Starter cultures - in questions and answers

[Newbie]

Newbie,

Doesn't bread look like potato disease?

Newbie,

Doesn't bread look like potato disease?

the fifth day - the bread is not sticky, I met a stick, not that

is there something pathogenic in the leaven? she is bitter with me, stable, changing flour

[at least will settle to half]

Good day to all. On one of the sites I read the following about storing the leaven: "wait until the leaven rises to its peak, and then - at least will settle to half, maximum - it will settle completely and stand for some time, until the smell of a ripe sourdough (and sour taste) is acquired. "Dear experts, do you also agree that before you put the sourdough in the refrigerator, the sourdough must at least partially settle after it is fully raised? the leaven has risen 3 times and does not settle within a day and a half. Can I put it in the refrigerator. I took it out (on whole-grain rye flour) for about 2 weeks. It will be very sorry for the time spent if I spoil the leaven by putting it in the refrigerator.

what are the conflicting storage tips

what are the conflicting storage tips

Exactly. And as a result of this, the question arises of how to store it correctly, that exactly what was needed remained in the leaven, and any bad pathogenic microflora disappeared

And as a result of this, the question arises of how to store it correctly, that exactly what was needed remained in the leaven, and any bad pathogenic microflora disappeared

Let's think logically. If you wait for the leaven to completely settle and still stand in this mode for some time, the pathogenic flora will be noncomilfo in such conditions of "fermentation", presumably. But having sprawled on the bottom, exhausted, exhausted all its resources, and thrown to top it all off to Alaska, what kind of return can you expect from it later?

It's purely to speculate, I myself have not yet determined the storage algorithm for myself, I mock her in full

[Alex-M]

My leaven has risen 3 times and does not settle for a day and a half. Can I put it in the refrigerator? I took it out (on whole grain rye flour) for about 2 weeks

Alex-M, it seems to me that you can already bake something with your sourdough, and put a little (50 grams) in the refrigerator. This will be the starter.
In general, the eternal sourdough on whole-grain rye flour is quite an unkillable thing. She will get used to the regime that you arrange for her. Well, of course, if not extreme.
I usually feed the starter, bring it up to maximum lift (8-12 hours in the room), knead the bread and put the starter in the refrigerator. That is, I do not wait for a visible fall.
True, I define the maximum rise as follows: if the leaven has risen in the jar under the lid and does not start when the lid is opened slightly to fall, it means that she is not yet fully uplifted, she still needs to wander. But if the time does not work out, I bake it as it is.

And here's what I found in "" about storing sourdough in the refrigerator: "it is impossible to put it in the refrigerator immediately after feeding, without giving it time to rise-lower-infuse, gaining acidity: acidity is the main protection of the starter from foreign microorganisms, including yeast cp, a guarantee of its health and efficiency. IT IS IMPORTANT! After feeding, you need to let the starter culture calmly process food, develop protective substances, and then place it in conditions that are, in fact, stressful for it.."

I usually feed the starter, bring it up to maximum lift (8-12 hours in the room), knead the bread and put the starter in the refrigerator.

Thank you. Received.Can you tell me what ripe sourdough means? And how long do you wait for the dough to rise and then the dough? About a week ago I tried to make rye-wheat bread in a bread maker with completely manual setting of programs (Bork X800), but nothing worked. I only have dough from the starter lifted for about a day, but not 6-8 hours as it is written in almost all recipes. Sourdough only by the end of the second week began to more or less normally increase in volume, but not on the third day, as they say almost everywhere.

I usually feed the starter, bring it up to maximum lift (8-12 hours in the room), knead the bread and put the starter in the refrigerator.

if it reaches its peak, then it will fall off in the refrigerator?

Can you tell me what ripe sourdough means?

I am not very strong in terminology, but for myself I call this a fed sourdough at the maximum rise, on which you can bake.

And how long do you wait for the dough to rise and then the dough?

When my sourdough was young, it raised the bread 1.5-2 times in the heat for 8 hours. But then I baked without sourdough.
Now the dough ripens for 3 hours, the dough - 1.5-2 hours and then another 40 minutes after molding.

if it reaches its peak, then it will fall off in the refrigerator?

Yes, it gradually falls off.

I have a question for experienced bakers.
Why sourdough bread is so fast
stale?
And by leaps and bounds - no.

Explain, pzhl, what happens to the leaven - the dough does not rise well, but the whole is bubbly to the point of impossibility. What processes are taking place in it? Is the yeast weak? Who then loosens the dough like that? I don't understand anything about this at all.

I have eternal leaven. And all processes take place 2 times slower. For sourdough, I use Garnets whole grain rye flour. It takes me a day to get up the dough as everyone writes (to increase in volume by 2 times). For the dough, I used 50% flour of the 2nd grade and whole-grain flour French Thing. And the time for raising the dough by one and a half times passes again almost a day. The leaven is already over 2 weeks old. The temperature regime seems to be correct. Dough - 27 degrees. The dough is 30 degrees. Previously, I sinned on water (I used water through an osmosis filter), but recently I just took sediment water from the water supply. Maybe it's the flour? Tell me the exact names of the flour that you, dear members of the forum, use in order for your 100% ferment to rise 3 times in volume.

Admin, all questions to you. I would also like to receive an answer.

[Markusy]

Why sourdough bread is so fast
stale?
And by leaps and bounds - no.

Markusy, so that someone could answer your question, please describe the composition of your sourdough and yeast bread. I bake only rye custard bread with sourdough and it does not get stale for a very long time.

Tell me the exact names of the flour that you, dear members of the forum, use in order for your 100% ferment to rise 3 times in volume.

For five years now I have been conducting my sourdough on Garnets rye wholemeal flour. At some point, Garnets disappeared from the available stores and I switched to whole-grain rye Pudov. The sourdough didn't mind, but I like the bread better on Garnets, so I returned to it. True, when I was breeding my leaven, I bought some expensive German rye whole grain flour and used it until it ran out. I don't remember the name anymore.

For five years now I have been conducting my sourdough on Garnets rye wholemeal flour.
[/ quote]

Thank you for the answer. And what kind of bread do you prefer to bake with this flour and how much dough and dough do you have?

Sveta, I gave a recipe for rye sourdough dough.
It should be in the forum. Darnitsa bread.
Today I baked spelled bread on rye sourdough,
just the rye flour is over. I don't think he will
harden.
We have the flour of an Israeli firm, but I don't know from which country.

Probably, after all, flour is the main ingredient.Can anyone tell me how sourdough reacts to cellegrain flour François Thing?

How does the sourdough react to the whole grain flour François stuff?

She didn't like raisin sourdough. Kefirnaya eats with pleasure. But, she likes Nekrasovskaya general purpose more.

And what kind of bread do you prefer to bake with this flour and how much dough and dough do you have?

I only bake rye breads with sourdough. Moreover, people like Darnitsky in our family do not like, therefore, only custard. There are quite a few recipes for such bread here, for example:

1939 Rye Custard Bread (dogsertan)

Brewed coriander bread (oven) (AXIOMA)

Rye custard bread "Spicy" (Linadoc)

But our favorite is this one:

Borodino bread according to the recipe of 1939 (Mikulishna)

According to this recipe, the timing is as follows:
Dough ripens for 3 hours, dough - 1.5-2 hours and then another 40 minutes after molding.
Basically, this is the same as the time indicated by the author of the recipe.
But your starter culture is still very young and will last longer.

Hello, I'm new to this business, I've made bread with sourdough just a couple of times, I'm interested in the question of storing the sourdough: can it be constantly stored in the same container or periodically should it be changed to a new clean one?

But your starter culture is still very young, it will last longer.

Thank you very much for your answer. Could you remember how long it took when the leaven began to raise the dough in three hours? As I wrote, my dough probably doubles in 20 hours. Did you have the same at first?



After reading your recipe "Borodino bread according to the recipe of 1939" I saw that yeast is still used there. And in the picture, it is the most airy compared to the rest in which yeast is not used. It turns out that it is impossible to completely abandon fast-acting yeast? Otherwise, the bread turns out to be more compressed and harder.

[solomein]

As I wrote, my dough probably doubles in 20 hours. Did you have the same at first?

In the beginning, when my sourdough was still very young, I baked brown bread without sourdough. It rose from me nearly twice in the heat in 8 hours and it turned out to be very heavy and dense. I switched to recipes for dough when my sourdough was already 9 months old and then it raised dough in 4 hours for 4. Now it happens faster.
And also keep in mind - the fermentation of the dough occurs at 30 degrees, or even higher. And at what temperature does the dough cost for 20 hours? And the rise time also depends on the consistency, maybe you have a thick dough?

It turns out that it is impossible to completely abandon fast-acting yeast? Otherwise, the bread turns out to be more compressed and harder.

In fact, this recipe works great without industrial yeast. If you paid attention, the dough ferments exclusively with sourdough, and yeast is added to the main dough. They speed up the process somewhat and make it more predictable in time. In addition, Borodino bread should not be very sour, it tastes rather sweet, and prolonged fermentation of the sourdough leads to an excessive accumulation of acid.
But the porosity, according to my observations, depends more on the activity of the leaven. I bake this bread regularly, I weigh all the ingredients on a scale, and still it is different every time - it is denser, then more porous, but I always put the same amount of yeast. But the leaven can have a different "mood".

I am interested in the question of storing the starter culture: can it be permanently stored in the same container or periodically should it be changed to a new clean one?

solomein, an interesting question, somehow I did not think about it. My starter lives in a fridge in a small jar. For feeding, I transfer it to a larger dish, my jar. Then I bake bread with sourdough, and put a piece in a clean jar. Maybe you somehow lead the leaven in a different way, without shifting ...

Sveta, thank you very much! Of course, I didn't think we had winter
and without heating. Therefore, rye leaven is more difficult to grow.
The heat begins and it will be faster and higher.
And I used yeast at first, now it is not necessary.



Sveta, what can replace malt?
We do not have it.

Can anyone help with the leaven? I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong. It seems that I do everything according to the recipe, but on the 2nd day mold constantly appears on top of the leaven. Until the 3rd day I can not grow in any way. Maybe someone knows what is the reason. The sourdough was made from various types of flour. I tried everything.

what can replace malt?

leavened wort

Thank you for your answer, but kvass is not produced in the country.
We have juices.

I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong. I seem to do everything according to the recipe

What recipe do you use, what sourdough do you want to grow?

I have a raisin rye sourdough.
But I bake without malt, since it is not in
shops and no kvass wort.
And I would like to bake bread according to the recipes that I saw
on the previous sheet.
What can replace malt or kvass wort?

[Anna]

Anna, "Rye" tips from Gash # 7

[Anna]

Anna, here the girls were talking

where to buy in Israel nitrite salt, sausage casings and malt . The store is called בירדי

here
Israel # 1261

You can knock in a personal or ask a topic
It seems to be a shop

🔗לתת.html

And also keep in mind - the fermentation of the dough occurs at 30 degrees, or even higher. And at what temperature does the dough cost for 20 hours? And the rise time also depends on the consistency, maybe you have a thick dough?

Dear Svetlana. Today I backed off to make bread on dough. Once again I had to throw it in the trash. This time the dough rose for about 12 hours and increased in volume only one and a half times. I had it on the heated towel rail on a rag folded in several layers so that the dough would not overheat. The dough matured for 6 hours at a temperature of 37 degrees. but clearly not ripe as it blew the roof off. The bread turned out to be very sour and very dense. Maybe leave the dough in the refrigerator for, say, a couple of days to stop the development of lactic acid bacteria? Do I have a temperature of 11 degrees in my fridge?

The dough matured for 6 hours at a temperature of 37 degrees.

37 is a lot for yeast

[Alex-M]

Alex-Mit looks like your sourdough is skewed towards lactic acid bacteria. And yeast is not enough. Therefore, the rise is small, but a lot of acid accumulates.

Maybe leave the dough in the refrigerator for, say, a couple of days to stop the development of lactic acid bacteria? Do I have a temperature of 11 degrees in my fridge?

I may be wrong, but in my opinion, lactic acid ones feel better in the refrigerator, and yeast is inhibited. So I'm afraid this technique won't help you.
It is necessary to straighten the leaven, otherwise no dancing with tambourines over the dough will make sense.
I don't know exactly how to do it, but I would proceed like this:
When feeding, the starter culture would add a dash of industrial yeast. As far as I understand, they are not competitors to wild yeast, they will quickly die, but they will have time to shift the biological balance to the yeast side.
And I would have carried out several dressings once a day without putting the leaven in the refrigerator.
This tactic helped me when my sourdough had to sit hungry for three weeks in the refrigerator and it became too sour and weak.
Or not to suffer, buy another flour and stir up a new leaven, perhaps the processes in it will go differently, this is a lottery.

I may be wrong, but in my opinion, lactic acid ones feel better in the refrigerator, and yeast is inhibited.

it seems to me, on the contrary, MK are very thermophilic
and, say, my leaven in the fridge is completely sad

37 is a lot for yeast

Yes, no, it's ok, especially for the leaven. Faster recovery means less acid build-up.
It's just that we usually don't do this for yeast dough, so that the rise takes longer and more flavoring substances accumulate, then the bread will be tastier.

Dear Svetlana. Thanks for the advice with industrial yeast. I will definitely try.

my leaven in the fridge is completely sad

That's right, yeast and sad. They are also responsible for the rise, and microns - for the accumulation of acid.

Quote: Newbie from Today at 08:42 AM
37 is a lot for yeast
Yes, no, it's ok, especially for the leaven. Faster recovery means less acid build-up.

Perhaps this is still not correct. I draw this conclusion on the basis of the preparation of yogurt, which is done at 40 degrees. As far as I understand, it is at this temperature that lactic acid bacteria develop the fastest.

Perhaps this is still not correct. I draw this conclusion based on the preparation of yogurt, which is made at 40 degrees. As far as I understand, it is at this temperature that lactic acid bacteria develop the fastest.

I agree, MK is comfortable, and yeast is inhibited, the optimal T for yeast is not higher than 28-30

That's right, yeast and sad. They are also responsible for the rise, and microns - for the accumulation of acid.

and interestingly, prom. I store the yeast in the freezer, they feel great, and I threw the excess yeast into the freezer - I did not survive

Guys, it is clear that both MK and yeast are inhibited in the refrigerator. But yeast tolerates prolonged cooling worse. It is also clear that in warmth, both of them develop faster. But it takes at least 6 hours to make MK yogurt at 40 degrees, and yeast takes 30 minutes to raise the dough at 40 degrees.
When the leaven works, we need it to raise the dough. That is, we are mainly interested in the activity of yeast. We need MC mainly to acidify the environment, which in turn makes the life of the yeast more comfortable. Therefore, we need to try to do well with the yeast, and with MK how it goes. They are still more tenacious.

prom. I store the yeast in the freezer, they feel great, and I threw the excess yeast into the freezer - I did not survive

Freezing is a shock to any yeast. But a briquette of industrial yeast contains very little free water, so large ice crystals do not form in the freezer. And in the leaven of water - half, the crystals break the cells of the yeast and MC and they die.
If you want to keep the starter, dry it.

If you want to keep the starter, dry it.

Thanks for clarifying
yeah, now just dry

[Kefir sourdough by Admin]

For me, so these)))

But then I did not know about Kefir sourdough by Admin
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=1068.0
The simplest leaven. Thermonuclear !!!! And sooooo simple

The dough matured for 6 hours at a temperature of 37 degrees

What for? Everything warms up and matures perfectly at room T. I have 21.
And then. For a long time I read in Lyudmila's blog that there is no need to create high T. Bread will be crumbly. Since then, I have not even kept the leaven and dough except in the withers or on the table. Well, baking)))

If you want to keep the starter, dry it.

but I did not like to dry. Nope, not that.

but I did not like to dry. Nope, not that.

but as?

but as?

what how? No surplus, everything is in bread or buns))) I give)))
Rye sourdough is great in the refrigerator, and for a long time. As it stood for three months.
So she started Kefirnaya https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=1068.0to quickly have the leaven.

I didn't like drying.

I also lead, I do not dry. But you never know what. If you dry it, there is a chance to preserve the sourdough, and if you freeze it, there is practically no chance.

[Svetlana]

If you dry - there is a chance to preserve the leaven

Svetlana, Rye kvass was made in the villages. Usually in the summer. In the fall, they poured the thick kvass into a saucepan or jar and put it in the cellar.
This thick is the leaven. They also baked bread on it.
Yes, it became like vinegar, settled. But then it was revived and used perfectly.
So no one bothers us to keep a piece of sourdough in the refrigerator in a jar.

But then I did not know about Kefir sourdough from Admin
#
The simplest leaven. Thermonuclear !!!! And sooooo simple

Please tell me how you did it? Did they take milk and sour it, and then use it for sourdough? What kind of flour did you use? During how long did it (leaven) double in volume? Did you put dough without yeast on it? At what temperature did the dough rise and how long did it take?

[Alex-M]

Alex-M, here
Lactic Sour Culture by Admin # 543
There is a reference to the beginning, i.e. Kefir leaven
Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Did they take milk and sour it, and then use it for sourdough?

No, just old kefir. He stood in the hall for a long time. I use Mu-mu. Short shelf life.

What kind of flour did you use?

I have a general purpose wheat Nekrasovskaya. Ugly ... but the leaven likes

during what time did it double in volume?

Oh ... less than a day. I told everything there

Did you put dough without yeast on it?

No yeast at all. Only this leaven

At what temperature did the dough rise and how long did it take?

Room T. On the table. Approximately 21 degrees.

how did you do it?

I mixed old kefir and flour. Honestly, by eye, by consistency. And the process started ...




Admin has everything in great detail. That is, you need to read, understand. Although there is no photo, everything is explained in stages.
I even add it to yeast bread, reducing the amount of yeast.
The husband does not like the starter loaf. But I attach the leaven

Dear Svetlana. Thanks for the advice with industrial yeast. I will definitely try.

Good afternoon, Svetlana, and a happy victory for you. With yeast, an amazing effect turned out. I poured a pinch of dry instant yeast into my starter and it became so active. This is the third time I have renewed the leaven. First, I throw out about 2/3 of the old (doubled) sourdough and add the same weight of kefir (from the old sour milk), i.e. add 30 grams of sour milk to 30 grams of the remaining sourdough), and flour (I have whole grain rye Granets) slightly less (20-22 grams) so that the leaven is not very thick. Such a new starter culture increases in volume in about 4-5 hours at room temperature (I have 23 degrees at home). I really want to try baking bread. I'm wondering how long it takes for industrial yeast to die, giving way to wild yeast?