uberipuzo


such an expensive bifidumbacterin I bought 50 km from the Kremlin
I won't buy anymore
this is a lottery

I didn't save either - and in the end I lost 600r
now - I will save ...
))))))))))))
uberipuzo


streptosan - probably - also a rarity?
Rina
Quote: uberipuzo

streptosan - probably - also a rarity?

In Kiev, you can buy quite freely (only, as they say, you need to know the places).

And I have been looking at this Israeli yogurt maker for a long time. I would buy this one too, but we have everything with jars.
clv
Quote: vorona

I knead dry powder on "narin", there first a working leaven is made (instructions are attached), and then I ferment yogut on it, everything turns out great. I don’t do anything on Danone products, because I live on the other end of Russia and Danone is brought to us a little alive, but our local dairy producers have products prepared with the same bacteria as Danone, only they have a 5-7 days selling period (as it should be for a live product) and they are always fresh
I probably made yogurt on such a "Narin" (in a green box), it worked out well too, but only once I managed to buy one box and that's it ... there are no more in pharmacies and I don't meet, I go, I call there regularly. we also have local products "bifidum", now I take them to my daughter, but storage in stores leaves much to be desired, they often come across, bloated and the doctor told me to give only today's sour milk, and they are often yesterday's ... and if you try on normoflorin .. has anyone tried it?
clv
Quote: uberipuzo


for the treatment of dysbiosis, also use prebiotics: lactulose (duphalac) and inulin


Thanks for the answer, I haven’t heard about inulin - I’ll find out, but we gave duphalac to the child for constipation, and several doctors said it’s better not to mess with him at all, give a maximum of a couple of times, because it is addictive.
uberipuzo
Quote: klv

Thanks for the answer, I haven’t heard about inulin - I’ll find out, but we gave duphalac to the child for constipation, and several doctors said it’s better not to mess with him at all, give a maximum of a couple of times, because it is addictive.
I am not ready to comment on the words of doctors, I will only say what I know:
active ingredient of duphalac - lactulose
lactulose is used as a prebiotic for the treatment of dysbiosis, at high doses it can cause a laxative effect
duphalac is also used in the treatment of hepatic encephalopathy - by normalizing microflora
on the drugs prelax and lactusan with lactulose it is written like this: prebiotic

lactulose - an oligosaccharide, a compound of fructose and galactose, is not broken down in the small intestine, therefore it reaches the large intestine, where beneficial bacteria feed on it and therefore multiply rapidly, sometimes 1000 times and the microflora improves

if you want to read about dysbiosis and drugs, go to my blog, the address is in my profile, there is a selection of articles

and any substance can cause a laxative effect in an overdose

for example - sorbitol is a sugar substitute, if you eat a lot of it, it causes diarrhea

and if you eat a spoonful a day, then it also acts as a prebiotic, improves microflora

Duphalac can be taken without addiction for 6 months - as it is written on the website of Solway Pharma
they have been producing duphalac since the 30s

I drink 2 teaspoons of duphalac a day for prevention
I had a severe allergy to flowering earlier in the summer - and when I established microflora, the allergy was gone
duphalac also helps to establish microflora
mageta
Quote: uberipuzo


for the treatment of dysbiosis, also use prebiotics: lactulose (duphalac) and inulin

Thank you so much! I will definitely consider and try! What happened then I'll write.
As for the yogurt maker, I have to disagree with you that it is not needed.
The fact that this is a rather primitive device, no one argues with this. Only the trouble is that not everyone has a temperature regime in a room or in the kitchen, even using a battery, allows you to get a high-quality product in a bank every time. 5 years ago I reasoned the same way as you did. What will I pay when I can do it anyway? But when I didn’t ferment once, then another one again, and yogurt was vital, there was a command from my husband “not to suffer garbage.” After all, I tried to do it in banks and in a thermos ... It doesn't always work out and it's inconvenient!
And as to why yogurt does not work in yogurt makers, the temperature is supposedly higher, so this passport must be read carefully! The fact is that the initial conditions are set differently for different companies producing yoghurt makers.
For Tefal, milk should be cold, and many put warm milk in it, and then wonder why the yogurt did not work out. Tefal full automatic machine. But Mulinex - there is a timer, you yourself appoint how much time you need to make yogurt, and milk should be put into it at a temperature of at least 36-37 degrees. That's all. If you follow these simplest technological nuances, everything will be gut. And the yogurt maker is corny convenient for its portioned jars. She took it out, warmed it up a little, and fed the child.
And about children's or non-children's store yoghurts I can only say one thing. I have a couple of friends who work at our dairy factories. So they strictly forbade me to buy these yoghurts for children and for themselves. They explain it by the fact that they see what these yoghurts are made of, and in no case are they advised to buy them from their acquaintances.
Once again about milk. In my experience, sterilized milk produces yoghurts worse than standardized milk. I don’t know why ... But after being burned several times, I don’t buy sterilized for yogurt at all. I try to buy 3.2% normalized milk - I like this milk more.
Some of the girls asked in detail how to make yogurt in a yogurt maker so that children could be treated for dysbiosis.
1. I buy normalized milk, no more than 5-6 days of shelf life - 2 bags.
2. I boil the 1st package, about what the temperature of milk with different yogurt makers should be - I wrote above.
3. I take different bacteria. For example, one more recipe - 1 jar of bifidumbacterin, 4 capsules of Acipol. I open the capsules, and pour the powder from them into the milk. I pour a little milk into a jar of bifidum, breed bacteria, and also pour it into milk. Be sure to thoroughly stir everything with a whisk.
4. I pour the milk with the bacteria mixed in it into jars, and put it in a yogurt maker without lids. Still, I repeat once again: in Tefal it is cold, in Mulinex it is 36-37 degrees, not lower.
5. For Tefal, after 6-8 hours, if the leaven is not fermented, press the button again. And wait another 6 hours.
Mulinex - it is better to set the timer at once for 10 hours. The other day my friend bought a Mulinex yogurt maker and just lactobacterin at the pharmacy. She boiled the milk, cooled it to 37-38 degrees, poured 2 jars of lactobacterin into it, stirred it and set the timer for 10 hours. The leaven turned out to be such that the spoon just stands. She was just wildly delighted that the first time she succeeded.
6. When the starter is ready, pour it into one liter jar and send it to the refrigerator.
7. Take another carton of milk, boil, cool as for the sourdough, and the sourdough from the refrigerator - at least 8 teaspoons. Then you yourself will experiment as much as necessary. Stir milk with sourdough again, and in jars into a yogurt maker.
8. In 5-6 hours you should have a wonderful yogurt.
In general, that's all. And experience will slowly come in the process of experimenting.
Pysy.And the bread maker is wonderful! We don't live without our own bread at all, especially rye ... And I can't eat store bread at all ... It's also stuffed with the wrong thing ...
Lily
Sorry if I'm not getting into my topic (I have neither a yogurt maker nor children)! But I want to express my opinion. In my opinion, baby yoghurts are ex. lusciously sweet taste from adults. And I also noticed that people working in the food industry always scold him in front of their friends. their products. So I think that if someone from the forum participants had a friend, a slave. in the farm. company production bacteria, then he would advise in no case to buy this muck in ampoules!
mageta
On the advice of uberipuzo, yesterday I went to a very good municipal pharmacy, where you can buy a lot. Inulin and Duphalac asked. I was most interested in inulin. The pharmacist made a lot of round eyes and said that she had never heard this.
Uberipuzo, tell me, where in Moscow did you buy this miracle at the pharmacy?
By the way, observations from life.
My cat does not even lead to store yogurt. The child sometimes carries from school, they give out for breakfast. But if we start having breakfast, the cat is hysterical, and he pours out my homemade yogurt. And also, by the way, horror loves homemade black bread. Looks like cats can smell where the natural product is, and where not
By the way, in one place I found a description that the Scarlett yogurt maker is 1 liter, only until I saw her.
And here is another interesting model, uberipuzo, take a look 🔗
Chantal
duphalac in any pharmacy, I don't know about inulin, I was not interested
No, I was already interested - in the network of Vita pharmacies, inulin forte from tapinambur tubers (are you sure about that?) 100 tabs - about 100 rubles.
uberipuzo
I used to buy inulin (or inulin forte?) at vdnkh in the health pavilion
when was it convenient to go there
then bought at the local pharmacy
then tired of eating all these dietary supplements, maybe the allergy seems to have receded
recently got carried away with homemade yoghurts and began to read sites on this topic and again remembered about inulin
it is found in chicory, garlic, Jerusalem artichoke and many more plants
it is added to Ermann prebiotic yogurt
I bought one pack of inulin-forte in a local pharmacy for 89r 100tab of 0.3g of inulin in 1tab
it turns out a little expensive
duphalac took 0.5l 430r

but ordinary sorbitol can also serve as a prebiotic - bacteria love it too

the main rule when using duphalac and sorbitol is not to get carried away, 1-2 teaspoons a day is enough, otherwise a laxative effect will appear

about yogurt makers Severin and Scarlett, thanks, I read it before
I hope they are on sale, otherwise after the crisis in stores, probably a ball ...
clv
people, I ask for advice! fermented lactobacterin and bifidobacterin milk, did everything as described here. ten hours passed - no result, only a yellow film on top, took it off with a boiled spoon and put it back, after 4 hours - milk, spat, left everything as it is and left. Now I looked - and in the jars it looked like a sourdough, thick, in one jar even whey was separated .. but 24 hours have passed! Should I be happy or not? 24 hours isn't too long? maybe it's just sour milk? or until the bacterins reach the Far East, they get so sick that they fall asleep, that then you won't wake them up for a day?
2 ampoules of bifidobacterin and 1 lactobacterin per half liter of milk
I made moulinex in a yogurt maker with good warm milk
fugaska
and what did you do? in a yogurt maker? in a slow cooker? how was the temperature maintained?
obgorka_gu


it is possible that the bacteria are no longer active, try again with warm milk (if done with cold milk) or increase the number of ampoules per liter. Normally, 5-12 hours is enough, if the leaven is active sometimes even after 3 hours it is already fermented. And a day is, in my opinion, an ordinary yogurt ...
obgorka_gu
Quote: klv

I made moulinex in a yogurt maker with good warm milk

then exactly the sourdough garbage (IMHO), you see in the pharmacy they store it without observing the norm
fugaska
definitely let the leaven disappoint ...such an amount and only half a liter of milk should have worked with a bang! try on linex, you don't need to store it in the refrigerator, it might work ...
clv
yeah .. I already half a year earlier almost every day, now less often I ferment milk with bacterins and nothing has ever worked out ... the most annoying thing is that I once treated an infant with them ... in vain I suffered myself, giving them every 2 hour and a child ... but how to dilute the linex, does it dissolve at all?
Caprice
Please do not hit me with slippers, but according to my observations, the initial fermentation of milk with dry starter cultures always takes much longer than usual. But in the end, something turns out the same. Now try to ferment the next portion with what happened. The process will go faster the second time
uberipuzo
to treat with dry preparations is considered nonsense
I have already quoted here and found a few more articles - they are on my blogs
1 bacteria die in the acidic environment of the stomach
2 even if 10% of them survive, it is due to the fact that they quickly move through the intestines of a child or adult with diarrhea - they do not have time to catch on the intestinal walls and go to the toilet
3 even if the bacteria linger in the intestines, they are still dormant and do not work
and go to the toilet
4 even if they start working, they cannot compete with native bacteria
and go ..... where? right.....
linex works more or less - it has a shell that protects against kilota in the stomach
but this action is temporary, while the drug is being taken, but its own microflora is not restored
the most effective method of treating dysbiosis is the use of prebiotics
and dry preparations are not even suitable for fermenting milk - maybe it's a lottery
there were many complaints in this thread that 2 ampoules out of 10 work
Caprice
Quote: uberipuzo

and dry preparations are not even suitable for fermenting milk - maybe it's a lottery
there were many complaints in this thread that 2 ampoules out of 10 work
Well I do not know. I constantly ferment with dry probiotic. There have never been any punctures. I store the capsules at room temperature. I just pulled out another portion of yogurt from the yogurt maker, which I made for the first time after a two-week break, and therefore fermented with dry capsules.
Caprice
It's just that this is not the first probiotic that I buy at the pharmacy and ferment yogurt with it. And so far, TTT, there have been no punctures. Maybe the question is patience? I previously wrote that fermentation with dry probiotic takes several baboutmore time than liquid leaven. So it’s worth repeating: first, prepare a leaven from dry matter, no matter how long it takes, then prepare yogurt from the previously prepared leaven.
clv
talked with a specialist who did the child a bacteriological study of the intestinal microflora, she said that the best treatment is probiotics + enzymes + vitamins. She allowed me to make yoghurt using bacterins, but give the child only the leaven obtained on the first day of cooking. the product obtained with the help of sourdough and milk is not allowed, because there is no sterility in the house. conditions, even I did not advise this to eat. Then I went to see the candidate honey. Sci., a leading researcher at the Institute of Epidemiology and Microbiology, she generally said not to do anything on bacterins, they are not intended for this, to do only on dry leavens, on which it is directly written that they are for making leaven. The problem is that I found such a leaven only once in one copy. By the way, about the linex. When I gave them water to the child, there was no effect, and after the bifiform, the child feels better. I have heard more than once that linex does not help, probably, our conditions of transportation and storage are not observed here ..
mageta
Thank you uberipuzo, I will go to VDNKh for inulin.
I 100% agree with you about the treatment with dry drugs.
My personal observations. My son was three months old when I started giving him dry bifidumbacterin and lactobacterin. A month has passed - there are no changes at all. And his dysbiosis was such that there was a terrible crust on his cheek, which did not disappear at all, and the son did not sleep at all and was constantly crying (apparently, the tummy was very disturbing). When I, hanging out on the Internet, accidentally read in just one place that a woman pulled a child out of a terrible dysbiosis by making yoghurts using bifidumbacterin and others, we instantly bought a yogurt maker and after 2.5 - 3 weeks the first changes appeared. This hellish crust began to gradually decrease.
Forgive me, I don't know what the doctors are saying, I'm not interested, I have a sad experience of communicating with them. Instead of treatment, doctors and my children had huge problems, which then I had to solve through my knowledge and chatting on the Internet. I'll put it this way. I have been making yoghurts for 5 years. My son is 5 years old. No one will say that he now has dysbiosis. He's gone! He eats whatever he wants, when he wants. He has no allergies, no diseases. But with colds, perhaps it will be a little weaker - that's all. I compare this with my eldest son, who was fed on breast milk for a long time and, at the age of 11, does not know what antibiotics are at all. She saved. So doctors can say a lot of things, and this is not always true. If you want to go out, you will try everything. Because life will force. And a neighbor next to her wandered to an institute in Moscow that treats dysbacteriosis (I don't remember its name). A lot of money has been given, the girl is 10 years old, and I would not say that she has completely recovered from dysbiosis ...
Concerning the leaven. Yes, maybe old. Our pharmacies sometimes get on with it. Unfortunately it is. I once spoke with the head of a pharmacy, she said that pharmacies know very well where, what medicines they take. And they know perfectly well whether they are overdue, fake or not. It may well be that overdue. And also try to make the sourdough again - by raising the temperature to 38-40 degrees and add a tablespoon of sour cream to the bifidum and lacto. I sometimes use it to speed up the spilling of the leaven.
cheerful
caprise how many ampoules and how much do you put? I have a probitik in one capsule of 5 billion "animals". I suffer how much to put
uberipuzo
Quote: mageta

Thank you uberipuzo, I will go to VDNKh for inulin.

inulin is not so simple
in the articles in which I read about it, they write that it should be consumed at 12-15g per day

and in one tablet it is 0.3g - which means you need to eat 50 tabs a day (half a pack)
absurd
on the pack it is written 3tab 3 times a day

now I'm reading about another prebiotic - fibregam
this is ordinary gum arabic

but it was renamed fibregam and it is sold at an overpriced price, and you can't get simple gum arabic

inulin was also renamed to raftilin

this is business ....
mageta
And again, experimentally, we will try to crush a couple of tablets, and add the leaven to the bacteria at the time of preparation. What can't you do for the sake of your own child, to increase immunity ... For some reason I think that something should work out. And if you don't experiment, then nothing will ever happen ...
uberipuzo
so 2 tablets are not enough! in 2 tablets 0.6g
and prebiotics should not be fed with bacteria from ferments, but with the child's own bacteria, so that there are more of them
uberipuzo


yesterday I found articles about koumiss and kefir
they differ from yoghurts and bifidocas by the presence of alcoholic fermentation bacteria in addition to lactic fermentation bacteria
their therapeutic effect in dysbiosis is very pronounced

there was just described a case with a crust, etc.

but real kumis is very difficult to acquire
uberipuzo
i tried it
very long and time consuming process
something worked out, but all this fuss is not worth the result
this once again confirms that the bacteria in the preparations are weak and cannot have a therapeutic effect

and I'm trying to focus the attention of the readers of this topic not on the fact that I didn't get yogurt

I want to tell everyone that trying to treat dysbiosis with dry preparations is a waste of time, health and money

otherwise people trust doctors and pharmacists, but the acquisition of dry bacteria is a lottery
clv
HURRAH!!! Yesterday or the day before yesterday I made a leaven on bacterins, everything thickened in a day. At the forum I was told that 24 hours is a lot, this is yogurt, and I did not try anything, because I recently had a baby and while nursing I am afraid to try at least something on myself. I put everything in the refrigerator and gave my husband a try today. He said that this is not yogurt, but the same sour milk that we buy here from the local "Bifidum". He spent his childhood in the village and knows the taste and appearance of yogurt well, so I have every reason to believe him. While I will wait for the reaction of his body, if everything is normal, I will jump for joy. I did so much, but it turns out you just have to wait longer ...
Chantal
uberipuzo, in general, the doctor's answer has its own logic in a one-day sourdough, there is a high probability that exactly what is needed has grown (it has been repeatedly said that after several fermentation, ordinary yogurt is obtained) about sterility - IMHO is simply reinsured, she will say that mommy can nourish something or something ( pokes a dirty finger into the jar to check the temperature - these are the ones) travanet the child and the doctor will be to blame - she advised

This is how I got mushroom yogurt, right, crossaffcheg?

that's just the taste of sour turned out to be now I will experiment with temperature and time

grib.gif
Yogurt with bacterial starter cultures (narine, Vivo, etc.)
uberipuzo


1 I did not question the correctness of a one-time sourdough culture
I ferment this way myself
and about the resulting curdled milk after 3 times of using acidophilus - I wrote this

I put the numbers in precisely those phrases - which I criticized

2 I understand it myself
but then the child's illness with dysbiosis can be attributed to the lack of sterility - and not to antibiotic treatment

the doctors settled well, they are not guilty of anything ...

3 what is mushroom yogurt?
what is it from?
Chantal
Doctors are now scared, they are already afraid to prescribe treatment - I had to confront this position several times - if you want to prescribe this medicine (injections, procedures, inpatient treatment, etc.), but if you don't want to - whatever nonsense you want! How can I, without special education, judge which treatment in this case will be the most appropriate ??

mushroom kefir from kefir mushroom (milk, Tibetan), like this:

portret griba.jpg
Yogurt with bacterial starter cultures (narine, Vivo, etc.)
Caprice
Quote: Cheerful

caprise how many ampoules and how much do you put? I have a probitik in one capsule of 5 billion "animals". I suffer how much to put
My nickname is Caprice.
In one of the previous posts, I posted a photo of a probiotic. I put 6 capsules on the initial starter culture.
And here are how many "animals", as you called them, in my probiotic

acidophilus - 1.5 billion
Bulgaricus - 1.5 billion
bifidum - 1.5 billion
thermophilus - 1.5 billion

All in all, 6 billion.
Kosha
People!
Concerning dysbiosis ...
I have experience in treating an infant. Now every first baby is diagnosed with this, including my daughter. We all had this against the background of severe lactase deficiency (the body could not produce enzymes that break down milk sugar, so any dairy products caused severe pain and fermentation in the intestines).
The doctor said unequivocally: "Dry bacteria for an infant is money down the drain." Yoghurts and kefirs are not allowed for a child under 7 months old, and against the background of severe lactase deficiency, in principle, it is impossible.

How were they treated ... Once a month we went to the Institute of Gabrichevsky, where they bought "Normoflorin". These are living bacteria in liquid form. There are both lacto and beefy options.
Now this drug can be bought in many pharmacies, but, as with other pharmaceutical preparations, the presence of beneficial bacteria depends on the correct storage.
🔗
Lenusya


Now I make yoghurt only on Yogulakta. Not a single puncture, excellent taste (I have been striving for this for a long time) and consistency.

🔗

The microorganisms that make up Yogulact retain their viability in the acidic environment of the stomach: when cultivated in an environment with pH = 3.0 and a temperature of 37 ° C for 3 hours, the number of live bacteria remains unchanged, which makes it possible, if it is impossible to swallow the capsule whole (for example, when prescribing infants) take only the powder contained inside the capsule (no gelatinous shell).

PS Please do not rush with slippers: recently our doctor said that there is no such disease "dysbiosis".

And on the Internet I found a lot of evidence of this:

🔗
1. In the international classification of diseases adopted by WHO, the word "dysbiosis" is absent. It is very difficult to find it (this word) in special literature outside the CIS. In the overwhelming majority of developed countries, medical workers do not know the diagnosis of "dysbiosis" and "analysis of feces for dysbiosis."

🔗

Dysbacteriosis: how to treat a non-existent disease

Gastroenterologist, candidate of medical sciences Vladimir Vladimirovich Vasilenko answers questions about dysbiosis.

The doctor diagnosed me with dysbiosis. I did not find such a disease in the medical encyclopedia. Please tell us what it is and how is it treated?
A. Luzhin, St. Petersburg

The question is answered by the gastroenterologist Vladimir Vladimirovich Vasilenko.

Is there a diagnosis?

In RUSSIAN medicine, colon dysbiosis is usually called a special chronic condition leading to numerous extraintestinal complications, which must be treated by "planting" certain microbes. Judging by the numerous requests of patients to us, dysbiosis is perhaps the most common disease, although not a word is said about it in the normative document of the Ministry of Health of the Russian Federation "Standards (protocols) for the diagnosis and treatment of diseases of the digestive system", approved by order of the Ministry of Health of the Russian Federation No. 125 of 17.04 .98. When working in the gastroenterological field, doctors of state medical and prophylactic institutions should be guided by this document, which contains recommendations on the tactics of managing patients with 35 most common diseases and pathological conditions of the digestive system.

Most of the leading Russian gastroenterologists a few years ago admitted that the diagnosis of intestinal dysbiosis has no clinical component, to put it simply, there is no such disease, and that's it.

Dysbacteriosis in children

BECAUSE of the fact that dysbacteriosis as a disease does not exist, you can overdo it with its treatment. Insist that the pediatrician clearly formulates the diagnosis in accordance with the existing requirements and standards. And if you want to help your child with constipation and intestinal disorders, read the book "Child and Care" by the world famous and respected pediatrician Benjamin Spock.

In Moshkov's library: - it "weighs" 1 MB.

What is dysbiosis confused with?

Dysbacteriosis is a purely bacteriological concept, and its "correction" has nothing to do with healing. The bacterial balance is restored on its own, even if you are taking antibiotics. The intestine is a self-organizing system! Eat fruits, eat vegetables, and everything will be great!

Unpleasant sensations (increased gas formation, bubbling in the intestines, etc.), which are caused by excessive growth of intestinal flora, in most cases are easily suppressed by intestinal antiseptics - sulgin and phthalazole. They themselves are hardly absorbed and practically do not cause side effects.

Doctors who diagnose "dysbiosis" recommend regulating the balance of the intestinal flora by ingestion of biological, bacterial preparations. In fact, there are few indications for antibiotic therapy. It is bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine; the presence of inflammatory changes in the mucous membrane; identification of conditionally pathogenic microflora in crops of intestinal contents.

Actual violations of the qualitative and quantitative composition of the intestinal microflora, in particular, an increase in the bacterial content in the small intestine from normal 104 / ml (jejunum) to 106 / ml and above, is a syndrome of bacterial overgrowth. It can occur when the nature of nutrition changes sharply, the movement of digested food through the intestines slows down, the secretion of digestive juices is disrupted, the normal flora is suppressed by the intake of antibacterial agents acting at the intestinal level. Externally, the syndrome of bacterial overgrowth is manifested by diarrhea. But it is, of course, impossible to make a diagnosis on this basis alone. Treatment consists of targeting the underlying disease causing bacterial overgrowth.

The diagnosis of "intestinal dysbiosis" is usually attributed to periodic cramping pains along the colon, upset stools with a tendency to diarrhea, constipation, or their alternation. In fact, these symptoms are usually manifestations of irritable bowel syndrome or latent lactose deficiency. To detect it, a 2-3-week diet with the elimination of lactose is prescribed or a test with a load of lactose is performed. There are a number of other diseases with similar symptoms.

The diagnosis of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) can be confirmed by laboratory and ultrasound examinations. It is very difficult to treat IBS even for a gastroenterologist. The best way to deal with this problem is a good therapist who is able to carry out complex treatment: psychotherapeutic, dietary, and medicinal. About IBS, one can say 100% that this disease is "from the nerves", therefore, ideally, one should follow Dr. Botkin's call to "treat the patient, not the disease. Anger, melancholy, fear, dissatisfaction with one's job or position, excessive emotional stress, lack of information - all this causes an overstrain of the nervous system; the regulation of the work of many organs, including the digestive system, is disrupted. " According to statistics, in European countries, IBS occurs in 15 - 20% of the population, but doctors themselves admit that the real number of sufferers is even greater. It's just that the rest prefer to deal with the "delicate" problem themselves.

Try to maintain an even and benevolent mood, following the commandments of ancient philosophers: Democritus, for example, considered the ideal "euthymy" - a calm, balanced life, and Epicurus preached "ataraxia" - a serene state of mind. Jonathan Swift said that the three best doctors in the world are Dr. Diet, Dr. Peace, and Dr. Fun.

You can contact Dr. Vasilenko by email medica @

Dysbiosis tests

WHEN I am asked whether it is worth taking an analysis for dysbiosis, I answer: "It is worth it only if there is a doctor who, based on the results of the analysis, will prescribe a special treatment, and not the standard and harmless bactisubtil and hilak. They can be taken without preliminary research for 250 rubles." ...

The essence of the bacteriological examination of feces is that several types of bacteria are studied in its mass and, on the basis of this, conclusions are drawn about the most complex intestinal system, represented by more than 400 types of microorganisms. In this case, the bacterial spectrum is considered not a consequence, but a cause of systemic disorders. This is as reasonable as arguing that fever is the cause of the flu.

It is not known where the rates come from. There are no serious studies of the microflora of feces and the effect on it of age, gender, pregnancy, food and medications taken, current diseases. No one has seriously studied how quickly a return to baseline occurs after elimination of temporary factors.

Unfortunately, many doctors are still looking for the causes of most gastroenterological diseases in changes in the composition of the colon microflora.At best, they prescribe a long (and most often useless) intake of probiotics (coli- and bifidumbacterin, etc.), at worst, the patient takes antibiotics uncontrollably, risking serious complications, including intestinal complications.

Dysbiosis is not mentioned in the International Classification of Diseases. And among doctors of different specialties there is no consensus about what it is. A pediatrician, immunologist, microbiologist, allergist and infectious disease specialist will have different opinions on this topic.

Primary source: 🔗
Qween
Lenusya, thanks, this post is very interesting!

And what are we going to do now?

For example, my mother, while taking antibiotics, was prescribed "Yogurt" or "Linex" in powder. The price of such drugs is not cheap. And I bought it myself yesterday, and took it to my mother. And it comes out in vain appointed?

PS: I don't even doubt the benefits of our "homemade" yoghurts.

Lenusya
Quote: Qween


And what are we going to do now?

this was my first question. You need to eat right: vegetables, fruits, dairy products and not get nervous. After that, I realized that all the problems began after I started going to kindergarten at 2.5 years old and shouted (to put it mildly) that I didn't want to stay

In general, of course, it was strange to hear this, after 4 years of periodic treatment with a gastroenterologist for dysbacteriosis (although the pediatrician even then told me: Lena do not fool herself, everything will gradually get better, since no opportunistic and pathogenic flora was found, and this the most important thing).
So I don’t know.
I make yogurt at home. I want to find a kefir mushroom.

I wonder what he thinks about this Uncle Sam
Freken Bock
Qween , read the article. I have a different specialty, and a lot of time has passed since my study of dysbiosis at the institute. I have already heard what the article is about. I have a double attitude to this. I believe that after antibiotic treatment, a course of biologics is needed. And I saw the effect of these drugs in my practice. But too often this "diagnosis" is made. And about the "analysis of feces for dysbacteriosis" also now there is an opinion that its result is far from reality, it does not give an idea of ​​the parietal flora. I have nothing against fermented milk products, but I do not agree to consider them as a substitute for eubiotics, only part of a healthy and wholesome diet.
About taking eubiotics against the background of antibiotic therapy. Of course, this is money down the drain. But there will be no harm.

clv
I strongly disagree with the fact that antibiotics are harm. Of course, you should try to use them as rarely as possible, but I can't even imagine how you can completely abandon them. The child is bad, he is not, lies and nothing helps, and mom just sit and talk about the dangers of antibiotics and treat with herbs and bunks. means? the opinions of doctors about whether to give probiotics during or after taking antibiotics differ, I gave both during and after. there is an effect, though not from linex, but from bifiform. about analyzes and the non-existence of dysbiosis. The first time they took tests in one and a half months. found a UPF - golden stuffylococcus, treated with phage, bacterins - no effect, then the tummy itself somehow stopped disturbing. in a year the child became covered with terrible spots, as soon as they were not treated. Have passed the tests, they were worse than before. checked the sensitivity, were treated with a stronger phage (the one that we had drunk before, turned out to be nothing to us), probiotics, and began to drink sour milk. the spots disappeared in a couple of weeks, the condition became much better. and why after that the tests are invalid and the treatment of dysbiosis does not help? before that, I just didn’t try, but only this treatment gave a result. Since then we have been drinking sour milk every day. Not so long ago, just due to the fact that during the doctors did not inject antibiotics, the child lay for 8 hours under a dropper. Now the tests are very bad, there is a lot of UPF, but all the doctors say that thanks to the sour milk, the child is stronger than usual with such tests. By the way, the milk insisted on bacterins for 24 hours, it turned out to be a normal homemade sour milk.I don’t know what the fermentation time depends on, but I’m just doing it.
Pakat
4. Narrated by Arnold

Now there is advertising on Channel 1, RTR, NTV, etc. We are told that there are 10 billion lactobacilli in every can of one famous fermented milk drink. The volume of the jar of THIS MIRACLE is 100 ml.
Now let's count.
The volume of one bacterial cell, based on data from conventional biological reference books, is 10 to minus 15 degrees of a cubic meter.
Now multiply 10,000,000,000 (10 billion) by 10 to the -15 power and find the volume of that number of bacteria.
After a simple transformation with powers, we find that the volume is 10 to minus 5 powers of a cubic meter.
! ! ! ! 10 to minus 5 degrees of a cubic meter is 10 liters! ! ! !
Thus, noisy advertising on TV claims that every 100 milliliter jar of the BEVERAGE contains 10 liters of live lactobacilli! Oh, and make a fool of our brother!
Rina
In my opinion, the topic clearly departed from its name "yogurt maker" and became a lecture on ...

I can't say anything bad about the doctor who prescribed an antibiotic and hilak. Physician as a physician. An ordinary local pediatrician. The child was born by a normal method, fed exclusively on mother's milk, the temperature was only a day, the symptoms are classic viral. It's just that since deeply Soviet times there has been a habit of playing it safe - what if a bacterial infection comes out in the baby? And we had her in advance, before she appeared ... Here even the saying "We treat one thing, we cripple the other" is not particularly suitable. Because while there is nothing to treat, the bacterial infection has not appeared. And their own healthy microflora, which just should work as a barrier, has already been killed. I must clarify: every child is unique, every case is different. I do not urge to give up antibiotics, but we need to think (and we have to do it - mothers), is there even a minimal need to take antibiotics.

Why was Khilak registered? Yes, because there was his advertising campaign. For some reason, our doctors do not prescribe what is suitable for a particular patient in a particular case, but prescribe what is advertised and put on the market. Or just fashionable. How many times have I myself come across how a complex of drugs is prescribed more expensive, although there are either domestic analogues or those that have been on the market for a long time, but clearly cheaper. For the same scheme, a set could cost $ 60, and for others, no less effective (and often with fewer side effects) 15-20.

Note. If a group of drugs appears and advances, then EVERYONE starts prescribing them. It's a REVOLUTION! Remember the same antibiotics. There was a wave with sorbents. Now homeopathy. Or the same yoghurts / kefirs / narine, etc. After all, there are people who are not shown this. There are few of them, but they are. And here is an advertisement that tells about the protection of the body, and here we are with our yogurt makers and stories about how tasty and healthy it is. It is good that this is useful to us, it is good that many of their children and themselves have been pulled out, are being pulled out and will be pulled out of serious sores. But there may be exceptions (a friend of mine fed both of my children myself, but ... an older terrible diathesis, not only dairy products are contraindicated for him, but even probiotics in dry form).
vorona
Quote: klv

people, I ask for advice! fermented lactobacterin and bifidobacterin milk, did everything as described here. ten hours passed - no result, only a yellow film on top, took it off with a boiled spoon and put it back, after 4 hours - milk, spat, left everything as it is and left. Now I looked - and in the jars it looked like a sourdough, thick, in one jar even whey was separated .. but 24 hours have passed! Should I be happy or not? 24 hours isn't too long? maybe it's just sour milk? or until the bacterins reach the Far East, they get so sick that they fall asleep, that then you won't wake them up for a day?
most likely you have got a working starter culture, it is just prepared from a dry probiotic for 20-24 hours, then it must be mixed, put in the refrigerator for 2 hours, and then you can make 2-3 tablespoons of yogurt from it per 1 liter of boiled milk, the starter culture is stored in the refrigerator for 7 days
Kosha
Quote: uberipuzo

read
I need the drug Normoflorin-L - L. acidophilus - I want to eat acidophilus

and the performance of the drug can be checked as follows: pour a glass of milk and add a spoonful of the drug and put it in the heat
if after 12-24 hours yogurt is obtained, then everything is in order

If anyone is interested ...
Yesterday I fermented one jar of "Normoflorin-L" for the sample (0.5 tsp per jar).
In 4 hours the yoghurt was ready for the activation, and the test jar contained milk. It was by nightfall, therefore, having removed the ready-made yogurt, I left the "experiment" until the morning.
In the morning there was a thick fermented milk product in the jar. Detached about a tablespoon of serum (apparently overexposed). I haven't tasted it yet. The total ripening time is about 12 hours.

Conclusion: you can make sour milk on Normoflorin. The bacteria are quite active there. Time and proportions must be chosen empirically.

Price in Moscow: 120-140 rubles. for 100 ml.

Where can I buy:
🔗
Hairpin
Well, I crawled up to page 45, so don't throw your slippers into the five-bukhanniks!

I don't want to do it with store-bought yoghurts yet. I think I'll break off my sides and become more compliant. But while the sides are intact. This is how I imagine the algorithm of actions:

1. I go to pharmacies and ask for probiotics in bottles (not necessarily Narine, but what I can find). If anyone knows live leavens in Moscow (preferably in the green north), repeat yourself, otherwise I’ll catch up with you here ...
2. And then I come here and tell you what I found !!!

Well, that's all for now ...
Lenusya
Hairpin buy Yogulakt in any pharmacy, I have not had a single puncture with him. True, it is not in bottles, but in capsules, but they open very easily. I am now a fan of Yogulakt
vorona
Quote: M_T

but I still think about the temperature:
it seems to me that the mule is overheating, 45-50 degrees, although I put napkins on the bottom.
It turns out that all my pharmacy bacteria died one more time? and then what is fermented?
What do you think?
I have a mule for two years already, I like it the most with narine, everything ferments perfectly and you can immediately see it, the sourdough is fresh - the yogurt is excellent
Lenusya
Hairpin maybe it's better to add Yogulakt tomorrow morning, pour it into jars and turn it on, you come home from work - the yogurt will be ready, put it in the refrigerator for 1.5-2 hours and can be consumed. And today just wash and prepare the jars.
When do you go to work? can you leave it in the included yogurt maker overnight?

night in the off, and then the day in the on yogurt maker for a very long time, it can stand IMHO
Hairpin
Lenusya!
Just warm up, stir, pour in the morning ... I'll be an hour late for work. But just starting it is already easier. Just think, Yogulakt will stir in cold milk? And those will fall into a lump in one jar ... Then all the jars will have a different density!
Lenusya
and if the milk is not heated? do not open the package, leave it on the table overnight (it is sterilized, it will not disappear). In the morning in a jar or glass, stir the capsules with a small amount of milk - 2 minutes, mix with the rest of the milk and pour into jars - it will be faster (I do this).
The second option is to do all the manipulations right after work and the next morning everything will be ready for sure. It just seems to me that if the mixture lasts all night, then 2-4 hours in the included yogurt maker will be enough for the yogurt to be ready and until the evening it will acidify and exfoliate

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