Borodino bread I (bread maker)

I stand for 30-40 minutes. Or focus on doubling the bread volume.

I stand for 30-40 minutes. Or focus on doubling the bread volume.

Thank you . I gave an hour, even an hour 5 minutes, I think. But she put the dish in the dishwasher when she just finished the work. It was very warm and humid there. Maybe you did something stupid? So when taking out the dough immediately fell instantly. I didn’t have time to reread all the baking rules here, but I read from Izuminka that she was putting a cup of hot water for moistening during proofing. Or is the dough overridden? When baking, it rose again, but not to the same size

Most likely it has stopped. I distribute on parchment in the form under the film. and then gently transfer to another hot mold.

[Is this a good idea of ​​mine? or is it a bug?]

Most likely it has stopped. I distribute on parchment in the form under the film. and then gently transfer to another hot mold.

I made this bread. To be honest, I expected more. True, I forgot the "Borodino" taste. Does malt remind you of something?
I used my sourdough instead of "Estra", about a glass, instead of malt - beer, I don't have panifarin, and, frankly, I don't know how to replace it abroad. What to look for? Gluten or something like "glutamanate"?
First I made a dough for the night with sourdough, flour, beer, honey; then I added more flour, yeast, let it rise for about 45-55 minutes, then coriander, salt, oil, rest for 15 minutes and put it on paper to leave in a mold. I put it in the dishwasher that had just turned off. It was so "steamy", warm, the bread began to rise quickly.
Is this a good idea of ​​mine? or is it a bug?
Stood for over a little hour. As soon as I went outside, - he once .. and fell all over (at the top wrote-complained). Here Kava says (thank you for your help) "probably stuck." I immediately put it in a hot oven (250), it rose a little again. Slowed down the pace. up to 220, baked for 15 minutes, then at 180 for 30 minutes.
The bread tastes a little bland, no sourness, and the bitterness is barely audible (as I understand it, from coriander)
The photo shows along the top edge how much the dough fell

[Is this a good idea of ​​mine? or is it a bug?]

I put it in the dishwasher that had just turned off. It was so "steamy", warm, the bread began to rise quickly.
Is this a good idea of ​​mine? or is it a bug?

It is obvious that he was overridden. It will settle for you in an hour at room temperature. But did the dishwasher work with the rinse aid? Were there any foreign smells?

It is obvious that he was overridden. It will settle for you in an hour at room temperature. But did the dishwasher work with the rinse aid? Were there any foreign smells?

No, there is no smell in the dishwasher, it is without rinse aid (this is not a washing machine). I read somewhere that for rye bread there is a long proofing, but here rye is mostly. Well, live and learn

An interesting dishwasher idea came up. Maybe too humid isn't good either. I read about French proofers in bakeries, so the temperature and humidity are kept at the same level there all the time. But I did not find the indicators of how much this moisture should be.

An interesting dishwasher idea came up. Maybe too humid isn't good either. I read about French proofers in bakeries, so the temperature and humidity are kept at the same level there all the time. But I did not find the indicators of how much this moisture should be.

Oh, the dough takes off almost instantly. Maybe this is not good. And is it worth covering it with a towel at the same time, so that moisture does not settle on it, or is it for the best, is also a question

[Jil]

Jil, most importantly - do not be afraid to experiment, try with and without a towel. But you definitely don't need a long time, it takes off well, but if it later falls off, it's a pity.

Girls, on sale there are portable cooler bags large and small for transporting food.

Inside the wall is made of thick foam and a tight-fitting lid.

Can be used in two ways:

- as a refrigerator for storing starter culture at temp. not lower than + 10 * С - for which there are cooling containers in it.

- for proving the dough at any temp. if hot water bottles are placed in the container.

Girls help, what's wrong ???
Borodinsky turns out to be cooked inside, that is, like dough. The croutons are excellent, but the bread is not pleasant to eat. I baked five times and all the same Pekla according to the recipe of Lyudmila from LJ.

- for proving the dough at any temp. if hot water bottles are placed in the container.

it's just brilliant! I have such a bag, but there are no cold containers. but hot bottles can be made in 5 minutes! and I was tormented with the test. put in a large bowl of hot water. and once it ran away into hot water ... the pies turned out, but how I caught it ...
Thank you!

[dan_Ira]

dan_Ira ! It looks like a lot of liquid.

I ask again. Where can I get coriander in St. Petersburg, as well as Extra-R (and what is it) panifarin (and this is what), for Borodinsky.
The last two are not in the recipe.
And where is the button of thanks?

Fields - I don't live in St. Petersburg, but you can buy coriander in any Extra R supermarket and I don't use Pannifarin in Borodinsky's baked goods.
Panifarin (natural grain gluten) just helps the yeast to "raise" the dough (I have wheat flour enriched with gluten). It is used because rye flour is deprived of this gluten.
Extra-R is a sourdough, but mostly girls use their natural sourdough here.
Where to buy, go to the search or to the help topic for finding ingredients
Kalmykova, thanks, yesterday's bread helped a lot, I realized my mistake, when molding the bread, I (from the generosity of my soul) poured the dough with water, kneaded and molded, and the water left from half a glass, this time I just moistened my hands and molded it and everything is ready

Can I use my "everlasting" rye sourdough
instead of Extra-R?
And I have no panifarin.
There is coriander.
When to sprinkle bread on them?

[DonnaRosa]

DonnaRosa, of course you can use your own grown starter culture (in my opinion, it's even better). You can do without panifarin, just use flour with a high protein content. Sprinkle with coriander before baking directly (sprinkle on top of the bread and sprinkle on the seeds, otherwise they will not stick)

[DonnaRosa]

DonnaRosa, of course you can use your own grown starter culture (in my opinion, it's even better). You can do without panifarin, just use flour with a high protein content.

How much of your leaven is needed
instead of this special, which I don't have?
How do you know what is the stickiness of flour?
I bought flour at the mill. White.
Said for bread.
Rye - common rye flour.
Also from the mill. Weighed out.

The recipe is given by cups. I have an email. Libra.
How can I adapt the recipe?
Oven Panasonic 255

How much of your leaven is needed
instead of the starter culture Extra-R?
I’m already pledging everything, but I don’t know how much leaven.

Helpeeeeeeeeeee! plzzzz!

And exactly how much clean water is needed,
if for breeding kvass concentrate
I have already used 80 ml of hot water?

Unfortunately, I saw your post late. I put 300g of my sourdough in the wheat-rye bread. Since I have it 100% (the flour-water ratio is 1: 1), then accordingly it is necessary to reduce the amount of flour and liquid in the recipe by 150 g, replacing them with sourdough.
I have never used a concentrate, but logically subtract the 80 g already used from the prescription amount of water and get the remaining amount to be added. I mainly bake this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=6460.0

Unfortunately, I saw your post late.

Thanks for the link and advice.
I will definitely use it next time.
Mixed according to the recipe for this recipe:

I have baked Borodinsky according to this recipe (that is, according to the first post) several times, my husband loves him very much, and I too ...
In general, I immediately changed the recipe for grams, since I measure everything on the scales:
2 tsp dry yeast
130 gr wheat flour
280 gr peeled rye flour
1.5 tsp. Esktra-R
1 tbsp. l. panifarin
4 tbsp. l. rye malt
1 tbsp. l ground coriander
1 tsp salt
2 tbsp. l. vegetable oil (I take flaxseed oil)
2 tbsp. l. honey (or sugar)
390 ml. water (of which 80 ml. for brewing rye malt)

Dry kvass can be used instead of malt. I used to use Saf-kvass (before buying malt),

This time I put 2 st. put their leaven instead of Extra-R.
1 tbsp. l. panifarin; 4 tbsp. l. rye malt
Did not have.
I put a bag of Finnish liquid
brown kvass concentrate without yeast.
I put the yeast according to the recipe, i.e. 2 hours. l.

At first, the Kolobok was not observed at all.
It turned out to be a goo.
I added white flour while the semblance of a kolobok began to appear.
He strove to nail to one side and hang on the wall.
Seeing that the batch was not completely beautiful, I interrupted the program and
put it back on rye for 3.5 hours.
Now I'm waiting. In an hour I'll see what happened there.

My first bread "Borodinsky"
I don't know the taste yet, but fragrant, it smells of sourness,
koreander, as befits Borodino bread. Rye.

🔗
🔗

The bread turned out to be bland and tasteless.
But it looks very beautiful. Porous.

🔗

[DonnaRosa]

DonnaRosa ! Borodino bread loves salt, and its recipe contains only 1 tsp. I would put 2. And one more thing: try adding a mixture of spices (fennel, anise, coriander and caraway seeds) to Borodino bread, I put table 2. spoons with a mountain. And this fresh one can be saved: cut into pieces, add salt, sprinkle with oil and dry in the oven - there will be gorgeous crackers!

[DonnaRosa]

DonnaRosa, the loaf is very nice looking. (y) Too bad it turned out so tastefully. I always add 1 tbsp to Borodino. l. coriander and caraway seeds, and instead of sugar I put a tablespoon of honey, then it tastes more spicy.

[DonnaRosa]

DonnaRosa ! Borodino bread loves salt, and its recipe contains only 1 tsp. I would put 2. And one more thing: try adding a mixture of spices (fennel, anise, coriander and caraway seeds) to Borodino bread, I put table 2. spoons with a mountain. And this fresh one can be saved: cut into pieces, add salt, sprinkle with oil and dry in the oven - there will be gorgeous crackers!

There is clearly not enough salt.
I put the coriander whole and only 1 hour. l.
And there is no sourness of rye in it. I do not know why.
There is no density. It's too fluffy.
But the color and appearance are very good. good.
Thank you very much for the croutons advice.
You have to put this bread somewhere.
I don't want to eat it.
🔗

Is it malt? Does he look that right?


Maybe I took the wrong kvass concentrate
and I need to get one like in the picture?
There was such an impression that the kvass concentrate
I just painted the bread in a beautiful color.

[DonnaRosa]

DonnaRosa ! Of course, it is good if there is malt (the picture is similar). Then you need to take the 3rd table. spoons of malt and pour boiling water over (this is called brewing). If there is no malt, you can take dry kvass. We sell this in boxes. There are crackers, malt and something else. I did not use kvass concentrate, so I cannot say anything about it. And I have a good recipe, everyone likes it: Lactic rye sourdough 2-3 measuring cups from HP, rye flour 350 g, salt 2 tsp. , sugar 2 tablespoons. l. (if honey - then one table. l.), a mixture of spices (fennel, anise, coriander and cumin) 2 tables. spoons with a mountain, vegetable oil 2 tablespoons. l. , malt (described above) or 3-4 table. tablespoons of dry kvass, liquid (whey, kefir, dark beer - at choice or together) about 200 ml. All this is kneaded (easiest with a powerful combine), a sticky mass is obtained, like clay. It is very tasty to add a couple of good dry cranberries, pine nuts and pistachios each.I put the dough in greased molds, level the surface with a wet hand and put it in a warm place for 1.5-2 hours for proofing. Then I bake in the oven.

Good luck !!!

An experiment happened yesterday: a lot of leaven was put in (about a liter). The result is excellent: the bread is very fluffy, the quality of the crumb is kind of ... difficult to describe, but I liked it. I will experiment further. I will report on the results.

One of these days I will bake, I will try to weigh everything in order to give an exact recipe. In fact, there is nothing super-complicated about this bread. You just need to grasp the degree of moisture and do not forget to add salt and seasonings!

I baked Borodinsky, like Linka, post 48. The first time my husband said that at last he got bread with the real taste of Borodinsky.
I looked at the recipe with great doubt, it seemed. that a lot of water, but the bun was normal, baked perfectly. The taste was greatly influenced by the fact that I put the ground coriander in the brew together with the malt. The only change in the recipe is that I did it on pressed yeast - 12 g, and put sahor instead of honey - 1.5 tbsp. l. Program: rye bread.
This is how he came out:



Thanks to the author of bread and Linke.

I baked Borodinsky, like Linka, post 48. The first time my husband said that at last he got bread with the real taste of Borodinsky.
I looked at the recipe with great doubt, it seemed. that a lot of water, but the bun was normal, baked perfectly. The taste was greatly influenced by the fact that I put the ground coriander in the brew together with the malt. The only change in the recipe is that I did it on pressed yeast - 12 g, and put sahor instead of honey - 1.5 tbsp. l. Program: rye bread.

If I do not have these components:
1.5 tsp. Esktra-R
1 tbsp. l. panifarin
How can I replace this or can I do without it?
I have eternal leaven made from rye flour.
I've already got hold of the malt.

DonnaRosa
I'm not such a connoisseur, besides, I haven't baked with sourdough yet. I think that since you have already got hold of malt, you may well try to bake Borodinsky with sourdough, without Extra R. I added more of it when I baked rye bread with apple and bread kvass concentrate. And if there is malt, then it seems to me that you can do without Extra P. Panifarin is added because rye flour lacks gluten. Maybe you can find something to increase gluten? It is also called gluten. Good luck to you!

Here is my bread

This time we got a very tasty Borodino bread.
I changed the recipe so it seemed to me that it was necessary to change.
2 tsp dry yeast
150 gr wheat flour
300 gr rye flour
200g of eternal leaven
4 tbsp. l. rye malt
2 tsp ground coriander
1 st. l cumin
3 tsp salt
2 tbsp. l. vegetable oil
2 tbsp. l. honey
230ml water (of which 80 ml. for brewing rye malt)
Pour in a separate cup
80 ml. boiling water
4 tbsp. l. rye malt,
2 tsp ground coriander
1 st. l cumin
Stir and leave to cool.
Put yeast, flour, sourdough, butter, honey in a bucket of a bread machine.
Add the cooled, brewed malt, mix it with the rest of the water, butter, honey.

Pour the whole liquid so that it covers the leaven.
We turn on the bread maker in the rye bread mode.
After 3.5 hours, the bread is ready.
Smells delicious in the whole kitchen already 40 minutes before readiness.

Thanks to everyone who gave me moral support.

Next time I'll try to completely replace the yeast with eternal leaven.
I will put in half the coriander, and add the cumin.
Add malt for 1 hour. l more.

Today I baked this bread again.
Instead of 230ml. water (of which 80ml. for brewing rye malt), today the volume of water has increased to 260g. Malt added another 1 hour. l. Coreander was removed from the recipe altogether.
I have not decided to remove the yeast yet.

I have baked Borodinsky according to this recipe (i.e., according to the first post) several times already, my husband loves him very much, and so do I.
In general, I immediately changed the recipe for grams, since I measure everything on the scales:

2 tsp dry yeast
130 gr wheat flour
280 gr peeled rye flour
1.5 tsp. Esktra-R
1 tbsp. l. panifarin
4 tbsp. l. rye malt
1 tbsp. l ground coriander
1 tsp salt
2 tbsp. l. vegetable oil (I take flaxseed)
2 tbsp. l. honey (or sugar)
390 ml. water (of which 80 ml. for brewing rye malt)

Try this delicious bread!

I bake Borodinsky according to this recipe. But now I want to reduce the amount of pressed (live) yeast to 10 g, since the apartment has become cooler and the temperature equalization time has decreased, respectively, the growing time has increased. The last time my roof was slightly bent. I want to try to bring the amount of live tremors to 8 g.
The total amount of liquid, I do not change. But it consists of 80 ml of boiling water for malt, 100 ml of homemade yogurt and 210 ml of filtered tap water.
We really like the taste of this bread.

Found on one site:

BORODINSKY BREAD
Specifications GOST
5309-50

This standard applies to Borodino bread prepared by the brew method from a mixture of rye wallpaper flour in the amount of 80%, wheat grade II flour in the amount of 15%, red rye malt in the amount of 5% with the addition of salt, sugar, molasses and coriander, cumin or anise with sourdough with or without yeast added.

TECHNICAL CONDITIONS
1. Raw materials used for making Borodino bread must comply with the requirements of the current standards.
2. Borodino bread is subdivided into:
a). hearth - piece;
b). molded - piece and weight.
3. The weight of the bread is set:
a). hearth and molded piece - 0, 5 and 1, 0 kg;
b). molded weight - from 1, 2 to 2 kg
Note. Deviation from the established mass is allowed no more than + - 2.5% for completely cooled piece bread and is established by the average mass obtained by weighing at least 10 pieces. products. The lot weight must be at least nominal.
A batch is any number of pieces of bread sold simultaneously to the consumer under one invoice.
The deviation in the mass of a separate, completely cooled piece of bread is allowed no more than + -3%.

4. In terms of organoleptic characteristics, Borodino bread must meet the following requirements:

Indicator name Requirements
A. Appearance:

a). surface Smooth, without large cracks and tears, sprinkled with coriander, cumin or anise.

b). color Uniform dark brown with gloss. Burning, lack of gloss and contamination of crusts are not allowed.
in). peel Peel thickness no more than 4 mm. Peeling of the crust from the crumb is not allowed.
d). shape Correct, not mushroom-shaped, not wedge-shaped.
B. Condition of the crumb
a). Baked well-baked, not sticky or damp to the touch.

b). Promes Without lumps and traces of impurities.

in). porosity Uniformly porous, free of voids and signs of hardening.

d). elasticity Fairly elastic. With light pressure with your fingers, the crumb should take its original shape.

e). freshness Fresh, not stale or crumbly.

B. Taste Sweetish, characteristic of this variety, without signs of bitterness, off-taste and crunch from mineral impurities.

D. Smell Aromatic, characteristic of this variety, without mustiness and foreign odors.

5. In terms of physical and mechanical characteristics, bread must meet the following requirements:

Indicator name 0.5 kg 1.0 kg weight
a). Moisture content of the crumb,%, no more than 46 47 48
b). Acidity in degrees, no more than 10 10 10
in). Porosity in%, not less 48 48 48

6. Bread is not allowed to contain:
a). signs of illness;
b). crunch from mineral impurities;
in). foreign inclusions.

from there:

First, prepare the leaven: rye flour (peeled) - 3 cups and water. Knead until liquid sour cream. Add 3 teaspoons of sugar and 1 teaspoon of yeast. Stir and place in a warm place for 18 hours. (me too, like your recipe - for 6 hours)
! (Store the prepared sourdough in the refrigerator. This sourdough is enough for 10-15 loaves.)!
After 18 hours, mix: 1 cup water, 2 cups wheat flour, 2 cups rye (peeled) flour, 1 tbsp.spoon with top of sourdough, 0.25 cups of molasses (or tea leaves - you will need 4-5 tea bags), 1 teaspoon of apple cider vinegar (red, sour wine, like Chianti, now I have it everywhere instead of vinegar ...), 1, 5 teaspoons of salt, 2 tbsp. tablespoons of sugar, 2 tbsp. spoons of milk powder (?) - I don't put it! , 1, 5 teaspoons of yeast. It is baked in a bread maker in the "wheat" mode.

And I really want to bake Borodinsky, but in our stores the word "panifarin" causes a slight stupor
I'll try with beer

and here is the link to that site:
🔗

[Nira]

Nira, thanks for the recipe With some changes it will really look like Borodsky bread.

I did not see the conversion to grams in the topic, so here is my experience:
10 gr. fresh yeast
145 gr. wheat flour
330 gr. rye flour + 5 tbsp. l. (regular)
1.5 tsp. dry rye sourdough
1 tbsp. l. gluten free
4 tbsp. l. rye malt
1 tbsp. l ground coriander
1 tsp salt
2 tbsp. l. vegetable oil
2 tbsp. l. honey
380 ml. water (of which 80 ml. for brewing rye malt)

The malt was brewed with boiling water. Then everything is in HP, "Pelmeni" mode - 20 minutes. kneading, immediately after the end of the "Dough" mode - 30 min. kneading 1 hour proofing. The bread has risen well and baked, the roof is flat.
The amount of water was initially reduced to 380 gr. (i.e. 50 grams compared to the initial recipe), but even so, it was necessary to add 5 tbsp. l. flour. Therefore, I will further reduce the water.
For my taste, there is not enough salt, sweetness and sourness, that is, next time I will increase the amount of salt, honey and sourdough

Can you please tell me which program to use for HB Panasonic 254 to get Borodino bread? Otherwise I love black bread, but I have to do with white for now

[Nira]

Nira

Then everything is in HP, "Pelmeni" mode - 20 minutes. kneading, immediately after the end of the "Dough" mode - 30 min. batch

It turns out, you need to knead the rye dough for 50 minutes And I kneaded for only 20 minutes ... At first there was a beautiful bun, and then it crawled a little .. I thought it was too much for him, and put it on yeast ... ?
Please tell me, inexperienced, how much time needs to be set for Borodino bread. The oven is programmable, so you can vary the duration and sequence of actions.
Focusing on the forum, I set the heating for 30 minutes, then kneading for 23 minutes, yeast for 1 hour, deboning, yeast for 1 hour 20 minutes and baking. What did I do wrong?

20 minutes of kneading is enough, then the proofing should be almost doubled, then baking. Boning black bread is not needed!

Of course, I may not understand something, but judging by the Admin manual, just two proofers with deboning are needed for wheat-rye bread. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...=7271.0 I baked just such bread, wheat flour 340 grams, and rye 130 grams. The bread turned out, but not Borodino
The recipe was as follows:
Borodino mix 90g
Wheat flour 340 g
Rye 130g
Yeast 12 grams
Salt 2 tablespoons
Sugar 2 tablespoons
Rast oil 1.5 tablespoons
Coriander
Water 350 ml
Gluten 1 tsp
Bread came out, quite sour in taste, but quite edible. But this is definitely not Borodino, more like Ukrainian. Only store-bought Ukrainian is not so sour. Not everything went smoothly, messed up with the program, but at least not for a blowout

Of course, I may not understand something, but judging by the Admin manual, just two proofers with deboning are needed for wheat-rye bread. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...=7271.0 I baked just such bread, wheat flour 340 grams, and rye 130 grams. The bread turned out, but not Borodino
The recipe was as follows:
Borodino mix 90g
Wheat flour 340 g
Rye 130g
Yeast 12 grams
Salt 2 tablespoons
Sugar 2 tablespoons
Rast oil 1.5 tablespoons
Coriander
Water 350 ml
Gluten 1 tsp
Bread came out, quite sour in taste, but quite edible. But this is definitely not Borodino, more like Ukrainian. Only store-bought Ukrainian is not so sour. Not everything went smoothly, messed up with the program, but at least not for a blowout

Judging by the composition, you baked according to a completely different recipe than indicated in the first post. There is a lot of wheat flour in yours, so it is more logical to bake it on the Main Program, that is, with two kneading. And Borodinsky from the first post is rye-wheat, since rye flour is twice as much as wheat flour. One batch and long proofing is enough for him.
Once again I baked Borodinsky 1, only now I bake it in the oven, because I divide the dough into 2 parts and mix dried fruits and seeds into one. I bake in one form. When it cools down, I will take a picture and post a photo.

Here is my Borodinsky from the oven:
🔗 🔗 🔗 🔗
My recipe is recalculated for 125g wheat and 270g rye. I hoped for a memory and put rye at the rate of 250g (200g peeled and 50g whole), the panifarin was over. I put the malts on 1 tbsp. l. less so the bread is not as black as usual. Kneaded with a manual mixer, divided the dough in half, put dried apricots, prunes, various raisins, seeds, pumpkin seeds and sesame seeds in one part. The bread without additives turned out to be airy, even without panifarin, and with additives, of course, it was denser, but it tasted-like!

A beautiful, dessert bread turned out!

Judging by the composition, you baked according to a completely different recipe than indicated in the first post. There is a lot of wheat flour in yours, so it is more logical to bake it on the Main Program, that is, with two kneading. And Borodinsky from the first post is rye-wheat, since rye flour is twice as much as wheat flour. One batch and long proofing is enough for him.
Once again I baked Borodinsky 1, only now I bake it in the oven, because I divide the dough into 2 parts and mix dried fruits and seeds into one. I bake in one form. When it cools down, I will take a picture and post a photo.

Yes, that's right, the recipe is not at all the same as at the beginning of the forum. I was no longer looking for a recipe, but for the time and rule of kneading for rye bread. Now I will try to make Borodinsky according to your recipe, since I still can't do it. I am only confused by the amount of rye flour. After all, the dough becomes heavier from her. My bread almost only from rye flour did not rise at all

A beautiful, dessert bread turned out!

I join!