONE: delicious jam can be cooked in the microwave! Obviously, you can't cook a bucket ... But a little - you can! How?

How to cook jam in the microwave at any time of the year.
Cook in a glass dish (for microwave). Fill in berries (fresh or frozen) or chopped fruits with sugar. The proportion is the same as for ordinary jam. For sour varieties - 1.5-2 parts of sugar per 1 part of fruit and berries, for sweet ones - 0.5-1 part.

Put in the microwave for defrosting (if the berries are frozen) or low heat (20-30%). Wait until the jam is well warmed up. The goal is to slowly dissolve the sugar. Then increase the heat to 50% and cook for a few minutes. To get a very aromatic jam, you need to take out the semi-finished jam - let it stand for a day. Cook the next day. Check this way: if a drop of jam, falling from a spoon, pulls a thread, the jam is ready. You need to watch carefully - the slightest overheating - and the jam will be brown and bitter.

If you cooked correctly, then the jam will retain almost all the taste and aroma of fresh berries or fruits.
It is best to cook in small portions - 0.2 - 0.5 kg. Taste and aroma are better. And then, why do you need a lot of jam? After a week, cook again (if you have frozen berries and fruits since autumn), it's very simple, just try a couple of times ...

MUSIK
And there is no way to exchange for Panasonic?

MUSIK
And there is no way to exchange for Panasonic?

What's the point? Because Panasonic makes jam? How else are they different? Yes, nothing.
Girl-Musik, use HP and don't worry.

How to cook jam in the microwave at any time of the year.

Whoa! For me, this is a direct revelation! Don't you need to mix? Thank you very much for the non-standard recipe!

Whoa! For me, this is a direct revelation! Don't you need to mix? Thank you very much for the non-standard recipe!

Sometimes you need to interfere a couple of times - try it once or twice - you yourself will understand what and how. The main thing here is not to burn it, since it never burns, but simply foams, but then you yawn - all the sugar immediately in the jam will immediately turn brownish and bitter. But if everything is correct ... The taste is just superrrrr !!!

Good evening!!!!! Having read it, it will not turn back to you !!! Maybe at least you can help? Firstly, the top is also light, there is no jam mode, there is no mode and recipe for rye bread either (and for me this is important) I tried recipes for rye from the forum, they did not work out very well for me. And now there is just a decline in mood and there are still 10 months to pay off the loan. Can you help kicks with some interesting proven recipes (especially rye or black bread), and maybe there are some useful tips ??? PLEASE !!!!!!

My friend also has LH and she calmly bakes rye bread, or rather, she never tasted pure rye, but wheat-rye, yes. So do not be afraid, the main thing is to understand the technology of making this bread, the only thing that is not convenient is that there is no baking mode, but nothing, you can turn on the rooted program and some time before baking, put a cupcake there, for example, and everything will work out

I bought myself a LG-205CJ, baked different sorts of bread on it (y) delicious, very easy to operate, easy to clean, it works almost silently, it pleases :) The price is $ 160, not to say that it is quite budgetary. Overall a good model, happy with my choice

I bought myself a LG-205CJ, baked different types of bread on it (y) delicious

I also have this model, only there is no recipe book. If it's not difficult, write your favorite recipes using a measuring cup and a spoon, otherwise most of the recipes on the site are in grams, I don't have electronic scales yet. I will wait!

Otherwise, most of the recipes on the site are in grams, I don't have electronic scales yet.

What volume do you have in a glass of HP? I can tell you that the volume of 240 ml includes 150 grams. sifted wheat flour, and in 300 ml - 200 g.
I usually do not even put tea and tablespoons with a measuring spoon of HP, but with ordinary ones.
There is still more different types of flour here.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...smf&Itemid=26&topic=671.0

What volume do you have in a glass of HP?

A glass of 230 ml, with a top of 240, and I measure out a full one - this is 150 grams of wheat flour. I have already adapted to wheat flour. But with other species ...
I just would like to see the "native" recipes, if only for the sake of interest
Thanks for the link!

Thanks to everyone who teaches shares shows tells and convinces
Good loaves to all
I want to ask a few LG owners
Tell me, your hb had an unpleasant plastic smell at first and when it disappeared
I've been baking more than 15 times and the smell of persistent plastic is everywhere
I hoped that it would pass, but so far there is no impression that the paint metallic smells so unpleasant on the case when heated, I communicated with the manager of lies Ukraine in Kiev says go to the service center but I don’t know ...
can wait
and it was necessary to choose this particular model
although the choice was small ...

[Do not open the lid until the bread is completely cooked ...... "]

The presence of a window on the LG lid is undoubtedly a plus in the direction of this unit.
One of the comparative reviews of stoves said that stoves without a window bake better. Apparently, the temperature distribution over the volume is more uniform. Panasonic has no flaw in this matter.
and when baking in panasonic, curiosity is so bursting that, willy-nilly, you stick your nose under the lid (and this does not have a positive effect on the process).
It is advisable to watch only the batch. After that you really don't need to watch, although panasonic does not prohibit it.

Pro does not prohibit - whether it is considered a prohibition - on page 8, paragraph 2, subparagraph 6 - "Do not open the lid until the bread is completely cooked ...... "
Based on my modest three-month experience, I agree that it is better not to open it.

Tell me, your hb had an unpleasant plastic smell at first and when it disappeared

I just have LG 205. I bake bread 2-3 times a week, I recently bought a stove, there was no smell of plastic at all. Not in the baking process, or sweat in the bread itself. On the contrary, only a very fragrant smell of yeast during the process, and then the awesome smell of fresh bread.

The window in the oven is a definite plus. I realized this only when I bought the stove. When choosing, I did not pay much attention to this. The bread is baked absolutely evenly and the crust color is even and uniform. It is not at all clear how the window can affect the temperature distribution in the oven.

Recently I bought an LG HB-205 CJ - my wife really liked it, but I tried to bake bread and was disappointed. The first sample (he doesn’t dare to call it bread) first rose, then fell, and on top of it, a hole formed in it. And it all smelled like yeast. The first bookmark was done strictly according to the instructions, then I read the possible mistakes, reduced the amount of water, yeast and the second product looked a little better. But it's still impossible to call it bread - the crust is white, the crumb is damp, it crumbles strongly. I spent a week experimenting with this miracle of technology, choosing different baking modes and bookmarks. By the way, the program "Rossiyskiy chef", "Basic" and "Special" are one and the same, judging by those. characteristics of programs. It is not clear why to replicate one program? It would be better if they added the ability to program the rise time of the dough. And on one heating element, located in the lower part of the form, it is not possible to get a baked top crust. The only thing that works flawlessly is the timer. I put it up and at the appointed time, a second in a second, you will get a lukewarm something, neither in shape nor in content that does not resemble bread, with a piece of iron in the middle. Maybe I got a defective bakery, or did everyone who praises their ovens go through it? I would be grateful if anyone could help with advice on how to make this Korean miracle bake normal bread.

Recently bought LG HB-205 CJ
I spent a week experimenting with this miracle of technology, choosing different baking modes and bookmarks.
on one heating element, located in the lower part of the form, it is not possible to get a baked top crust.
at the appointed time, a second to a second, you will get a lukewarm something, neither in shape nor in content does not resemble bread

I will subscribe to every word. Already 10 loaves have been baked, only a fake for Darnitsky (fugaska recipe) baked normally. Everything else is unbaked rubbish. Translation of flour. Of course, I continue to convince myself that I will still be able to find the dosages, find good yeast, but deep down in my heart the understanding has matured that this is a dead poultice. The stove is rubbish. I have something to compare with: my mother-in-law Kenwood BM-210, this is a really worthwhile unit. And at a price it is more democratic, and the bread in it turned out the first time, without any dancing with tambourines. Both the lush and the top crust are, by the way, ruddy, although I'm not at all sure that there is an upper ten.

[Margulis]

The stove is rubbish.

Yours is not true! LG are very good stoves! Maybe you came across a defective copy ...

Both the lush and the top crust are, by the way, ruddy, although I'm not at all sure that there is an upper ten.

Margulis, there is no need to talk about what you do not know - I have both LG and 255 Panasonic. Excellent bread is produced in both ovens. In Panas, which is considered a top-end stove, and a wonderful crust is obtained, there is also one ten.

My mom bought herself a 205 model ski
Now here I am on fire
Basic bread, white, French, super pumpkin It turns out very tasty. The oven is not bad (though I have nothing to compare with).
Truth in the characteristic it is written that "Saving the program in case of a power outage for 10 minutes." Our light went out for a second, and the program turned off. And where are the promised 10 minutes? The bread was left unbaked (it had 20 minutes before the end of the program). Why is that? Manufacturer error? do we write something that is not there to increase sales? After all, when choosing HP, we paid attention to this. And how are you?
And there is a mistake in the instructions. For the dumplings dough, 5 cups of flour are written. The dough did not come out, it turned out very steep, thrown into the trash. I found instructions on the internet, for dumplings dough you need 3 bowls.
And I found a couple more mistakes

[katzchen]

katzchen, I somehow had to remove the HP from the socket during work (it was necessary to make complex castling with plugs-sockets) - it had not come to baking yet, but the batch was already over and I was afraid ... The program was preserved - I was very glad of that ...
Wasn't it possible to turn on the "baking" and finish baking it yourself? Maybe this function does not work specifically on baked goods? Try experimenting - during (or between) kneading, unplug the HP from the outlet ...

Wasn't it possible to turn on the "baking" and finish baking it yourself?

The idea is good. :) But the question is, the bread is left to bake for 20 minutes. The baking program is designed for 1 hour and 20 minutes. Wouldn't the bread burn at the same time?

Well, why put on a full baking cycle? After 20 minutes, you can forcibly turn off ...

[Margulis, 1609 VLAD]

Margulis, 1609 VLAD

I have Panas 254 and LG. In both, excellent bread is obtained, in Panas there is a more fried top crust (it has no window).
The result depends on the flour and yeast (I use live pressed ones), well, the bun should be monitored first in order to clarify the proportions for local water / flour.
I took recipes from the site, recipes from a book for LV had to be corrected - add flour, and a lot.

I've been using the "ski" for a year now. I bake with any flour, almost every day. The punctures were at first, until I learned how to control the bun and stopped experimenting with the fast mode (only Elena Bo's bread works great) All recipes from the fast mode are perfectly baked in other modes, this has already been discussed in Temko about LG. In general, I am absolutely satisfied with the oven, I bake according to different recipes, all so t. T. T.

[BAKERY PRODUCTS]

And in the 205th model the mode BAKERY PRODUCTS there is?
"Russian cook" - this is only for specials. breads specified in the instructions?

Rybka, 205 has a baking mode. It is called KEKS.
The Russian chef is similar to the Basic mode, only the beeper beeps,
for the addition of nuts, seeds, raisins, etc. And the Special mode
is similar to the first two.That is, the number and duration of kneading and proofing, baking time - everything is identical.
I won't say about the temperature, maybe it is different, who knows.
The instruction is silent about this.

[CAKE]

Rybka, 205 has a baking mode. It is called KEKS.
The Russian chef is similar to the Basic mode, only the beeper beeps,
for the addition of nuts, seeds, raisins, etc. And the Special mode
is similar to the first two. That is, the number and duration of kneading and proofing, baking time - everything is identical.
I won't say about the temperature, maybe it is different, who knows.
The instruction is silent about this.

Yeah! What is the program CAKE does not provide for preliminary mixing?
Ie. Russian chef, Basic and Special - is this the same program? Absolutely the same? Why then was it destroyed?
Russian chef - is it for rye / pumpkin / sour cream, etc.?
The main - is it for a plain white?
Special - for what?