Mandraik Ludmila
Quote: Irinap
But the proofing is clearly not enough,
Irinap, the service mode will help you. If the rye didn't have time to rise as I need it, I turn on the heating service mode and wait for the required level of raising the dough
fffuntic
Quote: Irinap

Yesterday I was one of the first to bake bread from the instructions for HP. It contains 80% wheat flour and 20% rye. It seemed to me that I still need to distance. And the question is. If in the evening you make a young yeast dough, and in the morning you put the bread oven at 01 main?
if about this one, then 20 percent rye is

very little. Here you can apply all the tricks for wheat bread.
If you want to wander a little longer, then make our classic favorite pre-mix: mix on dumplings into a mash (no need to knead, just mix in one mass), take water not very cold, but not warm, I keep a bottle of boiled water in the refrigerator on the top shelf, not figs ahead of time to start plowing the yeast, and gluten to develop in the heat, and set a long program - dietary or French (this one even longer).

Look here. Firstly, during the pre-kneading process, the flour will swell and on the main one it will begin mixing gluten, which will also give a more elegant taste of the bread, and a longer program will give a longer fermentation.
And you can also add a little sourdough, old dough and other tasty things to the bread, but gluten-free, unlike the dough (in the dough, gluten is alive and must be treated with respect, and in the sourdoughs it’s already fig ..) influences, and gives taste. I am already silent that in this composition of bread serum it will be well straight to the place from all positions




with the addition of yummy you can sit on the main program, and even without pre-mixing, although it never hurts. And I read it from Luda the other day, but I haven't applied it yet, because now I don't bake often.
I want to buy maltose syrup to add to flour instead of sugar. Bacteria and yeast love it very much and their fermentation improves fabulously, and the bread becomes richer in taste.
I don't know why you can't just insert a link here. It is necessary to type in Yandex "Smells of yeast and yeast dough marianna-yeah"

Irinap
Lena,fffuntic, I'll try in French. I added a little yogurt, quite a bit, I was more afraid. Sourdough bread was temporarily set aside on principle. I want to understand at least a little yeast dough, and then I will return to the leaven, otherwise I did not have time to buy HP and almost immediately hit the leaven.
fffuntic
Well, it makes no sense to keep the leaven too. It also has other sweets without sourdough, sources of MKB

And I meant a little differently when I spoke of leaven. Not sourdough bread, but sourdough as an additive. Along with the old dough, just a small flavoring addition, an additional source of ICD for the taste of bread.
Now I will also pay attention to maltose molasses, instead of sugar.

I don't quite understand why to be afraid of acid when there is rye flour in the composition. Rye flour "adores" lactic acids. It is impossible to spoil rye flour with them))), rye flour in the presence of acid turns into a good one and does not spoil wheat flour.
At the same time, yoghurt and whey are a source of delicious bacteria that enrich the taste of bread.
What is there to be afraid of?
If the flour of CH is all so active, I understand. But in V. from. + rye = this is a composition that loves sour milk.

According to the theory of baking, 15-20 percent of the weight of flour is easily replaced with whey for normal flour c. from. It is empty in composition and nothing will be done to it. And rye flour can only be curbed with sour milk.
Whey can really change the picture only in doughs or in active flour such as CZ during long fermentation - only here it can be feared.

$ vetLana
Quote: Doroteos
I want black bread !!!
Hold on. Simple, you can bake on the machine. Note that there will be a small, heavy brick.
Bread only on rye flour (like Westphalian) (Author Kosh)




Link to recipes for rye yeast bread.
Rye yeast bread
Doroteos
Thank you! I saw this recipe, I can’t buy peeled rye flour yet ... I haven’t looked at the malt, but I haven’t seen it in a pair
fffuntic
Quote: $ vetLana

Hold on. Simple, you can bake on the machine. Note that there will be a small, heavy brick.
if you don't forget to add much needed Extra-R and useful loosening psyllium, it may not be a brick at all

what if The gastrointestinal tract of households allows, then you can also raise the volume with panifirin (the topic describes the addition of gluten-gluten-panifirin), but only psyllium is very useful.
Doroteos
Have you tried yeast-free rye?
fffuntic
Quote: Doroteos

Have you tried yeast-free rye?
there is no "yeast-free" rye bread.

Then it will not even be a brick, but just a clay sole.
There is bread with a predominance of the strongest bakery culture of yeast that is everywhere around us, but you can also grow their concentrate industrially, we buy it in the store. Or with a bunch of various "wild" yeasts, including baker's, but not in the leading quantity, these are those that live in home-grown starter cultures, which are incorrectly called "yeast-free".
But the bread is raised by Yeast crops.
The advantage of starter cultures over the yeast concentrate in the store lies not in the type of yeast, this is precisely their weakness - wild yeast is weaker and more unpredictable in lifting power, but in the presence of the grown MKB concentrate - lactic acid bacteria that enrich the taste of bread and make it useful.
Therefore, I answer the question about "yeast-free" bread in KhP as follows:
sourdough bread in manual mode in our plant has been made with great success for a long time, but it is not easy. It all depends on the strength of the culture you grow. For this reason, it is easier to use sourdough simply as a flavoring additive, and to regulate the rise of bread by adding industrial yeast. But bread with the addition of a good leaven will always be very tasty, richer in taste than just yeast.
But then you need to delve into the theory of leavened bread. Grow a good starter culture. Well, here you can see the recipes of the starter type. But I repeat that it is better with sourdough, but with the addition of yeast. which will allow you to have bread in auto mode, and not completely manually



$ vetLana
Doroteos, I bought malt in Auchan.
Doroteos
fffuntic, Thank you!
$ vetLana, and extra p is not on sale there by chance? I found it on the Internet only from other cities.
$ vetLana
Doroteos, did not see . Panifarin bought from Ashan.




Quote: Doroteos

Have you tried yeast-free rye?
If without sourdough, then soda. I didn't bake.
fffuntic
Quote: $ vetLana

Doroteos, did not see . Panifarin bought from Ashan.



If without sourdough, then soda. I did not bake.
yeah .. soda in the internet is also praised. And it's definitely yeast-free.

Actually, panifirin is gluten, gluten = it's like adding strong wheat flour. Gives a skeleton, but reduces the usefulness of bread.
Today, thanks to this correspondence, a healthy substitute has been discovered, although more expensive than gluten - psyllium. And it is neutral in taste, that is, it does not reduce the rye taste. You can even buy it for trial in a pharmacy, albeit with an overpayment.
Also a mucus that works like panifirin. Helpful - helpful.
Take a closer look at him.
Here I was taught how to quickly buy and try, and I'm so grateful to sit
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if you like it, then there is just a recommendation on how to order with a discount on the aicherb later

extra r - good because there are enzymes that help rye bread not to be wet and dull inside. Extra-R is just an ambulance when there is no leaven. BUT .. and extru P and sourdough replaces the presence of acid in rye bread.
Put old kefir or whey there, that is, something sour and with MKB and you will have that very extra-R

Of course, a good sourdough for rye bread is beyond competition. But now Extra-R and Kefir are normally interchangeable))), just kefir will give sourness.

But malt, which can be replaced with a kvass set, is already needed for a specific taste. This one must be bought without fail, its taste is very specific along with the smell.


Countryman
Quote: fffuntic
there is no "yeast-free" rye bread.
But waffles are easy.
fffuntic
Well truncated, here I am a consonant, well, I completely forgot about soda, or with baking powder and such as crackers.
Internally, I don't even consider them for bread, muffins and cookies ..
Bread .. this is BREAD .. it must wander
Mandraik Ludmila
Just, Lena from Kamchatka, laid out the recipe for rye-wheat bread on soda
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I will hardly bake, but interesting
fffuntic
well, he is a cake and in Africa (Kamchatka) cake.
It might be delicious, but it's closer to something pastry. Yeast bread with closed eyes and even with a clothespin on your nose cannot be confused with anything.
Mandraik Ludmila
Lena, this is not a cupcake, but you can't eat bread with caviar. And even three dessert spoons of syrup, in principle, to taste for such an amount of flour on a cake for sweetness does not pull
fffuntic
nope .. you will not convince. This is a savory cupcake
there will be a cake crumb

eclairs are also snack bars, but they are not a bun)))
Mandraik Ludmila
Okay, Helen, you have a cupcake, I have bread, but something is doubtful 800 ml of liquid per 650 gr. flour .... no psllium It looks like the dough is not liquid ... I'll go to Lena from Kamchatka to ask
Waist
In theory, there should be a savory cake. It is even according to the kneading technology - closer a cake!
Confused by the clean cut
fffuntic
Quote: Mandraik Lyudmila

Okay, Helen, you have a cupcake, I have bread, but something is doubtful 800 ml of liquid per 650 gr. flour .... no psllium It looks like the dough is not liquid ... I'll go to Lena from Kamchatka to ask
there really is a very specific recipe. 4 hours in the oven at low 100 degrees. At the same time, there is a lot of kefir or sour milk. Moreover, the choice of sour milk will be very important.
If kefir is chosen, then in 4 hours in the oven at 100 degrees it will begin to heat up very slowly, there is kefir yeast in kefir, yeast fermentation will be observed in 4 hours, and kefir yeast is the second most powerful after baking yeast.
So on kefir it will really be bread, but if with whey, then a completely different effect. At warm temperatures, they like to work intensively with the ICB, but there will be no noticeable fermentation.
Like leaven, but without yeast.
As I understand it, a large amount of kefir will just ferment, delay baking, and then evaporate during a long warm-up.
A kind of sous vide in baked goods

I agree to admit that I am wrong. This recipe should give bread if kefir is available. Without him .. fig knows. Most interesting
Mandraik Ludmila
She writes on yogurt and used honey. I haven't answered the question about proportions yet
fffuntic
Well look. We take a mixture of flour + sour milk + soda.

in. from. - we immediately discard. This doesn't contribute anything. Moreover, unmixed gluten simplifies the taste of the product. Here this flour just goes to the load.
But rye contains a bunch of wild yeast + microorganisms. The acid in the form of sour milk should restrain negative flora and allow normal flora to multiply. At the same time, it itself contains LAB, that is, the accumulation of useful acids will go in the heat.
The role of soda - well, yes, it will give gas there, and quickly enough in heat and acid. This gas will get stuck without mixing in the rye slime.
if there is no yeast, it will act as the main baking powder.

But yeast bread is not only acids from bacteria, it is also a chemical metamorphosis of the flour itself as a result of the action of yeast and acids.
It turns out to be strained with yeast, if there is no kefir, although wild yeast and bacteria are in the flour ... fig knows how to work out an hour in 3 hours.
Not enough yeast for full fermentation, as I understand it, but maybe I'm wrong. In such good warmth it can and is normal in principle.

The taste of bread should vary greatly depending on the sour product used.

Mandraik Ludmila
I agree, without sour milk there will be a completely different "caller". There is milk in the original recipe, it should turn sour in such a time and work "summarily" for me on milk
fffuntic
no ... it's not soda bread. This is such a tricky fermentation in the oven under very warm conditions.

And the main thing there is that when rye flour is moistened, we get the beginning of fermentation, as in a classic sourdough. Hence the requirement high the amount of liquid.
It is rye flour that contains for fermentation all necessary. BUT both good and bad.
And now the bad part of the microorganisms must be contained. For this, you just need soda, honey and, ideally, Sour milk. But sweet environment + soda + good heat is generally enough to start normal fermentation process.
This will make the flour ferment as it should, honey + soda, even without sour milk, will work as sterilizers, or something. If it's rude.
Moreover, in this aspect, milk is even better. It will turn sour later and the bread will taste less sour than keeping kefir or whey warm for 3 hours. Moreover, soda here acts as an acid neutralizer, softens the acidic taste.
Soda also accelerates the softening of the wheat additive gluten.
So soda is needed here from all sides.

Therefore, for fermentation, sour milk is not the most necessary in the recipe. It is desirable because it will ferment more intensively and the taste of the bread will become more intense, but at the same time it can be very sour.




it is not in vain that there is a requirement for flour. ZH flour is the richest in composition for fermentation purposes. On an empty seeded or peeled garbage can turn out. We need flour rich in nutrients and microorganisms to give accelerated fermentation.



This is not yeast-free bread. This is bread with accelerated fermentation on its own yeast and MKB in the presence of soda.
And the milk will surely turn sour, as fermentation begins. There, their acids will begin to form and fermented milk fermentation will start, which will certainly cause sour milk. Moreover, the correct delicious souring. Like when a crust of rye bread is thrown into the milk. The purest MKB will acidify milk, multiplying.




In general, a very tricky recipe. There is not enough knowledge to the end to understand all the nuances.
When we grow sourdough, at first a harmful fauna develops there, which is supplanted by a good one, and this good fauna accumulates acids, good wild yeast and MCB multiply in it.
But if you discard the first stage with bad fauna, and immediately go to the stage of fermentation and accumulation of taste, then this is what is imitated in this recipe
By applying a very warm fermentation temperature + neutralization of excess acid with soda + sweet medium as a preservative.
How strongly each of these factors works and how healthy the bread is, without accumulation harmful microorganisms - I cannot estimate, there is not enough knowledge.
To what extent this fermentation can be compared with the classical one in terms of effectiveness, I also cannot check it out.
Then comes the warm-up. The inside of the bread should warm up to 94-96 degrees for safe cooking. It is very interesting if the bread reaches these temperatures without drying out?

In general, I cannot fully appreciate this technology. Maybe this super-duper know-how is delicious, or maybe something that is not entirely safe can be saved there.

$ vetLana
Mandraik LudmilaLyudochka, you gave a recipe for bread with psyllium somewhere. Poke,
Doroteos
fffuntic, just buy in a pair of bread yeast-free grain pumpe ... something. It looks like a small brick with which you can hammer in nails. Like!
mamusi
Quote: $ vetLana
Lyudochka, you gave a recipe for bread with psyllium somewhere. Poke,
... I think I need it too. Try it. But there is no psyllium.
$ vetLana
Quote: mamusi
I think I need it too. Try it. But there is no psyllium.
I didn't have it either. Lyudochka, a kind soul, gave me and Galya psyllium to try. Today we will finish my beloved Borodinsky Ritochkin (Rituel -) and bake rye with psyllium.





Quote: Mandraik Ludmila

Lena, for a test, you can, like me, buy at any pharmacy phytomucil, 10 packets from 300 rubles, take the cheapest one it's the same psyllium, 1 package = 1h. l... I first tried phytomucil in action, then I realized what I liked, then Anya and the girls arranged a joint purchase and they called me into her, the more people, the cheaper the delivery turns out .. The most offensive psyllium, it's plantain, but it's only imported, we don't have our
Rita, here's a psyllium substitute.




We have 100g psyllium in an eco-shop in St. Petersburg. a little more than 500 rubles.
sazalexter
Alexei, Pumpernickel, with wild yeast

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On cultural yeast, in a bread maker

Rye Bread - Pumpernickel (Author Zarina) in a bread maker
(Lola)
$ vetLana
sazalexter, Alexander, thanks for Pumpernickel. The first is leavened, there is no sourdough, but the second is leavened - you must try
Mandraik Ludmila
Svetochka, Ritochka, I don’t remember where, let’s write it like this, but I’m working on this recipe, so I remember it, I’ll write 2 options, psyllium salt, honey of the same quantity for both options


rye flour 300g (400g)
serum 300ml (350ml)
psyllium 1h l
salt 1 tsp l.
honey 1st. l.
yeast 1 tsp l. (1.5 h. l.)

$ vetLana
Mandraik Ludmila,
Cirre
Mandraik Ludmila, Lyudochka, and honey can be replaced with something. Sugar will go? I want to try too
Mandraik Ludmila
Galya, of course, you can replace honey with sugar, the same 1 tablespoon
Cirre
Quote: Mandraik Lyudmila
you can replace honey with sugar,
$ vetLana
I put it in rye with psyllium. Malt put 2 s. l.
Luda, do you need oil?
±+++++++
Who will bake: do not forget to put a comb
M @ rtochka
Svetlana, on the rye regime? Or will it be on the service lift?
It's interesting to see how you do it!)
Mandraik Ludmila
Svetochka, oil is not necessary if you want 1 st. l. pour in vegetable, I love fragrant sunflower.
$ vetLana
I bake on rye. I didn't have time to add oil. Without oil today. I have never used the service mode. I'll see how it works out today, then maybe I'll turn it on.
So far, I can say that the dough is porous and very sticky.
Mandraik Ludmila
I baked this morning, my husband got up at 6 o'clock and I, together with him, put on a gray bread with psyllium, and went on to bed. Didn't help, didn't follow
Attention, flour 50na50 wheat and rye, scorching not on the rye mode, but on dietary, shovel for rye.

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wheat flour 1 grade 200g
peeled rye flour 200g
serum 280ml
psyllium 1 tsp
salt 1 tsp
honey 1 tsp
yeast 1 tsp
vegetable sunflower oil, b / z 1cl.l
It turned out to be a cool kolobok, you can have more liquid up to 300ml easily, I think even 330-350 kolobok will be good

mamusi
Quote: $ vetLana
Rita, here's a psyllium substitute.
Aha, I’m talking about it! I will ask in pharmacies too.
Wit
I'll try this one. But first a question. Is it possible without psyllium?
Mandraik Ludmila
Wit, what are you talking about? If my recipe is higher, then 260 ml of liquid is not more and yeast is not less than 1.5 hours. l., and you can bake on a dietary




Yes, and follow up just in case
Wit
: rose: Yes, Buttercup, about yours. He is so boring in the picture!
---------------------
Oh! And the highest grade no way?
Mandraik Ludmila
Wit, you can and the highest grade, do not be afraid, everything will be the way He is really tasty
Let me write so I don't get confused


200gr wheat flour
200gr peeled rye flour
260ml of liquid, I have serum, you can water
1h l. salt
1h l sugar
1.5h l. instant yeast

Diet bread program

mamusi
Wit, and then Such a Slice of Human Bread with a plate of Vinaigrette!
Wit
"... 1.5 tsp. Yeast instant... "- which ones are dry?
mamusi
Quote: Mandraik Lyudmila
200gr wheat flour, premium grade
200gr peeled rye flour
260ml of liquid, I have serum, you can water
1h l. salt
1h l sugar
1.5h l. instant yeast

Diet bread program
And I...

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