Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

Okay, then I'll ask differently. Maybe I want a lot from him? A half-height bucket of 400g flour is normal? Or all of the above?
And what is it not very airy? Or maybe I don't understand French bread correctly?

[caprice23]

caprice23, I don’t think about whey, but so we can guess endlessly ... My serum, like Ritochka, is the same "self-made" remaining from cottage cheese from store-bought milk. Well, either suddenly the yeast didn't work, or the "atmosphere" is not the same, the dough is a living organism and believe it or not, even the phases of the moon affect it, it's not critical, but still And now the waning moon, we can blame it And yeast in general then they eat-love protein
Natasha, relax, be distracted, bake something completely different and then bake a Frenchman with a light soul, and you will succeed
Well, my Frenchie turns out, usually, the roof is at the level of the top edge of the bucket, but there are also punctures

[caprice23]

caprice23, listen, Natalia, no offense ... you accidentally came up with your Nick ... or is it a trait of your character?
I just look ... Whims, whims ...
Wonderful bread! Hole for daughter to holes for daughter.
Why do you need super fluffy bread? It's not Panettone all the same, and Bread !!!

Nick accidentally invented ... or is it a trait of your character?

And fig knows, maybe the devil
I just need to bring everything to the ideal, in my mind, of course. If I had not seen another result, when the bread was just AH, then I would not have bothered, I would have believed that it should be so. But it was different. So I ask myself a question. I apologize if someone is tired of it already

Natasha, relax, be distracted, bake something completely different and then bake a Frenchman with a light soul, and you will succeed

I will bake pizza now

[I myself know and always teach students:]

I apologize if someone is tired of it already

This is NOT the point ...
If someone is tired of someone ~ you can not go in, not read, not answer ...

... but just bread can’t be COPIERED every time!
You have already been told that it depends on a lot of factors.
Today Darnitsky tore the roof off ...
(I know the reason ~ the honey ran out, put sugar ... And although I added a spoonful of water to him, he was offended and burst ...)
This did not affect the taste. I like his look. So everything is ok.

AND I myself know and always teach students:
"If some problem torments, time after time something does not work out, you need to RELEASE it for a while. Switch"

[caprice23]

caprice23, Nataliya, increase the liquid in French and the holes will be larger. The yeast will stretch the soft dough.
or dilute your serum in half with water.

If you replace water with whey in a bread recipe, then the volume of whey needs to be increased, since it is different in density. From the same volume of water or whey, a different dough is obtained: With water it can be normal, but with whey it is tight, so you need to take more of it so that the dough will last until normal.

[turns out]

The same volume of water and whey produces a different dough

+1
But still turns out bread!

I mean that Little different but tasty bread!

I will bake pizza now

And I made pies with cabbage

And I made pies with cabbage

And wait until the morning to lay out not destiny !? Why looking at night !? Torment now ... until the morning!

Torment now ... until the morning!

holiday after all

Why looking at night !?

Well, the time itself, always like that First time or what !?
Because the hustle and bustle of the day remains in the day and in the evening you want to calmly engage in creativity and pamper yourself
I have also already had 7 hours, and I'm going to bake a pie

And I already have a pie in the oven.
You can relax

[caprice23]

Fuzzy just doesn't work. From 400 g of flour, no higher than the middle of a bucket, and the first times from the same amount of flour, a very tall handsome man came out

caprice23, Nataliya, I also struggle with the Frenchman. Stupidly, according to the recipe from the instructions, I grew the top of my head almost to the edge of the bucket. Then I started experimenting with flour, whey, etc. and the stability was gone
In general, my conclusion is that completely on serum it turns out to be low. I got the most lush when the whey was about 1/3 of the entire liquid, the rest was water. I even stuck the top of my head out of the bucket. I have premium flour, but I replace 50 grams of the total amount with flour or semolina from durum wheat. I bake with pre-mix and delayed start.

[Sveta and Olga]

Are right Sveta and Olga... But they are too categorical, an integrated approach to the issue of both whey and sugar is needed.
Shortly

1. Serum is a time bomb because of its increased usefulness.
Therefore, it should be fresh, not peroxidized and the dosage should not exceed 15-20 percent of the weight of the flour, and if in the central plant or 1st grade, then generally 5-10-20 percent, even less is needed.
Serum in small toAmount - delicious in all respects and contributes to more volume and blah .. blah ..

In large, it reduces the volume of products, weakens gluten, ALTHOUGH the taste is preserved in any case.
So .. water is not always cooler than whey, if the whey is not shifted.
If the serum spoils the picture, you need to reduce it a little more.
But whey enriches the taste dramatically.
Especially in empty bread without baking.

Cleverly and in full, you can read the article, in my opinion there is a short and comprehensive

🔗

2. What yeast likes. They love to eat free glucose from flour, and scientifically the simplest is monosugar.

First, they eat the flour around them, where it is easy for them to get (chemically) free glucose, and then, with an expression of longing from hunger, they eat sugar. They eat it. More effort is spent on splitting.
As a side effect of the yeast breaking down pure sugar, by-products appear there, I can lie .. I have not studied this issue very much. Kind of like some kind of by-product, smell and can taste bitter.
Complex sucrose consists of the simplest sugars, if broken down,
At the same time, free sucrose in flour and crystalline sucrose in sugar differ slightly in the difficulty of processing and splitting into simplest components.
I have something to look for in scrap, but in practice it is so.

Therefore, if the flour is empty for glucose, then sugar cannot simply be replaced. The taste will be worse than the starch breakdown of the flour.
But sugar is better than just empty flour.
Also, yeast is a living creature and eat more than one "product", they need vitamins and minerals. Even dead relatives

Why is yeast talked about sugar aversion?
Because sugar is terribly hygroscopic, in Russian it works as a dehydrator.
If there is a lot of sugar, then the yeast does not have time to break it down and pull out the delicious glucose. Instead, sugar sticks to them and dries them out, dehydrating them - killing them. Like this. Food becomes a killer.
Therefore, in a dehydrated sugar environment, not just more yeast is required, but tolerant, that is, resistant, with a shell from which it is not easy for sugar to draw water - such as special fast ones for baking. They have a particularly moisture-resistant casing.

In terms of yeast nutrition, namely Olya(Thumbelina) brilliantly solves the problem of empty flour. She shoves glucose-enriched CB into the void. with., feeds the yeast and they are well fed and happy raise bread well.
There are several ways to feed flour: add glucose-rich CZ, malt live sprouted - this is strictly dosed, it weakens, and the same sugar, - although this is a forced decision,

One more thing - potato broth does not replace glucose, but there is something else that yeast is madly in love with, together with glucose.
Yeast likes whey indirectly. There are all sorts of additional products, vitamins, minerals. Serum is poured as a top dressing.But whey in bread is viewed more as a bread improver (or worsening) if too much and very acidic) rather than a yeast feeder.

3. So why didn't the fluffy come out?
- there may have been too much serum. Reduce to start by 5-10 percent by weight of flour. You will gradually increase the serum.
Than longer bread wanders, so less need serum.
- too empty flour, there is not enough grub for yeast. This is a controversial issue. Modern c. from. too empty for sweetness, but in practice it is usually still enough to lift.
You can add a really tiny little CB - just don't overdo it as a source of dopglucose. If you don't overdo it, it won't get any worse.

Let Olya will tell you exactly the verified amount of CZ as an additive.

4. The more humid the bun, the higher the volume should be with the normal development of gluten and if the moisture does not exceed the capacity of flour
Therefore, I see no reason to reduce the humidity. It is better to make a gingerbread man for volume very soft.

In terms of this. Once I came across a makfa, which sharply increased in volume after pre-mixing. That is, it swelled for a very long time. It was, however, once, but it was.

Of course, it's ideal to have the coolest strongest flour for the fluffy.

Olya, tell me, what percentage of CH do you add to enrich flour on your furry?

Makfa flour, whey, Lux yeast.

caprice23, change flour. I never used McFa, but then I contacted her. The loaves have become lower, the crust is harder, the crumb is softer and tastier. I don't like it at all.

[different]

I know, a lot of people scold McFoo. But Macfa is a product of a bunch of manufacturers. And I was always somehow lucky with her. She different in every town.
But

I've never come across a bad makfa yet. The sorceress, I agree, was bad. I met a bad falconer and an Imperial one.

I came across long makfa - without pre-mixing did not give a normal volume.

Therefore, it may or may not be the fault of the Makfa.
It seems like Natasha and on the makfa in the main mode turned out to be satisfying to her fluffy.
You can try to make the batch wet, and a little !!!! enrich flour with vitamin and mineral supplement CZ and do not overdo it with whey (5-10 percent to begin with).

Natasha, if you decide to change the makfu - look for a higher protein.
for example, a water-capacious Siberian with protein from 11, this one is certainly super-duper in all respects. Best for pussies. Strong.



Svetlana practically also came to the same conclusions:

- the serum must be dosed
-the flour is enhanced with semolina - of hard varieties - there is a lot of gluten, it is slightly weaker than concentrated dry gluten, but from the same series. Choose stronger flour. Stronger flour - higher bread, because strong gluten is able to stretch well.
You can stupidly take high-moisture Siberian flour with a higher protein. Then dances with tambourines are not needed at all. The more moisture-absorbing flour is, the stronger it is.
Pre-mix allows the flour to swell better and form more gluten. Special coarse-grained semolina, which needs to swell additional time.
There is more sweetness in semolina than in empty c. with., that is, there is also a supplement for yeast.

Although still a tiny supplement ZZ, perhaps, would be even tastier and richer in glucose, that is, it is also relevant.

Still, I decided to give a scientific article about yeast nutrition for those interested

🔗
and
🔗

below all terribly difficult chemistry converting flour to feed yeast
🔗

Yeast is actually hard to eat. In the presence of oxygen one by one. In the presence of oxygen they are quite voracious, but this is not considered fermentation.

But already without oxygen, another nutrition begins and it is called precisely the fermentation of the dough. It's complicated. I quote

Yeast first of all ferments its own flour sugars (glucose, fructose, sucrose), and then with the help of a zymase complex of enzymes, they convert maltose, formed in the dough during starch hydrolysis, into glucose and ferment it. Therefore, the sugar-forming ability of flour, i.e. the ability of amylolytic enzymes to hydrolyze starch into maltose, has a significant effect on the course of fermentation. With insufficient activity of these enzymes, fermentation slows down.Then, technological methods increase the attackability of starch by amylases, for example, by converting part of the starch of the flour into a gelatinized state by exposing the flour to hot water or by the method of electrocontact heating of the water-flour mixture.

If translated into Russian, the yeast first eats its own flour sugar in an accessible form. Then they switch to eating maltose, which is formed when the starch of flour is broken down.

That is, the starch of the flour undergoes double digestion. On both sides: with the so-called intrinsic active substances-enzymes in flour and then with yeast. Active substances break down starch with the formation of complex maltose, which then also goes into the nutrition of the yeast, but already requires great efforts from them to convert it again into the simplest sugars.

If this is not enough for them, then they are taken for the breakdown of pure sugar (sucrose crystalline difficult to process, but it must be converted into the simplest sugars) This is more difficult, requires increased energy consumption of yeast, and decomposition produces decomposition by-products that are less tasty in bread than from the simple decomposition of starch flour with maltose.

That is, yeast nutrition occurs in two stages. First, what they just do not eat for their pleasure: vitamins, and fats, minerals and a bunch of everything. This is if they can breathe in the presence of oxygen. But there is no fermentation process. They're delicious eat and reproduce.

and when oxygen runs out, the yeast begins to eat only the simplest sugars (fructose, glucose), that is, it is already eating differently, with the release of gases that stretch the gluten.
First, they eat the sugars of the flour around them, then they switch to processing maltose, which is formed over time as a result of the chemical transformation of flour by its own enzymes, and then, if this is not enough, they eat pure sugar.

here is popular with pictures about yeast
🔗

[Lena]

Lena , that's, that's, that's what I wanted to hear !!! Explanation! Why and why it happens!
Do not just take and bake differently, on water, but WHY is this happening in this case.
Straight off your shoulders! I ran my eyes quickly, now I'll sit down and study thoroughly. Thank you! And thanks to everyone else who tried to sort out my little problem with me
Svetlana, thanks, I will continue the fight), I will reduce the serum. And how much yeast do you put with pre-mixing? Reduces the amount?
Olga, Thumbelina, like you wrote about 100g CZ earlier or am I mistaken?




And I baked pizza yesterday. From the forum. Pizza Hut is called, sort of. This is something with something, very tasty dough is exactly what I need. Lush, light and crispy Now my favorite will be
And on the eve, I baked the first option according to the recipe from the instructions for the HP, which did not impress me at all.

[Natasha]

Natashawhat do you mean by pre-mixing?

There are baked goods on a delayed start. This is when there is no pre-mixing, just all the ingredients in the bucket are waiting for the start of the program on a timer.
And there is a pre-mixing - that is, the dough was mixed on the dumplings and only then the program was launched.
And this pre-mixing is different for everyone in duration.
I have it no longer than the programmed exposure. As I kneaded, I immediately start the program.
In this case, I practically do not change the amount of yeast, since the time of this short standing in terms of fermentation can be neglected.
If you are not going to put the yeast on for long hours, put the yeast in the usual rate - you like pooper)))

And you often write about the many hours of standing dough in the evening. This is already very serious. Especially with strong lux and the addition of active serum or active CZ supplements.
It is very easy to stand the dough there.
I am powerless to advise here, I do not do this. Let the girls share their experiences.
The longer and warmer the aging of the finished dough - read a very long fermentation, the less you need yeast, whey, CZ.

The yeast should not over-tighten the gluten and gobble up everything in the dough.
CZ, whey should not spoil the gluten with their very chemically active substances.
And also ... there is a strong machine kneading ahead - it is doubly dangerous with such a dough composition.

And this .. I agree with Elena Bo... If you really want a fluff from fluffy, then the choice of flour is extremely important. Above the possibilities of purchased flour - do not jump.
Rather, you can just a little with the addition of dry gluten. Well, or egg white for a start is also an amplifier.
Look for super high-protein flour.

And a very active CZ, like whey, can generally plant bread. Give a disgusting taste if stale.
These additives must be put in strictly according to the norm, if the volume of the product is very important.

[Lena]

Lena, I want to knead on pizza just before going to bed and put it on with a delay in the morning. So she asked Svetlana about this, she just writes what she does with the pre-mixing and with a delay, I wonder how she does it in practice and on what yeast, by the way)). And about your version, I remember that the program starts right after the pre-mixing. It only suits me for the weekend. And I also remember more carefully about the fact that with yeast and with CZ during prolonged fermentation.
And on the forum there is a recipe: "Bork. Long-fermented bread." Omela. So there is exactly the described method with pre-mixing and with a program on a long delay. And yeast does not decrease, but is baked without whey and CZ. But yeast is dry.
I understood the theory, I wonder how it comes out in practice.
By the way, and with semolina (exactly hard varieties?) Can you not be afraid to leave for prolonged fermentation, or does it also somehow have a different effect?

[very strong]

about semolina and pre-mixing

All semolina has a high gluten content, but its quality is different. If semolina is from soft varieties, then the gluten there is weaker than even the one in our flour. with., this additive will not give any effect in volume.
And if semolina is made from hard varieties, then this is a very strong gluten with all sorts of additional substances.
The semolina is coarsely ground, so it should be given time to swell. Without pre-mixing, it can ruin the bread altogether.
Semolina is not CZ, it does not contain such active enzymes, therefore, just like ordinary flour, it will stand on pre-mixing. What semolina - what is simple very strong flour c. from. - one. It only swells longer.

Without CZ and serum, it is much calmer to put on a long pre-batch. BUT what was said above about flour also works here. If the flour is empty for the yeast feeder, then they may not withstand long standing and begin to die there or they will not raise bread well.
Therefore, then you must at least put sugar)))
And the yeast should feel comfortable and at the same time not ferment the bread with a break in the gluten.
And select the amount of yeast for yourself. Because in the recipe, fermentation takes place at the temperature in the kitchen of the owner of the recipe, and you will have your own degrees and yeast of your own quality. Flour with its strength and endurance and the amount of nutrition for the yeast.
Pre-mixing is possible with any yeast. They are all of the same baking strain. But the quantity must be selected individually.

[Lena]

Lena, it turns out that 28.5%
In this recipe, 350 grams of premium and 100 grams of whole grain.

[Olya]

Olya, from goodness not looking for good. Then write down the proportion of your yeast. Since you have perfected the technology of long-term fermentation of French fluffy, let Natasha repeat it.

How wet are you making the bun? Is the flour common or is it high protein?

On the suite, she will have to search for everything herself by trial and error. I doubt it will work out quickly. And the pacmaya don't think she's gone far from the cafe moment. Most likely, it can be used on all instant ones, and if you have to adjust, then a little and not for long.

I already wrote to here at her request the whole recipe,
Here is:
Yeast 3
Flour 350
Flour 100
Salt 6
Panifarin 10
Olive oil 20
Water 250
Pr French bread
I have protein-rich flour and pour water not 250 as in the recipe, but after observing the whole 300 ml, I realized that 300 ml is just right for this flour.
Bread is just a fairy tale for every day, I bake it all the time, I'll put it on your favorite suite today.
How much to put it in?

And how much yeast do you put with pre-mixing? Reduces the amount?

I have a 2512 with a yeast dispenser. Therefore, it is easier for me - I do the pre-batch without yeast, and they are in the dispenser at the rate. And,
By the way, I also don't put the butter right away, as it was previously kneaded - I throw the pieces on top and go to sleep.Just don't do this with vegetable oil - it will flop, it will stain the whole stove

Yes, yes, I have a recipe, I wrote it down for myself and forgot))). Here is a plug with panifarin. There is no where in the city. If you only order through the Internet. What can replace?

What can replace?

I baked without it, it will be slightly lower and not so rubber, but in general
And now I don't put vyskubank flour, it is whitish itself, but soon it will end and again Stary Oskol is my favorite and accessible or my own Limak

[Olga]

Olga, Thank you. Is the oil refined or not?

[Nataliya]

Nataliya, Olive, I pour not raf., Green, I love it.
maybe I don't need to experiment with yeast

[not]

See for yourself. Me after notfurry Natasha is difficult to advise.
suddenly again the wrong volume will turn out?
I would put no more than 5 g, but everyone is so obsessed with big pussies, then, probably, all 6-7 should be put
I somehow got to FIG. In fact, I love the tender crumb on Stary Oskolskaya too. The crust would be, most importantly, crispy.

Yes, yes, I have a recipe, I wrote it down for myself and forgot))). Here is a plug with panifarin. There is no where in the city. If you only order through the Internet. What can replace?

Panifirin is a gluten + improver.
You can just
dry gluten (dry gluten), slightly worse - homemade egg white
Or instead of everything, look for a strong flour with protein from 11. For such flour, no improvers are needed.

But if you have ordinary flour and without panifirin (gluten), then reduce the CH by half at the expense of ordinary flour. I'm afraid the usual flour, a third of the CH will be hard to worry - too much. It will become even weaker.

If you do without amplifiers, do a small CH addition

The crust would be, most importantly, crispy.

Very crunchy, I think whole flour will help this crunch

Yesterday we opened a can of sun-dried tomatoes, made it myself, with hot pepper (we are used to it, we love hot), put a small bun according to the program from a book, tomatoes and rosemary.
Now I'm waiting for the "bread dragon" baking with noodle soup

not .. CZ makes the taste richer and can help with the volume due to feeding the yeast, improve the color of the crust.
But you can have crispy crusts without CZ, and even without whey. HP kneads bread well. I'm not so picky, they just crunch me on water with butter. I gave a little baking ... and yummyooo without much witchcraft.

If you need a pure wheat funky taste, but the volume is at the limit, then all these delights are needed.

Yesterday we opened a can of sun-dried tomatoes, made it myself, with hot pepper (we are used to it, we love hot), put a small bun according to the program from a book, tomatoes and rosemary.
Now I'm waiting for the "bread dragon" baking with noodle soup

foodies you are there, however

For my taste, this recipe outperforms the original from the book, and by a margin, but again I mean

foodies you are there, however

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, Helen, thanks for the info about the serum. Very useful and useful. I already understood some things from my own experience.

GOURMET, with tomato & rosemary, as soon as the slice cools down.
Loaf M

[Olga]

Olga, handsome !!

Girls, I want to report on my experiments. The results are disappointing. All bread containing rye flour is unsatisfactory, regardless of the mode on which it was baked. The bread on wheat flour turns out, as before, excellent: tall, fluffy, well baked. Photo:
Thalia's following standard bread recipe: 2 tsp dry yeast
250 gr rye flour
250 gr wheat flour
2 tsp salt
2 tsp sugar or honey
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
340 ml of water (According to the instructions, 360 ml is a lot for your flour).

Mode: Rye bread.
It turned out like this: and this is in the context

The next one baked on the advice of Margarita, in the previous recipe I reduced the amount of yeast to 1 hour. spoons and put on the main mode. incision
The result is worse.
Well, the third, the most unfortunate, according to Fugaski's recipe. I used to bake it, it turned out good. Here is the composition:
Room water pace. 300 ml
Olive oil 2 tbsp l.
Buckwheat honey (can be replaced with sugar) 1 tbsp. l.
Fine salt 1.5 tsp.
Wheat flour 325 g
Rye flour 150 g
Dry yeast 1.5 tsp
On main mode
Photo: Incision :
I want to note that the tops of semi-rye bread baked in rye and in the main mode are different. On rye is better, this is on the main , but on rye
Girls, my colleague, at my request, brought bread to work, baked 50/50 rye and wheat flour, as I used to bake (only more water). She bakes in Redmond. Heaven and earth with mine. Normally baked, with a convex top, homogeneous crumb.
In general, I already do not understand anything. I can't get bread with rye flour, regardless of the composition and baking mode.

I can't get bread with rye flour, regardless of the composition and baking mode.

So maybe it's the rye flour? She is generally capricious in baking, I don’t judge rye bread on the roof, only to taste

And try the recipe from the forum "wheat-rye bread with a beautiful roof" by Brad Pita. He even works for me)). Find it through the search, I can't insert a link.

[Varvarka]

Varvarka, what kind of rye flour? How is it stored?



Alternatively: Knead and leave. Will go up to Baking.
See how Masha bakes:
Offline in Moscow (February 2017) # 1261

I studied everything and did the opposite. Baked French rustic with pre-mix. It was necessary to reduce the yeast !!! The roof of the loaf has collapsed, and it's so delicious. But fluff, it turns out, is not for me. In general, I decided to bring this recipe to my own taste, otherwise, since May, everything has been jumping according to different recipes. Thank you very much for such a detailed explanation.

For everyone who loves the Frenchman, try this bread:

The dough is very soft (and bread for a bread machine) on Tang Zhong (Qween)

Very soft, crust is adjustable. Everyone who has tried it likes it! You will not regret.

Girls, I've already tried so many different options: more or less flour, sugar, salt, yeast, and nothing good comes out. Although before everything was fine. In general, I still want to drag the bread maker to the service, my friend will say something sensible.

[Varvarka]

Varvarka,

I tried very hard to explain to you why your bread will not work, even if you go over a bunch of recipes practically the same composition together with modes.
You can even go further and change stoves and run around services. As a psychic: D I say: WILL NOT HELP
I will do the most the last try.
As far as I understand, exactly you , can save ONLY:
wheat flour that you are baking now - you leave it only for wheat bread, and you yourself buy EXCLUSIVELY flour with protein 11 and higher.
You can also buy Panifirin or Dry gluten (gluten). You can put panifirin (gluten) into your version with ordinary flour right now and see the result
Then make a test baking on fortified flour with panifirin.
It should work.
If again it is unsatisfactory, then we change the rye flour as well. If it doesn't work on strong flour with improver, then your rye flour needs a different treatment. Need simpler character.

And .. more advice. Rye flour loves acid. This reduces its detrimental effect on wet crumb.
You would still choose recipes with kefir, vinegar and so on. Just a little bit.

For my taste, this recipe outperforms the original from the book, and by a margin, but again

so mnu now does not have a CZ from the nearest stores, for whey you need to go to the market, you will have to look for flour at 11 protein in the afternoon with fire for a long time, panifirin if you only order on an Internet
In general, within walking distance after work, only makfa and butter with sugar. The question is not tastier, but lazier. But it crunches quite well.

And nobody will refuse the French on tomatoes:. And there was an instruction in the forest ...

Lena, I do not understand why EXACTLY ME will be saved by the replacement of flour. I used to bake these recipes with ordinary flour and everything worked out. So it's the stove?

[Varvarka]

Varvarka,

I gave you a whole treatise above, I even gave you a link from a guru, where he explained to chemistry in a popular way why rye flour makes bread so bad.
It's not about the recipe, but about the peculiarities-quality of the flour that you now have.
If you find a time machine and bring back from the past your torment that you had THEN BEFORE you, when it worked out, then it would work NOW.

Now you have the present tandem wheat flour-rye are not friends. Rye is ruining your flour.
I immediately offer wheat enhance, this is the easiest. Change to a strong one, or at least shove panifirin into a regular one.
Then I propose to curb the slightly rye flour: choose a recipe with the addition of acid, at least a drop.
Or also replace rye, if nothing takes it at all. Fig knows, maybe you just got such a harmful one.

When the assembly is wheat-rye, then wheat should be of very high quality and strong-strong, and rye is not particularly harmful and active. Apparently before you did it. Now you have bought ingredients of a different quality

Lena, don't be offended, please. I am very value for all the advice. But I also changed the flour before I came here. Both wheat and rye (I changed producers). And if I had her bag, and I buy two packs. I will try, of course, to do as you said.

[Varvarka]

Varvarka,

where does the resentment. I just love our oven and our bread and would really like your problem to be resolved. But I see that you are moving in the wrong direction, so I swear

You must understand the cause of the failure and correct it consistently correctly.
Now on those ingredients that you will not get the recipes as they are.

The reason ... fermented rye flour kills wheat gluten and bread shrinks.
You need to strengthen the wheat one. Or .. very cut your rye. STRONG. Exactly enough that she didn't have enough strength to spoil the wheat.
To weaken rye - use sourdoughs, kefir, acid.

Therefore, if you choose 50x50, 40x60 rye / wheat, then you reinforce the wheat panifirin and choose recipes with vinegar-kefir.
Or choose up to 30 -70 recipes ... and just bake. If even 30 percent spoils the mass, then even less rye is needed.
Well, you can't think of anything, do you understand?

two girlfriends are fighting, fighting. One is stronger - the other is weaker (wheat). You need to reconcile them. Or exchange for friendly sisters

I understood about the improvement. I'll try, I need to buy the ingredients. 70 to 30 I get baked already. I posted the photo above. The one that is 350 wheat. 150 different, the result is disgusting. There is probably no point in reducing rye. This is actually wheat bread to taste. I'll buy panifarin, I'll try

[not]

there's something else. You can't guess with rye flour. The only thing is she not must be wallpaper or whole grain rye. This type of rye is very active, although the most concentrated in taste. But this type can only be made with kefir-leavened yeast.
And with wheat ... here at least from the Internet I would order Siberian-Kuban and so on with protein from 11 and higher. For HP with rye - ideal.
please pay attention. Pay attention not to the manufacturer, but to the composition of the flour. On the type of rye and the amount of protein in wheat.
And the one that is ordinary, makfa, falconer and others with protein 9-10 are weak. They need panifirin (gluten).

Yes, I realized that you have to look at the protein content. I have 10. I have peeled rye. Flax, I’m probably dumb, but I don’t understand, now I only have an option to always bake with strong flour or panifarin? And why do others succeed with weak wheat and ordinary rye?