"Eternal" leaven

The oven will be in the oven and I'll probably start with Italian. Can the water with flour in the recipe be slightly reduced by adding more sourdough, otherwise I have 500g of it?

There is a sourdough everywhere of 100% hydration, and now we will calculate how much we have.
Did you take 200g of sourdough + 200g of flour and 100g of water?

Absolutely right.

This: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13642.0 ?
So we will now calculate the leaven more. We will proceed from the amount of water and not the flour in the leaven. If this, confirm, we will count.

This one, this one why you ask, you see right through me.

[Viki]

Viki, and is the top dressing always so thick now?

[Viki]

Viki, and is the top dressing always so thick now?

And we'll see how it will behave.
To be honest, I would separate a part in a day or two and make it liquid to see what will happen. But mom here you are - you decide.
It is this Italian that is convenient because yeast is present there. Although there are few of them, they are enough to help a very young leaven to raise the dough.
In the sourdough recipe, 190 of which 95 are water and 95 are flour, and we will round it a little and focus on 100 g of water. We have 150g flour for every 100g of water. Here we will take 250. Then we will need water as in the main recipe 360g - we do not change anything here. And the flour in our sourdough turned out to be 150 instead of 95, which means that we will subtract 50 - 55 grams from the recipe where the flour is 420g. Is that clear?
Just keep in mind that we found out - your flour seems to be damp. Make sure that the bun is as in the photo in MISHA's recipe.

THE MOST SCARY FOR AN ITALIAN IS TO MIX THE Dough !!!
Will you do the batch in HP? Maximum 10 minutes !!!

[Viki]

Viki, everything is clear, you are a super teacher and resuscitator for leavening. I will try not to let you down. Thanks again !!!

I will try not to let you down.

Let us, to make it easier for me and you, tell us when you plan to start mixing. I was completely lost in time, or rather in the difference in time. It’s 21.20 now, what about you? What time you have to be ready. Otherwise, I’m like that locomotive that I’m late today and will worry. Let's already be on duty while kneading and baking. And then I'm afraid. The first one after all.

Let us, to make it easier for me and you, tell us when you plan to start mixing. I was completely lost in time, or rather in the difference in time. It’s 21.20 now, what about you? What time you have to be ready. Otherwise, I’m like that locomotive that was late today and will worry. Let's already be on duty while kneading and baking. And then I'm afraid. The first one after all.

We have 23.20. No, I am not capable of this ... so that you are also on duty. I already tortured you. I will try to make a batch tomorrow at 9-10, and you sleep well and do not worry, and I promise you the result. If something goes wrong I will come and wake up. With such support, nothing is scary!

And nobody tortured me at all. Holidays - I'm a bum. For a starter, it is important that everything works out. And then some give up this business and say "it did not work out - it means not mine." And everything comes with experience. Then you yourself will help the newcomers and remember me.
Good luck to you! And be sure to read the topic of Italian. There is how it did not work and what was corrected. There is a lot of experience.

Thanks again. Yes, not only to remember you, but I will not forget. You do such good deeds.

[Viki,]

Viki,, Thanks for the quick response.
I am a beginner in this business, I would like to bake both wheat and rye bread in the future, but at the beginning I would like to grow the simplest sourdough, can you learn more about making sourdough with a heating pad or some other devices?
Thank you

... can you find out more about making sourdough with a heating pad or some other device?

I don’t remember what topic it was ... The most convenient option is a heating pad with a regulator. The design was such a heating pad, on top of a grate with legs, we put a thermometer on the grating (lying down) and adjust the heating so that the thermometer was about 30 * C. We find the optimal mode and put our starter culture in a jar on the wire rack. And the leaven grew with a bang!
Someone grew up in an oven with only a light on and got the right temperature.
I myself grew the French liquid sourdough in a yogurt maker. Paper towels were laid on the bottom. I had two layers and folded them in four, two pieces. Received 30 * C. I did not cover it with a lid (yogurt maker).

[Viki]

Woe is me woe! Well, my friendship with sourdoughs does not work out. After yesterday's thick top dressing, she remained in her place. Doesn't bubble at all. Itself became thinner than yesterday. Can you treat her with yeast after all?Viki here I am again to you with questions.

Isn't it dry? No crust on top? And what is its structure inside?

Isn't it dry? No crust on top? And what is its structure inside?

Yes, I myself am surprised at no crust, no unpleasant smell. The pancake-like structure is only thicker. There are no bubbles on top, and several pieces are visible to the sides. Although a few large bubbles have appeared now.

[Viki]

Viki I want to share with you my amateur performance: I did not throw out that liquid ala-leaven (from which I took 100 g and we renewed it), but fed it with rye flour and water (no ratios, so that it turned out thicker). She stood like this one for me and bubbled from above without increasing the volume. Yesterday I got tired of this and I added a bit of yeast and sugar, mixed with water. Today I have it all in bubbles both inside and outside. In general, I kneaded Farmer's bread from part of this sourdough 300g (if mono so to speak) and added 1/3 tsp. yeast. And to my surprise, the dough rises and bubbles. Now I have done the second workout and I am waiting for a 2-fold increase. I fed the rest and put it in the refrigerator, I don’t know what will happen to her, I hope it will survive. : girl_red: I would like, of course, without the use of yeast.

A few large bubbles are good. There will be more of them, you just have a lot of it. Let it stand still.
The second will survive for sure, only after feeding, give her time at room temperature from an hour to three hours before sending it to the refrigerator. If you bake tomorrow, then three hours. And after an hour, it stands in the refrigerator for up to three days without harm to health.

And with enta reluctant will you tell me what to do then? How long does it take for her to gain strength?

And this is someone like. Usually - a maximum of a week and no yeast is needed.
When I grow a Frenchwoman for three days, then on the fourth I bake with a little yeast, the next baking is usually every other day, and these are two or three "blank" feedings. And I'm already baking without yeast. It doubles in two hours.

You have a lot of nonsense. And I would have left 50 - 70 - 100 grams and fed it a couple of times. At first after 12 hours, but I watched. As it rises in 8 hours, it will turn into a hobby.

[Viki]

And this is someone like. Usually - a maximum of a week and no yeast is needed.
When I grow a Frenchwoman for three days, then on the fourth I bake with a little yeast, the next baking is usually every other day, and these are two or three "blank" feedings. And I'm already baking without yeast. It doubles in two hours.

You have a lot of nonsense. And I would have left 50 - 70 - 100 grams and fed it a couple of times. At first after 12 hours, but I watched. As it rises in 8 hours, it will turn into a hobby.

Viki, hopefully a week from my first cultivation? And if from today, then this is how many products I use? From the second I left 50 g and fed, but not so much. And it’s a pity to throw out the rest, it’s like it’s not spoiled, it has muddied bread ala Italiano and in the refrigerator for tomorrow.

[Viki]

And this is my Farm sourdough bread, my first and very delicious bread. It rose very well, 2 times the minimum and the bubbling inside. Viki Thank you again for being with us. Without you, I would have given up on this sourdough venture. And now I want to achieve results from reluctance. Either she is me, or I am her.

And this is my Farm sourdough bread, my first and very delicious bread. It rose very well, 2 times the minimum and the bubbling inside.

Happy firstborn!
Well that's it! A start! Now you are a true leavener!

[tatjanka]

Today I read all the correspondence in 2 days and understood why I got the starter culture. I constantly kneaded it with my hands, when I fed it, and even stirred it with my hands when I tried to saturate it with air. However, yesterday, a negligent mother, almost ruined her daughter - she put it in the refrigerator in full confidence that I had 11-12 degrees upstairs. At the same time, I completely forgot that we were lowering the temperature. Yesterday evening I stuck the thermometer, and there +6. Rather, I took it out, found a place in the apartment, where it was +16, and left to spend the night. Today in the morning I fed me and she forgave me, stands, dear, slightly rises, so magnificent. I just have a question - my sourdough didn't bubble up on top ... in general ... It just rises evenly. Is this the way it should be, since it is thick or did it lack some bacteria-fungi?
tatjanka, pretty bread! Congratulations! Did you bake in the oven? And now I also want Italian ... I've seen enough pictures today.

[Tverichanka]

Tverichanka, Thank you. : flowers: I recently baked bread in the oven. And in HP I do only kneading and proofing. It is faster and more beautiful in the oven. So if you knead with your hands, does it mean that the food for her should be thick?

[tatjanka]

Today I read all the correspondence in 2 days

How is the perception? "Two days in your life are inadequate"?

my sourdough didn't bubble on top ... in general ... It just rises evenly. Is this the way it should be, since it is thick or did it lack some bacteria-fungi?

Liquid leavens bubble up from above. The thinner it is, the smaller the bubbles and their larger. The thicker - the fewer bubbles and they are larger, or even everything inside.
It rises due to bacteria of wild yeast, which feed on the waste products of lactic acid bacteria. It is bad when some are more, and some are less.
Here at tatjanka Our food seems to be all right, but yeast is not enough. We must "take it into our own hands" and give it bacteria. Their native bacteria.

And now I also want Italian ... I've seen enough pictures today.

So you have to bake! I also said, if I’m not mistaken, Napoleon (real, not the same cake) you have to do what you want, otherwise complexes appear.

[tatjanka]

Here at tatjanka Our food seems to be all right, but yeast is not enough. We must "take it into our own hands" and give it bacteria. Their native bacteria.

Or maybe sneeze on her a couple of times and business?

Or maybe sneeze on her a couple of times and business?

Hey hey girl don't abuse!
we need yeast on the skin. As an option - wipe the body instead of a napkin .... Not everything, only open areas, well, those that are not under clothes. In short, the tights can be left on.

Hey hey girl don't abuse!
we need yeast on the skin. As an option - wipe the body instead of a napkin .... Not everything, only open areas, well, those that are not under clothes. In short, the tights can be left on.

Well then, the mask is provided for me. At least some benefit from it. And to be honest, I will not let anyone offended.

[tatjanka]

tatjanka, I have a thick leaven from the very beginning. Thicker than pancake dough. I just didn't make it thinner, because, as a beginner, I act strictly according to the instructions, as much flour and water is said, I put so much. I am still afraid to show amateur performance.
Viki, well, why immediately "inadequate". Quite the opposite is true. We are all adequately approaching the problem of healthy eating. Not without some fanaticism, of course, but this is such a good fanaticism of enthusiastic people. Only very contagious! It is conveyed by a narrative-treating method. The result is the purchase of bread makers by friends and acquaintances and requests to share the leaven. (and the growing bellies of relatives).
And at the end of the day there was an "inadequate" question. So my yeast colony is enough to feed the existing lactic acid bacteria, since the leaven rises? Or splash kefir to make it bubble?

[tatjanka]

tatjanka, a this Temko read?

Or splash kefir to make it bubble?

You will of course do as you decide for yourself, but I'm against it. With our kefirs ... what is not there. Even antibiotics. And then the doctors are surprised that the infection still takes us, but the medicine is gone.
It would not bubble up for you for a day - another, and then withered away. I support the phrase "they don't look for good from good."

[tatjanka]

tatjanka, I have a thick leaven from the very beginning. Thicker than pancake dough. I just didn't make it thinner, because, as a beginner, I act strictly according to the instructions, as much flour and water are said, I put so much. I am still afraid to show amateur performance.

Tverichanka, so I did my first according to the instructions, only it turned out to be liquid for me. As said Viki due to the high moisture content of the flour.

tatjanka, a this Temko read?

Viki Of course I read it (I’ve already spent the night here). Only I don’t have any superfluous ones yet;

[tatjanka]

I also tend to believe that let it go as it goes. The main thing is that the bread turned out on it. ... And, I hope, it will continue to work out. I want Italian. I guess I'll try to bake this week. But will I have time after work ... I'll have to sit at night, guard the stove ...
tatjanka, I also think I have dry flour. And then, flour from different manufacturers is also quite different.

Viki, tell me, please, about the following: a couple of times I fed the sourdough not with peeled flour, but with whole-grain rye and my sourdough began to smell not like an apple, but specifically with yeast .... is it fatal? the sourdough rises after feeding as usual ... I feed it once a day 15 grams of sourdough + 100 grams of flour + water. Stored almost at room temperature, since there is no place in the refrigerator with a rate higher than 8 degrees.

... I fed the sourdough not with peeled flour, but with whole-grain rye and my sourdough began to smell not like an apple, but specifically yeast .... is it fatal?

No, this is not fatal.
But it's better to keep it on peeled, and before baking whole grain bread, take a small part and feed it with whole grain flour. I always do this, and my basis is kind of "purebred", which means it is predictable.

Hurrah! Has earned! Finally, on the seventh day of my attempts to get real sourdough, something started to work out. Happy, words cannot convey. Today I gave the leaven one last chance and it took advantage of it, bubbled up. From most of it, and having already a lot of it, I baked pancakes. And tomorrow I will bake Italian bread. There are a couple of questions left: how do you know that the leaven is hungry and it's time to feed it, keeping it in the refrigerator? or only according to the standard after 3 days? and when can I get her out of the refrigerator and feed her to knead the dough at 9-10 in the morning? Thanks for attention!

Hurrah! Has earned! Finally, on the seventh day of my attempts to get real sourdough, something started to work out. Happy, words cannot convey. Today I gave the leaven one last chance and she took advantage of it, bubbled up.

Congratulations, Tatyanka! It's finished!

There are a couple of questions left: how do you know that the leaven is hungry and it's time to feed it, keeping it in the refrigerator? or only according to the standard after 3 days?

I feed mine every 5-6 days in a large proportion - very little leaven (usually residues on the walls of the dishes in which I fed it before kneading into bread) and 100 g of fresh top dressing. So the sourdough has enough food until the next bake, I usually bake once a week.
She is hungry when she begins to fall after rising, and she will rise in the refrigerator, only slowly.

and when can I get her out of the refrigerator and feed her to knead the dough at 9-10 in the morning? Thanks for attention!

Everything is individual here. You need to time the right time for your sourdough in order to double after you got her out of the refrigerator and fed her for kneading. Then you will know how many hours before kneading you need to get it.

I hope I explained everything clearly

[Arka]

Arka, all understood, we will adapt to each other.: girl_haha: Is it stored in your refrigerator? Is it too much 5-6 days without food? Viki advised to feed for 3 days. : pardon: Today, like you, I also fed the leftovers that remained on the walls and sent them to the refrigerator to rest, otherwise she was exhausted for me in a week.

[Viki]

Viki advised to feed for 3 days.

Meanwhile, Viki continues to insist on feeding no later than 3 days.
Your leaven is young, so it will gain strength. to be beautiful and healthy.

I separated part of the sourdough for baking white bread and feed it with wheat flour. To be honest, I like rye more. She is so lush, bubbly, and very responsive to every feed. And wheat also bubbles, but it also grows more slowly and there is no splendor in it.
By the way, I baked Italian, it turned out delicious. Only the crumb is darkish due to the fact that there was a part of rye flour in the sourdough, and the crust is not fried, but this is a feature of my oven - a ruddy crust is not often obtained. And she didn't even add yeast, but simply increased the amount of sourdough, and not by much, only by 50 grams.
And once again baked black. This time it turned out to be more magnificent, apparently the leaven has "matured".
I am very glad that I finally decided on experiments with leaven. I was afraid that it would not work. But here so many people shared their experiences that I can advise everyone not to be cowardly, but to start trying!

Meanwhile, Viki continues to insist on feeding no later than 3 days.
Your leaven is young, so it will gain strength. to be beautiful and healthy.

It is necessary in 3, so we will be in 3. As you say the teacher! : smartass: Sorry, but I can't help showing off my Italian.

Sorry, but I can't help but brag about my Italian.

That was not enough to "squeeze" and not brag !!!
The Italian is real! Is this the first one? What's next for us?
tatjanka is a craftswoman! I'm proud of you! And I smoothly turn to "you" .... can I?

Tatyanka made a beautiful bread

Vicki, I'm a lazy person, so I rarely feed my little girl, but enough

[Viki]

What's next for us?

Viki and Arka You don’t, well, you just embarrassed me. And then French is waiting for us, I hope it will not be worse.

And I smoothly turn to "you" .... can I?

It is possible and even necessary. And my starter culture is in the fridge, all this kind of grows and bubbles, smart girl. : girl_love: Waiting for her second exit.

[Arka]

I rarely feed my little girl, but enough

Arka, so you have a whole starter monster. Look how strong she is.

tatjanka, we are waiting for the Frenchman. Good luck !!!

[tatjanka]

tatjanka, !!!
I suffered for a long time, but the result !!!

[tatjanka]

tatjanka, !!!
I suffered for a long time, but the result !!!

Tverichanka, Thank you. If you suffer for a long time, something will work out!

Sisters-leavers, I am again with a question. I wander about sourdough bread recipes and put interesting ones in my bookmarks. But I want to ask: if the recipe contains a different leaven, that is, not "eternal", why will I not get bread? Or will it just taste different? Now, if the recipe contains rye sourdough, I think you can just feed it with rye flour before baking. And there are recipes in which grape leaven, what should I do? Raise her too? And I really liked the bread and I want to bake it. Tell the dull one.

And there are recipes in which grape leaven, what should I do? Raise her too?

Of course not, any sourdough will do. It is only necessary to clarify, if it is not indicated in the recipe, how much flour and water are in the sourdough - these indicators may differ in different leavens, and this must be taken into account when recalculating the recipe.

[Arka]

Arka, thanks, calmed down!