Starter cultures - in questions and answers

Poured a pinch of dry instant yeast into my starter

this is another leaven.
This
Sourdough "The Simplest" or
this
Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)
that is, you did not rejuvenate your leaven, but made another one.

I'm wondering how long it takes for industrial yeast to die, giving way to wild yeast?

Our yeast will die out completely no later than 18 hours have passed, but it will improve (speed up) the fermentation process and have time to release a certain amount of alcohol, which will disinfect our "workpiece" from "bad" bacteria.

I read that the correct sourdough should not sink in water, but it always sinks with me, although it seems to rise, and the smell is normal ... what could be wrong, who will tell you?

How much has your sourdough increased in volume and how much time has passed since the last feeding?

how strong

question to whom?

Olya, I have rye sourdough, but I ran out of flour,
but I had to bake and I fed with spelled flour.
Will the leaven return to its previous state, if later
will I feed it with rye flour?

question to whom?

this is a question for solomein about sinking leaven. at me the most, but as I understand it happens because the leaven is not ripe to the end. I have already tried to add old kefir, like to make kefir sourdough from Admin, but my sourdough reacts to it in the same way as to water, that is, barely. For example, over the past 8 hours it has increased in volume only by one and a half times and the bubbles are small, completely unlike those shown in the pictures on this forum. I understand that the reason is that yeast in this flour simply does not develop, or some special water is needed. It was recently said that now, even in almost all bottled waters, it (water) is purified through osmosis and becomes almost distilled. That is why bottled water does not spoil for a long time, unlike tap water, which begins to spoil after a few days. Therefore, my question is, if the yeast develops slowly, some kind of feeding may be needed for their accelerated development. I already added sugar (a couple of pinches) but did not notice much of the effect. my starter is at 23 degrees.

If the sourdough is rye, it develops more slowly,
as flour is heavier.
But always in different ways. When it comes quickly
and when a little bit. The girls said the specificity
flour.
The bread is good.

[Anna]

Will the leaven return to its previous state, if later
will I feed it with rye flour?

Anna, I think I will return.
I'm not a theorist. I am a practitioner))) I try everything)))

that the yeast in this flour just doesn't develop

perhaps. I had this. And the bread was good.

my leaven reacts to it in the same way as to water, that is, just barely. for example, over the past 8 hours, it has increased in volume only one and a half times and the bubbles are small,

Straight from scratch? Here they mixed and drove on a new one. Or is it an addition to the old one?
I have a rye sourdough for infusion of kombucha. Yes, the bubbles are small.
In general, the leaven is alive, it reacts to everything
Yes, and what kind of flour? And where is the water?

Straight from scratch? So they mixed it and went on a new one. Or is it an addition to the old one?

This is after feeding the old sourdough. It rose one and a half times and the rise stopped

perhaps. I had this. And the bread was good

And what did you do? How did you get out of the situation? You absolutely correctly said that bread turns out to be bad, since such a leaven is not able to raise the bread, no matter how much the dough is allowed to stand

Yes, and what kind of flour? And where is the water?

I use Granets whole grain rye flour. 4 months have passed since the date of manufacture. As for the water, I found an article in which a woman described how she came to her friend with her old, tested leaven and with her flour, but as a result, her dough did not rise, because they used osmosis water.

And what did you do?

threw away and bought new flour, started a new leaven

This is after feeding the old sourdough.

and now let's decide
what you fed with yeast has nothing to do with kefir sourdough. And what happened to you, I do not know and cannot comment.
I don't use garnets. And whole-ground too.
Try on regular rye flour. If there is a bakery nearby, buy a couple of kg from them, and lead your sourdough

Girls, there are so many different sections that I get confused and lost.

How much has your sourdough increased in volume and how much time has passed since the last feeding?

increases by one and a half to two times, but where does the time of the last feeding? she always drowns with me

How to properly feed and store starter culture in the refrigerator?
Opinions are dark, which one is correct?
1.
- We feed only cold sourdough
- Leaven must be kept warm before feeding
2.
- put in the refrigerator that settled after feeding
- put it in the refrigerator for 1-2 hours
- we remove immediately after feeding

I don’t understand anything, can someone explain to me on the fingers?

[Newbie]

Newbie, my opinion is - do as you like. Sourdough is a living organism, it will get used to any regime, if it is not too extreme.
I'm lazy and don't like dancing with tambourines. I take it out of the refrigerator and feed it immediately. When ripe, after 8 hours - I put most of it in the dough, a piece in the refrigerator.
I don't preheat anything, I don't feed it separately in front of the refrigerator. But I have rye. Perhaps wheat is more tender and requires some special techniques. Let the wheat lovers advise you.

I have had sourdough for a long time. In a closed jar in the refrigerator
there is a leaven.
I decided to bake.
1. I take out a jar of sourdough and keep it on the table in the kitchen for 1-2 hours.
2. I feed her and put her in heat for 12-20 hours under a film or cover,
but in the box, since there is already more of it. The leaven should be doubled.
It's worth noticing. If not very warm, it will last longer.
If it's warm, faster. Depends on flour. Rye sourdough is denser.
3. I take a clean jar and set aside two tablespoons of the new leaven
and put it in the refrigerator.
4. From the box I add the rest of the leaven to the dough.

For a long time I could not understand why my dough is so cool,
then I realized. I add so much flour and water to the top dressing,
how much is needed for the leaven.
But I subtract from the total amount of flour and water that is required for bread.
That is, I add the rest of the flour and water to the dough.
It happens that the recipes immediately indicate how much of what is needed for bread.
And then how much for feeding.



I don't know if it's clear enough.

[SvetaI]

SvetaI, Markusy, Thank you

but I'm experimenting, now and then

I was wondering why the Masters recommend putting the fallen leaven in the refrigerator. If we remove the ripening starter culture in the cold, lactic acid bacteria have not yet gained their strength and number. And in cold conditions, their activity freezes or worse. And yeast feels more comfortable, they still have food, they multiply. Thus, the balance of MK-yeast is disturbed in the leaven. And if we remove the fallen, MK has already gained strength and numbers, you can relax in the cold, but yeast has nothing to eat, they are not active and also rest. Thus, the balance of MK-yeast is maintained.
Something like this
Let the older comrades correct me

3.I take a clean can and set aside two tablespoons of the new sourdough.
and put it in the refrigerator.

that is, do you put the starter culture in the refrigerator when it is hungry and crumpled? and how long does she rest there?

and who rarely bakes what to do with the leftovers? It's a pity to throw them away, but if I save them, the utter sourness, I baked pancakes the other day, I immediately remembered the jellied fish)

I feed the leaven and let it rise in half.
Then I stir and set aside two canteens
spoon it into a clean jar with a lid and no holes.
I put it in the refrigerator and don't use it for a week.
The rest is in the dough.
I bake rye bread and sourdough once a week for almost a year.

[Anna]

And I have almost the same regime as Anna Markusy... Only I do not mix the leaven separately before use, all the same, everything will be stirred in the dough, and I put a smaller teaspoon in the refrigerator - a heaped teaspoon. My sourdough is already 5 years old.
This Sunday my leaven scared me. Usually I feed her in the evening, at 23 o'clock and by 7 (maximum by 9) in the morning she is already ready for baking. And here, neither at 7 nor at 9 there is no progress, it sits and does not grow and does not even smell of leaven, just rye flour. But then, I see, there were bubbles, the right smell appeared, and by the middle of the day the leaven slowly revived. At 15 o'clock, I put in the dough and baked normal bread.
And all because there was a big break in baking - almost three weeks, so my leaven was sad.
I hope I got better, for the weekend I'll see if I can feed her with a little industrial yeast, it makes her more fun

Girls who work with c / z sourdough, please respond!
I have a very strong rye eternal. Now I wanted to make bread after feeding it several times with wheat flour. But the smell of leaven scares me away - some unpleasant, putrid one. Already fed 4 times. It grows quickly, 2-3 hours. But the smell! Moreover, it is not immediately audible, but you pick a little ...
What is it? Unusual flour, and the leaven is out of balance and now starts from scratch?
FAQ to do something? Spit and start by leaps and bounds or continue?
Who faced this, help advice.

Girls, ayy! Is there really no one who feeds the c / c?

[Nata]

Girls who work with c / z sourdough, please respond!
I have a very strong rye eternal. Now I wanted to make bread after feeding it several times with wheat flour. But the smell of leaven scares me away - some unpleasant, putrid one. Already fed 4 times. It grows quickly, 2-3 hours. But the smell! Moreover, it is not immediately audible, but you pick a little ...
What is it? Unusual flour, and the leaven is out of balance and now starts from scratch?
FAQ to do something? Spit and start by leaps and bounds or continue?
Who faced this, help advice.

Nata, I grew a sourdough from a Spanish site on whole grain flour and filtered water: Sourdoughs - Q&A # 1948... The aroma you describe is characteristic of the beginning of the breeding and corresponds to approximately the first three days. Further, the aroma changes to less harsh, but not too pleasant. On the 5th day, the settled sourdough has a rather sharp aroma of brewer's yeast, on the 7th day, the aroma is good yeast and not harsh, and on the 8th day, honey notes appear in the aroma of the sourdough. With the described growth peaks and the corresponding aroma, most likely your starter is immature and, yes, it looks like it starts from scratch (c). Frequent feedings were typical for my starter from about 5 to 7 days of growing, and two times from 8 days.
Yes, I would put the bread on yeast, and observe the sourdough, if there were no cardinal changes in the composition, then, most likely, after a while its internal balance will be restored. For the initial feeding of the eternal rye sourdough, perhaps ordinary wheat flour of the highest grade or 1st grade would be more suitable.

[Markusy]

Markusy, SvetaI, and you have rye?
I have wheat, such a number will not work with it, here gluten must be watched like the apple of an eye
I would convert it to rye, I have to put wheat flour somewhere, the surplus has accumulated, but I don't bake on it

Markusy, SvetaI, do you have rye?

I don’t like rye, wheat bread with sourdough and don’t bake. And yes, rye is easier to manage and not so capricious.

I don’t like rye, wheat bread with sourdough and don’t bake.

why? sour? and if you rejuvenate for several days?

[Newbie]

Newbie, I do not like even a little sourness in wheat bread. Perhaps, different dances with tambourines can achieve the absence of sourness, but, in my opinion, the game is not worth the candle. I achieve the taste of well-fermented bread with long cold brews, it suits me perfectly.
But sourdough rye bread is a completely different matter. There, sourness is needed and the easiest way to achieve it is to start a sourdough. Then you will not need any improvers and acidifiers, the correct taste of the bread will turn out by itself.

[Ilona]

Ilona, thank you very much! I would not have dug up your post myself. Now at least some clarity. Did I understand correctly that I can already feed the 1st grade, until the smell returns to normal?

[Nata]

Nata, no. Wheat flour of the 1st grade is added directly to the starter of the ready-made mature sourdough already during the preparation of dough for bread, depending on the recipe, there may be premium flour, and whole-grain wheat flour is not used.
For your sourdough, in the process of growing, whole grain flour will be good with a subsequent transition to premium wheat flour (bakery, not confectionery). According to the Spanish sourdough recipe, whole grain wheat flour or whole grain rye flour (if rye sourdough is grown) is added for the first 5 days, from day 6 it is recommended to transfer to regular premium wheat flour or, accordingly, peeled rye flour (seeded).
Your starter is based on a rye eternal leaven and is likely to affect the compliance with the recipe by day. Still, I would count the day as 1 day when you added whole grain flour to the eternal rye starter. The day of the transition to wheat flour of the highest grade may be shifted, and may correspond to the recipe. On the 5th day, the leaven makes a sharp and noticeable jump in the increase in volume - this is the peak of fermentation before the further victory of beneficial bacteria. By the end of this day or the next, the acidity of the leaven will also increase, the clear and sharp aroma of brewer's yeast in the fallen leaven. After passing the peak, the sourdough will require quite frequent feeding, as if gaining strength and can already be switched to feeding with premium wheat flour or, accordingly, for maintaining rye sourdough, rye flour. Gradually, the aroma will also change to the usual yeast, and from 8-9 days, floral-honey notes will appear in the aroma. In terms of volume on days 7-8, there will be a stable doubling of weight with two meals a day and, most likely, a can of larger capacity will be required than it was all this time. From day 10, I already reduced the proportions, leaving 50 g, and then I switched to 30 g, that is, 30 g of sourdough, 30 g of flour, 30 g of water, so it was convenient for me for the used jar, so as not to "catch" it constantly ...
I used regular baking soda to wash the starter cans and lids with a thorough rinse with water.
Nata, in the subject Alexandra there was a similar question about the transfer of rye sourdough to whole grain Whole grain starter culture # 4... Pay attention to the different proportions for the leavening versus the Spanish leaven. You may also be interested in general recommendations on the use and storage of the starter culture if you decide to leave it entirely on whole grain flour.

Ilona, ​​thanks for your answers.
My leaven is trying to escape from the can about 3 hours after feeding. Stable, fast growth, that is, it behaves like a ready-made one. But the smell is still unpleasant. Today 5 days have passed. I don't know who won there ... This is the first time I've encountered such a thing in 10 years.
I feel sorry for the c / s flour for further feeding, - an expensive Italian one, but I don't bake on premium flour now, only 1st or 2nd grade. Restrictions have been introduced for children: it is not possible to have high-grade medicine yet.
Based on this, is it possible to take the 1st grade for feeding further?

[Nata]

Nataif the scent is still putrid, then no one has won yet. According to the recipe, it is recommended to continue feeding for a few more days, and if there are any doubts about its good condition (the aroma is strong and unpleasant, the sourdough has strange colors), the sourdough is discarded completely and all over again.
The rapid growth of the starter culture may be due to increased ambient temperature and not be related to its degree of maturity. According to the recipe, they suggest increasing the amount of flour, leaving the amount of water unchanged, that is, adding, for example, 125 g instead of 100 g. A smaller proportion of water slightly slows down the growth of yeast, and the mature sourdough could be put into the refrigerator.
Once a stable starter has been obtained, it must be cultured for at least another week before being used for making bread.
Nata, I do not know how the whole grain sourdough will behave when it is converted to 1 grade flour. In my opinion, it's too early, in a couple of days it could be tried if positive changes were outlined. Alternatively, it would be possible to increase the proportion of flour for feeding, lower the ambient temperature, which should reduce the frequency of feeding, and evaluate the state of the sourdough after 1-2 days. With its still doubtful condition - throw it away and not waste time and flour.

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so we continue to make bread ourselves

[Ilona]

Ilona, well, boom continue for 3-4 days. Then I will unsubscribe what came of it.

[Nata]

boom to last 3-4 days. Then I will unsubscribe what came of it.

Nata, with your experience, most likely, in a couple of days you will be able to make a decision on the further maintenance of the leaven. Thank you, it would be interesting to know the final result. And may the Right cultures prevail, and the leaven will be of good quality.

I feel sorry for the c / s flour for further feeding, - an expensive Italian one, but I don't bake on premium flour now, only 1st or 2nd grade. Restrictions have been introduced for children: it is not possible to have high-grade medicine yet.

Nata, perhaps, in this version, the sourdough on flour of the 2nd grade from Chad Robertson will be more convenient in cultivation and further maintenance? His method of baking bread on a sweet (young) dough from this leaven is also interesting, which gives the finished bread the most wheaty taste and aroma: "sweet, floral-fresh, fruity-creamy" (c), "but not sour either in taste or in aroma "(from).
More information about sourdough in the magazine mariana-aga and on the site "Khlebomoly":

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[Admin]

Admin, Good day. There is a problem. I bought dry sourdoughs for baking bread, rye and wheat. I tried to bake sourdough rye bread without yeast. Nothing succeeded. The dough has not risen. Question 1. Does the starter culture need to be activated somehow? and 2. Do you need to add yeast to the sourdough in the recipe? Thank you in advance

it would be interesting to know the final result

I'm telling you. Nothing good has come of it. Probably, flour was initially very rich in all kinds of "flora", and each feeding caused a new surge in the struggle between "ours" and "strangers". Tired of waiting for victory, I switched to Chadovskaya sourdough. Flour of the 2nd grade disappeared from the retail very on time, so I mix a little c / z with the 1st grade (I bought it easier).
Today I baked bread according to the Chadovsky method - on two doughs (1 grade + c / h). I baked in KhP, I could not persuade myself to use the oven, there is no heat in the city for the first day, the house is not cold yet, it is hot.
The result was very pleasing. Lace crumb. The smell is incomparable, mostly sweet and creamy with a cool bread spirit. The crust is gorgeous!
Powdered milk and butter were added to the dough instead of vegetable oil. I put a little more salt, in the French (or Italian) style.
By the way, I chose the "French" program. Convenient program for dough bread. Threw everything, incl. dough, in a bucket, and even before kneading, both doughs reached the desired condition.

And before that I swore at Panasovskoe "standing"!

In general, what can you say more, it's better to see it once.




Ilona! Thank you so much for the tip on Chadovskaya sourdough! I liked her, even though in the heat she eats almost without a break, 4-5 times I feed 1: 4 - horror! Soon it will devour us all!

[Nata]

Nata, thank you for telling me about the result and thank you for the information about the new sourdough!
Could you create a Chad Robertson sourdough theme and share a bread recipe? The result is excellent and always interesting without an oven.

You know, I'll bake a couple more times, if the result is stable, I'll put out the bread. But the leaven ... If anyone is interested, then the material is exhaustive under your link. Personally, I didn't have any questions / doubts. Everything is as simple as a rake. If I come across someone's question on it, of course I will answer, but I will not be able to keep track of everything on purpose, and I will not be able to keep the leavening topic.

[Nata]

Nata, clear. Thank you .

Good day. I have been looking here not for a long time on forums about sourdough, and now I found it, read, there are many options for sourdough. Well, maybe someone knows the leaven on hops. made by my grandmother but unfortunately it is no longer there. I don't know how she did, but I remember some dry lumps she always had in a linen bag and she somehow put dough on them. Maybe someone knows or the grandmothers of someone else remember and know about such yeast.

.

well, maybe someone knows the leaven on hops

Here the hop leaven Monastic leavens

More about hop sourdough

Thank you. the answer is satisfactory. so much information. Thanks..

Hello. I ask for help with the eternal rye leaven. I took it out about a month ago, I bake bread twice a week, I store it in the refrigerator. Two weeks ago, the dough grew very well during proofing, it just wanted to get out of the bowl. On Monday, the dough did not rise very willingly, the loaf was smaller than before. Today the dough went well, but the dough is almost in place. For 5 hours of proofing it has risen less than twice.
Yesterday I used the same sourdough to bake pancakes, which turned out to be lush and tasty. But in them the dough is not as thick as for bread.
So I understand the problem is in the leaven? How can I revive her?

I'm afraid to bring a new one. The flour is to blame. It was so

After I sent the message, I took a part of the leaven from the refrigerator, fed it 1: 0.5: 0.5 and left it in the room. Tomorrow I'll feed you more, then I'll see how it goes.

She took a loaf out of the oven. A sad sight. It's a pity that I kneaded as many as 4 loaves. Friends asked. I will leave people without bread (((

It took 2 hours after feeding the starter culture. Bubbles are visible at the bottom. So she's not dead?
All 4 loaves are as cool as clay

All 4 loaves are as dough as clay

did you change the flour?

No. The flour is the same all the time. After that incident with the leaven, everything is fine. I keep it in the refrigerator for a maximum of a day, the main one at room temperature. I bake every day, bread and everything else is great

[Katilapa]

Katilapa, try feeding the sourdough with a little honey. When, after a long absence, I feed the starter for the first time, I add half a teaspoon of honey to the total weight of the starter culture 50-60g.

Thank you. I'll try on occasion)

I'm watching the topic is not active at all. But still I will ask in the hope of an answer. Recently, bread on "eternal" sourdough has become sour. Even if I take only 10 grams of it for a loaf of about 800 grams. I baked a French roll, the first time I got an amazingly tasty bread, the second sour, the third even more sour.