"Eternal" leaven

Welcome to the ranks of "bakers"!
I somehow accidentally baked mine myself

And my hubby made a dear taco-o-o-e!

Forgive him! And believe me, it's not so bad. Our husbands ate sourdoughs here and were still indignant "you have some yogurt peroxide" or "the sour cream in the refrigerator was not fresh."

: hi: You won't get bored with you! My husband doesn't eat yogurt, but the older children ... Thank you for warning

[y.tatiana.7]

y.tatiana.7, we also have Temka where about Adventure...

[Wiki]

Wiki, I want to put a wheat eternal, not overfeed, but from scratch.
Do you think I can throw in some whole grain for nutrition? I have a small remainder of c / s flour lying around, it has been standing for a long time, but I read here that it has not been stored for more than six months, it starts to taste bitter in bread.
So maybe her in business?

Or not to show off and overfeed if necessary?

[Wiki]

Wiki, I want to put a wheat eternal, not overfeed, but from scratch.

Wheat "eternal" from scratch? No problems! You do everything as with rye, but it is more convenient to take not 100, but 50 g in total. And most importantly: on the first day you take 50 g rye flour. Do not be alarmed, just once, then wheat and only wheat. Why 50 g each? Because it is not 5 days to grow it, but 7. Imagine this amount.
And if whole grain, then it is not quite like "eternal" is grown. Look at the topic, there Alexandra raised such a beauty.
I overfed whole grain wheat.

And if whole grain, then it is not quite like "eternal" is grown.
I overfed whole grain wheat.

Nope, I don't have enough c / h flour for pure whole grain.
I meant that a little bit to replace simple wheat with whole grain, so to speak, to raise the appetite ...
Or won't it go like this?
And another question: I can use premium wheat or 1st grade (that's all that is available with us).
Which one is better?

wheat can i use a / c or 1st grade?

Any. But I like 1c better.

[Viki]

Viki , I'm waiting for her !!! And she does not go !! What sourdough to make something !!!!

I also read about the leaven and decided to dare in spite of 23C, I turned on the oven and it was 28-30 in the kitchen. I just kneaded it, but for 100 grams of whole grain rye flour, 100 grams of water was catastrophically low: (Not that the dough for pancakes turned out, but some kind of bun, I had to dilute it with almost the same amount of water. did you read it wrong?

[Milada]

Milada, perhaps the flour was well dried, no need to worry.
I always have the first batch - a lump, then it liquefies.
Let's wait and watch.
Good luck!

Omela , good question! I myself am rushing about in doubts ...
I grew a grape, and when I began to feed part of it with whole-grain rye flour, the second part, well, the wheat one, was so offended, I thought I was losing it. I put the French lady on, tomorrow it will be ready. And the grape regained consciousness. Looks like I'll have two tomorrow.
Do something already! And to the competition!

Thanks. I thought about it too.
I read, I read, and I cannot understand. Some write that the eternal leaven for 3 days is ready - go for it and bake, others that the leaven is strong only for 6-7 days, that is, for 3 days it is better not to bake bread, or if you bake it with yeast for fidelity? I read half of this topic and along the way those links that people advised. But the more I read, the less confidence that I will succeed. Before buying a bread machine, I went to the site, started reading everything I advised - the rules of the kolobok, the beginner's guide, the ratio of dry and liquid ingredients, etc. for about a week of sleepless nights. So by the end of the week, instead of being inspired by new knowledge and boldly rushing into battle, I was so scared of the complexity of the process that I wanted not to take the "complicated" baking home anymore. Mother-in-law saved the situation by saying that she had never looked anywhere and everything always worked out. At first, I also baked 2 times, but natural curiosity prevailed. Now I am conducting and I am not afraid of the bun. But where do I put my natural timidity? Rather, doubts. Libra in a horoscope is a heavenly punishment, until I make a choice, I am exhausted.
Sorry for such a long topic. Thank you if you can.

I read, I read, and I cannot understand. Some write that the eternal leaven is ready for 3 days - go for it and bake, others that the leaven is strong only for 6-7 days

It all depends on the factors that influence the leaven. Under all the optimistic conditions matched, the starter is ready for use in 3 days. But we cannot always provide these best conditions, and the quality of flour is different everywhere. So sometimes it takes more time for the leaven to be ready.
Smell (should smell nice), taste (should slightly sour), look (should bubble and rise in volume at least 2 times).
Good luck!

Thank you.
Now it has become more or less clear, I will observe, groom and cherish my new pet. mmm, grow big and fragrant.
Looking a little ahead, which is better? Bake sourdough bread in the French setting or turn it off for 6 hours so that it comes up and then turn on the baking? Or is there no difference and not bother? Will everything be baked in 1 baking cycle or will you need to add time to a medium loaf?

Looking a little ahead of time, what is better to bake sourdough bread in the French setting or to turn it off for 6 hours so that it comes up and then turn on the baking? Or is there no difference and not bother? Will everything be baked in 1 baking cycle or will you need to add time to a medium loaf?

Personally, I couldn't bake rye bread on the machine, because by the time of proofing it was always different and I just had to seize the moment.
I didn't bake wheat, I can't tell you.

I fed my "girl", she is so bubbling and doubled
How do you feed? Pour dry flour into the sourdough and dilute with warm water or stir it in a separate container and add the ready-made gruel to the sourdough?
And I understood correctly - I will grow it for 3 days, then I want to make waffles. How much starter should you leave? I read that the people around st. he leaves the spoons in the refrigerator, then they pulled them out, she walked for a couple of hours, fed them and a couple of hours to get up, then bake. And on this st. a spoonful of 100 flour and 100 water will not be much? Will she have time to ripen in a couple of hours? Or should you leave more? I want to keep the leaven warm for 6-7 days before the refrigerator, so that it becomes strong, but there will be a lot of it, so on day 3 I want to halve it and make waffles. By the way, if you do not half, then 100 water and 100 flour will not be enough for feeding such an amount of yeast? Well it will be 600-800 grams for 4 days, and only 200 food

I feed it like this: first, water, shake it, then flour and stir

For storage, it is necessary to feed in a greater proportion than the weight of the starter itself, so it has something to do while waiting, up to 1: 10.

Something a lot of your starter culture has grown, put it in good hands, if it's a pity to throw it away, you can also find here how to use unnecessary https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9332.0

yes, no, not yet. Today is day 2. But don't you need to throw it away? I read again the first page of the topic and the topic of storing the leaven, it seems like nowhere is it written about the release of this particular leaven.
I don't need much - 2 times a week. I bake bread and on weekends waffles-pancakes-pancakes. What is the best way to proceed? Day 3 tomorrow. Can I bake waffles tomorrow? If you add 200 grams every day (100 water + 100 flour), then on day 3 it will be just 600 grams. Or have I counted something wrong? I thought I would use 300 grams, add the sourdough for 3 days and bake bread, and then about 300 grams will remain on the trail. bread. Right?

But don't you need to throw it away?

It is not necessary and even a pity, we must put everything into business

and then about 300 grams will remain on the trail. bread. Right?

for the next bread, if you bake it right away - ok
but if you store the leaven before that, then feed it, and only then in bread, then 300 g for storage is clearly a lot. Leave 25-50 grams for the next bread.

but if you store the leaven before that, then feed it, and only then in bread, then 300 g for storage is clearly a lot. Leave 25-50 grams for the next bread.

And if, for example, I need 400 grams of sourdough for bread, can I leave 200 grams?
Why am I so affectionate - I do not want to throw it away and am afraid for the figure. Once I dropped 20 kg, the second 10 kg, so I can't do more than the oven wrote.

And if, for example, I need 400 grams of sourdough for bread, can I leave 200 grams?
Why am I so affectionate - I do not want to throw it away and am afraid for the figure. Once I dropped 20 kg, the second 10 kg, so I can't do more than the oven wrote.

You know, it's probably better to start practicing, and you yourself will understand how much starter you personally need. Too many "ifs" have to be painted ...
From personal experience: the longer you keep the leaven idle, the less you need to leave it. Because in the interval it needs to be fed and by the time of baking it can get a sufficient, or even more than necessary, amount of sourdough.

thanks for the advice and help
I will probably practice tomorrow. Although tomorrow is only 3 days. A bit early, I guess.
I went and interfered with it and sniffed at the same time. Here they wrote that she smells of sour apples. Hmm, she smells like rotten apples to me, my husband said braga. This is normal? Is that how it should be? My child just coughs, so we wondered if we would grow a strain of staphylococci?

If it still smells of mash, then tomorrow you are unlikely to bake something. Take your time, there have not yet bred ICD, only yeast is walking. Feed her and cherish!
Somehow at the stage of "mash" the sourdough was inhibited, I had to deal with it as follows https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=41.0 read and see the photo report

Oh, thank you very much.
I was really inspired and perked up.
Well, I want everything and I can do everything

Something does not want my leaven to rise
Today is day 3. It smells good, but not sour apples, and sour watermelons, I would say so. Small bubbles all over the surface, but absolutely does not grow.I fed her at 12, put a mark to control the rise, heated the oven to 30C, put a thermometer there (well, everything was the same as 3 days ago), but it did not rise at all. 2 times from 12 interfered with it. What is she missing? I already thought to cut her in half and feed her again. Or not to twitch and just wait? Or did she "become" with me? Or maybe she's just still weak?

Or not to twitch and just wait?

Don't just wait, but feed by the hour.
On the third day, he has every right not to rise.
Let's wait together.

how is it on the clock? to feed all the same 100-100 or 200-200 water and flour? I re-read the topic, they just write to wait or even put it in the refrigerator. I thought to wait.
I have whole grain rye flour, maybe I just had to take rye?

On the third day we fed 100 and 100, we are waiting for a day. Should start growing. But whole grain flour is tricky. It is possible that it will be necessary to separate half, feed 100 and 100 again, and then only the growth will begin.
Keep an eye on her, otherwise it was "not growing, not growing, then just ran away from the bank.

Today is 4 days. She smells good, all bubbles, but absolutely not grown. You just read my thoughts - I want to halve it and feed 100-100, or, as an option, I thought to pour 300 grams of flour and 300 water into it (this is just its weight now). Is it possible to separate half to make pancakes, for example, and continue the persuasion with half? Or will it not go for pancakes yet? Maybe it's hot at 30C? At 12 you need to feed, so there is time to make a decision

Well, I don't know what else she needs
I put 200 grams in another container and fed her 100-100. but already with wheat flour, the main one (about 400 grams of it) I fed 200-200 rye flour and water.Silence is complete, 1.5-2 hours have passed

1.5-2 hours have passed

One and a half - two hours is not an indicator, we wait 24 hours.
It won't rise in 5 days, that's when we'll start to worry.

rose somewhere by 1-1.5 cm from 12 o'clock, I stirred it at about 18 and almost immediately it rose again, sour, it smells like apples pleasantly, pleasantly. The part to which she added wheat flour was put on Anadama's bread, although it underwent changes and did not dare without yeast. But I didn't want to throw away the leaven either.
And in what proportion to feed her tomorrow? This morning I had 600 g of sourdough minus 200 and plus 200 flour-200 water, that is, 800 total sourdough will be in the morning. Half again?

rose somewhere by 1-1.5 cm from 12 o'clock, I stirred it at about 18 and almost immediately it rose again, sour, it smells like apples pleasantly, pleasantly.

Well! Everything is fine! So that it is beautiful and funny healthy 3 days is not enough for her. But five is just right. Proven by practice.

Half again?

I would halve it. But the choice is yours.

it seems like the process has begun, yesterday at about 11 pm it rose by 3 cm, nosiness manifested itself, I have it in a 2-liter glass bowl. I'll cut her in half, and how much flour should I give her for 400 grams? 200 is not enough?

... how much flour to give her for 400 g? 200 is not enough?

200 is what you need!

In general, flooded what is called Almost 2 times increased, well, 2/3 for sure. Next time I'll take a jar, otherwise the bowl expands upward and it's difficult to navigate how much the leaven has increased.
Thank you very much for your help and support.
In the evening I will put the rye dough according to the Arka recipe for fermentation in the refrigerator. now I decided to make waffles https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=101996.0
But waffles are not baked at all. The dough is as if liquid. She was fluffy only when she grew up, and mixed with the ingredients she does not want to make the dough loose and viscous. What to do about it? Maybe I pulled it early, it was still necessary to wait for growth? It's just that my bowl didn't really allow me to. I was afraid that I would run away and put some of it on the waffles.

py. Sy. Made pancakes - what a delight

[Milada]

Milada, on my waffles, too, the dough is liquid and you can't see it bubbling, but the output is marvelous perforated waffles (crunchiness is regulated by fat content, that is, the fatter the dough, the more crunchy the waffles are, and if you make the dietary option, you get more pancakes)

As for the bread, check that the dough does not turn out to be too liquid, since flour in the off-season itself is high humidity. I never knead the dough hard because I don't like crumb that is too dense, so my recipes tend to have more water than most other recipes. For HP this is suitable, but for the oven you need to add flour.
If you have any questions, write in the subject line or in a personal message.
Happy bread!

[Milada]

MiladaAs for the bread, check that the dough is not too liquid, since flour in the off-season itself is high humidity. I never knead the dough hard because I don't like crumb that is too dense, so my recipes tend to have more water than most other recipes. For HP this is suitable, but for the oven you need to add flour.
If you have any questions, write in the subject line or in a personal message.
Happy bread!

I just put it in the refrigerator. The dough does not seem to be liquid, I mixed 1.5 tablespoons of flour, twisted the bucket itself into a film. Now my refrigerator haunts me - there is 6C. Will my bread freeze?
Tomorrow at 7 am I take it out and immediately go to HP for gluten-free or let it stand for a couple of hours, rise? The oven will be in xn. Thanks for the help.

I put it in the refrigerator at +13, because I was afraid that the ICD would die ...
+6 is too little !!!
maybe better on the balcony?

Well! Everything is fine! So that it is beautiful and funny healthy 3 days is not enough for her. But five is just right. Proven by practice.

It seems to me that it would be useful for beginners to read about a possible 5 days in the very first post. Can you make an amendment? : girl_claping: Panic is not real when it does not grow, and they will ask fewer questions.

I put it in the refrigerator at +13, because I was afraid that the ICD would die ...
+6 is too little !!!
maybe better on the balcony?

Thank you. I took it to the balcony, but it’s probably a little lukewarm there around 16-18C.
It turns out that I can't even keep the leaven in the refrigerator?

Thank you. I took it to the balcony, but it’s probably a little lukewarm there around 16-18C.

so if the dough grows 2-2.5 times in the morning, then bake right in the morning

It turns out that I can't even keep the leaven in the refrigerator?

buy specials thermometer for the refrigerator and select the optimal temperature with the regulator, and on the shelves t is different
I think you will pick up something
my top turned out to be the warmest, there t fluctuates 12-13 gr., then what is needed

I go with a report
So, I spent the night on the balcony, at 7 in the morning I put it on Gluten Free (I really only have an hour before baking), so after resetting and re-proofing it on Gluten Free I left it for 50 minutes with a warm HP - I wanted to sleep
Then 1 hour 30 minutes of baking and 2.5 hours in a towel.
It seemed to me that maybe the bread needs more time, or I forgot the taste of black bread, that it is somewhat humid. The crumb is a bit like plasticine if you squeeze it. So it should be or where are my mistakes? I didn't even expect that the first time something would work out I did it without cumin and the coriander was a bit old, so it has little aroma, but it tastes good
Do you need less malt to make it less bitter? I put 40 grams.

The height is 8 cm. After the balcony, it seemed to fit very very little, and on heating 1.7 + baking gave rise to 2 times. It can be seen from the side by the flour strip. Am I navigating correctly or is it some other strip?




Py. Sy. The leaven doubled by the morning, but it smells of acetone, I interfered with it, the smell was almost all gone, fed it, came in 2 hours - it doubled again, but throw it away with the same smell or are there ways of resuscitation?

[Milada]

Milada, on the photo the crumb seems to be good. Has the bread completely cooled down when it was cut? As for the "plasticine" of the crumb, I remember in my childhood perfectly used this property, sculpted balls of rye bread for fishing
On the roof you can see that it has moved a little. It is better to do without night proofing, since it is impossible to leave in the cold (12-13 gr.).

Now for the leaven. You didn't feed her anymore? If not, then acetic acid could have accumulated in it from hunger. The smell is most likely vinegar, not acetone.
When the leaven after feeding increases by 2-2.5 times - it is at its peak, then it is put into the dough. And if, after growth, it begins to fall off, then it must be fed again, otherwise it will weaken from the accumulating acetic acid.
If the leaven is acidified, take 1 tbsp from it. l. and feed in large proportions and don't let her starve anymore.

Yes, you're right - I cut it a little warm. Now everything is buzzing. Well, like from a store. I am happy as a child. Thank you very much for the recipe, and for your help and support. I do not get tired of thanking everyone for their help
What would I do without you?
I fed the sourdough without waiting for 12 hours and after 2 hours it doubled again and smelled harshly, after mixing there was a barely noticeable smell and again smells like sour apples. I stirred it for the last time, but it rushes upward every 2 hours. why feed her every time?
Now I’ll put aside the spoon, but can the others even wash their heads? Or is she bad already? Mom teaches not to throw anything away
Strange, now feed her 2 times all the time? Previously, from feeding to feeding, she just rose, but now such a miracle-smelly happened ...

So after all, it used to form and grow ... but now it is a glutton
try to store it on the balcony, it will be slower to mumble, and set up the refrigerator, otherwise you will have to bake without interruption and give bread to good hands ... although it is pleasant to treat, but you can bake breathlessly
It is unlikely that the leaven has deteriorated, but rather sour. Add it to whatever you come up with, even as a body scrub
Wish you new deeds!
And the bread must cool completely! After all, he continues to mature at this time

So she did - you are simply brilliant.
Now I’ll sculpt with sourdough. But I already ran into the first failure - I tried to bake Anadama, but I didn’t count the amount of sourdough correctly, if I wasn’t ripe yet, but the bread did not rise at all even with 1 tsp of yeast. Back to the tried and tested recipe from Admin.
Can you help me figure it out?

Admin recipe:
Wheat flour - 550 grams
Corn flour - 70 grams
Curd whey - 150 ml. (I put kefir down, then I added more water to 200, and maybe more, because the first time the roof went off)
Large eggs - 2 pieces
Honey - 60 milliliters.
Butter - 30 grams
Salt - 1.5 tsp.
Yeast SAF-moment - 1.5 tsp
I would take 300 sourdoughs (or the quantity of sourdoughs can be brought up to 400 here? What proportion should be used? How to navigate, is there not a lot of sourdough for a recipe?), 400 flour and 50 water, everything else according to the recipe.
Correct calculation? Well, the control of the kolobok is-no.

You are just brilliant ...

Back to the tried and tested recipe from Admin.
Can you help me figure it out?

With this - straight to Admin! She's a Pro! Moreover, the bread is hers!
We have here accepted questions on a specific topic to ask the author in the topic itself!
So, run to Admin!

And the genius is Vicki! She taught me everything!
Vicki, this is for you

Thank you. Admin went to search

Admin recipe:
Wheat flour - 550 grams
Corn flour - 70 grams
Curd whey - 150 ml. (I put kefir down, then I added more water to 200, and maybe more, because the first time the roof went off)
Large eggs - 2 pieces
Honey - 60 milliliters.
Butter - 30 grams
Salt - 1.5 tsp.
Yeast SAF-moment - 1.5 tsp
I would take 300 leavens. Or the quantity of leaven can be brought up to 400 here?

By the amount of the leaven, it is easier to focus on one thing - either flour or liquid.
In this recipe, I would replace all the whey with a liquid in sourdough, which is 150 g, which means it will be more convenient to take 300 g of sourdough (150 g water and 150 g flour) and subtract 150 g from flour (wheat) in the recipe, and you get 400 g of flour ...
And nothing was written about "50 water".
How to calculate the leaven depends on your free time. More leaven - faster result. The main thing is to introduce no more than half of the flour from the recipe when mixing with sourdough. They say a third of the flour in the recipe is perfect. So we focus on a third - half of the flour from the recipe. Less is possible, more is not.