The second bread maker - is it necessary?

Good day,
We have been using Panasonic for two weeks now. Everything that has been baked so far has succeeded immediately. Happy with the result
BUT
I don't really like thick walls, not a crust on top, but a crust on the side and bottom. It is not burnt, just in comparison with the purchased solid part is much thicker.

Now there is a need to buy a second one (for parents). I would like to hear:
Do they all have thicker side walls than purchased bread. And you also need to make small loaves (Panasonic - 400 gr. Flour) and preferably rye bread.
Thanks in advance.

Recently acquired Kenwood-450. In it, the crust turns out to be delicate and thin. The upper crust comes out no thicker or darker than the lateral ones. I haven't tasted rye in it yet. A wonderful stove. Just in love with her.

Before that there was Ariete, she gave a very thick lateral crust, and the top one was very pale. But my husband liked the bread made from her more.

A friend has a 255th Panasonic. In my opinion, the crust of the bread in it also turns out to be quite thin.

I have a normal crust. Maybe something is wrong in your recipe, or you are cooling and storing the bread incorrectly.
I bake white for 300 g of flour, it turns out well.

Hello everyone! Two years ago, I demonstrated a Panasonic bread machine in stores in my city. Since then, I can't imagine my life without her! And the crust of the bread is not too thin, but it is crispy and this is the most delicious thing in bread!

My bread has a thin crust. Noticeably thinner than the store. Like BooBoo, I usually bake for 300 grams of flour.

This is how it turns out.

The crust is influenced not so much by the model of the stove as by the products from which you bake. Add butter to the dough - you will have a crispy and rather dense crust, add vegetable oil - and the crust will be thinner, and the taste will be different. The same is with sugar, milk and other ingredients. And also, put the crust lighter - it will be thinner and paler

To size. The girls tried to buy a small stove here. Found only one model, I think Binaton. But besides the small size, it has the same program, and the crust cannot be selected ... Look at the ovens, which have a maximum size of no more than 900 g - 1 kg. They have a smaller size just 300 grams. It is unlikely that less, the shape of the bucket will not allow, the dough will smear around the edges ...

Hello! For several days I was solving a global problem for myself - which bread maker to buy? I had a Moulinex 5002 for almost a year and a half and it broke. I was pleased with the quality of the bread she baked, but ... There is no "Panasonic 255" in stores now. I chose between Mulieszka 5004 and Panasonic 254. When I picked up the Mulieszka recipe book, I was disappointed. Manufacturers have degraded - recipes are only for a kilogram loaf, and the rest - consider yourself. Maybe they have degraded in some way? In general, I bought a Panasonic 254 and is just happy. Indeed, what would be the correct answer to the question "Which bread maker is better?" you need to use several and compare. My comparison is not in favor of Moulinex. Now I'm a big fan of Panasonic. The difference in the performance of the stove itself and in practical use is huge. And, sadly for Moulinex, the end result - bread - is also very different. Panasonic's crust is thinner, the bread is more delicate and it cuts out itself. At Moulinex, it took a long time and it was difficult to beg to go outside. Maybe my thoughts will help someone decide, I will only be glad. Good luck and creative success.

Hello dear bakers!
I am asking you to resolve my doubts.

I have a bread maker - an old LG. It works flawlessly, everything that is supposed to do (and there are only 6 programs, including dough and fast mode).
I bought it for a long time, played enough, tried all the recipes from the instructions and put it in the far corner. I took it from this corner about a couple of times a month, to reproduce my favorite recipe. The bucket is already pretty scratched, and the stirrer has long been worn out, there is almost no Teflon left - my stove is working honestly and hardworking, you can't say anything.
And last year I came across your forum - I learned so many new and interesting things! She pulled out the bread maker and started experimenting again. I understood what mistakes I made and what opportunities the bread maker gives. How many different types of bread can be baked is incomprehensible to the mind! I did not even know before how many different recipes for baking bread are. Even she herself learned to make modifications to recipes and get something of her own (it's just that now I have begun to understand how bread is created in general). I found and bought buckwheat flour, rye flour, and I'm looking for whole grain. Found malt, molasses and other additives for rye bread. In general, she fell ill with bread-making.

But there is one thing that saddens me very much - I can't get rye bread. If there is more wheat flour than rye flour, the bread fits well and looks nice, although it is rather low. But when it is 50/50, or even pure rye flour, it just doesn't work. The roof falls down so that you can pour milk there after baking - like a bowl the roof looks like. And the bread itself is low and a little damp. And so it is always that I just did not. But the taste is good, tastier than the store.
And I just want rye - I generally love it more than white! I want to bake Borodinsky - and to make it tasty and beautiful.
So I got the idea to buy a second bread maker. I liked the Kenwood BM 450 - it looks reliable and it can be programmed - again, to bake rye bread.
But then the torment began: would it not turn out that I couldn’t make a rye oven in it either? Because of this, I want to take her. And I also make white bread in my LG - everything is baked very well, and the taste and appearance are great.
On the other hand, what if everything will be tastier in Kenwood? So, if I can't bake good rye breads in it, I still won't regret buying it.
Also, my LG, in fact, has only one working mode. (Judging by the instructions, although everything is not described in too much detail there, the Basic and Sweet modes differ only in that the signal about filling the ingredients is present in Sweet. And French and Wheat are no different, but I don't use French - I never have bread on it it didn’t work - it’s always short, tough and unbaked, although on Basic with the same ingredients there is a normal bread .. I suspect that the French program of my bread machine is simply incomplete.)
Kenwood is much richer in terms of regimes. But are they really needed?

I also like about Kenwood that you can make jam there, my function does not have such function.
In general - to buy or not to buy, that is the question!


Help, express your opinion!

I have had LG-202 for six years. Everything was fine, any bread was obtained. But it broke down - the belt was frayed and the heavy bread stopped stirring, the service could not replace it, so I had to buy a new one. I bought a Panasonic 255. Now I mainly use it, but on holidays, when I need to bake a lot of bread at once, I start both.
In principle, comparing these two stoves, I can say that Panasonic is more problem-free, but only programs do not always work out, sometimes you just have to turn off the stove and put it on baking when it comes up, so everything should work out in LG too.

The stove is not to blame, but something else. Have you found panifarin? Rye bread comes out better with it.

Yes, and panifarin is, and all sorts of additives. I've studied all the topics about problems with baking rye, tried everything.
You cannot put baked goods on my LG - there is no such mode. Only a full cycle from start to finish. I tried to knead and bake in the oven in a bread maker - this is how it happened, only it came out very dry (I did not know then that a bowl of water should be put in the oven), but it rose beautifully and tasted good.
But I need the bread maker to bake itself - I often put it on at night, I don't have enough time to bake in the oven. It's easier to get up at night and pull out to cool. And even until the morning it is in a bread maker on heating.

[Sergey Kornilov]

Sergey Kornilov, did you get rye and Borodinsky at LG?

[There are special topics to discuss Borodino bread and LG bread maker, go to these topics for dialogue.]

Please do not litter this topic !!!!

There are special topics to discuss Borodino bread and LG bread maker, go to these topics for dialogue.

In this topic, the question is asked - is a second stove needed?

[to NiLarna]

to NiLarna: I have a Cake mode - (cupcake) aka baking.
Rye - obtained on the whole grain mode.

to Admin: leaving, leaving ...

I believe that if you want to buy a second oven, just because the first does not produce bread, then it is not worth it.

[NiLarna]

NiLarna The service life of HP is 7 years (almost for all). The service life of a bucket is 2-4 years, like a Teflon frying pan. So we think we need the 2nd HP or not

The second bread maker appears in the house mainly for two reasons:
1) a lot of bread is baked and there is not enough time
2) but interesting.
I have two of them: Panasonic 255 and Kenwood 450. Panas was bought in January, Ken - in May. Reason for buying # 2. Although I like to put two side by side and the oven in one is white, and in the other black. The choice of these two models is made on the principle of opposites. Panas is fully automatic, and Ken is programmable, which drew attention to him. I'm curious. It seems to me that there are no particular reasons for profitability, as well as in buying HP in general, if the sale of ready-made bread is not organized.

You can buy 2 buckets at once and bake 2 different breads in parallel

[sazalexter]

I don't need to bake a lot - we consume bread very moderately. The opportunity to bake 500-gram loaves in Kenwood comes in handy.
sazalexterlike seven years old? Only seven years ?!
Mine is at least ten! Well, the Teflon is rubbed, yes. Especially worn on the mixer. But the bucket is still very much nothing, only scratches on the bottom. But it works!
They probably did better before ..

But what is this, then, let's say, I'll buy Kenwood, and after 7 years he will come to a kirdyk?

[an_domini]

The second bread maker appears in the house mainly for two reasons:
1) a lot of bread is baked and there is not enough time
2) but interesting.
I have two of them: Panasonic 255 and Kenwood 450. Panas was bought in January, Ken - in May. Reason for buying # 2. Although I like to put two side by side and the oven in one is white, and in the other black. The choice of these two models is made on the principle of opposites. Panas is fully automatic, and Ken is programmable, which drew attention to him. I'm curious. It seems to me that there are no particular reasons for profitability, as well as in buying HP in general, if the sale of ready-made bread is not organized.

an_dominiSo you bake rye too. How is he at Kenwood? Is it good? Do you often have problems?
And yet - did you try to make pure rye and / or Borodinsky?

And the taste - baked goods (any) from Kenwood and Panasonic - is there a difference (say, if you bake the same bread here and there)? Or does the taste ultimately not depend on the bread machine?
The benefits of homemade baked goods, of course, are not always the case.
The bread maker is the taste and quality of the bread, the creative process of its creation. Anyway, for me.

NiLarna, I understood your task: you need to make a photo series in comparison. This requires some time (not continuously baking, where so many!), The pictures will be specially collected for this and then I will make a comparative selection. In the meantime, in words: for Borodinsky (I do not bake pure rye) in Panas, I do not use the "Rye bread" program, but first turn on the "Pizza" mode, after 15 minutes. I turn it off and turn on "Gluten Free", turn it off after 1 hour. 15 minutes. before switching to the baking mode and in the off state, I wait for the dough to come in until it doubles (about 30-40 minutes), then baking for 1 hour. 5. min. In Ken, I make my favorite program out of this, and that's why Ken bought, so as not to stand all the time and not switch.
Both stoves bake well, in Ken it is interesting to look out the window (in Panas it is not there, you can only look for a second by lifting the lid). Subjectively: in Panas, the loaves are nevertheless more flavorful.
In short, entertainment. If you need a second stove for your soul, buy different ones - it's more interesting.

Good evening ! I also got a kenwood 450, tell me how impressions. If there are any proven recipes, share. I live in Kiev, unfortunately, the recipe book is not in Russian.

And I don't think it's worth buying a second stove. You will not use two at once, so one will be idle more often.Or, alternatively, take the more unnecessary in your opinion to the cottage.

maya2, I offered two main reasons for buying a second HP. If the first one, then for the production of bread, you may need more than one more HP (if commercial baking). And the second reason (interest, entertainment) requires a purchase at least for comparison. I have HP for the second reason. A dacha is also mainly an expense on pleasure, in order to receive commercial profit from it, you need to become something like a farmer. so we pay for the pleasure. By the way, it is for the summer residence that they often buy the second HP, so as not to carry it all the time from the city. I read on the forum that basically they take cheap HP easier or Alaska. I think Panas is better for giving, he is reliable. About using two at once for a family - it depends on the number of its members. Time definitely saves: I put white in one, black in the other. It's like going to a bakery. Once again: we are driven by curiosity, from the point of view of using HP as a simple kitchen tool, of course, it is not necessary. It's like two dogs in a house or two children: in principle one is enough, but for some reason they often have two. Apparently human nature.

For Kalina. Check out the topic Kenwood 450 on the forum. there are links to the e-mail address of the recipe book for him in both Russian and Ukrainian
Ninsky.
But I like Panas's recipes more (also download from the Internet) and, of course, recipes from the forum, they are checked by people, corrected and supplemented in the comments here.

an_domini, then you are right, maybe you really should buy a second one. I was recently at an electronics mall, I always drop by the bakery section. New bread machines have appeared, the shape of the bucket is already different - a bar, the same thought flashed, maybe buy more, otherwise you do not have time to bake, but decided not yet worth it.

[an_domini]

There is no summer residence, there is no need to carry HP anywhere. And we eat little bread, so "bread production" is not planned. And giving LG will not work - it is useless to "give" equipment to someone at this age. In addition, all the acquaintances who love to bake their own bread are already "baked".

Having fun with the new HP is definitely very nice. Especially if you remember that my LG is a very old model and there are no bells and whistles. And I want to try the jam, and program. But for the money that costs Kenwood ... entertainment is expensive, at least for me.
The main reason is to bake rye and Borodino ones without "dancing with tambourines" like: turn on one mode, then the second, then the third .. Besides, such dances won't work with my LG - I can't pause for the dough to distance. I can not stop any program and go directly to baking - there is no such possibility. That is, I can stop the program, but bake after that - only by starting the program again or in the oven already .. All these tricks plunge me into despondency, it's easier to do everything with your hands. But that's the problem - there is usually not enough time for this.
I do not mind watching the beginning of the kneading, I’ve even got used to it - to see how the bun is formed, add flour or liquid, if necessary. But after that I would very much like HP to do everything herself. That's why she is a smart technique to do all the work on her own.

an_domini, did not even expect - thanks in advance.
I will wait for the comparison results.
Although it would be more useful for me to compare LG with Kenwood, it will be very interesting to see what Kenwood bakes and how they taste. In addition, my friend has just Panasonic - it will be possible to involve her in a comparative assessment.
As a result of the discussion, there was one serious "for" Kenwood's purchase - the age of my LG. It turned out that HP "do not live so much" .. And I hadn't thought about it at all before.
This means that soon we can part with it and still have to buy another HP. And prices, such a nuisance, tend to rise.
So what is probably better to buy now than in a year for a price twice as high as it is today?
Although in a year (more, less - unknown) new HP models may appear, more interesting and "advanced".
That's it! Again I got it all mixed up!

Bread options: rye in Panasonic 255 and mustard with kefir in Kenwood 450. First conclusions: in Ken, bread is less dense, more porous. And Panas bakes more evenly: the photo shows that the white from Ken in the center is higher than from the sides.

[an_domini]

an_domini The comparison is a little incorrect, these are different breads!
If it's not difficult, bake for the forum according to the same recipe, one weight, ingredients, etc.

sazalexter, this is not a comparison yet, but quick conclusions for NiLarna. I promised her an experiment in comparison, but so far I am only collecting photographic materials, in terms of comparing the French mode in both HP and manual rye in Panas with the programmed one in Ken. Now it is baked in Kena according to my rye program. I will take a photo and the next one according to the same recipe in Panas, but in 2 days, when they eat this one. You see, the experiment is not fast, I do not have a large number of eaters, I will gradually collect statistics. However, impressions are accumulating. At the weekend, I baked in Kena the recipe from Panas "Bread from several types of flour" on mode 3, it turned out to be higher, more luxuriant and porous than before in Panas in the "Basic" mode (this mode is suggested in the instructions). I think this is due to the fact that program 3 in Ken has more proofs and the flakes swell better. Parallel output: try in Panas on the "Diet" mode.
At the same time, from other breads, there is a stable impression of a more uniform heating in Panas (in it, the loaves are usually smoother than in Ken). You see, how many options, we will not be in time quickly, we will continue to accumulate results. Join us!

[NiLarna]

NiLarna,
I have two x / n - LG 205 and Panasonic 254. Panas bought 5 months after buying LG. Causes:
1) initially wanted Panas, but could not find it, bought what was in the store.
2) I really like to bake bread, different, that is, "interesting"
3) wanted the jam function.
Therefore, when I came across the desired Panasonic at a normal price, I bought it without hesitation. I use both. More, all the same Panasonic, but I don’t forget the ski. I like both, but they various, I can't say that one is definitely better than the other. And I do not regret for a minute that I have two of them.

I hasten to show the results of an experiment with French regimes in Ques 450 and in Panas 255. Two white breads were made according to one recipe, the simplest: yeast, water, salt, flour, without sugar. French regime in Qena 3h. 40 minutes, in Panas - 6 hours. Both breads turned out to be the same weight: Ken - 826g, Panas - 821g. But there is a significant difference in height: in Ken, it is 5 cm lower. The top crust in Kena is pale (I noticed that it is the same on other breads), maybe the fact that Panas does not have a viewing window and better thermal insulation from above plays a role here. Once I did not close the dispenser at Panas, and on the bread I got a light spot on the top crust just the size of it: the effect of non-uniform isolation. For the mode, there was no such main difference (although everything is the same about the crust). In general, look. The first is Ken, the second, higher is Panas.

ikko4ka, thanks for rating. It was nice to see that you are from Sevastopol, this is our second favorite city, almost native. We visit there almost every summer, soon in July we will go again.
Both loaves taste good French baked. But in Kena the crumb is denser and less porous.
Apparently, it is not in vain that everyone notes the French regime in Panas, in other stoves there is no such long French regime, it was not in vain that it was invented.
As for bread on other modes, then on the main one - the same, I baked plain, sesame, mustard, egg on kefir and milk. In Ken, I like mode 3 for whole grain bread, bread with cereals and various flours (buckwheat, oatmeal) is fluffier there, airier and higher than in Panas on the main one, although the top crust in Ken is always paler, probably due to insufficient insulation of the lid, not in vain at Panas is not a viewing window. It is necessary to try in Panas on the whole grain mode, this will be the next experiment.Rye according to its program in Ken and with switching modes in Panas both work well.

an_domini, good afternoon! Thanks for the detailed answer, nevertheless the conclusion is that Panas has a crust that is always fried, or not? Does Panas have more power? If more, then the presence of a viewing window does not matter.
Our city is really very beautiful and it is so pleasant that the heroic past is not forgotten in it, veterans and combatants are honored. Be sure to come. In summer we celebrate 225 years of the hero city of Sevastopol.

ikko4ka, on Ken, the power consumption is 780 W, and on Panas - 550 W. But what is the useful power, that is, for direct baking, is unknown. In Panas, I always put a light crust when baking, otherwise it can get very brown, especially if there is a lot of baking. In Ken, you need to put at least a medium crust, otherwise you will have a pale top.
And we will not only come to Sevastopol to have a rest, but every year we take our shipbuilding students to practice at the court. the plant, we will definitely give them excursions, my husband is engaged in the history of the fleet, knows your veterans, and meets with them. It is very upsetting that the land around the 35th battery is being built up with summer cottages, this should be a protected area. We'll be there for Navy Day!

an_domini, thanks. I was wrong, Ken has more power, and the crust is lighter, so the reason is different. Even so, it depends on the brand x. etc., and while my opinion is that Panasonic is one of the best models.
Have a great summer!

The second bread maker appears in the house, mainly for two reasons:
1) a lot of bread is baked and there is not enough time
2) but interesting.
I have two of them: Panasonic 255 and Kenwood 450. Panas was bought in January, Ken - in May. Reason for buying # 2. Although I like to put two side by side and the oven in one is white, and in the other black. The choice of these two models is made on the principle of opposites. Panas is fully automatic, and Ken is programmable, which drew attention to him. I'm curious. It seems to me that there are no special reasons for profitability, as well as in buying HP in general, if the sale of ready-made bread is not organized.

Sorry if off topic. At 255 Panasa ran into a marriage, gave it up, now I'm thinking about Ken450 (after all, why did it happen). How are they fundamentally different, and what would you advise as the owner of both.

vfksi, the fundamental difference is that Ken is programmable. You can make your own program, albeit within the framework in which you can change the time of the stages, so there are still limitations. For example, absolutely reliably (so as not to check and not correct) rye still does not work. In Panas, rye also has to be combined from several programs by forcibly stopping and turning on a new one, which is also not an automatic machine (Panas's own rye program is also not always suitable). In Panas, all modes are longer, this increases the quality (especially French). But sometimes you want it faster - then in Ken, there is no preliminary temperature equalization. Direct baking in both HPs is equally good. The rest of the differences are very subjective: Ken's appearance, the presence of backlighting are pleasant, but in my subjective opinion, if I had to take one stove, I would take Panas (it is more stable, although in your case it turned out the other way around, all firms have a marriage). But if you want to, Ken is pretty good too. It seems to me (and there are comparison results on the site too) that these are the two most stable HPs.

Can't you set up a program for Panas in Ken? Do this warm up?

"Warming up" can be done - 0-60 minutes. Ken's manual has a layout for programming capabilities. In order to repeat Panas's programs exactly according to it, you first need to measure all Panosonic programs with a clock. because in the instructions for Panas, all the details of the modes are omitted (for example, the deboning time is not indicated). Quite laborious and requires two ovens. In general, anyone interested can do it.In addition, for Panas, this very warm-up is a variable value, depending on the ambient temperature, the temperature equalization time can change, while the total time remains constant, the times of other parts of the programs change. And you can program on Ken only rigidly.

My HP 255, under repair since Wednesday, I'm thinking of buying a second one, although I hadn't even thought of this before, but after sitting without homemade bread for 5 days, I almost decided to buy OW5004, there are no baguettes in Panasik, this would distinguish my HP. But after a breakdown, I'm scared, suddenly the mule will also fail or the bread in it is worse, or it won't work (at 255 everything worked out the first time), my head already ached from these thoughts "BUY OR NOT BUY" like "TO BE OR NOT TO BE" and funny and sad.

[agata116]

agata116 , if you want and have the opportunity, of course, buy a second stove. Whichever you like best, take that one. This is such fun - then you will bake in two stoves and compare. And anything can break, do not get upset in advance.