Help with advice on sourdough bread

Hello!
I ask for advice.
I've been baking bread in KhP for a long time. But then I decided to learn how to make sourdough bread.
A successful (unlike the previous ones) option in the photo below.
This recipe (with changes) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=422285.0
Wheat flour sun 400 g
semolina 30 g
water 200 g (added about 15 ml more during kneading)
whole grain sourdough 110 g
honey 1 tbsp. l.
salt 1 tsp
yeast 1 \ 3 tsp
oil drain. 1 tbsp. l. (it is not in the original recipe)
Kneading in HP (the "main dough" program - I have a Panasonic 2500)
Then the dough stood and rose slowly (I did not write down the exact time)
Then she turned on the pizza dough mode and turned it off after a few. revolutions.
An hour later, she turned on the baking for 50 minutes. But the bread was raw, so it included another +15 minutes and another +10 minutes. That is, the total baking time was 1 hour. 15 minutes.
My questions are:
1. Is it okay to have such a long baking time for this recipe?
2. For some reason, the top crust of the bread broke. I made incisions there, because my daughter asked with incisions, as in the photo in the recipe. But the crust did not spread along the incision lines. In the photo, it is not very visible. What could this have come from? Should I have let it stand before baking?
3. Maybe some mistakes need to be corrected? I want to learn how to make sourdough bread

Judging by the top and crumb firmness, the bread is clearly underexposed, and there is probably almost not enough water.
Try adding 20 ml of water, and if possible, after an hour of standing, turn on the batch again, you can interrupt it after 4-5 minutes.

I honestly don’t understand the point here in sourdough with yeast.
It may be easier to take 1 tsp. yeast and just water instead of sourdough, and on a standard program.

[A citizen]

A citizen, thanks for the answer. I will try to increase the amount of water and hold it longer.

I honestly don’t understand the point here in sourdough with yeast.
It may be easier to take 1 tsp. yeast and just water instead of sourdough, and on a standard program.

Yeast in sourdough wheat breads (minimum amount) so that all processes go faster and the bread is not sour. Such bread is still considered sourdough. And that's the whole point.

[Leming]

Leming, it's hard for me to understand from the photo what kind of crumb turned out. But I do not see that it is dense. But it is possible and necessary to add water, because the flour is different for everyone. My recipe has been adapted to suit my flour. Therefore, most often I post a photo of the test, and if not, then I write how it should be.

[Leming]

Leming, it's hard for me to understand from the photo what kind of crumb turned out. But I do not see that it is dense. But it is possible and necessary to add water, because the flour is different for everyone. My recipe has been adapted to suit my flour. Therefore, most often I post a photo of the test, and if not, then I write how it should be.

thank you very much for your reply.
Indeed, I lost sight of the fact that everyone's flour is different, and the leaven, I think, is also different.
So, you need to understand what proportions will be optimal for my conditions.

I made one more bread, adding more water than in the author's recipe. The dough seemed thin to me, but it had already become without my presence, so I did not see the kolobok and could not influence it.
I baked it in the oven. It turned out such a hearth bread, quite decent, with a fine-pored crumb.
It is difficult to say what would have happened if baked in a bread machine.
I will try again



Most oven sourdough recipes are written. I can be pulled out of the house at any time for an indefinite time ... What do you think will happen if the dough piece, which is supposed to be separated, is put in the refrigerator?
The bread has a completely different taste and aroma on the sourdough.

if the dough piece, which should be allowed to stand, is put in the refrigerator?

So this is such a technology. Either fermentation or proofing takes place in the cold. You just need to read in order to understand the principle.

I baked this bar again. This time in the oven.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=422285.0
But again with minor changes in the recipe and jambs.
I replaced some of the water with apple jam (needed to be disposed of). But the water was not enough and it was necessary to add about 70 ml more during the mixing process. As a result, the balance of water-liquid was not the same as in the author's recipe, since the dough turned out to be sticky.
During the baking process, the crust broke, it is almost imperceptible - and the incisions did not help. or I did them wrong.

But the taste of the loaves (I made two of them, not one) is just great. I have an active leaven. I didn’t let her stand. Therefore, the loaf is not sour. And the holes made me incredibly happy
That's what I did.


In general, I think that I managed to learn how to bake with sourdough. Everything else will come with experience

So this is such a technology. Either fermentation or proofing takes place in the cold. You just need to read in order to understand the principle.

Thank you! I tried to ferment the dough in the refrigerator - the dough rose perfectly in 12 hours. I didn't even expect. I made it with flaxseed flour, which is heavy and sticky. But everything was fine!

Hello!
Very much I ask for advice!
I made two starter cultures - rye and whole grain (with the addition of wheat flour). I keep it in the refrigerator (10-12 degrees). Now I feed it every day (about 25 g of starter +25 flour + 25 water). I throw away the rest. She used to keep more. The leaven per night in the refrigerator doubles. It practically does not smell of anything.
Since I work and come late, I am interested in baking exclusively in a BREAD and only with sourdough.
What's in my fridge is a starter? Or a sourdough that you can immediately put in a bowl of hp? I tried to bake bread on the French bread setting with a delay of 3 hours. I took the rye sourdough straight from the refrigerator (there was a lot of sourdough). The bread is beautiful, but very sour. Therefore, I do not bake, I read everything.
I have a complete "misunderstanding" of what to do when he pulls out the leaven from the hollow. And when to pull it out. And maybe this rye is sour?
Thank you in advance. Svetlana.

What's in my fridge is a starter? Or a sourdough that you can immediately put in a bowl of hp?

Svetlana, welcome to the forum!
You know, how many starters - so many opinions. Someone bakes on what they took out of the refrigerator and considers it leaven. This is everyone's right. Let me tell you my opinion: I was taught that I take the starter out of the refrigerator. Always. He stood there for a day or five - it doesn't matter. Before baking, I always feed, and more often two or three times. Well, I like it so much. You have to try this and that. I believe that only by trial you can find your own version.
Good luck with your bread!

[cv-1963]

cv-1963, I bake on rye eternal leaven in KhP on the "French" mode with a delay of 4 hours. I take sourdoughs 60 g. Pre-feed. Perhaps my recipe will be useful to you https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=437767.0

(n) Vika and Natalia, thank you!

After the refrigerator, the leaven should warm up, then the feeding 1 + 1 + 1, and then it should increase 2 times. Right? And then the question: after that, immediately put the program, or do you need to postpone? Will it not peroxide? Or feed it in HP with a delay?
Natalya, unfortunately, I am as far away as the moon for your masterpiece recipe. I don’t understand the basics. Working on a trash can.

Best regards, Svetlana.

There is no need to be afraid of leaven. And you don't need to shake over it. Our ancestors did not have the opportunity to "conjure" with this substance. Understand, you grow the sourdough purely for yourself. You have to feel it, get accustomed to it, like a pet.
I do not feed the leaven (and I have them for every type of flour). They sometimes stand "hungry" in the refrigerator for months. I always revive the starter 1: 1 (flour: water) at night.I use the liquid from 40 to 50 degrees. The kneaded dough sometimes lasts all day (if distracted) and does not sour. Rye sourdough is certainly more sour than wheat or corn sourdough. Bread always turns out to be different: it depends on the conditions and mood, state. I leave part of the dough to feed the sourdough for the next time. Basically I bake pure rye bread twice a week. Wheat - according to the mood of the household. When the leaven turns eleven years old, it will give a quick rise to both the dough and the dough and the product itself, but for now .. wait.
There was a time when all the pastries were transferred to pure sourdough. Yeast type is bad. But, as a chemist by training, I read a lot of literature and realized that it is harmful to fall into fanaticism. So go for it and choose what suits you by trial and error: "Moscow was not built right away."

Nana, thanks!
Infected with optimism!
Of course, you need to feel both the process and the dough. There is only one uncertainty with this. But the starter starter (I think) is good for me. Pleases. I don't dance around her with tambourines, but it's a pity to leave her hungry.
Nana, in your text a starter and a sourdough are different things? You write that you feed the starter, but not the starter.
Best regards, Svetlana.

Nana, thanks!
Infected with optimism!
Of course, you need to feel both the process and the dough. There is only one uncertainty with this. But the starter starter (I think) is good for me. Pleases. I don't dance around her with tambourines, but it's a pity to leave her hungry.
Nana, in your text a starter and a sourdough are different things? You write that you feed the starter, but not the starter.
Best regards, Svetlana.

I have a half-liter jar of sourdough that lives in the refrigerator. This I call leaven. When I start baking bread, I select 1 tbsp. l (approximately) starter culture, dissolve it in very warm water and feed it with sugar and flour. Flour: water is 1: 1. And when I baked the bread, I collect the leftovers from the dishes in which the dough was and feed them the sourdough itself in a half-liter jar from the refrigerator. I don't feed the sourdough anymore. Good luck and success.

Thanks Nana!
Best regards, Svetlana.

Hello! I am again for advice.
She baked bread. It turned out very nice and with a wonderful crumb, BUT sour.
Baked like this:
340 g (110 + 110 + 120) whole grain starter culture with flour of the 1st grade (previously fed 2 times) stood for 3 hours at room temperature. Has risen 3 times.
Then the "French" mode for 6 hours (panasonic).
Wheat flour bread.
Maybe straight into French mode?

[cv-1963]

cv-1963, There is a topic about acid bread https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=389522.0

kuznez84, thanks!
I have already studied this topic, but questions remained with time. I would like to understand-feel on a simple recipe.

[cv-1963]

cv-1963, I don’t remember in what topic I read that there should be a certain percentage of fermented flour in the dough. For wheat 20%, for baking 25%, for rye 30%.
Less is possible. Not desirable anymore. Will affect the taste.

This is how it happened
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/ga...serpics/138778/_____1.JPG
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/ga...serpics/138778/_____2.JPG

Small, sour, ugly.
Weighed everything on a scale, wheat-rye sourdough - 120 g, Wheat flour - 510 g, water - 250 g., Salt, sugar, sl. oil. Bread maker Panasonic 2512, mode 2 basic low-yeast bread.
Tell me what is the reason, I can't understand, it's the third one, maybe the leaven is weak, although it's already a month old.
Nothing works with sourdough yet, but with yeast everything is ok. Help me please.

[Alexander Bayer]

Alexander Bayer, Alexander, sourdough cannot raise bread as quickly as yeast. The program includes two kneading, proving, baking. Proofing for 30-40 minutes. This is very little for a leaven. And the sourness can be due to the high fermentation temperature of the dough (in many modes, the bread maker raises the temperature). Or if you take the unfed starter directly from the refrigerator, or the starter has fermented.

Dear bakers, tell me why the roof of sourdough bread is cracking?
maybe it is excess liquid or vice versa flour? I bake wheat rye, the bun is a little watery, so I can't resist adding a little flour, the bun is still sticky and a little smeared on the bottom, it rises well, and tears the roof off during baking
what to do, what to look for?

Why does sourdough bread crack the roof?

There can be several reasons, of course.
Or there is not enough time for the final proofing.The leaven still has a lot of strength, it accelerates in the oven and tears the roof. Of course, this is more typical for commercial yeast, but also the sourdough can play this way.
Or, in the process of proving, the bread dries up, the crust is quickly baked in the oven, and again, when the temperature rises in the oven, the roof breaks.
You can try making cuts - the bread will open beautifully along the cuts, and not tear the roof.
You can also try baking with steam, or at least sprinkling a loaf before planting in the oven - the crust will not bake so quickly, the bread will have time to rise while everything is soft.
Well, and try to lengthen the final proofing, your leaven is still young, maybe it needs more time ...

this "beauty" came out again

Missed

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, I bake in a bread maker, first I knead the dough on the program, transfer it to the L-11 form and leave it on the rack, when I see that I have risen I turn on the baking
Of course, it doesn't always work out that way, there is also a beautiful crust, but recently it happened a couple of times, I don't understand why

Posted Friday 13 May 2016 10:53 AM

Or there is not enough time for final proofing. The leaven still has a lot of strength,

can still take less sourdough for such a small loaf? i take 200g

when I see that I have risen I turn on baking

Maybe he needs to get up a little more, there he grew up like when baking.

can still take less sourdough for such a small loaf? i take 200g

It is difficult for me to judge the wheat leaven, I have rye.
I take about 150 grams per pound loaf. And this is rye bread, it is more difficult to raise it. So maybe it will be a bit too much ...
I looked at the recipes for sourdough wheat bread - there are about 200 g of sourdough per 500 g of flour. Your little loaf is probably 200-250 g of flour, right? Then you need 100 grams of leaven
And further. The leaven is young, there is still no stability. Now she has one mood, then another. Therefore, the bread is normal, and then the roof will tear off. Here you somehow need to understand her mood and regulate the time of proofing.

a loaf of about 200-250 g of flour, right? Then the starter culture needs 100 grams

yes, I take 100 g of wheat, 135 g of rye and 15 g of bran, 150 ml of water and 200 g of wheat sourdough
next time I will try to take 100 g of sourdough and increase the proofing
thanks for the tips

Do not forget to only add 50 g of wheat flour and 50 g of water to the recipe so that the proportions do not change.

Do not forget to only add 50 g of wheat flour and 50 g of water to the recipe so that the proportions do not change.

Thank you !
but I didn't even think about it

Tell me what you can do.
When I put the dough overnight, it peroxides and naturally the bread turns out sour
when I put it in the afternoon, this does not happen,
maybe you need to change the proportions when you put it at night
I take 100 g of wheat sourdough 100%
50 g of water
50 gr flour

Added Saturday 21 May 2016 01:34 PM

And then I noticed that yesterday, when I was putting the dough, I set aside some of the leaven, fed it and put it in the refrigerator.
and put the dough on the table, in the morning I looked in there scanty bubbles on the surface and smelled very sour
I decided to feed her a little, added 20 grams of water and 20 grams of flour, put it in the turned off oven, looked periodically, but the fermentation process stopped altogether, even small bubbles disappeared
what am I doing wrong?
but looked into the refrigerator and gasped there in yesterday's jar such a hat grew!
don't understand what's going on?

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, your leaven becomes stronger, which means it picks up the yeast faster. Therefore, everything is acidified overnight. So you have to give up the night dough, get up early and start the dough in the morning. For a strong leaven, two to three hours are enough.
When everything is highly acidic, even the yeast begins to suffer, although they love sour.

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, or maybe start a dough and put it in the refrigerator overnight?
in my refrigerator, the starter in jars is almost bubbling ...

Hello girls! I want to share my experience in baking bread with eternal leaven. I have been baking bread since October last year, at the beginning the bread was not very good, to say the least, but the experience came gradually. I bake bread from 3 types of flour. Biru flour 1: 3. 5 tbsp. l rye, 15 tbsp of whole grain and 1 grade of wheat. Over time, I realized that sourdough bread cannot be rushed. It takes 4-5 hours for it to rise well.
I keep the leaven in the refrigerator. I take it out of the refrigerator at night so that it warms up, early in the morning I feed it 3 tbsp. l flour and a little bit of water I mix like thick sour cream. I leave it for a full rise, then I make apara (all the water and half of the flour from the total amount of flour) I leave it like thick sour cream for 3-4 hours, the dough has risen, knead the dough, add honey instead of sugar, only coarse salt without adding a little vegetable oil, the dough should not stick to the hands, we form it in the form of a ball, put it in a bread pan and stand until it rises for 3-4 hours in a cold oven, the bread has risen, you can bake it, I have an oven with auto cooking and there is baking bread. Bread is baked, a roll of 850-900 grams for about 1 hour.