What to choose in the initial price range?

I know. Here: Rohre 27, 59846 Sandern, Germany.

This is not a factory, but a small assembly shop and a huge warehouse.

[Eretik]

Eretik, and then what is being done in China for Severin - are they pouring plastic or heating elements bending?
The same dispute was at one time about the assembly of computers, white or yellow. And what time has shown.
I want to upset you a little, Eretik. Do you think that if the company is European, then there will be no parts made in China? You are wrong! I worked in a company that sells household boilers. The service technicians dismantled two boilers in my presence, one Italian (there was a German pump in it), the other German (there was an Italian pump in it) and there were parts made in China. And the speakers made in China in the service have proven themselves no worse than the Italian ones, only the price is much lower.
That's all for me - every product has its own buyer. I really respect Panasonic, but Severin is no worse!

Eretik will not argue with you, but I will express my opinion. My Chinese Klatronic has been working for the third year without breakdowns, it cost 2000 rubles. and I do not regret that I do not have Panasonic. I bought expensive Brown, Tefal irons, Philips did not work for more than a year, but Scarlet Chinese has been flying for 2 years already, the same is with teapots and the list goes on. I have long concluded that not all expensive and branded products are of good quality.

Come on, we're on the point, okay?

1. For example, I am familiar with pricing. I know what BOM is and how to find ways to reduce the price. For example, it is easier to put the power supply unit. To the limit. Here's 50 cents and you saved. The wire was shortened ... Yeah, 4 cents in my pocket. Let's remove the heatsink from the output transistors - here's another 15 cents to save. This is from a meeting.

2. About kettles and irons ... It's not even funny. Compare Phillips to Scarlett. It's just not funny. I deal with this and that.

3. And, for God's sake, you should not consider people as fools who buy worse or even comparable goods for more money. if such things happen, then only as an exception and purely temporary. But you will presume this with your logic "I buy cheap things, and they work better than expensive ones."

4. Show me a sane non-name service. I dealt with the whirlpool, minolta, samsung service (now I'll deal with Apple). Not the slightest, I repeat, not the slightest problem. But with a washing machine, like an eyelid, problems immediately arose. The service center is dead. So he took it and died.

This does not mean at all that buying Chinese is strictly prohibited. For God's sake! Buy. But keep in mind that you will receive for your money exactly what you paid. That's all. It applies equally to HP, and to screwdrivers, and to laptops.

[Eretik]

Eretik, and then what is being done in China for Severin - are they pouring plastic or heating elements bending?
The same dispute was at one time about the assembly of computers, white or yellow. And what time has shown.
I want to upset you a little, Eretik. Do you think that if the company is European, then there will be no parts made in China? You are wrong! I worked in a company that sells household boilers. The service technicians dismantled two boilers in my presence, one Italian (there was a German pump in it), the other German (there was an Italian pump in it) and there were parts made in China. And the speakers made in China in the service have proven themselves no worse than the Italian ones, only the price is much lower.
That's all for me - for every product there is a buyer. I really respect Panasonic, but Severin is no worse!

I work for an American firm with an office in Germany. Our products are manufactured in Korea (will be in China). So there is no need to tell me about the yellow and white assembly. I know perfectly well how and on what savings.

If Severin was no worse than Panasonic, then Panasonic would have gone bankrupt long ago.

P.S. We compete in WYSE and so on. Our terminals are no worse, but cheaper (two to three times). We've been on the market for a long time. Do you think WYSE went bankrupt? No, not broke. That is why our terminals are no worse than WYSE only at presentations on the board of directors and when these terminals are pushed to the end user (school-university-Africa). I would like to note that our terminals perform their * basic * functions no worse than WYSE, they are more reliable in themselves (the design is such) and consume less energy. Nevertheless, WYSE is doing well and is not even going to reduce the prices of its products with a competitor like us.

[And enough to start a dispute in every topic !!!]

And, for God's sake, you should not consider people as fools who buy worse or even comparable goods for more money.

Nobody counts. There are simply people who, for certain reasons, buy Severin, Binaton, Ariete, Beko. And do not call these brands noname, they have names and offices, etc. And, imagine, this technique works. My sandwich maker Saturn has been working for 3 years. Noname is the Shenzhen that flashed on Severin's website. And I came across Shenzhen, my Shenzhen pancake maker also works!

But keep in mind that you will receive for your money exactly what you paid. That's all. It applies equally to HP, and to screwdrivers, and to laptops.

That's right, my, Binaton bread maker will work out the allotted time for 3-5 years and buy a new one.
And enough to start a dispute in every topic !!!

I have more than enough money to buy expensive goods, which I did until a certain time, until I began to throw these expensive goods out a year later. And I don’t think people are fools in any way, everyone is free to buy what he likes, but you don’t have to treat people who do not have proprietary technology and which does not fit your standard as plebeians. I will not answer you any more, this is no use, you have already been known here as a big brawler.

1) In a dispute, truth is born!
2) Sometimes it is useful to get people involved, to "shake things up" so that the forum does not turn from a lake into a swamp
Regarding the cheapness of noname and Russian Gesheft, demand determines supply. You want cheaper, please, you want high quality, please!
In the computer market there was such a direction of price reduction by any means! And what did it lead to? Besides, due to poor-quality power supplies, motherboards are burning, PCs that can work for up to 10 years do not work out even 2

Nobody counts. There are simply people who, for certain reasons, buy Severin, Binaton, Ariete, Beko. And do not call these brands non-names, they have names and offices, etc.

1. Nobody thinks so? How they think!
Here is from the post above
"I bought expensive irons Brown, Tefal, Philips did not work for more than a year, but Scarlet Chinese has been flying for 2 years already, the same is with teapots and the list goes on." That is, we buy cool products on the cheap, and solid rubbish at a high price. And fools, panimash, buy at an exorbitant price the HP Pansonic or the Phillps iron, when the noname HP Severin or the Scarlett iron will do the same thing, only three times cheaper.

2. These brands are usually called non-names. Whether you like it or not. Because these brands do not have a name, that is, a brand. They differ in low price and low quality. And we all have offices.

Noname is the Shenzhen that flashed on Severin's website.

Shenzhen is a Severin factory in China.

And I don’t think people are fools in any way, everyone is free to buy what he likes, but you don’t have to treat people who do not have proprietary technology and which does not fit your standard as plebeians.

I subscribe to your words !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes it is useful to get people involved, to "shake things up" so that the forum does not turn from a lake into a swamp

Maybe better communicate with the positive?

I have more than enough money to buy expensive goods, which I did until a certain time, until I began to throw these expensive goods out a year later.And I don’t think people are fools in any way, everyone is free to buy what he likes, but you don’t have to treat people who do not have proprietary technology and which does not fit your standard as plebeians. I will not answer you any more, this is no use, you have already been known here as a big brawler.

The plebeians are YOUR INITIATION. As well as my attitude to people, as to the Plebeians - this is YOUR PERSONAL INITIATION.

But you still, with a tenacity worthy of a better application, continue to insist that people who buy branded equipment are at least strange people. After all, they can, following your example and your experience, buy CHEAP (non-name) equipment of the BEST quality. Do you read what you write?

This is not a factory, but a small assembly shop and a huge warehouse.

Well, firstly, if you look, then make sure that this is a fairly large plant with many workshops (see manufacturing), and secondly, if you were right, I would only be glad of this, because it is usually where there are not too many employees that the responsibility for the result of work, and, accordingly, the quality of products is higher.

Come on, we are on the point, ok?
2. About kettles and irons ... It's not even funny. Compare Phillips to Scarlett. It's just not funny. I deal with this and that.

This is what I can compare. For 7 years of her life in a new house, my friend had 3 teapots (Philips, Brown). Everything, absolutely everything, flows (flowed) when you pour water out of it (water past the cup), then generally flowed. And my Scarlett has been plowing for the same 7 years (already at the dacha), and is not going to die).
So it's not always about the brand, it's as lucky.
And stop the argument already in this tone, healthy dialogue, please, but without imposing your opinion. Tell many people at least 1000 times how bad this or that brand is, he will buy it anyway, well, he has no money for an expensive brand, with which he may not be lucky either. Have respect for each other.

There are simply people who, for certain reasons, buy Severin, Binaton, Ariete, Beko. And do not call these brands noname, they have names and offices, etc. And, imagine, this technique works.

Ariette is the company that invented the bread maker. As for the rest, I don't know what they invented. And Ariette is an Italian company. What is going to China is how everyone is going there. I have a Scarlett blender. Apart from the loudness, no complaints for the year.

Yes, I would like to have Panas. But Mulya bakes no worse.

This is what I can compare. For 7 years of her life in a new house, my friend had 3 teapots (Philips, Brown). Everything, absolutely everything, flows (flowed) when you pour water out of it (water past the cup), then generally flowed. And my Scarlett has been plowing for the same 7 years (already at the dacha), and is not going to die).

I had many different teapots. Phillips, Tefali, Kenwoods and Noname. At work, this stuff is full. Friends are full. Only scarletts and other non-names flowed past the cup. What am I doing wrong? What did my friend do wrong, who, out of economy, or maybe after listening to you, bought a "Scarlett" for the office? And now everyone in the office is spitting and he will have to buy a normal kettle?

There is nothing to die in a teapot. As an electronics engineer, I tell you this. Therefore, there is nothing to be proud of.

About the flow ... Wouldn't it be difficult to tell in what place all these Phillips-Browns flow? I have Phillips at home. Already the second. For 6 years already. The first one hit the wall and crashed.

I had many different teapots. Phillips, Tefali, Kenwoods and Noname. At work, this stuff is full. Friends are full. Only scarletts and other non-names flowed past the cup. What am I doing wrong? What did my friend do wrong, who, out of economy, or maybe after listening to you, bought a "Scarlett" for the office? And now everyone in the office is spitting and he will have to buy a normal kettle?

There is nothing to die in a teapot. As an electronics engineer, I tell you this. Therefore, there is nothing to be proud of.

About the flow ... Wouldn't it be difficult to tell where all these Phillips-Browns flow? I have Phillips at home. Already the second. For 6 years already. The first one hit the wall and crashed.

Eretik, aren't you tired? What do you want, sound, pozh.I stated a fact, and I do not intend to argue.

I have a Panasonic Chinese, it works great. When I thought about which one to buy, I went through the entire forum and came to the conclusion - Panasonic. But since we live in a village, we had to order. We ordered Panas-254, not 255 just because of the price, because for me it matters. And when they brought it in, they saw that it was Chinese, but on the internet now it seems that all bread machines are made in China. Cost - for someone it may not matter, but for someone it is of great importance. We make the choice ourselves, and whatever we choose, cheap, Chinese, is our business and no one has the right to judge us for it.

I have a Panasonic Chinese, it works great. but on the internet now it seems that all bread machines are made in China. Cost - for someone it may not matter, but for someone it is of great importance. We make the choice ourselves, and whatever we choose, cheap, Chinese, is our business and no one has the right to judge us for it.

Panasonic is everywhere Chinese, not only stoves, but all equipment

Fear soon there will be Russians. The plant will be opened for assembly, like Bosch and Electrolux. The main CP sales are in 3 countries - Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. So they want to fix the assembly here

Panasonic is everywhere Chinese, not only stoves, but all equipment

The place of production does not play a special role. And sometimes vice versa, in Poland profiles for double-glazed windows are made better than in Germany. Why? Yes, the factories are ultra-modern, the equipment is not worn out. Control is German, that is, ruthless. That's all there is to it.

But there is a difference between firms, for example Philips (China) - Klatronic (China). Or rather, not so, because some models of Klatronic teapots cost almost as much as Phillips. It is correct to say this, if there is a significant difference in price, then the difference in quality is guaranteed to you. And none of your personal individual experience will refute this.

Ariette is the company that invented the bread machine.

Brave claim. Considering that in Japan Bread Makers have been producing
And 10 years ago there were only HP Hitachi, Panasonic, and LG began ...

The first bread maker appeared in 1986 in Japan

Panasonic has been producing HP since 1987

Brave claim.

Submitted on this forum. In principle, it doesn't even matter who invented them. It is important that Ariete are not Chinese, not a no-name, but Italian.

Established in 1964, Ariete is located in the hearth of Tuscany - quoted from their website.

Submitted on this forum. In principle, it doesn't even matter who invented them. It is important that Ariete is not Chinese, not a no-name, but Italians.

Established in 1964, Ariete is located in the hearth of Tuscany - quoted from their website.

It's good that the company Ariete established in 1964, and she has an office in Tuscany, but what does a bread machine have to do with it?

Thanks for the answer. I'm just now thinking about what to recommend to my friends, who, looking at me, also wanted a bread machine. She recommended Panas 255 (she has more money) to her mother-in-law, and Arietta to her neighbor. I like mine and my Moulinex, the only drawback is that you have to close the viewing window during baking so that the top crust turns out darker. I have not yet mastered the rye bread. I sin on local rye flour and crooked hands.

From my own experience, to improve the quality of rye bread, I can advise you to add panifarin (dry gluten) 2-3 teaspoons per batch. My Borodino bread turned out great the first time (flour in a ratio of 1: 1 wheat and rye + brewed malt 3 tablespoons)!
By the way, I am very pleased with my Ariete 121 bread maker!

Fear soon there will be Russians. The plant will be opened for assembly, like Bosch and Electrolux. The main CP sales are in 3 countries - Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. So they want to fix the assembly here

I think this is only Panasonic sales statistics. According to my observations, bread makers are used much more in Turkey than in Russia. There are 5 Mulinex bread machines in our 10-apartment building.And very many friends have stoves of different manufacturers, but no one has Panasonic. They don't sell it here

[Erhan]

Erhan Maybe, although it is strange that in Turkey they eat traditional Slavic or French bread. Maybe it's Russians?

From my own experience, to improve the quality of rye bread, I can advise you to add panifarin (dry gluten) 2-3 teaspoons per batch. I got a great Borodino bread the first time (flour in a 1: 1 ratio of wheat and rye + brewed malt 3 tablespoons)!
By the way, I am very pleased with my Ariete 121 bread maker!

I know about Panifarin. It's hard to get it here.

[sazalexter]

sazalexter, the bread makers are here at my Turkish acquaintances. And they bake all kinds of bread, except for 100% rye. The most popular here Moulinex 5003 does not even have such a regime. On the 9th button, the mode is * unleavened cake *. Plus, the local shops have a great selection.
flour and various mixtures for baking. None of my Russian there is no familiar bread machine. When I just bought HP 2 years ago and began to treat one Russian, I heard a contemptuous: "ahh, and you
as everyone"Since then, I discuss recipes only with the indigenous population and feed my Turkish husband with black bread.

[Erhan]

Erhan Keep it up! (y) Looking at you and other Russians will buy HP. You will see. This business is "contagious" and cannot be "treated" Soft bread and warm sun!

[Erhan]

Erhan, urgently need to teach the Turks to eat rye bread! I think they will like
Seriously, I was surprised. It's a pity, our compatriots, not everyone, understand the joys of home baking ...

[sazalexter]

sazalexter, thank you very much for the kind words, and I'm ready to share the warm sun with everyone, we ourselves often dream of rain
Mams, unfortunately, there is no simple rye flour on sale here, only a mixture of * whole wheat-rye-malt *. And you should have seen HOW the Turks know how to eat my black bread

Hello dear bakers! Serious passions have flared up, I would not want to add fuel to the fire, help an adviser, please. three models that I can afford (in a crisis):
1.Trisa 7719.
2.Moulinex OW3000 Home bread
3.Delonghi BDM 755
in the first I like the characteristics, embarrasses, the firm and the appearance, in the second (the price is the highest of all those offered) there is no dispenser, and the third, it would seem, is the ultimate dream, characteristics + cost + appearance, I almost love her, BUT VERY embarrassed POWER! 420 watts
The choice was made in the following way. Since we are country dwellers - we need a jam function, children love bread with seeds and in general, I want to add all sorts of tasty things to bread (raisins, vegetables, seeds, etc., everything that you can think of), but the oven will work either at night , or in my absence - for this you need a dispenser, well, and since I am always losing weight, I also want to bake yeast-free bread. Well, I ask you to help me with the choice, I already want to buy a rather miracle device, but I'm afraid to miss ... I really hope for your competent opinion.

[klukva]

klukva Delonghi BDM 755 definitely! (y) It is not recommended to cook only jams-preserves in HP, if you do not want to prematurely break the bucket!

[klukva]

klukva Delonghi BDM 755 definitely! (y) It is not recommended to cook only jams-preserves in HP, if you do not want to prematurely break the bucket!

but power is enough for her, will bread be baked? and how long it will last, I wonder ...

[klukva]

klukva Of course it will be baked! Find out more here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=65.0

My mother-in-law got sick with a bread maker. We have 255 Panasonic. She's crazy about her bread. Asks her to buy the same one. But for 8-9 thousand we would not have bought ourselves anything like a mother-in-law. I would gladly have given her another brand, but only so that the bread tastes the same. My wife says that at work she seduced one friend to buy a stove, she took Kenwood, and now when she carries her Panasonic bread to work, he leaves with a bang, and from her friend's Kenwood only when the other is over.
In short, what is this writing. Despite the almost identical recipes, bread from ovens of different companies can be seen to be very different in taste. Who has experience in operating Panasonic and ovens from other manufacturers, tell me from which ovens the bread tastes the closest to Panasonic?

oh, how interesting ... but I thought that I have delicious bread in Kenwood
in any oven you get excellent bread, delicious, airy, healthy - it all depends on the products that you put in the oven, put two Panasonic and two housewives next to each other - the bread will be different, so do not blame the brand of the bread machine, it is better to talk to your mother-in-law, on how much does she fundamentally get such an expensive stove as a gift (by the way, kenwoods are also not a cheap pleasure)

My heart senses ... here is Panasonic's advertisement, a cry in plain text ...

Grandfather Pikhto - you have only one way out - to buy Panasonic no other oven bakes bread, only Panasonic. And the main thing is not to cheat - you also need Panasonic flour, and Panasonic yeast, and water from China of the Panasonic brand is indispensable - then there will be bread ...
everything else is a game

I can’t compare, no one from the inner circle has stoves, so I ask, is there really such a big difference?
For example, on Panasonic, if you bake ordinary bread and fast, the difference is very large, although the products are the same. The difference in the baking program and the result is already visible.

P.S
That Kenwood girlfriends are not expensive

here and my kenwood is not one of the dear, but for some reason everyone likes my bread
but the difference between ordinary bread and fast bread is in all ovens, regardless of the manufacturer. by the way, there are also not very expensive Panasonic models, so you can give your mother-in-law not the freshest model, but it will be a Panasonic

and yet, the forum has several topics with comparative characteristics, for example, I came across this one: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9843.0
in the same section about skis and mules - dig in, maybe it will come in handy from the information received

[fugaska]

...
But for 8-9 thousand we would not have bought ourselves anything like a mother-in-law. I would gladly have given her another brand, but only so that the bread tastes the same.
...

It's strange to talk about the quality of bread from a brand of bread maker, although many people think so.
Reasonableness, convenience and reliability of the bread maker - that's understandable.
fugaska, you correctly write, "... in any oven, excellent bread is obtained, delicious ...".
Just add, in any c / n you can achieve an excellent baking result.
The baking temperature is similar for all ovens.
Buy a gift equal to the value of your mother-in-law and learn how to bake bread in it, choosing recipes and presenting the stove along with flour, baked bread, recipes and various small things in addition, since you have mastered it before.
If it is difficult, then give Panasonic and the "bald head" will be intact. Joke!

It's strange to talk about the quality of bread from a brand of bread maker, although many think so ...

In principle, this is what I wanted to hear.

In principle, this is what I wanted to hear.

I had two different bread machines - Ariete and Kenwood, and I can not say without unsubstantiated that the quality of the bread is different! In Ariet, the bread was dry with a thick crust and did not rise high. In Kenwood, the bread is soft, the crust is thin, it rises much higher with the same number of components. And Panasonic bakes very good bread. After I saw the Panasonic bread, I thought about replacing the bread machine. Since we cannot buy Panasonic, I bought Kenwood.
Tell your mother-in-law that if Panasonic wants it, let it add money to it. Specify the amount that you agree to allocate from yourself. I think the mother-in-law is not a stranger, she is aware of your financial capabilities. Get it right.

[grandfather Pikhto]

grandfather Pikhto I subscribe to the above. Mother-in-law is a dear person. Good relationships are worth more than this money. Better to make a worthwhile gift than to listen to reproaches later
From myself I will add either kenwood or delongi or panas, the other is not worth it

Compared LV and Panas. There is a difference. Unfortunately ... Although there is a difference in price too. The ski was up to 3 tons. Panas - cost 5.

But in Hitachi, the bread is also delicious! I tried it with my girlfriend. Good bread. Kenwood also makes good, tasty bread. Therefore, you really have two options: either buy Kenwood (the 350th model is successful) or Panas 207 or 253 (these are old models, they may be cheaper), or ask your mother-in-law to add money to Panas

In any case, in any oven - the quality of the bread depends on the hostess, mood and quality products. Because even in Panas bread without mood, desire and skill will work ...

Good luck pleasing your mother-in-law

Good evening! grandfather Pikhto I totally agree with Mams if you buy, then it's good. I had x. n. LG, and now the Delongues, my friend Kenwood and they are all the same type. In Panasonic, the shape of the bread is better and apparently the power is more. Can give money on the condition that she chooses x for herself. I am a mother-in-law myself and would be pleased with such a proposal from the children.

... I had x. n. LG, and now delongues, at a friend of Kenwood.

Why don't you have Panas?
As for Mamsa, it can be seen with the naked eye that she is a Panas dealer and it is purely in her interests to sell him more ... It's not for nothing that she can get this Panas anywhere and send it anywhere through the girls ...

ugh how disgusting is that, to be honest

The answer is why I don’t have Panas. When I bought the stove I did not know about a site like this one, and the choice was x. in our city it was not big, some LG were on sale - delongs were brought to order. Moulinex was brought to my sister from St. Petersburg and I thought that she was the best, and now I changed my opinion to Panas. Technique is moving forward, the models are getting better and better.

[Grandfather Pikhto]

Why don't you have Panas?
As for Mamsa, it can be seen with the naked eye that she is a Panas dealer and it is purely in her interests to sell him more ... It's not for nothing that she can get this Panas anywhere and send it anywhere through the girls ...

ugh how disgusting is that, to be honest

Then consider me as a shutter, he is a Panasonic. Because I bought my father-in-law not LG, Orion or Liberton, but Panasonic. I felt the difference between mulinex bread (not the cheapest) and Panasonic bread. Although my father-in-law is far from being a cook, I chose the stove for him as I would choose.

Grandfather Pikhtoif the mother-in-law is not going to cook rye bread (by the way, many people successfully bake rye bread on the main program) and she is not bothered by the lack of a dispenser, buy the same Panas 254, it is significantly cheaper than the 255th model.