"Eternal" leaven

If you bake bread from wheat flour, try adding 200 - 300 grams of sourdough, respectively, subtracting flour and water from your recipe from the bread machine (200 g of sourdough is 100 grams of flour and 100 grams of water)

Vtaminka, add another 200-300 gr. sourdough ...? Is it to rise stronger?

You, too, do not be offended, but the impression is that you are trying to bake bread, not particularly familiar with the sourdough business. There are many topics at the Forum, after reading which and using the knowledge gained in practice, you will become the Master of sourdough bread. I was like that too, and it took a lot of time for what I read to fit into a certain scheme.

Vitaminka, in order to "get acquainted", takes about a week or two to read everything, and half of all one will not fit into the system or will be lost. Better to practice bit by bit and erase all questions and nuances along the way.

On the first page of this topic is a recipe for how to make it.

It was from the first page that I started in good faith!

And in what proportion to feed her, if every 3 days?
You all, I suppose, the temperature in the thoroughbred refrigerators is set, but I have a mongrel, and there, I suspect, is much colder than 10-12

It is necessary to feed, depending on the original product, it is better 1/2/2 to eat enough. : girl_red: If you have such a temperature in your refrigerator, it would be better to put it on the top shelf. I have a pace too. about 8-10 *.

[volshebnik]

volshebnik the roof is flat, as far as I'm not mistaken it happens because of the large amount of liquid. : girl_red: Do you keep track of what kind of kolobok you get? The previous time, your roof was blown away not because of a lack of liquid, but because there is not enough time for proofing. And when the baking process began, then it exploded, something that did not have time to come up. I also have this when it is not worth it. And about its bitterness initially in the leaven should not be. : (When I taste my sourdough, it resembles sour dough and that's it.

[volshebnik]

volshebnik the roof is flat, as far as I'm not mistaken it happens because of the large amount of liquid. : girl_red: Do you keep track of what kind of kolobok you get? The previous time, your roof was blown away not because of a lack of liquid, but because there is not enough time for proofing.

mmm .... New-Vitaminka wrote last time that "Insufficient amount of water does not allow the bread to rise, tears off the roof!"
I added fluids - the roof was not blown off. It turns out - did you add a lot, or do you need to stand longer?

It turns out - did you add a lot, or do you need to stand longer?

Last time it did not fit, but this time there is a lot of water. And what happened to the kolobok then ???

Do you keep track of what kind of kolobok you get?

Tanya, no, I don’t follow: you cannot look in during baking - a sharp influx of cold air. While everything is in the automatic mode of the French I try. If it does not work out with it, then I will switch to separate kneading of dough and baking. Now we need to find out - is it water or proofing.

Last time it did not fit, but this time there is a lot of water. And what happened to the kolobok then ???

Well, how didn’t fit !? The regime is the same. I still have a suspicion of excess water, huh?

In what sense - "what happened to the kolobok then ???"

Tanya, no, I don’t follow: you cannot look in during baking - a sharp influx of cold air. While everything is in the automatic mode of the French try. If it does not work out with it, then I will switch to separate kneading of dough and baking. Now we need to find out - is it water or proofing.

At the stage of kneading the dough, you can also look to make sure that the dough is not liquid and not thick.You can still fix everything by adding water or flour. After all, flour is very different in moisture. And then, as you were convinced that everything is OK, close the lid and wait for a delicious and fluffy bread.

At the stage of kneading the dough, you can also look to make sure that the dough is not liquid and not thick. You can still fix everything by adding water or flour. After all, flour is very different in moisture. And then, as you were convinced that everything is OK, close the lid and wait for a delicious and fluffy bread.

So I looked. The first time was an elastic dough.
The second time is thinner. But the second time the bread is "rubbery" - just right. I'm afraid that if you reduce the water - it will not be like that. But let's try

[The very first, basic starter culture]

At least 3 days, as far as I understand, this is if you make the first "eternal leaven" and it will not ripen before 3 days. And if you take the leaven out of the refrigerator, it is already there and it does not need 3 days. As I understand it, an indicator of its maturation and strength is an increase in volume by at least 2 times. Or do you know other "litmus tests"?

volshebnik, that's how I make the FIRST "ETERNAL SQUARE", or rather I'm trying.
I took a clean jar and a lid with holes 100 gr. rye flour + 100 grams of warm water, left for 24 hours, during this time bubbles appeared, after 24 hours I fed for the first time and after that it doubled with me. And after the second feeding, she went into hibernation for a week and showed no signs of life, but I fed her regularly, once a day.
After a week of calm, she began to stir and even increased slightly in volume (slightly, not twice), I continue to feed, I wait for activity, but there is none. While stirring, I drew attention to the good honeycomb, I thought maybe I was ready, then I tried to bake bread, it turned out to be a brick, unbaked and sour.
I still feed. Although, I think she should go to the trash.

The very first, basic starter culture I still can't grow.

You write correctly, if we take the ready-made sourdough out of the refrigerator, then we warm it up, feed it, wait for the increase and use it.
But I haven't gotten to this stage yet.

... and after that it doubled with me.

Well, here it was necessary to invite her to the stove

But what happens to her next, what she doesn't want anymore, I won't say, Lizzi, I don't know. Let the professionals have their say

My leaven is kind of strange: it costs 11 days, from about the 3rd day after each feeding it steadily rises 2-3 times. I go to work in the morning - I feed, in the evening I come - I feed. Sometimes it has time to fall, but it is clear that it was rising. Doesn't hibernate
Moreover, for the sake of the experiment, I put 2 at once - rye and wheat whole grain (which I have already overfed into wheat premium). They behave the same, wheat is a little weaker, but it turns out thinner.
There was one day when the wheat one refused to rise, so instead of water I once poured sour milk on it. Everything worked out
I haven't baked it yet, but I just put white bread in a bread maker on one sourdough, without yeast. Worried

I haven't baked it yet, but I just put white bread in a bread maker on one sourdough, without yeast. Worried

Sibelis, why worry Better then write a recipe and a photo here to admire

At least 3 days, as far as I understand, this is if you make the first "eternal leaven" and it will not ripen before 3 days.

volshebnik, you want to say that my first (basic) "eternal leaven" was ready in a little over a day?
Although they write that it should ripen and it takes at least three days.

By the way, you also write about it
"At least 3 days, as I understand it, this is if you make the first" eternal leaven "and it will not ripen before 3 days."

But I never received an answer to my question, is it possible to grow a full-fledged starter culture at room temperature. Maybe that's why she went into hibernation with me ...

But I never received an answer to my question, is it possible to grow a full-fledged starter culture at room temperature.Maybe that's why she went into hibernation with me ...

It grows in my room.

Now I checked it, a distinct acetone smell. Threw away ...

Sibelis, why worry Better then write a recipe and a photo here to admire

I don't have a camera, but I took the recipe from the forum: Fluffy bread with yeast-free sourdough from ilonnna.
True, there is too much flour there, in my opinion, 700 per 365 water, I reduced it to normal. I put my program at random, with 2 maximum proofs. Standing, rising in the stove, handsome.
I am an absolute beginner in baking, and I bake with sourdough for the first time.

It grows in my room.

Sibelis, you must be warm?
Our heating switches off completely at night, closed it, wrapped it up, but in the morning the bank was cool to the touch.
Thanks everyone for the advice.
And good luck.

Now I checked it, a distinct acetone smell. Threw away ...

Everything, probably, affects her - air, water, flour, and ... mood
Lizzi Try it again, I think it will definitely work!

Sibelis, you must be warm?
Our heating switches off completely at night, closed it, wrapped it up, but in the morning the bank was cool to the touch.
Thanks everyone for the advice.
And good luck.

It's true, I have a warm, sunny side. But at first I tried it on the battery, she didn't like it, but in a secluded corner, in a large plastic container, in a jar wrapped in a thick napkin (or rather, an old duvet cover), just right

I wrote it incomprehensibly. In general, a container (like a box for toys made of ikea), in it a duvet cover, in it a jar without a lid, covered with the same duvet cover. The container is also without a lid.

volshebnik, you want to say that my first (basic) "eternal leaven" was ready in a little over a day?
Although they write that it should ripen and it takes at least three days.

By the way, you write about it too
"At least 3 days, as I understand it, this is if you make the first" eternal leaven "and it will not ripen before 3 days."

But I never received an answer to my question, is it possible to grow a full-fledged starter culture at room temperature. Maybe that's why she went into hibernation with me ...

Yes, you are right - this is me from memory: they wrote here that it is rarely possible to grow in three days. But logically, if it has doubled, then there is already strength.
I grew my sourdough exactly at room temperature 19 - 21 C from peeled rye flour without GMO (packaged by order of TOV "Business School" Ukraine, Kharkov)

Everything, probably, affects her - air, water, flour, and ... mood
Lizzi Try it again, I think it will definitely work!

I will definitely try again, I'm a stubborn girl.
But a little later, now there is just no mood after another failure.
I thought that this leaven would just work out, I was shaking over it, the smell was more pleasant than the previous ones, it smelled like kvass ...

It's true, I have a warm, sunny side. But at first I tried it on the battery, she didn't like it, but in a secluded corner, in a large plastic container, in a jar wrapped in a thick napkin (or rather, an old duvet cover), just right

I wrote it incomprehensibly. In general, a container (like a box for toys made of ikea), in it a duvet cover, in it a jar without a lid, covered with the same duvet cover. The container is also without a lid.

Next time, I will also try not to put it to the battery. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, you are right - this is me from memory: they wrote here that it is rarely possible to grow in three days. But logically, if it has doubled, then there is already strength.
I grew my sourdough exactly at room temperature 19 - 21 C from peeled rye flour without GMO (packaged by order of TOV "Business School" Ukraine, Kharkov)

I have good flour, also without additives and GMOs, Organic Wholegrain Rye flour, locally produced.
The water is raw, heated, but not boiled (this is from the monastery advice that it is better to use raw water, since it is alive).
Glass jar with a screw cap.

Glass jar with a screw cap.

With the lid, even with holes, it did not work for me - somehow I did not breathe, but under a thick cloth it is normal - it does not get ventilated, and breathes.
I take water from the tap (after the filter), I don't heat it at all.

With the lid, even with holes, it did not work for me - somehow I did not breathe, but under a thick cloth it is normal - it does not get ventilated, and breathes.
I take water from the tap (after the filter), I don't heat it at all.

I haven't tried it under the cloth, it seemed safer under the lid.
At first I dug small holes, but then I realized that there was not enough air for the leaven and that the smell was unpleasant.
For the next one, I dug bigger holes, it even got covered with a crust on top and the smell was already completely different, kvass, mash or something freshly sour ... the smell often changed.
I warm the water, it seems to be lukewarm.

Before I got involved in this adventure with leaven, I read and read here, my head was spinning from the excess of information.
Then I decided to adjust the whole scheme for myself, but it dies - well, not a cow ...
Therefore, I do not heat the water, I do not twist holes. For half a day and so has time to escape, where else, darling, to warm her
Under the fabric, if in several layers, neither crust nor mold appears.
By the way, the smell did not change, I myself am surprised how it began to smell like dough, and continues, it tastes sour.
Still, it seems to me that the microflora in the apartment is different for everyone, so it grows so differently.
Now I bake the FIRST bread on it. Climbs out of the bucket.

Before I got involved in this adventure with leaven, I read and read here, my head was spinning from the excess of information.
Then I decided to adjust the whole scheme for myself, and if it dies - well, not a cow ...
Therefore, I do not heat the water, I do not twist holes. For half a day and so has time to escape, where else, darling, to warm her
Under the fabric, if in several layers, neither crust nor mold appears.
By the way, the smell did not change, I myself am surprised how it began to smell like dough, and continues, it tastes sour.
Still, it seems to me that the microflora in the apartment is different for everyone, so it grows so differently.
Now I bake the FIRST bread on it. Climbs out of the bucket.

I, too, read a lot about leaven before starting this business. And not only this forum, although there is certainly the most information here.
I found that the advice is sometimes contradictory, some cover the leaven with a cloth, others twist the holes, and some generally close it tightly and everything works out. Therefore, I began to experiment.
All the starter cultures that I tried to grow (raisins on white flour, raisins on rye and eternal) behaved almost the same, the first day there were bubbles, then the first feeding, after a few hours they greatly increased in growth and that's it !!!! After that, no movement.
So I think what my mistake is. Perhaps in the warmth they grew too fast, and then there was no strength left for anything.
But I was afraid to leave it only at room temperature, it is cool here, so during the day I tried to keep it on the battery (on a cloth folded in several layers), and at night, since we turn off the heating at night, I just wrapped it up warmly.
And your dough climbs out of the bucket ??? And this is only leavened, without yeast?
Then please show me a photograph of the bread. I think it will be beautiful.

AAAAA! I! EXPECTED! YOURS! FIRST! BREAD! FOR SQUARE! And it worked!
Delicious and seemingly nothing, however, the top still burst (insufficient proofing?). But I'm not nitpicking, for me it's generally a miracle!
Yes, one leaven, not a gram of yeast. I put wheat dough 50/150/150 for 4 hours on the battery. Then premium flour per 1 kg, sugar, butter, salt, water 190 ... like, nothing more. Stood 1.20 + 2 hours, baked for an hour. It is possible for him to stand more before baking, but I was afraid, and so it increased 2 times.

Lizzi, from me, of course, the advisor is still, I bake it myself for the first time, but I really want you to succeed!

AAAAA! I! EXPECTED! YOURS! FIRST! BREAD! FOR SQUARE! And it worked!
Delicious and seemingly nothing, however, the top still burst (insufficient proofing?).But I'm not nitpicking, for me it's generally a miracle!
Yes, one leaven, not a gram of yeast. I put wheat dough 50/150/150 for 4 hours on the battery. Then premium flour per 1 kg, sugar, butter, salt, water 190 ... like, nothing more. Stood 1.20 + 2 hours, baked for an hour. It is possible for him to stand more before baking, but I was afraid, and so it increased 2 times.

Lizzi, from me, of course, the advisor is still, I bake it myself for the first time, but I really want you to succeed!

Photo of the FIRST bread in the studio !!! Congratulations!!!
And thanks for the wishes!

I have a bread maker, but I don't have a camera

Next time, I will also try not to put it to the battery. Thanks for the advice.
The water is raw, heated, but not boiled (this is from the monastic advice that it is better to use raw water, since it is alive).
Glass jar with a screw cap.

Yes, indeed, unboiled water, if it is filtered, is higher in performance than boiled water, more "lively". Its oxidation-reduction potential (ORP) is almost 2 times higher than that of boiled one. But she is still not alive, because her ORP is positive (positive), and the higher it is, the worse for the body.

Tap water: ORP = +160
Boiled water quickly cooled: ORP = +218
Boiled water, after three hours: ORP = +465

To make the water alive, it must be passed through an electroactivator and aquadisk.
I use filtered silicon water for bread and tea.

[Sibelis]

Sibelis Well, finally you can be congratulated! : bravo: Well done!volshebnik after the leaven has doubled on the second day, this does not mean that it is ready to pick up our bread. It’s there all sorts of reactions are taking place and it is seething, and the bacteria you need are not yet ready.

I use only bottled artesian water for starter culture. I don’t know how in your cities, but our tap water is very bad, dirty, plus reagents for its disinfection ... no sourdough will survive on such.
Grown at room temperature 23-24C, in a loosely closed jar. The increase on the second day of growing is not a criterion for readiness - it is still only a stage of putrefactive fermentation, it must stop. And only a few days later, when the "good bacteria" multiply, and it is they who will raise the leaven - it is ready (I started it only on the 5th day). Now I'm feeding millet. flour 2 times a day 1: 4: 4, lives at room. temperature. It rises after each feeding every 5 times.


It smells very nice, creamy, but still gives a little sourness in the bread. Therefore, after the vacation (it's a pity of course, but her days are already numbered ...), I'll try to bring the French one.

Good morning everybody !

Another baking sample

The recipe is the same, only reduced the water by 50 grams. and, unknowingly, increased the proofing time of the dough. Usually the oven would knead the dough after 40 minutes. And then 2 hours have passed, and she is "silent" .... although it is written in the instructions that the time for each operation is conditional and depends on the environment. I turned off the stove, checked to see if the agitator was spinning freely and started the French mode again from the beginning. Instead of 5 hours (according to the "French bread" mode), the mixture of ingredients, and then the kneaded dough, was left to stand for 7 hours.

Here's what happened:







The bread rose. But the pores have become smaller. The "rubberiness" has become less (this is worse, as for me) and the crumb is not something that would stick together (it comes back when squeezed), but the feeling in the mouth, that the bread is not baked.

It turns out that the previous attempt was tastier and more baked, only with a "helipad" instead of a semicircular top, as now ...

Now I will try the same recipe, but stand not for 7 hours, but for 5 (and compare the results).

Kind people! Please help me, I can't do anything. I already wrote here before. At first, for several months I could not grow the leaven; I do not have such a warm place in my apartment for its ripening. As a result, I grew a whole grain crop on pineapple juice, and was very happy. But it seemed too early to rejoice.I decided to store it at room temperature, as I read so much that bacteria are dying in the refrigerator. She fed him 3 times a day. And so my torment began with baking bread. I tried different methods and recipes, but the bread turns out to be low and very sour .... Yesterday she was 3 weeks old and I decided to try the method of making a dough and dough for young sourdough. That is, I fed the leaven for the dough in 3 stages, and then added flour for the dough in 3 stages. It turned out after about every hour it grew no more than 1.5 times, fell off and I immediately again added flour and water. As a result, the dough still turned out sour, although the dough did not stand for long (4 hours) and the proofing too (2 hours - the first time after an hour it grew - added flour, then after half an hour - added it again). In the end, I threw out the dough and did not bake and left a piece for the sourdough (there was no oil and salt). I fed this piece and went to bed. And in the morning I look, there are no signs of life ............. I just really need this bread. My child is 2 years old and has digestive problems. He doesn’t digest anything, he eats only bread and porridge. So I'm trying for her. Does not sleep at night, all the time suffers from the stomach. Here I am, an exhausted, maddened mother. Maybe someone will sell me a piece of their magic ripe starter. I know that this bread will help my baby. But apparently I'm so tightly bound up with this that nothing comes of it 

Kind people! Please help me, I can't do anything.
I already wrote here before. At first I couldn't grow the leaven for several months,
I don't have such a warm place in my apartment for her to mature. As a result, I grew a whole grain
on pineapple juice, very happy. But it seemed too early to rejoice. I decided to keep it
at room temperature, as I read so much that bacteria are dying in the refrigerator. She fed him 3 times a day.
And so my torment began with baking bread. I tried different methods and recipes, but the bread is low and very sour ...
Yesterday she was 3 weeks old and I decided to try the method of creating a dough and dough for young sourdough.
That is, I fed the leaven for the dough in 3 stages, and then added flour for the dough in 3 stages.
It turned out after about every hour it grew no more than 1.5 times, and I fell off immediately
again added flour and water. As a result, the dough still turned out sour, although the dough did not last long (4 hours) and
proofing too (2 hours - the first time in an hour grew - added flour, then after half an hour - added again).
In the end, I threw out the dough and did not bake and left a piece for the sourdough (there was no oil and salt).
I fed this piece and went to bed. And in the morning I look - there are no signs of life ............. Sad
I just really need this bread. My child is 2 years old and has digestive problems.
He doesn’t digest anything, he eats only bread and porridge. So I'm trying for her. He does not sleep at night, all the time he suffers from the stomach.
Here I am, an exhausted, maddened mother Smiling. Maybe someone will sell me a piece of their magic ripe starter.
I know that this bread will help my baby. But apparently I'm so stuck on this that I can't do anything.

[tanycs]

tanycs
French would probably suit you well. Can anyone share, ask in the profile topic.
I have also tried different 2- and 3-step methods of sourdough freshening so that the bread does not sour. The dough, however, was always kneaded in one step. I tried to ferment for a short time and at a higher temperature (30C). It helps, but not radically. It raises well, but you can still feel a little sourness in the bread. The reason lies in the very microbiological composition of the starter culture and the conditions for its cultivation. I raised mine at 23C.
I suspect that in the starter culture, originally grown at a higher temperature, wild yeast is diluted more than lactic acid bacteria. Therefore, it turns out to be less acidic.

And I grew mine at room temperature. And what is the least acidic French sourdough?
And there is also hop and raisin. Do they sour the dough too?

It seems to be French and raisins are the least sour. I am still planning to grow a French one.

I tried to make various leavens, and used eternal gifts, but sometimes too confusing recipes for making leavens (not always leading to a result), then the dough rises too long ... In general, for a while I abandoned this noble cause. But this winter I made one more attempt, And the result exceeded all my expectations !! I hasten to share the recipe for kefir sourdough ..

Leaven:
Take 0.5 liters of kefir (not cold), a tablespoon of sugar and knead the dough, not thick. Place in a warm place, the dough should rise by half.


Dough:
Dilute the finished starter culture with warm water,


stir well, add a tablespoon of sugar and flour enough to make a not very thick dough (like a biscuit),

[img]
[img]
put some of the dough into a half-liter jar, filling it halfway,

Cover the jar and put in a warm place. In the remaining dough, add a teaspoon of salt, a tablespoon of vegetable oil (you can sesame seeds 1 table. L.), Mix thoroughly and pour into a baking dish, filling it halfway.
[img]
Put in a warm place. When the dough doubles in size




put a jar of sourdough in the refrigerator (cover with a lid), and bake the dough for 40-50 minutes.



[img]
Next time, take the starter culture out of the refrigerator, dilute it with 0.5 l of warm water (or whey) and then follow the same scheme. The leaven is getting stronger every time, it is not inferior in strength to yeast. The time for raising the dough in half is 3-4 hours. The bread is very tasty, firm, not sour at all. I add second grade flour, or various vegetable fibers. I usually add it to the part that is for baking (after I separated the leaven), but I think that the leaven will not suffer from the additives.

Dear members of the forum, please share the proving time when baking rye-wheat bread
on sourdough, naturally, and of course without yeast.

[K_igor]

Dear members of the forum, please share the proofing time when baking rye-wheat bread
on sourdough, naturally, and of course without yeast.

K_igor I think that everything is individual here, since many factors influence this process. Including the amount of dough, the ratio of wheat / rye, proofing temperature, how mature the starter was. : pardon: In my personal experience, the proofing of such a dough is not much higher than a simple wheat dough, somewhere around 3-4 hours.

[K_igor]

K_igor I think that everything is individual here, since many factors influence this process. Including the amount of dough, the ratio of wheat / rye, proving temperature, how mature the starter was. : pardon: In my personal experience, the proofing of such a dough is not much higher than a simple wheat, somewhere around 3-4 hours.

Question: Based on what you read here, the sourdough is fed at the peak of the rise, right? And as I understand it
even after the start of its creation, that is, do not wait a day, but how it will turn out. Correct me if I am mistaken.

Question: Based on what you read here, the sourdough is fed at the peak of the rise, right? And as I understand it
even after the start of its creation, that is, do not wait a day, but how it goes. Correct me if I am mistaken.

Everything is correct. So you have already grown the leaven?

Everything is correct. So you have already grown the leaven?

Well, yes, it is grown. But the strangeness is that I don't have to grow it for 3 days, but about 18 hours, that is, the peak
activity after each feeding for about 6 hours. I'm shocked. Plain rye flour, plain water, glass jar,
wet wipe, 30-31 degrees of heat. BUT, if you wait a day, then it's a matter of seams. Something very far from my results
necessary. And the most offensive thing is that the bread was steamed (rye-wheat custard) for the same 6 hours (as well as the growth
sourdough). Then I asked myself - is it necessary? And if my leaven reached its peak day and night, then
would the dough rise for a day? So you'll go crazy ...

I wanted to add pictures of the process, but did not understand how to insert an image here ((

Look here: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...f&Itemid=82&topic=73109.0

I would like to suggest to those who cannot grow the "eternal" leaven on wheat flour.

It didn't work for me for a long time, I experimented for about 3 months with different flours. If I make sourdough on Makfa or 1c flour, then nothing happens. Even if you add 20% peeled rye flour. I started several times - I waited up to 10 days. The maximum growth of the starter culture is one and a half times per day, then it falls off and peroxides if you do not feed further. The bread did not rise on it at all.

The whole problem was solved by the use of wheat flour of the 2nd grade of Chelyabinsk. On it, the leaven rises in 36 hours! Sometimes I added 20% rye flour for greater acceleration, then the previously prepared sourdough rises 3 times after 6-12 hours from feeding.

You don't even need to keep the sourdough warm - I didn't notice any difference. I start to cook it at normal room temperature +22 .. + 24'C.

The main thing is the right flour. Grade 2 was perfect.

But I did the opposite. She began to grow rye. The leaven rose, but could not raise the bread. Overfeed by 2 grade. Same. I tried to add honey, kefir, etc. It's useless. I decided to try the highest. I fed it 2 times. The leaven rose 3 times, which was not the case before, only 2 times maximum.
Last night I kneaded the dough with this sourdough and put it in the refrigerator right in a bucket of HP. Today I took it out, let it warm up, put French bread without a scapula on the program. In 20 minutes. baking will begin, then I will report, but I already like the result.