Ciabatta (without batch)

[Klimola]

Klimola, I didn't replace it with rye, replaced it with whole grain, and even then only half a glass, here Krosh writes here, in this thread, page 7, that she bakes often, replacing 1.5 stack. flour from 4 to rye. And the photograph is bread, and the link.
Good luck!

Variation on a theme:
1. From corn flour
Ugly, of course, but delicious !!!!
The dough rose well despite the fact that I tried to "kill" it from the very beginning. At the most crucial moment, I ran out of wheat flour, and the ratio of wheat to corn was 1 to 3, respectively. I thought the dough wouldn't rise at all. Has risen. And I take it and accidentally crush it with a hot, heavy lid from the cauldron ... Oops! This is probably why the roof is flat.

2. Rye and the most, in my opinion, delicious.
The ratio of wheat to rye 250g to 150g. Perturbed longer. The light triangle on the roof, because I blush under the grill, it seemed to me that the top was burning, and I covered it with a piece of falg. Let's assume that this is "tuning".

[Klimola]

Klimola!
I just have no words! You are a fine fellow, this is your first bread, right? And you so calmly mix different things that are not very clear as mixing things, and even with its lid! And it turns out. I'm not even talking about rye, it looks very beautiful. I bought corn flour a long time ago, I keep it in the freezer and I’m still afraid to add something, everything seems to me that it’s heavy. I must learn from you not to be afraid. Keep up the good work, you will succeed!

[kisuri]

kisuri, Thanks for the kind words!
I also bought buckwheat, pea flour, oatmeal, so the experiments continue. I wonder if rast is added to this recipe. oil? Have you tried it?

[Klimola]

Klimola, it was about the vegetable oil in this recipe that I had questions, because in all ciabette recipes, olive oil is an essential component, and it is mixed in at the end of the batch, drop by drop. But none of Misha's (Livejournal) recipes, and he has several, has no butter. I thought that this was due to the fact that in order to mix oil with water, you still need a batch, which is not here. But here Frost thinks differently and always adds sunflower oil and she's doing very well. Look at the 1st page of this topic, she wrote about it in detail there. In her footsteps, I also added 2 tbsp. l. sub. oils. It turned out fine, at least not worse, but it seems not better. Try it, tell me.
Good luck!

I read it one more time, thanks! I will try.

[Misha]

Girls!
Here's what Misha about greasing the stack with butter (it is also bread without kneading and is not added to the batch) About oil lubrication... Much depends on how much olive oil is used. If you grease the dough with the thinnest layer, the crust is slightly crispy, almost like a baguette. If you do not spare the oil, then the bread is saturated with it, becomes aromatic and soft, more like focaccia.

Misha fota. Completely here 🔗

[Klimola]

Klimola, it was about the vegetable oil in this recipe that I had questions, because in all ciabette recipes, olive oil is an essential component, and it is mixed in at the end of the batch, drop by drop. But none of Misha's (Livejournal) recipes, and he has several, has no butter. I thought that this was due to the fact that in order to mix oil with water, you still need a batch, which is not here. But here Frost thinks differently and always adds sunflower oil and she's doing very well. Look at the 1st page of this topic, she wrote about it in detail there. In her footsteps, I also added 2 tbsp. l. sub. oils. It turned out fine, at least not worse, but it seems not better.Try it, tell me.
Good luck!

kisuri, I only pour olive into the ciabatta, and it's okay, everything is mixed.
But to grease the baking right away, I risked your erasing (I will report on that topic a little later). I highly recommend - olive oil with freshly squeezed garlic. Well, in short, I'll show you later.

[Frost]

Frost!
Oh, already drooling. I'm waiting for the report.
IRR, about greasing from above - there are no questions, the only question is: how would the neighbors not come running to the smell, especially if with garlic or - here I have our, forum Misha's recipe for oil on rosemary:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8946.0, made and use constantly, even in ordinary bread.
And the question Klimoly - Klimola, did I understand correctly? - about the oil in the dough itself. We are with Frost this topic was discussed at the beginning, on page 1. I am wondering why there is no butter in any recipe of whole-grain bread, even in ciabetta, in which, if it is mixed, it always has it. Maybe it is not so important, who wants to - adds that. But still there is a certain mystery here, right?

[Klimoly]

And the question Klimoly - Klimola, did I understand correctly? - about the oil in the dough itself. We are with Frost this topic was discussed at the beginning, on page 1. I am wondering why there is no butter in any recipe of whole-grain bread, even in ciabetta, which, if it is mixed, always has it. Maybe it is not so important, who wants to - adds that. But still there is a certain mystery here, right?

kisuri, I also thought about this topic. for the purity of the experiment, I need to bake a ciabatta WITHOUT OIL and washed WITH OIL.
I baked the ciabatta with butter, but washed without. So, I liked the washed crumb more - drier and more airy. but, the consistency of the dough is very different, the ciabatta is twice as soft.
I don’t promise quickly, but I will definitely do it - and I will report!

Thanks for answers.
Yes, I want to taste the butter in the dough itself. And I grease the crust after I remove the lid.

OH!!! What are the holes in Misha's photo !!!!!!!

[Klimola]

Klimola, Misha generally has a pretty good site, and very understandable, all his bread turns out! You will see, a little experience - and you will be no worse. For some reason, it seems to me that Misha is too weak to make a ciabetta out of corn flour, and even press it down with a lid. Nothing would come of it!
Frost, I will look forward to the results of the experiment. I also want to try different options, but there are too many of them, and I want to, and this ... Probably, we need to calm down for a while, otherwise there is no one to have all this

[kisuri]

Oh,kisuriHow you amused me about Mishino weakly !!!! Just don’t tell him what I’m doing here !!! (joke)
Why am I not afraid to mix the immiscible? Because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IN THIS !!!! And I cannot foresee the result. I am mastering the "scientific poke method".
So I still have no HP! Oh-oh-oh will be when it appears!
Moreover, my husband, seeing my first failed cake, said: "The first bread is a pancake !!!"

[Klimolochka]

You know, KlimolochkaI am quite sure that thenthat you are not afraid, that you try different things, risking getting an inedible result and "compliments" from your relatives - this is the most important thing and this is a guarantee that you will succeed - in a bread machine or without. Every time I have something not it turned out, it was the best experience for me, but only if you are not afraid to try again.
And how hard it is to throw away the bread !!! Isn't it true? - Our attitude to bread is special, whatever one may say. Until we bought HP (my husband caught fire), it never occurred to me that I could bake bread at home! It seemed to me some kind of magic. And when IT began to work out or NOT work out ... I sometimes say to myself: take a rest, dear, otherwise you already have a roof

And I won't gossip about you to Misha, I promise, especially since I have no connection with him - well, nothing at all.

I still believe that bread baking is magic. He dreams of HP very much, but for several months now "circumstances have arisen." Therefore, I decided not to wait, but to try out a not very complicated recipe. You have seen the result.They'll give me heating, I'll try something more complicated, otherwise it's cold at home, I'm afraid there will be problems with the test.
And we don't throw away the bread. We even ate "First Bread with Pancake".

Moreover, my husband, seeing my first failed cake, said: "The first bread is a pancake !!!"

[Klimola]

By the way, this is not such a simple recipe, Klimola - which you have chosen to start. It seems simple, but you need to be able to work with this batter, fold it, bake it with steam - even under the lid.
Good luck and new bread
IRR
I completely agree

[Klimola]

By the way, this is not such a simple recipe, Klimola - which you have chosen to start. It seems simple, but you need to be able to work with this batter, fold it, bake it with steam - even under the lid.

Here I am with you kisuri , completely consonant

I tried to bake this recipe. The dough came up very well, but became obscenely liquid. It spread all over the table, I barely collected it in a heap. I had to bake this liquid mass in a glass form. The proofing went well again, but when I put it in the oven, it sagged a little. When I removed the lid, I smeared it with olive oil, garlic and Mediterranean herbs. Here's what happened. Generally delicious



I am interested in: Does everyone have such a liquid dough at the exit, or did I do something wrong?

[Rusya!]

I am interested in: Does everyone have such a liquid dough at the exit, or did I do something wrong?

Rusya! Misha words and photos. Compare

2. Sprinkle generously with flour, pour it out (I'm not kidding) put the dough on it and gently wrap it over yourself with your hand or a scraper several times until the dough almost pulls up. Lightly brush the top of the dough with olive oil and sprinkle with coarse salt (about ¼ tsp).



left plate - immediately after kneading, right - after 12 hours of proofing.

Ladies, based on their own experience of dealing with batter dough for "Italian" bread, it is better to dump the dough on a richly greased table and work with greased hands, there will be less trouble ...

[IRR]

IRR , huh, so it should be so. We will try again. It remains to get used to baking it, I have no stone, but I have already given my husband the task to find a stone. And yet, my holes are not very big, what could it be?
himichka , I will consider.

[it's important for me,]

[yet, my holes are not very large, what could it be?

I will write WHAT exactly it's important for me, when I make bread-free bread - good * non-cool kneading *, full-fledged proofing (at least 2-3 times) and temperature regime - first moisten and give +250 g, and then reduce and bake by 180-200 ... If some stage is not followed, a stable result may not be achieved. I finally get a ciabbata every other time (in the sense of big holes), but always a stack. Rusya! Try a stack, but follow exactly * in Misha's footsteps * - you won't regret it! There are more crispy crusts. and holes too.

ry. sy. And someone says that this is a light dough It's just that someone already has a hand and an eye full - a sign of skill, Congratulations.

[it's important for me,]

I will write WHAT exactly it's important for me, when I make bread-free bread - good * non-cool kneading *, full proofing (at least 2-3 times) and temperature regime ...

Don't forget to fold !!! No wonder Misha, Lyudmila and other Masters pay special attention to this. Folding strengthens the gluten of the dough and gives the bread a taut, taut surface. We didn't have any kneading in this ciabatta, the gluten threads (think - THREADS !!!) are not developed. so we stretch the dough, thereby pulling the THREAD. When I do this, I can see with my own eyes how they stretch out. Well, after that, it's not even chemistry, but physics: in the oven, when heated, gases expand and inflate the dough like a balloon. Hence the holes.

[ALL]

Don't forget to fold !!! ;

then it turns out that ALL important

I missed folding (forming), because for me personally, it's not difficult. (and everything else is three whales, shuffle)

[IRR]

IRR, that's when I missed folding, but just tucked in the edges (well, I don't know how to describe it) - I didn't get such holes. That is why I pay attention to this moment.

[Frost!]

Frost!
All the way! When you wrote about THREAD, and also about THINK, I just saw the light! true true

Oh, girls, while I was writing an answer about folding-pulling, vu everything is already so cool and accurately described that there is nothing to add. I can only say that the same Misha has "Baguettes without kneading", so there is no long fermentation, only folding, and in 3.5 hours a magic dough is obtained. I did, just a miracle.

[kisuri]

kisuri, so I saw these threads only in this recipe! Until now, no matter how much I baked, I did not see so clearly. And now I add as much as I can in rye breads with wheat flour in order to stretch these threads to the maximum.

Yesterday I baked HER. The dough fits well, but the oven is bad, and the ciabatta did not fit in it. Although such a grin. I can look for a stone. How many times do you need to add? and how much to pull? And yet, forgive me if I ask a funny thing - is Misha a famous baker? Lives in America? Thank you

[Pakatic]

e, forgive me if I ask a funny thing - is Misha a famous baker? Lives in America?

Yeah. In it. More precisely, in Chicago. And Lyudmila is in Toronto, where Pasha is ours, Pakatic sack.

[simfira!]

Hi, simfira!
Nothing funny, there are so many bread and other culinary sites out there that it’s simple, easy to get lost. I like Misha (who is American) because he has all the descriptions detailed and UNDERSTANDING, and everything comes out of him, at least so far it has always worked out. He's here:
So that there is no confusion: here at the Forum there is our forum Misha, I also really love her pages.

Yesterday I baked HER. The dough fits well, but the oven is bad, and the ciabatta did not fit in it. Although such a grin. I can look for a stone. How many times do you need to add? and how much to pull?

You need to fold a couple of times, while slightly pulling out enough to "reach the second edge, like this:



And then the same on the other side:



The fact that it did not fit in the oven may be due to the fact that it has risen too much, fermented, then it does not grow in the oven or even falls down. That could be the reason too, not just your oven. A stone is very good, but it works even without a stone. Try a covered oven or cauldron.

And this is how they look after proofing:



And finished:

[Misha]

Virgin! Translated article Misha from Mark Bittman - about our whole-grain breads. At the forefront is still proofing for 12-18 hours, and molding for only 30 seconds. Explains why. Read, very interesting about baking in a hot pot and about getting a thin crispy crust.
🔗

kisuri, IRR, thanks, I will train. And also, I saw somewhere they were collecting orders for a stone, I can't find it, poke a meme. And is he (the stone) really needed in the household or not?

And yet, how to understand that this is the peak of proofing and not overexpose?

[simfira]

kisuri, IRR, thanks, I will train. And also, I saw somewhere they were collecting orders for a stone, I can't find it, poke a meme. And is he (the stone) really needed in the household or not?

And yet, how to understand that this is the peak of proofing and not to overexpose?

simfira, about the stone: this is a very good thing, on it, of course, the ciabetta turns out to be very beautiful, I cover them with a cauldron when baking (I still have my grandmother's made of duralumin) and they swell there, and the crust is thin - well, you can see it above in the photo. But there are downsides, of course. He eats electricity - I don't even know how much! It needs to be heated for half an hour until 250 * - and this is only before baking, and then baking too ... As for what it is for - here, on this topic, on page 9 Admin explained. In short, it is possible without him on the farm. I think .
How to understand that the peak of proofing is probably a matter of experience. I used to think that the more bread grows during proofing, the better, but it just sour, it went all over in bubbles, I don't even know how to explain it. And he sat down when baking, of course. And then I realized, and of course I read it at the Forum), that it should not grow more than twice, and ciabetta even 1.5 times. Look at the photos above - they did not grow so much in an hour, but only rounded up, almost. And it turned out fine. Can anyone else tell me ...
IRR
Thank you

kisuri? Thank you. Workout and workout again

HURRAH!!!
I finally did it the third time !!!!
My first test, the stove could not stand it and burned out, the second I baked in a cauldron and managed not to put baking paper there, I had to crumble it piece by piece. Well, as they say "God loves a trinity" here

and that's in the context

I very much surprised my pets with this bread!
Thanks a lot for the recipe!

[DJ]

DJ
Uuh, good! And the holes, some holes! Congratulations on the victory !!! You "made" it !!! Smart girl 🔗!!!

[DJ]

DJ ,
what holes!

[DJ]

DJ! Beautiful
I have a question for filling: how did you, when you baked for the second time, without baking paper, transfer it to the cauldron?

[Krosh, Mila007, kisuri]

Krosh, Mila007, kisuri Thank you! I am so glad myself !!!
kisuri after 12 o'clock, I kneaded it with my handles and put the rasstavatsya immediately in the cauldron for an hour, and in the oven. (smiley beating against the wall) You must be able to!

[Dj]

Then it is understandable why she stuck tightly to the cauldron. If the bread is transferred to a cauldron heated with the oven, it does not stick even without baking paper. But the ciabatta cannot be transferred anywhere, the dough is absolutely liquid, it will flow through your fingers. Therefore, you had to knead it, and from this it loses half of the holes. You are just a genius Dj, if after that you still have something.
After 12 hours of fermentation, try pouring the dough onto baking paper, thickly sprinkled with flour, carefully fold it with your hands in flour or with a scraper - pull it up on one side, and then on the other - and do not touch it again! Allow to distance and transfer directly on paper to a cauldron heated with the oven. And the oven, first under the lid, and then without.
If you decide on such an experiment, then tell me what happened, okay?

[kisuri]

kisuri maybe I'll take a chance!
At least I want to bake it more often, the bread from the bread machine is already boring.

[DJ!]

DJ! For victory!

[Ira,]

Ira, Thank you!!

On the sixth! attempts turned out I have the correct ciabatta.
So as not to disturb the dough once again, after molding, I put it in a greased form made of heat-resistant glass (such bowls-pots for the microwave, which are covered with each other) Just 2 things came out. There they stood for an hour, covered them with glass saucepans and into the oven. It turned out, lagged behind slightly, the crust crunched.
In general, they diminished in a day, moaning with pleasure

Hello everyone!!!! I'm new to the forum.
kisuri, thank you very much for the recipe, this is the second time I make this the best of all the breads that I have baked. the taste.
zorry, by the way, I also baked such forms in a duck, and I don't cover the second bread on a baking sheet made of the same glass, these breads seem to have no difference

[SnezhkaPro, zorry]

SnezhkaPro, zorry , girls, I also thought about the glass form, but I am alarmed by the fact that this form needs to be put in a preheated oven. What do you think? You put it in a preheated oven, right? I'm afraid the glass mold would not crack.

Rusya, I put it in a heated one, nothing happened