Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, and I bake with apples, with flour "Pudov v. s. with bran". The last time I got carried away, too many apples thumped, but I still like it, I won't change it for a purchased one



I bake on low-yeast, but it seems that I need to put a shorter program.

[Svetochka]

Svetochka, I now bang the same apples everywhere, there are still a lot of them, right today we went to the neighboring garden to pick apples, those that were on the ground from under the snow were shoveled, and those that were on the tree were barely shaken - they did not want to fall, this is a very good cider variety and we always collect it after the snow, it is the latest.
In order to shorten the time, I first began to knead on dumplings, and then you can just the main one, it turns out 5 minutes of dumplings + 4 hours of the main one = 4 hours 5 minutes to hot bread. Rita and I discussed it and I dissuaded her, and then I decided to try it and everything worked out, although I still track the processes, especially 1 hour before baking Panasonic 2501. Stolichny rye-wheat bread # 43
I tried this recipe to bake on the rye mode, it did not work, he stood and did not want to go up, I had to force the service mode to wait a little more than an hour and only then bake, so it’s easier on the main one, but in time it turned out the same.

3h main

Like this? What program are we talking about?

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki, oh I got confused, of course 4 hours, now I'll fix it, then I thought it was 3 hours ...

first knead on dumplings

Luda, I did that too, but I refused. For a wheat recipe with apples, in my opinion, is not suitable.
Today I bought Finnish rye flour, I want to bake it with rye. I really like Finnish rye crisps. That would be the taste to bake bread. Yeast will not work

For a wheat recipe with apples, in my opinion, is not suitable.

Yes, I agree with you, but for rye-wheat, namely with bran - very good
Finnish crisp crisps and I love

Good day! Yesterday for the first time I tried my new Panasonic 2511 bread maker on rye bread. Everything was fine, but no matter how much I read on the forum, people offer their recipes, and in many cases there is a proposal "Just Baking" as a mode. Maybe I didn't read something in the instructions, but I didn't seem to find such a function in my bread maker. If there are happy owners of such a model, then tell me how you can change the modes to "just baking"? This command would be very helpful.
In general, I have been using the bread maker for 7 years, but it was LG, now there is an opportunity to change the technique. Although LG is good, but not very good for rye bread.

Baking is a separate program. Open the lid (above the dispenser) under it all programs for HP are written



In our 2511 Baking is 14

Thank you! I will definitely look at home, but the main thing is that it is there!

[Laddy]

Laddy, the "Baking" program, does not knead, does not stand, only bakes

Thank you, this is just what you need. It's just that often in the recipes given on the forum, manual processes are indicated after kneading the dough, especially for rye bread, I dreamed of such a bread maker where you can just put it on baking yourself. Here, I bought it while I figure it out. And thank you very much to all who are not indifferent!

Today I bought Finnish rye flour, I want to bake it with rye. I really like Finnish rye crisps.

Finnish crisp crisps and I love

And I want such Khlebtsev, girls! And where to look at the recipe?

Maybe these

Wheat-rye crisps or fincrisps in a waffle iron for thin waffles (Doxy)

And where to look at the recipe?

The crisps, which Lyuda and I are talking about, contain only rye flour, and they taste like Soviet round rye bread for 14 kopecks.
Finnish rye crisps are thin and crispy
Rita, rather, these are similar. But what will taste like, I don't know

Rye crisps, crisps, or non-kosher matzo (Doxy)

[Ritochka]

Ritochka, they are sold in the Finnish store Prisma, at the price of red caviar, so I rarely buy to do such, I don't know how

they are sold in the Finnish store Prisma, at the price of red caviar,

Both in Lenta and in Okey (by the way, cheaper than in Prism)

I don't know how to do this

And I

[Waist]

Rita, rather, these are similar.

Nope, rather the ones that Waist, Natalia showed, because the fin crisps include:

Rye flour CZ, sourdough 25% (rye flour CZ, water), salt and yeast, rye flour content CZ 95%. I translated this from the website of one of our supermarkets

Here is the composition from the pack:

[Waist]

Waist, $ vetLana, and those and others I already baked. And more than once.
For my taste, I want something to scatter.
And I thought you have THEM!
Hunting varieties ...
It would be more accurate to say that I have not yet found MYS, to my taste.

Here is the composition from the pack:

Thanks for that, I'll try!

For my taste, I want something to scatter

The ones sold are VERY dry and hard, but delicious. No friability

VERY dry and hard, but tasty. No friability

Yeah, sometimes I even scratch my palate and because of this I rarely buy them

Specialists, tell me the difference between 2511 and 2501, besides the volume, is there anything else? I can't understand, I sit all day choosing. I definitely need rye bread.

[Tatyana]

Tatyana,
the volume there is the same, the view is the same, the buckets are the same, the truncated there is the same, except that in 2511 it is just more for two programs

here is the comparison plate
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=408066.0

the difference between 2511 and 2501, in addition to the volume, are still somewhat different

where did you find this ??? Even interesting
2511 has a Low-yeast bread program, both ovens have a Rye program.

[Svetlana]

Svetlanaand don't ask. They look in the internet, and then they write volumes as they want, and the programs are confused.
I myself am like that when I look at a new technique, if there is no instruction, then what will you not see, and everything is different. Try to understand through the Internet the difference in Bosch combines, for example, at least one 5th model. Then you will understand what a real detective is.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, thank you very much! The dilemma is solved, what will be cheaper, then I'll take it.

[Mishel0904]

The dilemma is solved, what will be cheaper, then I'll take it.

Mishel0904, Tanya,
Well, actually, a low-yeast mode is such a sweetheart, it would definitely not be superfluous. You'd better look for cheaper 2511

well, actually, a low-yeast mode is such a sweetheart

Lena, as you affectionately called him
My favorite regime, and of course rye. Although, the last time I baked such a sole on Rye, but delicious. Yeast needs to be checked

[Svetochka]

the last time I baked such a sole on Rye

Svetochka, here I recently decided to bake bread on a rye prog according to the recipe from the instructions, I laid everything down, I’m waiting, but I can’t sit still and wait, I began to check, I looked and he did not rise, from the word completely ... I got angry and turned on my favorite service mode, and that's what I noticed that on the program "rye bread" during proofing the temperature is much lower than at the service, at the service the dough jumped quickly and I baked it into a very cute gray loaf. And now I don't understand something, it's already for you Helen, fffuntic, question, why is this delicacy on the rye dough? For some reason I thought that the rye dough was "rough" and loved such "brutal conditions" - a hard, but short kneading, one-time, at the same time "hot" proofing, and then "evona like" ...

I look and he does not rise, from the word at all

So, you too? After the kneading, I did it "beautifully" and went about my business, and after the signal of readiness I pulled the bread out of the bucket and was, to put it mildly, surprised. This is the first time I've had such ugly bread, however, it was new flour for me - Finnish rye.
It looks like I'll have to make friends with the service mode. So I don't like dancing s.

I don't like dancing so much ..

Oh, Svetochka, so no one loves them, but they have to

Luda, maybe it's all because of the moon

[Svetik]

Svetik, nightmare, I forgot to look at the phase of the moon and did not check the pressure on the barometer, oh my maiden memory

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, vooot

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, Lyudochka

ask what is easier For me there are a lot of white spots in rye bread.
There we can assume that there is no gluten, but there are starches and other substances there, as in wheat, which yeast + bacteria must convert to the desired taste. The only difference is that it is full of special ones! own enzymes of flour and it is necessary to convert starches in an acidic environment, otherwise the own enzymes of flour will interfere with converting starches deliciously, giving wet slimy bread.
But everything else is as in wheat. The types of bacteria and yeast activity are temperature dependent.
Therefore, it is necessary to knead well in order to distribute the nutrition for the yeast and moisture evenly. It is not necessary to knead, but the batch must be of high quality, since the mash is heavy, and it is necessary to distribute the moisture and yeast well and the initial oxygen is also needed. Let it be without an overabundance, but the air bubbles are not made by yeast, but the initial batch of air, as in wheat.
So, theoretically, kneading in the mode should be intensive.
Now fermentation. Look. It is necessary for the yeast to rise and the starch to be processed. It is processed quickly with good acidity. We have bread according to the instructions without sourdough, but with a pronounced acid, such as the presence of vinegar in the recipe. Therefore, we will assume that the shortened mode is tuned only to the interests of some yeast, and we immediately put in the acid normally and there is no need to accumulate it especially, the processing of starches will go faster.
Yeast above 32 (of course, for a long time, and not only in proofing) can give a bitterness and is considered to spoil the taste. That is - 32 degrees for the taste, the theoretical limit for the regime.
It turns out that if you do the shortest rye mode directly, then theoretically it should have a very intensive kneading, and a constant fermentation temperature not higher than 32 degrees. True, the temperature of the dough at the last moment of kneading, when entering fermentation, should also be at least these 32 degrees. Otherwise, the yeast will sleep and will not have time to react in a short period of time.
As I understand it.
You girls were supposed to knead hot dough in this mode. I have no other thoughts.

I can't check the theory and measure the temperatures on the mode, I gave the panasonic to a friend, since now baking is a very rare occurrence for mnu.

and here Sergey made a revolution in the brain. I don't know yet what to suggest about this.
Legendary Belarusian rye breads require slow and careful kneading, as well as kneading. How do you like that? and the taste changes for the better.
Slowly, for a long time, with shakes !!!!
why? and figs knows. There is no gluten, it's not about the kneading-development of the framework.
In theory, rye dough does not tolerate increased oxygen oxidation.
But the legendary bread refutes this truth from the textbook. Or maybe they don't refute, but supplement with something? FIG knows. I'm just telling you this fact. Want to check out the post about the legendary Belarusian bread at Seryozha.

it must have a very intensive mixing, and a constant fermentation temperature not higher than 32 degrees.

In-oh-from, and there (on the rye mode) standing is clearly less than 32 degrees, I even felt the ten, because I doubted that it warms at all, there was definitely less than 30

Well, only Lenochka could make such a post ...

Okay, but Sergey, what specific advice will he give to me, who does not understand the physics and chemistry of the process !?

[shortened]

Well, about this I have only two thoughts.

- The optimum temperature for yeast reproduction is + 25 ° C.
The best lifting force of yeast is observed at temperatures close to 30 ° C.
The most intense alcoholic fermentation takes place at a temperature of + 35 ° C. An increase in temperature from + 35 ° C to + 40 ° C is accompanied by a rapid increase in the acidity of the dough, - acidity is soft towards lactic acid - we don't need it,
Temperatures of about + 40 ° C have a depressing effect on the vital activity of yeast.
====
So the yeast should work.We dreamed of alcoholic fermentation for a hundred years, we don't bake cake. We need increased activity.
From 25-30 degrees.
We kill two birds with one stone. Yeast works, and yet the "low-temperature" bacteria work and get high, which accumulate acids closer to acetic, that is, sharp - what we need for rye enzymes. Although this effect is a side effect. Too short a regime for a noticeable acidic effect, you cannot do without dopacid. However, in terms of taste, as in wheat bread with shortened mode, it is better to lower the temperature so that it is these bacteria that work, and not those that are slow and gain softer lactic acid. To speed up processing.
The short mode requires a theoretically hot, well-kneaded dough, but it should ferment at better temperatures for yeast and "acetic-more acidic" bacteria. The range is 25-30 degrees in theory. Better lower limit.

With normal fermentation, it's all a blizzard. There you can lengthen and so on. Look for the right taste and acidity. When accelerated, there is little choice.

Okay, but Sergey, what specific advice will he give to me, who does not understand the physics and chemistry of the process !?

but he gives nothing. He himself is confused. But he recognized this fact as a revelation for himself and informed the interested audience.
He made bread in a new reality and he liked him extremely, as well as his followers.
If you want, check out his last post. There, as always, pictures of all the moments of the batch.

And today I amused myself with bread, I baked gray bread, I now have almost constant bread, I haven't baked pure rye for a long time, as it seems we were finally full. And what then came to my mind to add, besides the grated apple, at the expense of the liquid, grapes. Today I bought a delicious quiche-mish, cut several dozen berries and threw them into the dough to feed the yeast. I will cut and try tomorrow, now here is a photo of freshly taken out bread

yeah, I also like mixed breads with sweet additives, more even pure wheat In general, I can even dip it in jam, I love rye-wheat bread with orange jam

With raisins, yummy should be.

Perverts!
True, I haven't gone far from you ..

We should arrange a meeting ...
Although, is the forum enough?

Fucking village internet !!!

aha .. with the growth of the euro, only travel is now going. Recently I went to your Moscow, you even have hostels 800 rubles, so that without bedbugs and travel in transport is twice as high, and in general ... both to Moscow and to Paris are now almost the same.
No really. , I'd rather be like a wise kurkul, internet is our everything



Lyudochka,

I will continue about rye bread. Here on our forum there is a rye theory, mainly from Hamelman, as you and Sveta suggest processes. Quick kneading so that there is no oxidation, and then fermentation in very warm conditions, much warmer than wheat, so that it is easier for the yeast to work. The basic acid comes either in sourdough, or roughly such as vinegar, kefir.
And no, no interfere with the dough because of the fear of oxygen from the outside.

Actually, and therefore I do not quite understand the intention of the engineers of Panasonic to reduce the fermentation temperature too short !! cycle. During this cycle, what is cold, what is warm, any !!! bacteria will not have time to radically resolve the issue with any acid, but yeast may not work - which is what you got in practice.
In my opinion, at least 30 degrees they should have been thrown away in the name of the well-being of the yeast.
Perhaps they meant that you can put a lot of yeast in or knead too hot, so they reduced fermentation?
In any case, the fermentation time there is too short to lower the temperature just for taste. This is some kind of reinsurance.
The mode implies either hot kneading of the dough, or an increased amount of yeast - which is worse, it will break the pressure of the dough and the result will be worse.
I also think maybe they meant mixed breads in this mode. But with the addition of wheat flour, the lower the better. Above 26 degrees, it definitely degrades under the influence of rye. So we were reinsured.

Girls and boys. I ask for a little of your attention.

In short, I took care of a healthy lifestyle in the form of rolled oats for breakfast
And as an obsessed with cleanliness, of course, I wash it so thoroughly, pleased with myself and the porridge.
And here at work my brains were set, like I clean the useful husk there.
Began to rummage in the internet. And there is no professional opinion.

And here is the dilemma: wash or not wash? Dirty water is something when washing. Or, damn it, is it a husk, but I think it's dirt?
Look for a whole oat now, it definitely needs to be washed without a doubt

Maybe someone knows exactly how to handle this oatmeal correctly? On the packs, after all, they do not write a word about processing.

So, briefly under the spoiler, scribble your advice. Perhaps Natalie will not really notice

Lena

I brew from long-playing. It NEVER occurred to me to wash before cooking. I have clear sun 1 and Monastyrsky. For quality, with a few exceptions (once Monastyrsky was bitter) - no. If boiled from whole grains, then tempted before cooking

I also think maybe they meant mixed bread in this mode.

I agree with you, because there is no pure rye in the recipes for HP.

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, Luda! How did you like the bread?
fffuntic, Lena,

similarly $ vetLana,

[fffuntic]

fffuntic,

oatmeal can not be washed, it is steamed in production, before flattening, but it will become much more useful if the flakes are soaked for 6-8 hours at room temperature the day before (they will wash at the same time). Then phytic acid is neutralized in it, which interferes with the absorption of minerals, and even after soaking, even "long" flakes will cook faster.

[fffuntic, Helen]

fffuntic, Helen, si-istra-a

I also buy my oatmeal, I buy the cheapest and coarse one, and I don’t like these unmilled casings, I don’t think they are useful, we practically do not digest them in the intestines.But at first I sift the rolled oats through a colander and get small, but coarse oat crumbs, I use it in baking according to Linydok's recipes. If you want some good, sprinkle a spoonful of soaked oat bran.
And I cook porridge from whole oats, of course, I wash the same oats in the multitool overnight, cook for 1.5 hours and leave it on "warm" until morning, it turns out an interesting oatmeal. There is no such recipe, but there is a description here Multicooker Redmond RMC-01 # 446 I cook for 1.5 hours on "milk porridge", and everything else is according to the recommendations

The bread with apple and grapes turned out pretty, but I took out a spatula an hour before baking, after the penultimate "chewing", and the last proofing before baking turned out to be almost 1 hour, more precisely 56 minutes. I didn't find any grape skins. Process description here Panasonic 2501. Stolichny rye-wheat bread # 56

I don’t like these unmilled casings, I don’t consider them useful, we practically do not digest them in the intestines

In vain you do not think that rough indigestible fiber contains a lot of benefits!

This is what is lacking in our diets, which are full of refined (refined, processed) foods.
Fiber prevents the absorption of bad cholesterol, serves as a breeding ground (prebiotics) for beneficial bacteria (probiotics) in our intestines, and this is immunity, prevention of atherosclerosis and oncology (intestines), etc.

[Natasha]

Natasha, remove then all unnecessary, sorry, flooded

If you can tell me a simple recipe for rye or semi-rye bread, then I will bake on the "Rye" program and measure all temperatures.

It is highly desirable:
Non-sour bread (no one in our family likes sour rye);
only whole grain rye is available.

I don’t want to bake recipes from the English instruction, I don’t like the taste

Natasha, and Westphalian

Bread only on rye flour (like Westphalian) (Author Kosh) (Elena Bo)

Do not put extra, it seems to give a sour taste, but whole grain can be sieved - the bran and will be eliminated