"Eternal" leaven

: swoon: Oh, you don't have such a miracle! But if you look from the bottom, there are holes and bubbles - but there is no rise, and there was no rise. About flour: old (frozen) on the magician, new on the garnet. This afternoon I was "feeding" a double dose, I follow (and it already seems to me that the new one is popping and bubbling).

This afternoon I was "feeding" a double dose, I follow (and it already seems to me that the new one is popping and bubbling).

I keep my fingers crossed for you! I hope you will soon have sourdough

And a miracle happened !!!!
She went to bed, about an hour a new one rose, but the frozen one did not - and in the morning the frozen one was overtaking the new one! Now I have 2 leavens. I don't know if it's possible or not, but I'll probably mix them, it's hard to choose which one to leave. I'm going to bake my first sourdough bread. Arka - you are huge
So the question arose - how much leaven should be left in gr.? And how much to feed in front of the refrigerator?

Amidala! Urrraaa!
I store no more than 120 g in the refrigerator, including feeding.
As a rule, I put all the leaven into the dough, and what remains after that on the walls and bottom of the dishes (in which I activated the leaven for the dough) I stir in 40-50 ml of water, add the same amount of flour and put it in the refrigerator until next time.
So, taking the leaven for the dough from the refrigerator, I manage to feed it twice or even three times, and therefore strengthen it: 1 and 2 times - when activated for the test in two stages (so it takes good overclocking), 3 times - directly in front of the refrigerator.
Good luck with your bread !!!
And welcome to the starter club!

Yes, the sourdough is "tortured" - but so clever! Works well. I made baguettes with her, but I didn’t like it - some kind of acid is pronounced, and the bread is a miracle! I don't even know why there is such a difference in tastes. Thank you again, it’s hard to say I would have done it without your guidance and care!

I did everything according to the recipe in the topic.
on peeled rye.
in a glass jar with filtered water.
the jar was on a heating radiator in the kitchen, on top of the open jar I put a pencil across, and covered it all with a slightly wrung out clean pillowcase folded several times from under the pillow. the pencil provided air access to the jar, since it did not allow a damp cloth to completely cover the top of the jar. )
next to the jar lay a thermometer taken from the window. showed 26-30 gr. in moments of control.
- the end of the first day: in some places there are bubbles (you can see it on the walls of the can). the leaven seems to have risen a bit. but not explicitly.
- the end of the second day (after the first feeding). when I came home from work I saw a clear increase in volume by 1.5 times! (marked with an elastic band after the first feeding)
- end of the third day (i.e. after the second feeding). when I came home from work I saw a clear 2-fold increase in volume! I fed it for the third time.
- after 2 hours, the volume began to exceed 2 times the previous one! sourdough that is called "flooded"!
decided not to wait any longer and urgently kneaded his first sourdough bread, which was successfully baked after 6 hours.
Respect to the author of the recipe! to all participants of the discussion - too!

Good day. I'm a new person here. But already worried about the starter theme.
Please tell me, but I can take as a basis recipes for yeast breads in a bread maker, but with the replacement of yeast for sourdough. If so, what proportions? And do the proportions of different types of starter cultures differ?

And another such moment. I bake bread almost every day. It makes no sense for me to keep the leaven in the refrigerator. How then to take care of her?

[not sour bread]

Please tell me, but I can take as a basis recipes for yeast breads in a bread maker, but with the replacement of yeast for sourdough. If so, what proportions?

While I was studying here, I realized something for myself - well, the Internet helped. For not sour bread
For rye bread, you need the same amount of sourdough as flour.(for 400 gr. rye flour 400 gr. sourdough)
For rye-wheat bread - (for 400 g of rye flour, 400 g of sourdough, 200 g of wheat flour)
For wheat bread (for 500 g of wheat flour - 150 g of sourdough). But of course this is not an axiom.

Amidala, how about water? You can write an example of a recipe with a change to leaven. I'm shoveling through the forum, but the balls for the videos are already entering. And even with mathematics trouble

I don't remember exactly which topic, but on this site they wrote about the flour-water ratio (try to find it through the search). approximately P.M.-500 gr. - water 280-330, R.M. 500 gr. - water 380-430. The entire weight of the leaven contains half of the water. Well, for example: in the recipe - 500 gr. p.m. - 330 ml. water. We take starter cultures 150g. (75 + 75), we take away flour 500-75, and water 330-75, in the end 425 gr. flour, 150 gr. leaven, 255 water. But everything is relative, depends on the moisture content of the flour. And you need to watch the kolobok. And again, this is just my experience. You need to try (three loaves were not edible for me) Proofing time also needs to be increased.

The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=1625.0
UNDERSTANDING BREAD IN HOMEMADE BREAD https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=7271.0
This weekend I will try to make sourdough baking

Amidala, and how to adjust the proofing time. How to find out how much you need?

[bread on the back]

see ready-made recipes bread on the back
Arka even has a master class. Everything is very affordable

Thanks for the good advice. I started making eternal leaven yesterday. Today I feed 100 grams of water and 100 flour. On the 3rd day, do you need 200 flour and water each, or can you split it in half? For eternal leaven and bread. And why in half. Not 2 tablespoons?
In the future, to maintain, how much should you take from the total mass? 10 g? 50 or 40 grams? 2 tablespoons or half? And how many grams are 2 tablespoons? Soon I'll have a knead in my head

And you can store the leaven on the balcony. Or is it necessary to buy a special refrigerator ??

By the way, I have a recipe for eternal leaven, but with other ingredients. If interested, I'll post it. I would like to know whether she is better or worse.

Amidala! Urrraaa!
I store no more than 120 g in the refrigerator, including feeding.
As a rule, I put all the leaven into the dough, and what remains after that on the walls and bottom of the dishes (in which I activated the leaven for the dough) I stir in 40-50 ml of water, add the same amount of flour and put it in the refrigerator until next time.
So, taking the leaven for the dough from the refrigerator, I manage to feed it twice or even three times, and therefore strengthen it: 1 and 2 times - when activated for the test in two stages (so it takes good overclocking), 3 times - directly in front of the refrigerator.
Good luck with your bread !!!
And welcome to the starter club!

So sansei wrote to me

So on the third day you need to put 200 g and ml or 100? Or is it already divided in half?

If we put soda in the dough instead of water, soda can be used. Or is it a mess of soda?

Danisha, follow the recipe:
1st day: batch 100X100
2nd day: feed 100x100
3rd day: feed 100x100

if after the last feeding there is no result (the leaven will not grow and bubble), then we take a couple of tablespoons from this and again on the way, starting from the 2nd day.

sourdough loves fermented milk products, but was not noticed in love of soda

Danisha, follow the recipe:
1st day: batch 100X100
2nd day: feed 100x100
3rd day: feed 100x100

if after the last feeding there is no result (the leaven will not grow and bubble), then we take a couple of tablespoons from this and again on the way, starting from the 2nd day

and if there is a result ??

sourdough loves fermented milk products, but was not noticed in love of soda

I mean, if the leaven is not ripe, then pour in soda instead of dry or fresh yeast to help.

Once the leaven is ready, it can be put into bread.
I wrote about soda above

And if the leaven is 5 days ... it turns out unripe and it is unlikely to raise the bread. You can increase the amount for kneading into the dough. Or will the taste change dramatically? I just want to bake on the 4th or 5th day. I would like to completely exclude the chemical. yeast. And I bake every day.

And then I asked another question about the balcony. I have 4 degrees in a regular refrigerator.If I take it out on the balcony, is it okay? How many degrees is acceptable for yeast?

And if the leaven is 5 days ... it turns out unripe and it is unlikely to raise the bread. You can increase the amount for kneading into the dough. Or will the taste change dramatically? I just want to bake on the 4th or 5th day. I would like to completely exclude the chemical. yeast. And I bake every day.

will pick up, don't worry. if the leaven raises itself, then it will cope with the dough.
when on the 3rd day she grows up, she will need to be fed immediately after a slight fall, there will be no need to wait a day.
keep the proportion - the weight of the sourdough is not more than the weight of the flour added according to the recipe

I have 4 degrees in a regular refrigerator. If I take it out on the balcony, is it okay? How many degrees is acceptable for yeast?

if you bake every day, it makes no sense to keep the leaven in the cold, you can just on the windowsill in the kitchen. Well, or to slow down the processes, it is possible on the balcony, if there are 11-13 degrees.

to keep the starter in good shape, feed it as soon as growth ends and the reverse process begins - settling

will lift, don't worry. if the leaven raises itself, then it will cope with the dough.
when on the 3rd day she grows up, she will need to be fed immediately after a slight fall, there will be no need to wait a day.
keep the proportion - the weight of the sourdough is not more than the weight of the flour added according to the recipe

How do I know how much leaven I have? And how much flour to report.
After kneading the dough, how long to wait with immature sourdough?

How do I know how much leaven I have? And how much flour to report.

how much leaven - the scales will tell you. if not so far, order in the online store, or go choose "by hand"
you can take any recipe and count it down.
e.g. recipe 600 g flour
100% sourdough itself contains half of the flour in its weight, which means that the maximum that should not be exceeded is 1/3 flour in sourdough to the total weight of flour in the recipe (600 g: 3 = 200 g)
t. about. We will have 200 g of flour in sourdough, and we also need to add 400 g of flour to bring the amount to the prescription
the proportion is observed: the weight of the sourdough (400 g) is equal to the weight of the added flour (400 g) or the weight of the flour in the sourdough is equal to 1/3 of the weight of the flour according to the recipe

remember that this maximum should not be exceeded, less leaven - you can
do not forget to reduce the same amount of water in the recipe for 200 g, which are in the leaven.

After kneading the dough, how long to wait with immature sourdough?

until the dough grows 2-2.5 times

And the maximum amount of sourdoughs you can put in the dough? Can I substitute sourdough for the yeast recipe?

And another question. If the topic was covered and a lot of people asked about it, can it be easier to write in a personal message? True, you need to know who)))))

I put the lured and soaked sourdough in the ratio to flour in the recipe 1: 2 (by weight). That is, for an average loaf of 250 g of leaven + 500 g of flour. It turns out fine. By the way, I got the eternal one in 3 days. In the evening of the third day I have already baked wheat-rye-buckwheat bread. It turned out to be a supermegawow.

The leaven came out nice. On rye flour.
And the first bread (from first grade flour) baked with it turned out to have a very strong rye taste. The reason is one of the fact that I tried to use the starter as much as possible, left 150 gr. for breeding, and the rest (450) went into the dough.
Now, I decided to switch the starter culture to wheat flour.
Read by this forum :-) I thought there would be some problems. Painfully my first experience with the establishment of rye sourdough was successful. Morally prepared for difficulties.
But no! Literally 4 hours after the first feeding with wheat flour of the 1st grade, the sourdough "jumped out" 2 times!
I put it in the refrigerator faster, since I was going to bake it only the next day.
The next day I took her out and fed her before baking.
After 3 hours, she grew 3 times! I was just scared of such agility. :-)
I got sourdoughs for one and a half servings of pastries.
The remaining 150 gr. went back to the refrigerator (10 gr. on the shelf, next to it is a thermometer).
The rest went to the dough.
Kneaded, divided into 2 parts (2/3 and 1/3) - in one part I mixed fried seeds, and in the other - a very burning homemade adjika (a little).
Most of it stands in the oven on the "Baking" mode for an hour and ten minutes.
A small part in the oven - 190 grams is also ten hours.
Watching ..
I'll report on the taste. :-)

Mmm! The bread came out wonderful! What's with seeds, what's with adjika! And it was baked perfectly.


They gave almost no taste to the seeds, but adjika made the bread more interesting.
And most importantly, the bread has a real bread taste and density.
I did not really like the first bread baked in the oven according to her recipes on high-grade flour, and even on dry yeast, for their excessive airiness and a certain tastelessness.
And here there is everything: the taste and elasticity of the crumb and the crispness of the crust.
I’m right now and don’t know what to do with the dry yeast that I have left in stock. I am not friends with them now. Yes, and pressed are not particularly needed.

Kaskader wow for 3rd day ?? and without yeast? Can you give a link to the recipe you got? I would be very grateful.

Ladies, take me into your ranks of "eternal" fermentors. I have known ferments quite recently, I put my first ferment just 4 days ago. This is French thick, I really liked the reviews about it. And then I stumbled upon this leaven and decided to put it in at the same time, since there is no need to put in a lot of effort for this. So what I want to say - this is not a leaven, it is some kind of reagent !!! On the third day I fed her, divided it in half, put one part in bread, the other in the refrigerator. Unfortunately, my bread didn't work out, AT ALL. He did not rise, and remained a flat cake. Then that very evening I took back the leftover sourdough from the refrigerator, fed it and left it overnight at room temperature. At night, 6 hours later, I woke up out of need (), decided to see how my leavens were doing there. So what was my surprise when I saw that my eternal leaven had grown more than 2 times and was about to fall off, I was scared that it would not overoxidize, and put it back in the refrigerator (I was not going to bake the next day). She stood in my refrigerator during the day, and in the evening I took it out and fed it again 1: 1: 1, because tomorrow I decided to experiment and make three different breads at once from 3 different leavens (!!!) to compare them So this the reagent (you can't name it in another way), which only from the refrigerator (I honestly did not warm her up, but immediately fed her) doubled in 3.5 hours, overtook my French women (thick and liquid (well, sort of)), which all the time kept at room temperature, and now I do not know what to do with it ... I was going to the oven only tomorrow. In general, I was impressed by this leaven, even very much. Let's see it in action tomorrow

Day 3
As a rule, now there are no questions: there are not just bubbles on the surface of the leaven: it grows greatly in size and all consists of such a foam cap. We feed her one last time. And again with warmth. Here is a very important point: the leaven is already strong enough and we need to catch the moment when it will be at its "peak of shape": that is, it should be satisfied. At this moment, she is as strong as possible. We divide it into poplam.

The first half is our eternal leaven. We put it in a jar with a plastic lid with holes in it (to breathe) and put it in the refrigerator until next time.

And let's put the other half into action ...
Question! How much to feed the first half? And why do we take half?

That is, did I understand correctly if I want to cook total bread? weight -1000g.
total sourdough weight (one third) - 333g (150 water, and 183 flour, respectively)
I add flour 445g. and water 222g
together -667g + 333g = 1000g
This leaven is 4 days old.

Can you please tell me what to do with the leftover sourdough after kneading the dough? When to put in the refrigerator? Today I put the bread on the eternal leaven. Yesterday I took it out of the refrigerator (my first bread didn’t work with this sourdough, this is the second part that had to be stored), fed it 1: 1: 1 and left it overnight for 12 hours. This morning I woke up - the leaven had already fallen off. I fed her again 1: 1: 1. After 3.5 hours, it increased more than 3 times.I read on the forum that the dough must be kneaded when the sourdough grows 2 times, and you need to feed the sourdough again only after it has grown to the maximum and begins to fall off ...So I kneaded the dough, but what to do with the leaven? It seems to be too early to feed her ... Should she immediately put it in the refrigerator or wait for the maximum rise, feed it and only then clean it up? Something this moment is not clear to me at all

.. So I kneaded the dough, but what to do with the leaven? It seems to be too early to feed her ... Should she immediately put it in the refrigerator or wait for the maximum rise, feed it and only then clean it up? Something this moment is not clear to me at all

It's not too early to feed. Always put fed leaven in the refrigerator

That is, did I understand correctly if I want to cook total bread? weight -1000g.
total sourdough weight (one third) - 333g (150 water, and 183 flour, respectively)
I add flour 445g. and water 222g
together -667g + 333g = 1000g
This leaven is 4 days old.

Looks pretty normal. Have you made sourdough on wheat flour? Some proportions of wheat

Question! How much to feed the first half? And why do we take half?

We always feed the same: the weight of the feed is by no means less than the weight of the starter culture itself, but preferably twice as much!
And half (conditionally) take because by the time we are ready we have sooooo much leaven

tell me how often you need to soften the leaven (rye)

tell me how often you need to soften the leaven (rye)

Only when needed. For example, she was not fed for a long time and she was peroxidized, or the leaven began to "pass" in terms of lifting properties. Then we take a small proportion of the leaven and feed in a large proportion. In fact, this is almost growing again, only with a predictable result, since we have a starter in the form of a small amount of sourdough.

Danisha, I cooked my first bread without a recipe. I took 3 tbsp. tablespoons of buckwheat flour, about 1 glass of rye, the rest is premium wheat (the total weight of all flour is 500 g), some bran, salt, sugar. Then I also baked pure wheat whole grain and pure rye, but that first bread was the tastiest.

I feed the leftovers (about 1 cm at the bottom of a liter jar) and immediately into the refrigerator. It bubbles up there a little. Then, when I need to take it out, I feed it so that it was 250 g + for divorce and wait for it to rise.

Thank you very much to everyone who helped me. Who answered mine, maybe stupid questions Ark and Amidala thanks for your patience
On the 4th day of my birth, my eternal leaven on rye flour pleased me. Baked bread with sourdough flour of 1st grade. Such was the delight. I was jumping for joy. Because the first experiences were sad.

Congratulations! What a wonderful bread!

Please tell me, is it possible to make sourdough on rice or buckwheat flour?

girls, don't laugh and don't kill! I read, I read .... I grew kefir and French .... but what is the difference between the eternal and French? flour and water ....

Please answer the previous question!))) I don’t understand whether it’s worth starting an eternal one or not ...

All starter cultures have the same principle of operation. It makes no sense to start even if the previous one works fine.

.... grew kefir and French .... but what is the difference between the eternal and French? flour and water ....

If French wheat, and eternal rye - then it still makes sense to keep two. It doesn't make much sense, though.
In the presence of wheat sourdough, I personally see no reason to keep rye as well. After feeding part of it with wheat rye flour, you can bake rye (wheat-rye, rye-wheat) bread of sufficiently high quality.
It is difficult to overfeed this rye sourdough with wheat flour in order to bake high-quality wheat bread, more precisely - it takes a long time. At least the same three days that you can grow French sourdough.
Which of the leavens to keep for you, I believe, you can determine only yourself and only by experience.

only themselves and only by experience.

Thank you!

Thank you so much for the "eternal" leaven Thanks to all of you, I nevertheless ventured to start a sourdough baking, which I am just glad to see! At first, of course, it was scary, but somehow everything worked out imperceptibly, and now I am baking such bread:


Some "nuances" in the crumb are due, as always, to "the best intentions". On the vast expanses of the site I saw a proofing in baskets, and it seemed like I sprinkled it with flour normally, but I still barely took out the bread, just shamelessly disturbing it before baking.And even in spite of this, I got such pride! The daughter said that probably the loaf would be enough for three days, and already a third was eaten, and this is so far without the help of dad

Congratulations. It's good when the first experience is positive. It stimulated me. I started with two leavens. With eternal and raisin. So the eternal seemed to me better. Less acidic. Maybe, of course, the raisins needed to grow up properly)

Thank you ! Of course, failure dampens enthusiasm, but the struggle against difficulties in this case is justified by the entire 1000%! I also had a period of doubts, at first there was a pungent vinegar smell in the jar, but I transferred the finished sourdough to another jar, fed it and now only the pleasant smell of soaked apples. I’m still thinking about the “Frenchwoman”, otherwise the white bread with the “eternal” is not so white. So good luck to you!

And what, the Frenchwoman lifts better? How much is it different?