"Eternal" leaven

[tiamosofia]

tiamosofia
I won't tell you what to do with your leaven, because I myself am a beginner and still do not understand much, but I can advise you to make less leaven, this time. Take initially smaller proportions, for example, 20 by 20 or 40 by 40 (everything is the same), so that after baking 10 grams of sourdough remains. Calculate how much you need for baking according to the recipe and calculate how you should deduce it, so that the output will be a normal amount, and not a pound.
It is better not to leave the leaven in the refrigerator for more than 3-4 days without food, that's two. We put 10 grams, after 3-4 days they got it, fed another 10 + 10, let it stand a little and put these 30 grams in the refrigerator again, after 3-4 days they took it out again, fed another 30 + 30, allowed it to stand and these 90 grams were removed again ... In the next. since it is better to bake so that a lot of it does not accumulate, because the more leaven, the more flour it needs. If you need to bake earlier, for example, after 5 days, then they took out the leaven, fed it so that the amount according to the recipe was obtained + 10g for storage + 7-15 for spreading on the jar (depending on which jar and how carefully you can collect from it sourdough). But it is nevertheless desirable that the flour for feeding before baking be the same as with ordinary feeding, no less than the weight of the starter itself (sourdough from the refrigerator). That is, consider / figure out for yourself when you will bake next time and how much to initially leave for storage, and how to feed it, etc.
If, nevertheless, there is no way without "utilizing" the surplus, then it is better to understand this sooner rather than later and to "utilize" a part before feeding, that's three .. That is, if you have already accumulated 90g (and after feeding it will be 270), and you are not going to bake in the next couple of weeks, then take 5-10 of these 90 grams, feed them and put them away, and put the remaining 80-85 on pancakes / pancakes / face masks. Frying 80 grams a couple of times a month is easier and more economical than throwing away a pound.
The same is true if you need 200gr for baking, and you have 90g in your refrigerator, for example. After feeding and baking, 60-65gr remains (90 * 3-200, taking into account smearing on the can). They took 5-10 grams, fed them and put them in the refrigerator, the rest 50-55 were "fried" or put into some other non-core business.
Hope it helped in some way. And that someone experienced will help you to reanimate your little animal (again, it would be better to take a little from it for resuscitation, and "adjust" the rest somewhere). Good luck!

[Sparkle]

Sparkle, thank you very much for the answer and for such detailed explanations! It’s hard for me with this - with the calculations, I do everything by eye and by chance, henceforth I will be more attentive
Maybe you can also answer me this question: everywhere they write that you can leave a piece of ready-made dough at room temperature for several days and then add it to the next dough as a leaven, which is logical, given the presence of the necessary bacteria in it. So the question is: what is better - keep the starter in the refrigerator and wake it up before baking, or leave some dough from the last time? There is still such a nuance that I bake different breads, now Borodino bread, now half wheat, can I add a little different dough?
PS: and my leaven seems to come to life, it has stood for a day in the warmth, the bubbles have gone, I, as you advised, left a little and fed it, hid the rest in the refrigerator, I will look for another use for it. By the way, another question, sorry. For fritters / pancakes, should the leaven be awakened according to the same scheme? That is, a starter will not work, you need a working starter culture?
Thank you thank you thank you!

[tiamosofia]

tiamosofia

I won't tell you about the dough, honestly. I don't really understand myself. But in my opinion, the dough is almost the same sourdough, only with different proportions of flour / water and additional. components.IMHO, after a few days in the room she will be angry and hungry) .. Which means very sour. I would try to put a dough on it overnight (take, for example, a third of the recipe flour and the same amount of water, knead and leave at room temperature), and knead the dough in the morning. So that she can eat, gain strength and have time to get hungry, but not oxyderate.

With pancakes, ask a question in the topic "what to do with" excess leaven, I somehow am not friends with them (pancakes). I still can't get them) .. And I see it somehow like this: they took it out of the refrigerator, allowed it to warm up, put some of the flour and water equal to about its mass, let it rise, threw the rest of the ingredients, gave it half an hour or an hour to stand and frying pan. It just seems to me that if you put everything in a small amount of hungry sourdough at once, it may not be overpowering ..

Tell me, help. And then something sourdough bread usually does not work.
I have two starters - one French, the other rye. I cooked for a long time - now I support life, but they do not grow well, and bread / rolls usually have a sour taste - on both.

Question 1. Am I keeping them correct? I take 5 g of sourdough, feed 20 g flour, 20 water, put in a cold place. According to the recipe, it was written to feed once a day, but it does not rise for me in a day, it can rise to the second, maybe to the third. Therefore, I feed it - when I see that it has risen - the same way - I take 5 g of it that has risen, etc.
When I take it for cooking (last time with rye) - I take all the leaven, add flour / water 50/50, from 45-60 g of the starter - for 200-400 g. And put it in a warm place for 6-8 hours. A dry crust forms on top (covered with gauze) - well, I've already read about the film, I'll try it next time. In terms of volume, it practically does not rise, well, one and a half times, but it acquires a bubble structure.
Well, the dough usually rises badly too.
I made bread yesterday https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=178106.new#new, so for 2 prescription hours, she left no gu-gu, overnight. By the morning it rose, but when baking opal, it tasted peroxid, not at all. There initially the bun was not formed, I do not know what to do in such cases. I tried adding water, it didn't help.

2. How to deacidify the leaven? I can see that the French is sour.

3. And one more thing - I make rye and feed it with freshly ground flour, probably it is closer to wallpaper, the leaven is very thick. I thought maybe she's not growing because of this - I started adding more water. Is this correct or is it better to keep the proportion 100%?

Tell me, help. And then something sourdough bread usually does not work.
I have two starters - one French, the other rye. I cooked for a long time - now I support life, but they do not grow well, and bread / rolls usually have a sour taste - on both.

sorry, I might be in vain, but I'll stick it in ..
after reading your appeal, I decided to share my little experience.
as I do (again, after reading the knowledge from this topic) ..

I have overfeed sourdough.
that is, I started it originally as rye.
and literally after 2 full feedings (that is, the leaven was already ripe), I switched it to wheat flour.
did it because the sourdough on rye white bread is no longer ice!
but from the sourdough on wheat - rye is quite ice! and white too.

so in the refrigerator door (t = + 12 degrees) there is a liter jar (closed with a plastic lid with holes) with 100 grams of leaven.
these 100 grams are the remainder of the previous baking.

I take the jar out of the refrigerator about an hour before the start of the action and put it simply on the kitchen table (i.e., at room temperature).
although, you can immediately and start in principle - without keeping this hour.

I heat the filtered water to 25-35 degrees in the microwave (slightly lukewarm) in the amount of 100 grams and pour it into a jar with sourdough.
I stir it all with a spoon.

I pour 100 grams of wheat flour into this jar (any - I have the highest "Makfa" and the 1st "Alekseevskaya" at home) and also stir until smooth with a spoon.
With an elastic band from a wad of money, I mark the initial level of leaven in the jar.

and put the jar on the battery, next to it I put a thermometer.
timing.
I watch the temperature in 4-5 minutes.
ideal - 35 degrees.
if under 40 - then I put a light towel under the jar and also watch the temperature after 5 minutes (d. 30-35 degrees).

after half an hour from the beginning, I fix the beginning of the rise of the leaven (1 cm somewhere higher than the gum it becomes).
after 1.5 hours from the beginning - the leaven is 2 times higher than the gum already.
after 2-2.5 hours - the leaven is 3 times higher than the gum (almost near the lid!)!

for me this is a signal - the leaven has reached its peak (further I am afraid to continue the process - suddenly it will start to fall off!)
well and further - we create a kolobok:
-empty bucket of HP on the scales
- turning on the scales (on the display "0")
- pouring the starter culture (200 grams)
and then according to the recipe ..

and the jar with the leftover sourdough culture is back in the refrigerator door, closing the lid with a hole!
and like this, every 3-4 days, I have the process of baking bread.
I bake both rye and wheat.

I do not make any more passes with leaven.
only everything described above.

once my leaven was not in use for 6 days. (i.e. all 6 days I stood stupidly in the refrigerator door)
and nothing happened to her - it started up like a pretty one, with a half turn!
here on the forum I read and more people stood - like a couple of weeks.
and nothing too - it worked fine.

the main thing (IMHO) is that the storage temperature in the refrigerator is kept more precisely.
if the temperature is above 12 degrees (well, 13-15 for example), then the processes in the leaven are more intensive and the storage time decreases, of course.
if the temperature is below 10 degrees, then lactic acid bacteria (one of the constituent parts of the leaven) begin to die there.

and yet, I don't know ...
storage of 5 grams of sourdough can be - also not good.
it’s too small!
the law of transition from quantity to quality has not yet been canceled.

Yesterday I baked milk bread with sourdough - it turned out just fine!
very beautiful loaf in appearance, with a silvery sheen of the crumb on the cut!
the shape of the crumb holds wow how!
I could not crush it!
all the same, it immediately unfolds in its former form.
well, and the taste is very pleasant!
good luck with your baking! (and not only)

And I somehow can't overfeed the rye sourdough for wheat
The rye is bubbling and growing. The first time I feed her 1: 1: 1 (that is, for example, I take 50 g of rye sourdough, add 50 g of wheat flour and 50 g of water) and she grows. I bake white bread on it - it rises well, but it's still gray, but I want snow-white ...
I feed the second time as it should be for 100 g of sourdough, 100 g of wheat flour and 100 g of water. Now she no longer rises, but sleeps. So for several days to no avail. As a result, I threw it out.
Help, I really want a pure white bread !!!

I feed the second time as it should be for 100 g of sourdough, 100 g of wheat flour and 100 g of water. Now she no longer rises, but sleeps. So for several days to no avail. As a result, I threw it out.
Help, I really want a pure white bread !!!

In-in! I have about the same .. With flour, apparently, everything is bad with us, completely "refined". The first time the rye "pulls out", and the second time all the processes "die". You probably need to either feed the whole grain periodically, or pick up some other flour ..

[trtvk]

trtvk thanks for the detailed description. I would like all of us to read and then repeat overfeeding into wheat leaven.

I somehow tried to do it, but it was not there

Yes, there is nothing unusual in translation from rye to wheat like.
When I did this, I only had a higher wheat Makfa.
It's just that when I grew the eternal on rye, after a couple of pastries I realized that I would no longer get pure white bread with this sourdough, that's why I decided to switch to feeding with wheat flour.
And stupidly, before the next baking of bread, I fed the sourdough with makfa.
And then he fed her only wheat flour. That's the whole secret.
Already 2.5 months have passed since it was transferred to wheat.
This morning I took out 100 grams of leaven from the refrigerator in a jar.
I added 100 water + 100 flour there. Stirred on the battery (35 degrees).
After 2 hours, the sourdough grew exactly 3 times from the initial level after kneading.
Everything is extremely simple.

After 2 hours, the sourdough grew exactly 3 times from the initial level after kneading.
Everything is extremely simple.

Even my rye doesn't grow like that! You have a favorable atmosphere at home

Even my rye doesn't grow like that! You have a favorable atmosphere at home

Thank you. I really don't believe in mysticism.
Although there are opinions on the forum that in different cuisines there is a different amount of wild yeast in the air. Somewhere more, somewhere less. But, this circumstance rather affects the leaven at the initial stage of its formation. That is, when it should only be generated from freshly mixed flour and water.
And when the leaven is already in the kitchen, then it only remains to feed and groom it.

But I remember the beginning of my life with sourdough (well, when it was rye) and it seemed like it was not as "quick-firing" as it is now (converted into wheat).

But I remember the beginning of my life with sourdough (well, when it was rye) and it seemed like it was not as "rapid-fire" it was as it is now (converted into wheat).

I also want a quick-fire. I put it on the battery 2 hours ago ... I'm waiting ... until very little bubbles appeared

I also want a quick-fire. I put it on the battery 2 hours ago ... I'm waiting ... until very little bubbles appeared

Go for it and you will succeed!
Good luck!

Yesterday I baked milk bread with sourdough - it just turned out great!
very beautiful loaf in appearance, with a silvery sheen of the crumb on the cut!

Thank you for the answer, I tried as you wrote, but I did not understand it that way. I fed 3 more times, and did not hide in a cold place. After that, it began to look like a normal leaven - it bubbled, although so that it did not rise 2-3 times anyway.

With a silvery sheen? By the way, I also made milk, it is white and white. Or did you do it with whole grain flour?

Thank you for the answer, I tried as you wrote, but I did not understand it that way. I fed 3 more times, and did not hide in a cold place. After that, it began to look like a normal leaven - it bubbled, although so that it did not rise 2-3 times anyway.

With a silvery sheen? By the way, I also made milk, it is white and white. Or did you do it with whole grain flour?

did you maintain the temperature regime exactly?
well, less than 30-40 degrees, whatever.
and, if it is bubbling, then it will work!
and will rise quickly. well, maybe in a couple of cycles, but it will be!

but bread yes ..
it turned out on the cut white white and even with a tint of silver a bit.
maybe a game of imagination? I do not know..

After the second feeding, it doubled

In the evening I bake bread on it.

Hello everyone, Happy New Year. Help me to understand. According to the sourdough recipe, one loaf needs 120-200g. If we put the leaven from scratch by the end of the third day, we have 600 grams of this miracle. And before each baking, it must be fed approximately the amount that we will take for baking. It turns out that we constantly have 500-600g of sourdough? I read somewhere here that the sourdough should be fed every 10 days for a three-day period. so this is what I get for a year this miracle will be a ton. Or did you misunderstand something?

Holiday greetings!

I just put in the starter with a lower proportion. 30 to 30 and did the same. As a result, there was much less at the exit and I even had the opportunity to feed her at idle for a couple of days to gain strength.

If there is a lot of starter culture and you do not use it in such an amount, then either throw away some of it and feed a small amount, or if your hand does not rise, then bake pancakes / pancakes from it.
You just need to have 5-50 grams of sourdough and feed it to the right amount before baking. And if for some reason it has accumulated, then take a little bit, feed it, and “dispose of” the rest in a way that is acceptable to you.

A three-day feeding to her once every 10 days should be carried out if you bake every 2 weeks and all this time she lives in your refrigerator. And if you bake regularly and feed her regularly, then this is not necessary.

I bake every 2-3 days, my eternal is in the refrigerator at a temperature of 10-12 degrees. If tomorrow I'm going to bake, then in the evening I take it from the refrigerator (I have 25 grams there), feed it to make as much as needed for baking + 10 grams for spreading + 5 for storage and leave it in a cool (15-19 degrees) place overnight. In the morning I put the right amount in the dough, feed 5 grams 10 + 10 and put it back in the refrigerator. Next time it's all over again.

Just look at your temperatures at home, recipes and starter appetites .. I feed so that it turns out 350-400g of starter culture and it's cold at home. If it is hot or you need 150-200 according to the recipe, then take less starter (what lives in the refrigerator) and leave it for a shorter time so as not to over-acid. Or vice versa, more starter and in a warm place, then the starter will be ready quickly. It is convenient for someone.

Good luck!

Thank you very much for your answer, I went to bake pancakes. And 5g is one tablespoon. Okay, I'll try according to your scheme.

Oops. I missed it. The perky sour. I understand it is possible to determine the toilet? or is it being treated?

And what does it mean sour? If it's just a sour smell, then feed her and everything will be ok.

:) I started baking pancakes, sour to the point of impossibility. or was it necessary to somehow dilute the leaven before baking the pancakes?

You must, of course) .. Search for recipes for sourdough pancakes ..

Tell me please!!!! This is the first time I make a leaven, but within 3 days it has not doubled, although everything is so fluffy and smells sour. I am doing something wrong, why does not it rise as everyone describes it. I make it with whole grain rye flour. Thanks for the answer.

The hummingbird, I do not add up - "fluffy" and "did not double". How can this be? Explain. And write the consistency of the leaven. Perhaps it is too liquid to rise, or vice versa, too steep.

Thanks for the answer! Yesterday I put it on the battery and barely managed to catch it, so it jerked up))))) She was slowing me down, although it's warm at home))) But now everything is fine

Congratulations!

Hello dear starters!
Help who can! I have eternal leaven since April 2012, I bake bread in a bread machine. Everything was in order, it worked like a clock. And now something is beginning to happen to her not quite right. Bread picks up badly. The last time it was completely covered with a silvery coating that looked like mold! What's going on with her? Tell me!

I found such information in the open spaces: the leaven can be dried, the finished leaven can be smeared with a spatula on a sheet of baking paper, dried naturally (not in the oven), as it dries, removed from the paper, broken and stored in a jar (or dishes) at room temperature. If God forbid something happens to your leaven - dry will help to fix everything. You just need to pour a little dry sourdough with water (to the consistency of a paste), let it stand, and then as usual. I tried it - it works. Can someone help if this information is on the site - sorry! Well, repetition is the mother of learning! Good luck and delicious bread to everyone!

Good evening! I am a beginner baker, just got a bread maker and am now experimenting with different types of bread. I really want to bake sourdough bread. I put my first sourdough - after 24 hours I started feeding it, I look, and it stratified (water on top) and the smell is not very pleasant. She began to stir it, like it was slightly foaming from below under the water. After another 24 hours, water is again on top and the smell is the same. Made with rye flour. Please tell me it should be this way, or I'm doing something wrong and it's time to throw it away.

Oksana, it looks like your starter is too liquid. Add more flour until the pancakes are very thick. Better yet, throw away some of your sourdough so as not to transfer flour.

Thanks for the advice. Indeed, I had it a little thin, today I tried to feed it with one flour (without adding water) and now I look it has become better, it is already bubbling and the smell has become more pleasant. I think that she is still alive.

Thanks for the advice. Indeed, I had it a little thin, today I tried to feed it with one flour (without adding water) and now I look it has become better, it is already bubbling and the smell has become more pleasant. I think that she is still alive.

Once it bubbles, it means alive.

Hello. Again, I will bother with my questions. I just can't make friends with the leaven. It foams in small bubbles, the smell has become pleasantly sour (as my husband says, it smells like beer), but there is no such strong bubbling and it does not grow much in size. Today is the 4th day. By the way, today, during the next feeding, I noticed light specks on the surface (as if dried out or is this the beginning of mold?). As if I'm doing something wrong. Maybe it's time for me to throw it away?

We need her urgently in the warmth, degrees of commercials 30-40 and will immediately grow. It was like that for me too))) Good luck!

Thanks, I will try.

Four days is not an indicator, on average about five days. And it is better to throw out the white bloom. Let's see what happens tomorrow. And look yourself, once you put it in the warmth, or maybe run away!

Thanks for the tips. I put it in a warm place about 1.5 hours ago. Now every now and then I run and look. Has become fluffy, but slightly increased in size. We are waiting for what will happen next.

hello I have such a question. on day 3, the leaven has a pungent sour smell is this normal? and after feeding it literally doubled in 2 hours. starter culture removal temperature 30-32 * s

Hello,

I am writing to you from Bulgaria, I started making sourdough bread from last week. Eternal rye sourdough 100, made according to this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...13102.0 and now I want to make this recipe
300 gr sourdough
150 g rye
250 g wheat premium
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
250 ml water
1 tsp salt
We don't have malt, I don’t put it.
So the question: What leaven should I have? can I make with rye sourdough?

[niklen]

Hello,

I am writing to you from Bulgaria, I started making sourdough bread from last week. Eternal rye sourdough 100, made according to this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...13102.0 and now I want to make this recipe
300 gr sourdough
150 g rye
250 g wheat premium
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
250 ml water
1 tsp salt
We don't have malt, I don’t put it.
So the question: What sourdough should I have? can I make with rye sourdough?

niklen , you can safely take any sourdough. Since you have rye bread, then your sourdough will come in handy.

hello I have such a question. on day 3, the leaven has a pungent sour smell is this normal? and after feeding it literally doubled in 2 hours. starter culture removal temperature 30-32 * s

[niklen]

niklen , you can safely take any sourdough. Since you have rye bread, then your sourdough will come in handy.

Correctly I understood, if rye flour is present in my recipe, then I dare put rye sourdough. And I thought if there is a lot of wheat flour, then it is necessary to feed the sourdough with a mixture of wheat - rye flour.

Everything is correct. But if you make wheat bread with rye sourdough, it will just taste slightly rye. I have wheat sourdough and I bake any kind of bread.

Respect and respect, dear sourdough bakers!
I read the topic of eternal leaven for a long time and persistently, and in the process of reading I grew an eternal rye leaven, on which rye bread turns out to be excellent, but I just can't make friends with wheat
before baking wheat bread, the leaven was fed with wheat flour in a ratio of not less than 1: 1: 1, the bread was baked without and with yeast, it rises, but it tastes sour, which is impossible to eat. And so already several loaves had to be put on croutons. By the way, croutons even from sour bread are tasty, the acid is no longer felt.
I don't give starter culture to starving; if I store it in the refrigerator, then I feed it once every three days, if in the kitchen at room temperature, then twice a day. True, after only rye bread was baked, the leaven lives in the refrigerator.
I want to learn how to bake wheat with eternal leaven, so that it is sour-free. Is it possible?

Girls, can anyone share or sell the starter culture in Moscow? Otherwise I don’t understand what it should look like.
In terms of consistency, everything seems to be working out fine, but the smell is doubtful.It doesn't look like kefir at all. Already worn out with her. She translated so much flour, and the smell is still strange, sour like mash ((

The first time I make a sourdough, it seems like it turned out, and the bread is good, the question of storage torments me, I have 5-6 degrees in the refrigerator everywhere, where should I put it?

... I have 5-6 degrees in my refrigerator, where should I put it?

If you have it on rye flour - feel free to put it in the refrigerator, BUT !!! well-fed, and before baking, get it in advance, feed it, let it rise, and only then go to work. Although ... this is my preference for storage, it is possible that you will be prompted for more options.

well-fed is to feed and immediately in the refrigerator? and if wheat? Thank you!

BUT!!! well fed

Vika, how can you count if today I fed the sourdough, took the right amount for bread, and the rest is already full or feed it again before storing?