Starter cultures - in questions and answers

[Lindley]

Lindley, I would gladly share with you, but I live far from you ... why don't you want to grow yourself? Just a couple of days - and she's yours.

Hostess girls, and who from Kiev can share the leaven? I have been raising and using my own all last year, but in the summer I didn’t look at it either, I don’t have it anymore. I promise to love, groom, and cherish !!

I will gladly share the leaven. But I don't visit the city every day. I'll write the phone in a personal.

kava: Last time she raised her for about a week, and then the heating was already turned on - but now it's too cold here, there is nowhere to put her in warmth

Summer resident: thanks, I'll call you back!

Good day.

Has anyone tried a sourdough on Indian sea rice or kombucha?

[Viki]

Girls, let's tell each other how we started and grew our starter cultures.
And I will share my story. I grew the leaven in February of this year, for a long time it was not given to me, until one day I read the explanation Viki in growing another sourdough: "We take 100 gr. water, 100 gr. rye flour and 1 gr. fresh yeast or 0.5 gr. dry. Why do we need yeast, you ask? It's simple - we will not create any special temperature regimes so that the "good" bacteria could defeat the "bad" bacteria in a fair fight. Our yeast will die out completely no later than 18 hours have passed, but it will improve (speed up) the fermentation process and have time to release a certain amount of alcohol, which will disinfect our "workpiece" from "bad" bacteria" - Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)
That's when I decided to mix it with a small piece of yeast dough. And since then, she began to grow on my own, I never added trembling again. test. Now I have two sourdoughs, one is white, the other part of the sourdough has been converted into rye, and now both live in my refrigerator.
Not so long ago, my starter cultures remained unkempt, and for three weeks they lived without feeding in the refrigerator, where T 11-12 was kept all this time * White became completely liquid, and the rye was covered with a crust. When I returned home, during the day I updated them three times, and since then they work again and raise bread well. Girls with experience, I would like to know at the same time your opinion whether it is worth starting a new starter culture or continue to use this one. The smell of the sourdough immediately after feeding is pleasant, lactic acid, but if you do not feed it on time, it becomes more acute and vigorous, this has not happened before. The smell of baked bread has become even stronger and more aromatic, very pleasant, it tastes like the same as before. But it seems to me that its composition has changed, the leaven is no longer the same as before, but no worse, it just became different. This is the story of my leaven.

[Margit]

Margit, I came up with a rule for myself - to start a new leaven every half a year. Even when it seems that the old one is good, and lifts well, and smells delicious, but the new one is still better in all these indicators. And the spirit of bread is stronger or something, and the porosity is better ... I have a Frenchwoman, I tried lactic acid, rye, but this one I like the most

In winter I had a Frenchwoman - such a glorious one, I really always bake bread with yeast, but sourdough is still sourdough.
And I grew it according to Lyudmilin's LJ and after I read the whole topic on our forum, or rather all the answers from Raisin and Vicki - they are for me a guru of ferments.
For some reason, the sourdough initially slowed down - it stopped rising briskly after a week, and in general it became sluggish, then I read the advice, asked a couple more questions - and everything went like clockwork.I loved her so much - she was like a pet animal to me - in the spring I had to lie down in the hospital - so my son fed her, my toiler - I asked her to be patient, because I noticed that she did not really like other people's hands

And now I have grown a grape - I dreamed about it since winter - I was waiting for my own grapes. It was interesting to try. A good leaven and stronger than my winter Frenchwoman can work without yeast - but here I was preparing seriously, for a young moon, with a good mood and prayer, and I grew the Frenchwoman more spontaneously.
Moon rhythms in starter culture are a very important element.
Still, it's easiest to grow a Frenchwoman in just 3 days.

In Lyudmila's magazine I read that wheat starters are started on a new one every six months, like Katya, she decided to adhere to the same algorithm for herself. However, in the summer it turned out to be completely inconvenient - I do not have a refrigerator with 12 *, nor a cellar. And the dacha-sea, rest. Who would look after her? Conclusion - in the summer I live without sourdough, on self-leavening (thanks to Vikulechka - such a recipe is a good, compromise option) all summer I lived.

I also tried a semi-finished rye product, but since we eat little rye bread, it was not very in demand. Although it is so easy to grow and feed
The very first - MK from Admin, but French, and grape too (to feed her in the same way as a Frenchwoman, maybe a slightly different microbiological composition for her) - my favorites. They make the most delicious bread.

[kava]

Thank you kava, Thank you rinishek !
I also think the same, it is necessary to update the leaven - to grow a new one, your opinion is a confirmation of my thoughts. I just feel sorry for this for some reason, all summer she worked with me, baked bread, as if she were alive, she understands her hands, a kind word ... But I understand that I need to start a new one. I will start a new leaven now in October, on the young moon.

It's a pity of course - indeed, the leaven becomes a living being, reacts to your mood, and there is a feeling of gratitude for the leaven - it was so with me, especially with a Frenchwoman. But we must understand that everyone has their own life cycle and their own leaven has already worked out. Tune in in advance that the leaven has been released for six months.
Never mind, if you grow another one - it will be better than the previous one - after all, the microbiological composition will still be yours - the hands are the same.

Colleagues, help.
The leaven is blooming. I make it according to a five-day recipe from rye flour. On the sixth day, it becomes covered with a white fluffy crust. Probably the fifth attempt. Since summer I can’t grow leaven. The flour was different. Until this year, two everything was normal, it turned out without problems.
With what it can be connected? How to fix?

mold is bad ... but I can't think of why it doesn't work five times in a row ?!
maybe it is worth changing the flour? what's the five-day recipe?

if you read Temka, you noticed that when questions arise, many describe the procedure and sometimes support a photo. Together, the sequence of actions is analyzed, and errors and solutions are found.
Maybe you should describe your algorithm in detail - indicating the temperature and even the place where the sourdough is grown?

Recipe: 🔗 - did everything without deviations
The flour was different, because I thought it was the flour. Now rye "Leningradskaya", wheat - Tver
The temperature was also different - it began not to receive even in the heat of the summer, and it continued in the cold without heating, and now, when the temperature is 25 degrees.
Photos ... We still need to make them ...

in my opinion, no one has grown such. I don't remember having any questions about it.

It turns out that mold appears after you add wheat flour a third time, right? Flour can be bad exactly wheat (anything can be - it was contaminated or processed, or in general there are molds in the flour)? try another manufacturer again

or a sourdough in another way.

You can also try adding three pieces of raisins (preferably unprocessed, with a white bloom and unwashed) - the fruits are full of the yeast we need. You can throw in a pinch of malt
Although I'm 90% sure that the matter is in flour.

Yes, more! and no one is sick at home? maybe the microflora itself at home is not very favorable?

I tried different flour.
Not when the wheat was added, but on the 5-6th day, that is, when everything should be ready theoretically.

Well, yes, I will probably have to try another way.

no, I mean that just in three days of feeding with wheat flour, which by definition is "weaker" in microbiological terms in comparison with rye, mold has time to develop to such an extent that it appears on the surface.
Did they change the dishes every time? mold is such a terrible thing, the spores of this fungus penetrate the product through and through, and mold appears on top - this is the finish line. It is not for nothing that doctors advise throwing out the entire product if mold appears on the surface.

and you, as far as I understood, need wheat leaven, right?
easy to grow grape and kind of raisin. And they show themselves well in practice.
I have grape - I am very happy with it
You can try a Frenchwoman, but somehow not everyone is given it while it is being grown. And when he grows up - then wow !!!
also our Chuchelka uses Kalvelevskaya, and in Ludmila's LiveJournal there is a post that this is an unusually strong and persistent sourdough, although it is grown the longest.

Well yes. On the third day of wheat feeding.
I actually need a rye sourdough. I tried to feed only rye flour - it turns out the same.
Of course I change the dishes.

if you need rye, then do not suffer with wheat
Here is the most wonderful leaven, it shows itself remarkably in practice, it is convenient to store - in general, a joy for a working person!
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=42973.0

The zest in this leaven is that no one allows it to stray towards the pathogenic flora.
four days - and you are again with leaven.

I will definitely try.

Good afternoon, wise people!
So I decided to get confused with leaven. I chose rye, since it is difficult with us (Moscow) with natural dairy products, I have not seen whey for 100 years, and milk does not sour
I studied all 70 plus pages of "questions and answers", looked through thematic sections, in general - muddied. It turned out, everything was as expected, according to the indicated time frame, on the 3rd day it started to smell good, sour.
But a question arose. Here I have it "leavened", I want to make bread on it. According to the rules, feed for 2 days, on the 3rd oven. Actually, what confused me - how much food to give? As much as the leaven itself? (by weight)? I did not find exact data on the forum (if you stick it, I will be grateful)
I now have 200g of "mother" sourdough. So 200 flour and 200 water? Or not? So far I did 100: 100, it turned out a little thin, I got scared - I'll ruin it.
I will wait for an answer. Thank you.

I am also a beginner leavener, but I have already baked bread with leaven - everything worked out, I do this (according to the teachings of our gurus)
I now have 200g. sourdough or starter in the withers, I take from 200g 1 tbsp. l is 35-40gr, I give it 1 hour at room temperature. temp, then I add 40 grams to these. 100gr. flour and 100gr. warm water, stir and let it wander for 10-12 hours (the kitchen is very warm) - as a result, you will have 200g. ripe sourdough and you add it to the bread recipe, and that sourdough from where you took 1 tbsp. l. put away in the hall-nick for storage. For example, you need 300gr according to the recipe. ripe sourdough - take 1 st. l. starter and 150gr. rye flour and 150g of warm water, stir everything and let it ripen for 10-12 hours. I hope I explained correctly and clearly

It's clear about feeding for the dough, yes, thanks.

and that leaven where did you get 1 tbsp. l. put away in the hall for storage

So it will remain 200 - 1 tbsp. l, and when to feed her? Will it end like that sooner or later? This is probably a version of a quick sourdough, somewhere I met, but I kind of made a classic, eternal ...

I understood - I told you about the VIKI sourdough (semi-finished product), I really liked it for the quality of the finished bread and the fact that it is not messy, you don't need to feed it at all, it’s worth it in the chill and everything, waiting in the wings. and French, but I bake bread 2 times a week, and I need to feed the sourdough every day and more than once. Therefore, I stopped at a semi-finished product. If I need white wheat bread, I transfer 40g a day beforehand. rye sourdough into wheat, that is, everything is the same only, but I feed it with wheat flour
And you need to wait for advice and help from those who make the eternal. Udachi

[Venka, c00k]

Venka, c00k , I greet in the ranks of the leavers!

Thanks to the enthusiasts of this site - Chuchelka, TXT, Luke, and especially Admin - I have been baking bread on rye MK-leaven for over a year. A month before the purchase of the bread machine, I studied and chose the recipe for the sourdough (they bought HP on August 12, and on the 29th I had already baked the first sourdough).

The sourdough was needed to completely replace the factory yeast (that's why Viki did not consider the yeast as an option - after all, an environment was created there for the development of factory yeast, IMHO). Unlike one type of yeast (in the factory, and besides, still strained), approx. 30 kinds !!! And everyone makes their own vitamin and enzyme contribution, enriching our bread

When I read that lactic acid bacteria do not allow unwanted microflora to develop in the leaven, I decided after a brilliant experiment Admin help your leaven and give it to drink not with water, but with kefir, yogurt and other sour milk. Check it out from Admin
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3394.0

The sourdough lived with me for a year, until I left for a sanatorium, now I bake on a new one, there were no problems with breeding. For a year, of course, I softened it up once every 2 months.
I bake 2 times a week.

I store it in the refrigerator, I set the t mode from 10 to 12 degrees - otherwise micro-bacteria die (all the intricacies are written on the site).

I feed in the evening, or even every other day 1: 1. On the eve of baking - a must.
I don't like "keeping the leaven in a black body" (a break of 5-7 days) - I have a nose, like in an old Soviet film about a taster who has lost his sense of smell at a perfume factory, - I smell what most (LUCKY people!) Do not even guess Because of this, I can't feed the old sour milk (Admin, don't throw your slippers at me!). But my starter culture works great on a 2-day KM!

In the morning on the "bread" day I feed again and keep warm until it increases 2-3 times (3-4 hours depending on room temperature) and at the peak of growth, when the leaven is about to start to fall off, I measure 250 g by 400 450 g flour. I feed the remaining sourdough in the refrigerator.

[Nagira]

Nagira, Thank you!

I feed in the evening, or even every other day 1: 1.

My conclusion from your message - I have a sourdough of 200g, and every day (or every other day) I feed it with 200 grams of fresh mixture (100 water and 100 flour) - right?
How to cook before introducing into the dough, I realized, I have a question only regarding the amount of feed for the available stock.

I feed her with 200 grams of fresh mixture (100 water and 100 flour) - right?

Feed 50g. starter cultures - 100 gr. water and 100 gr. flour, or 100 gr. starter cultures - 200 gr. flour and 200 gr. water. It will be better, tested. She will have enough food for 8 hours, if you are not too hot.
But if you want to start baking in 3 - 4 hours, and after feeding more than 8 hours have passed and the sourdough has already begun to fall off, then it can be refreshed by feeding it 200 g. starter cultures - 100 gr. water and 100 gr. water.

I have a question only in relation to the amount of feed for the available stock.

the existing uterine mass can be fed in a ratio of 1: 2 to 1:50. Checked.

For example, I never stick to strict proportions. I put in feeding as much as it seems necessary to me. Sometimes it happens that almost all the sourdough is consumed (it remains 1-1.5 cm high in the bucket) and I add much more than usual (+ 4-5 cm). rarely when there is a desire and time to feed in parts in order to gain the required amount gradually. And yet my starter has been around for several years and works great. So I am sure from this that there are no solid proportions, the main thing is to feed her regularly and not let her sit idle for a long time.

So I am sure from this that there are no solid proportions, the main thing is to feed her regularly and not let her sit idle for a long time.

I agree 100%! There is only a minimum, this is when they feed less than the amount of the starter itself, and with such constant feeding it loses both health and appearance and the maximum at which it is hard for her to live. If a few grams. give the leaven kg. flour - the result will also be unpleasant.

Everything is clear, thank you very much!

Good afternoon to you, bakers! A month ago I came across your site. I learned about leaven for the first time! I have been baking bread in a bread machine for 15-16 years almost every day. I was very fired up to make sourdough bread. Yesterday I put kefir sourdough. Honestly, I haven't read the entire forum, because after reading more than a dozen pages of the forum, everything in my head got mixed up. Thanks to Admin for the step by step description. I will master the sourdough and baking bread on it. I am only confused by the question of additional supplements - I have never heard of them and I don’t know where to buy.

Good afternoon, and nice to see you on our forum!
Sourdough is interesting!

All the necessary information on dough and bread can be found here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=22.0, about additives in dough here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=132.0

There will be questions, ask in relevant topics, success

[alyona]

Eh, here I have a bread maker !!! so far only white bread with yeast turns out, but I still dream of stirring it up with sourdough! if it doesn't work out I will terrorize everyone

Cabbage threatened the goat! Welcome to the forum alyona!
We will be only happy to help!

Hello! She grew her first leaven. It is not so strong yet, I will feed it in 3-4 days. I baked wheat-rye bread, while there is nothing to boast about: the first pancake is lumpy. You can eat bread, but he was a little donkey and had to bake. I made mistakes: most likely, the dough was pulled by water - I put it in the oven so that the bread would rise. But I didn't take into account that rye flour draws in all the moisture from wherever possible. After 15 minutes I removed the water from the oven. But the result did not wait, I found out when I took it out of the oven: it seemed to be baked on top. I took it out of the mold and bread, I feel damp at the bottom. And the acidity is high. But we also eat interspersed with wheat bread. In it, I rarely have mistakes. I bake in HP. I noticed that the height of the loaf, in my opinion, depends largely on the lunar day. The truth was not much emphasized on which days the loaf rises worse. But the lunar influence is definitely there!

[Zest]

Now I'm conducting an experiment, though not entirely correct, because I don't know the temperature on the second shelf in my refrigerator
Already 4 days there is a French sourdough in the refrigerator, which after 12 hours of exposure after feeding at the stage of the beginning of shedding, I placed in a dish with holes in the lid. Today I took 50 g of this leaven, added 150 ml of water and 150 g of premium flour, after 4 hours it had a high-quality leaven that increased 3 times in volume at the stage of ascent. Baked French bread for min. prescription water from Zest ... It is no different from French sourdough bread
I will continue to stand a portion of the starter in the refrigerator. Now after another 3 days I will try to bake bread on it after feeding.
I don't know what sourdough it is, but it works great.
I do this so that every 12 hours I do not have a problem of what to do with the wonderful leaven, but also in order to bake delicious leavened bread.
Can anyone have a similar experience? Please share.

Lana, at low temperatures, below 10-12 degrees, lactic acid bacteria die out in sourdoughs, giving the bread a unique taste and aroma. Yeast reproduces as usual, a little slower. Therefore, try to measure the temperature in your refrigerator, usually + 4 + 5 degrees.

[himichka]

Therefore, try to measure the temperature in your refrigerator, usually + 4 + 5 degrees.

himichka
No, no, my temperature in this refrigerator is higher, this is an old STINOL, where we store canned food, canned food, fresh roots, etc. There, according to my feelings, is more than 10 * C. I will definitely measure

[himichka]

Therefore, try to measure the temperature in your refrigerator, usually + 4 + 5 degrees.

himichka
As far as you can believe the thermometer, but in the refrigerator + 10 * C
You think you shouldn't use such a leaven? Only wild yeast in it Smells like kefir so far ...Maybe there is at least a little lactic acid there, which then reproduce after feeding?
And so I wanted to "invent" something sensible, economical in production and useful, so that the bread was excellent and useful

[himichka]

himichka
As far as you can believe the thermometer, but in the refrigerator + 10 * C
You think you shouldn't use such a leaven? Only wild yeast in it Smells so far as kefirchik ... Maybe there is at least a little bit of lactic acid yeast there, which then reproduce after feeding?
And so I wanted to "invent" something sensible, economical in production and useful, so that the bread was excellent and useful

It seems to me that you are still wrong in this matter. Since before adding it to bread, you will again saturate it with lactic acid bacteria in a sufficient amount. And wild yeast will gain strength to naturally rise the dough. That's why I became interested in the leaven: NATURAL YEAST + additional. vitamins, including lactic acid. bacteria.

[Albina]

Since before adding it to bread, you will again saturate it with lactic acid bacteria in a sufficient amount.

That's why I became interested in the leaven: NATURAL YEAST + additional. vitamins, including lactic acid. bacteria.

And how I saturate her with lactic acid,Albina, because I only add water and flour I hope that lactic acid cultures are preserved in the portion of the sourdough, so that after feeding it can begin to multiply ... Or I don’t understand something about lactic acid ...

It is clear that if you feed only on flour and water, of course, no enrichment with lactic acid bacteria will occur. I am planning to feed my MK KEFIR from the milk Tibetan mushroom obtained.

[lana7386]

lana7386
Buy a thermometer and you won't rack your brains.
I keep my starters on the top shelf of the refrigerator. I have two of them, one on wheat flour with the addition of c. h. flour, another rye with hops. I bought a thermometer for the refrigerator, it shows 11 grams on this shelf, so I think that the starter cultures should not suffer. I make bread both in water and with sour milk additives. Both the one and the other rises perfectly.

It is clear that if you feed only on flour and water, of course, no enrichment with lactic acid bacteria will occur. I am planning to feed my MK KEFIR from the milk Tibetan mushroom obtained.

Ladies, it's all about the lactic acid fermentation caused by the bacteria living around us

[himichka, barbariscka, Albina]

himichka, barbariscka, Albina
Thank you girls for your remarks, advice
I love my French sourdough very much, because I really like bread, dough, pancakes-pancakes on it
Therefore, without delving into chemical wisdom, I will feed and use a full-fledged French sourdough

My sourdough finally started to smell like sour milk!
I feed only flour - water, flour, however, it is rye, then whole grain, then the highest grade, depending on the bread recipe. Lives alternately in the refrigerator at 12 * C, then in the kitchen. Still, when there is a refrigerator with the necessary T for sourdough, such a relief for the baker, you can take a couple - three days off from feeding!

[Margit]

Lives alternately in the refrigerator at 12 * C, then in the kitchen. Still, when there is a refrigerator with the necessary T for sourdough, such a relief for the baker, you can take a couple - three days off from feeding!

Margit- Ritochka
In the past year, we collectively came to the conclusion that the French sourdough does not like temperatures below 17 ° C. Even 15 * C is critical for her ...
I read that there are sourdoughs that live for weeks in the refrigerator, and decided to test my survival. The sourdough worked perfectly: the bread is tasty, the aroma is familiar to bread with this sourdough. But I was convinced that the composition changes in the leaven from a decrease in temperature. Reading all the information is too lazy, so I decided that they are not looking for goodness I will act according to the instructions

I don't know where to ask a question, so I appeal to those who bake sourdough bread, because most often we bake it in the oven.Can you please tell me if it is possible to bake bread in a Teflon mold ... I really want to bake bricks, but I can't find a mold for them. And then they called me. that there is a Teflon dish with a size of 11x26cm, a form for bread is written ... But I have doubts about what temperature such a form can withstand and whether it is suitable for bread ..
Sorry if the question is off-topic ...

I don't know where to ask a question, so I appeal to those who bake sourdough bread, because most often we bake it in the oven. Can you please tell me if it is possible to bake bread in a Teflon mold ... I really want to bake bricks, but I can't find a mold for them. And then they called me. that there is a Teflon dish with a size of 11x26cm, a form for bread is written ... But I have doubts about what temperature such a form can withstand and whether it is suitable for bread ..
Sorry if the question is off-topic ...

Are you going to an offline meeting? One could pass, we have aluminum molds like dirt

[himichka]

Are you going to an offline meeting? Could pass, we have aluminum molds like dirt

Oh, where to run ?? himichka , Lena, and me !!!!!! Can you tell me? So you want an aluminum brick for bread! And I'll give you the money.

Can you please tell me if it is possible to bake bread in a Teflon dish ...

barbariscka , I bake in this teflon cake for cake. Everything stands up perfectly.
🔗

[himichka]

himichka
Where is the meeting and when? Did I miss something...
Omela
Thanks, but I have round teflon molds ... I want a brick ...

[himichka]

himichka
I want a brick ...

And I want to !!

barbariscka read about the meeting here

Ladies, die-cast aluminum for a 650-700-gram loaf. Tomorrow I'll go to the market and take a look. How many do you need? Svetik travels light, agrees to carry gifts, but I think, within reasonable weight limits.