Starter cultures - in questions and answers

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, in my opinion, the batter still gives such an unbaked crumb. If you say the dough was made thicker and the problem did not disappear, then you need to look inside and out. How to feed, what recipe, baking time and temperature. Ask the girl who used the recipe for the flour. Try to repeat on her flour, maybe your flour moisture is different or the flour quality is lower

in my experience, this is a hopeless option (it will not be possible to repeat exactly the same, besides, she does not get in touch ... now I would like to deal with the leaven - how to find out if it is good or needs to change something

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, have you tried the rye sourdough?

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, have you tried the rye sourdough?

3 years ago I had a classic rye sourdough, thicker than this one, with bubbles, did not sink (unlike this one), but the crumb was even worse, now it is at least edible, but then through time

[Zhenya]

Zhenyaif it smells good, the bread picks up quickly, it seems to me that everything is all right with her.
I would overfeed some in 100% moisture and test it on other recipes. Or would bring out a new one. It's not as hard as it sounds

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, I got rye sourdough on the second try. I didn't like bread at the first. The second turned out to be completely different - it grows quickly, the bread is delicious, just the way you wanted. The crumb is not raw. I bake a recipe from this site - universal in a bread maker.
Try making a new starter.

[Zhenya]

Zhenyaif it smells good, the bread picks up quickly, it seems to me that everything is all right with her.
I would overfeed some in 100% moisture and test it on other recipes. Or would bring out a new one. It's not as hard as it sounds

well, she does not pick up very quickly - in 8 hours ... I'll try to overfeed, thanks)

Added on Friday 01 Apr 2016 4:05 PM

Zhenya, I got rye sourdough on the second try.

can you link to the recipe for the leaven? thank you in advance)

[Zhenya]

ZhenyaIt is forbidden to insert links for beginners, unfortunately! Even to this forum!
Try a search on this forum - rye sourdough, the most beloved and obedient. by Admin.
Only I didn't have whole grain rye, I did it on peeled one.
It also depends on flour. I made the first and second leavens on different basis. The second came out better.

[Zhenya]

Zhenya, I would also advise to transfer the leaven to 100% moisture, and, for me, for example, it does not matter whether it is wheat or rye. Wheat even for me is preferable, because sometimes I also bake white bread with sourdough, but I don't bake pure rye, that is, there is always at least a little wheat flour in my baked goods, but rye is not always. Therefore, I am running 100% whey.
At the same time, remember that the proportions must be observed not by volume, but by weight, that is, the moisture content of the starter culture is 100%, not a glass of flour and a glass of liquid, but 100g of flour and 100g of liquid.
In addition, it would be useful to read the entire a branch about sourdough pastries... After all, you have already seen that it is not very successful to solve the problem with a cavalry swoop.
There you can also choose to start with a simple recipe, in which there are no dark spots, which is illuminated in detail from all sides and has been tested by many, in order to master the practice in parallel with comprehending science.
Good luck!

Thank you very much! I tried to cook with dough - the result is already better) from recipes my head is dizzy and from recipes like "238 g of sourdough + 111 g of water ..." generally a panic attack. : "the same amount of spoons of yeast, a glass of water, flour to some consistency, leave until it rises so and so ..."

Oh, Zhenechka, here most of the recipes are in weight, not in volume.
Buy a kitchen scale and you will be happy! This, by the way, is more convenient. And how will you conduct 100% leaven without scales?
Dough in general, and bread in particular - this is science - does not like approximations.
But when you develop a sense of it, then the scales will no longer be needed.
By the way, I hope your spoons are measured, not tablespoons?

there are kitchen scales, but they do not add happiness, I take them out with reluctance, but here the process should be a pleasure - for this you need freedom of creativity, even without a guaranteed result ... here is such a dilemma with yeast dough I have long been "on you" and rebuilt "on you" with starter culture does not work (

I usually go through classical school, and then I go on a creative flight
However, everyone has their own methods.
Good luck!

[Olga]

Olga, agree! It would be nice to fill your hand, then experiment

Good evening, dear forum users, leavers. I corrected the last post, since I myself figured out the past questions. But new ones appeared. Please help me figure it out. I've been reading forums for a week now. The head is swollen. Thoughts were confused. In short, there is a leaven in my head))). My lactic acid starter culture according to Admin recipe costs 4 cycles (1 cycle - 3 dressings). I put the starter culture on rye wallpaper flour and curd whey. I feed the same. It grows beautifully.
For example, I take 300 grams from the raised sourdough on the third day and into the dough. In the remainder, for example, 50 gr. I added 50 grams of flour and the same amount of whey. The leaven rises well. On the third day, I again take 300 grams from her and add flour and whey again. And so it is constantly. Some kind of conveyor turns out.
My leaven is worth it and does not ripen in the refrigerator. The room now has a temperature of 20-22 degrees. Can you keep her like that? And on the third day before baking, I stand the dough in the shower stall, after letting in a couple, the temperature there is 28-30 degrees. Can you do this? It seems to me that the dough fits faster this way.
I bake something about once every three days. I don’t understand if it makes sense, for me personally, to keep the leaven in the refrigerator? If it makes sense or should be kept in the refrigerator at all, then please help me please help me develop an algorithm in my case when using MK leaven every three days, I myself can not, still quite a beginner.
I also read that the leaven should be given rest. I don't understand how and how often? Don't feed her at all? And where to store it again. And most importantly, I forgot to write. In my refrigerator there are no shelves with a temperature of 10-12 °, all shelves are at a temperature. below. This is the problem. Thank you all for your replies, but please do not send me to the forums. I've already read everything here and on the Admin forum. The more I read, the more confusion.

[Nemosha]

Nemosha, your arithmetic does not converge for me:

In the remainder, for example, 50 gr. I added 50 grams of flour and the same amount of whey ... On the third day I again take 300 grams from it

Where do you get 300g, and even 50g remains? Or do you add 100g each day for 3 days, and then take a sourdough for baking? If so, then you have everything in balance.
But I probably would be gemorno to do this every day.
I have 150-200 g of sourdough constantly stored in the refrigerator door (about 9-10 * there), and I remember it only when I am going to bake it, that is, I can not remember it for 2 weeks. It's more comfortable for me. I feed it directly at the time of kneading the dough, select 150-200g for the next case, put it in the refrigerator and so on until the next time.
I have wheat sourdough on whey of 100% moisture.

Olga, good afternoon, that's exactly what I'm doing, I take 50 grams. sourdough and add 50 grams of flour and 50 grams of whey there, and I do this for three days, as a result, 350 grams of sourdough comes out on the third day. All converge))
Regarding storage in the refrigerator, I'm just afraid that it will lose its strength in my case, it will not raise the dough. That is, it turns out that you do nothing with it during storage in the refrigerator?
It is necessary to try it, I just put on the remains of rye sourdough one more sourdough, which I will feed with wheat flour, it is necessary to conduct an experiment on it))) Thank you!

[Nemosha]

Nemosha, sorry, I read only 2 of your last posts, we will dance from them
Your sourdough is mk-rye from Admin, its quality-lifting force suits you, you bake bread every 3 days, there is no extra for throwing away ...
So what's the problem? You are fine if you summarize your posts
Why do you need a refrigerator? Because of the summer ahead? How about in an air-conditioned room?
Has the temperature of 20-22 C still had a negative effect on the leaven? Does it smell normal for your taste?
And what kind of bread do you bake with this leaven? rye and mixed?

Yes, while standing in the refrigerator, I forget about it.And when I'm going to bake, then either in the evening I feed 1: 1 and put it back in the refrigerator for 10-12-14 hours, or on the day of baking I mix all the starter with wheat flour available in the recipe and with whey, if I bake with whey, then I set aside the leaven, put it in the refrigerator, leave the rest at room temperature to warm up and begin to stir, and then on this rest I further knead the dough.

Nagira, of course, everything turns out more or less thoughtfully, but I would howl for years every day to do leaven

[Olga]

Olga, because she often bakes, and feeds 1 time a day, it's not difficult
When the question arises about throwing away excess leaven, then ...
I bake once a week, my sourdough lives in the refrigerator, BUT - I have 11-12 degrees on the top shelf.
I believe that if you mess around with the sourdough, then you should take the maximum benefit, so that the lactic acid bacteria we need live and flourish and give a taste-aroma to our bread, and below 10C yeast will prevail in the sourdough

[Nagira]

Nagira, thanks for the answer. There is no air conditioner. But the bathroom is cool in summer, about 22 degrees, I'll keep it there. But with the rise of the dough ... I have a suspicion that something is wrong. It was too long for the bread to fit, about four hours, like wheat on this leaven, like rye. Some members of the forum write that for two hours and their dough has risen. I distribute the bread in the shower stall, let the steam in there, I see that the temperature is 28-30 degrees. And that's how it rises from me. Maybe I’m raising bread in vain, maybe there is a lot of moisture in the air? It's just that it's cold in the apartment, our communal services have already cut off the heating. I cannot think of other options for how to provide such a temperature.
And another question, if I make wheat bread on this leaven, it sour. I’m thinking either because of the fact that it stops when raised, or simply because of the fact that it’s on the serum. What do you think? Thanks for the advice! This is how my sourdough looks like on the second day, 8 hours after feeding. She's all perforated. Sorry for the quality of the photo, I took a photo from the tablet

[Nemosha]

Nemosha, you have a good leaven, so active

But with the rise of the dough ... I have a suspicion that something is wrong. It was too long for the bread to come up, about four hours, like wheat on this sourdough, like rye.

Quite a normal algorithm for rye sourdough
Even twice the last proofing takes place, especially while the leaven is gaining strength.
And already 4 hours for a rye starter culture is within the normal range!
About shower-moisture-temperature - also as it should, do not worry
But about wheat bread with this sourdough, I will say that even overfed with a different flour, it will give sourness
It is clear that it is not easy to conduct two leavens at the same time - both for rye and for wheat.
But my white bread with sourness categorically refused to eat and I had to look for a way out.
In 2011. discovered a wonderful leaven, which impressed everyone in the household. I use it for wheat bread. In the course of growing and studying this leaven, I found out that it lives well at 10-12 C in the refrigerator for about a week without feeding, just as I need it (I bake once a week). During its cultivation, I get a lot of positive emotions from the aroma and color, but the only thing is to start it in the fall, when the local grapes ripen. You can look here - Pane al Mosto - Bread with grape must and Vendemic sourdough from dough on grape must
PS What is your name?

My name is Maria. Thanks for the praise, I'm really pleased. I am a green sourdough, so to speak, and when more experienced people appreciate your efforts, it is very pleasant to realize that your efforts are not in vain. Thanks for the link, I will study it, although, again, my refrigerator will not allow me to store this leaven either, I don’t even know, I need to read the instructions for the refrigerator, maybe you can turn something at a high temperature.

[Maria]

Maria, nice to meet you!
It would be nice for you to agree with the refrigerator
In 2009, when I first started breeding sourdoughs, I had a very old refrigerator, after moving from another city, I inherited it from my mother-in-law - Orsk, 1982. You understand, the regulator is antediluvian, but I somehow managed to set T so that it was 11-12C below - both for long-playing gingerbread dough and for sourdoughs (almost the same range).
And in the new LG a 5-step programmer, on the middle 3 - just gives 12 C on the warmest shelf.

I am making this report - suddenly someone is interested in the solution to the problem.

In order to upload pictures to the forum I wanted to make not only delicious, but also beautiful bread - somehow it did not work out. It was delicious, but not so beautiful to show

In general, I had such a problem:

I start making bread with sourdough - the dough increases 2.5 - 3 times in 5 hours. That is, the leaven seems to be good and works.
But when I make dough on this dough, it rises for more than 10 hours and then does not rise to the end - the bread turns out to be dense.

In general, it turned out that the dough was a little thicker than necessary.
That is, he increased the amount of water and the rate of rise of the dough increased and the dough began to rise in 2.5 - 3 hours

[questions]

Good day everyone! I am a newbie, join the ranks of the bakers
Admin, thanks for the whey starter recipe! Now I drink serum instead of tea, another "pregnant" whim ...
My story with homemade bread began with a donated HP - bread with store-bought dry yeast according to recipes from the manual to HP. A couple of times, or even more, I fed the chickens with unsuccessful bread, well, okay, but the testicles are on the table)))
And now I wanted healthy bread for the family. I grew the starter culture on raisins, transferred it to whey. I bake bread in the oven in a frying pan set in a cauldron with a lid. Sometimes in a bread maker. The bread rises, is baked, what else is needed for happiness at the beginning of the journey ...
I have a pair questions: is it possible to store the starter culture and how not in the refrigerator? Does it need to be refrigerated? isn't it harmful for MK bacteria? I feed it once a day with water or whey (which is at hand) and whole grain wheat or rye flour. I don’t verify in grams, somehow everything is by sight, the leaven is alive, thank God)))
I just remember how as a child my mother baked bread and kept the rest of the dough in a bucket (somewhere on the shelf, not in the refrigerator), covered with a towel. I remembered the bucket only before baking bread. I understand that it was not leaven, but just the rest of the dough? All in doubt, how less labor-intensive to bake bread. A growing tummy, a three-year-old all day with her "mom!", A vegetable garden, chickens, a hungry husband and now a STARK ... I would not want to lose her. Constantly feed? send to the refrigerator? turn it into a dough in a bucket and not think about it until the next baking? I bake every 2-3 days. Help with advice, please !!!

[Catherine]

Catherine, welcome to the forum!
Your mom used to bake bread with old dough. The site has recipes for such bread.
If you bake bread every 2-3 days, then perhaps this is your best option. This dough can be kept cold and taken out 2 hours before kneading.
As for your starter culture, while you still have little experience, I would recommend keeping it not by eye, but precisely, with the help of scales, since all further manipulations with the dough depend on the moisture content of the starter culture. In addition, it makes sense to introduce either wheat or rye leaven. And if you translate one into another, then not suddenly, but gradually, in several stages. And either fermented milk or water.
And when you already understand everything about different types of leaven, then you can start experiments.
By the way, you can also remove sourdough from the old dough.
I use wheat 100% moisture on whey, for me it is the most versatile.
I keep it in the refrigerator, sometimes I don’t remember it for 2-3 weeks, I don’t feed it. The flight is normal.

[Olga VB]

Olga VB, thanks for the answer! And then there was a little porridge in my head ... I decided to introduce rye sourdough on whey. And I'll put it in the refrigerator if I don't bake for a long time. While on the shelf is in a jar covered with a towel.And I will try to weigh the top dressing delicious bread for everyone! I'm trying to insert a photo of malt and wheat-rye bread. For some reason, the top of the malt was peeled ... She put both on the dough, kneaded by the assistant-bread maker, defrosted it on a sunny windowsill and baked it in KP, the wheat was brown in the oven. I'm waiting for the trial😊

[Catherine]

I'm waiting for the trial😊

The most important judges are our household members, they are also the eaters of our experiments. If they eat it willingly and quickly - the highest praise.

Added Friday 03 Jun 2016 02:35 PM

Catherine, and your bread

[Albina]

Albina, Thank you! My daughter is 3 years old, I didn’t eat store-bought bread before, but I didn’t eat the first homemade one from KhP 😊 And yesterday a neighbor came for sourdough after I treated her to one of the first experiments in bread with sourdough. My dear husband is very calm about my exploits, he eats as if it should be so 😊 my experience is very modest, recipes too, and my family and friends are happy, so this is inspiring! I will study further😊

Good day, Bakers! I am a beginner but thanks to your advice I managed to grow a sourdough culture !!! HURRAH! I want to try to bake bread, I found recipes - on the site, read it and was very surprised ... Answer me unreasonable - why is the addition of YEAST indicated in the recipes, in addition to sourdough, I thought that SQUARE replaces YEAST ??? or not?...

At first, the leaven is weak, not strong. Therefore, yeast is put in for a faster raising of the dough. But then, when the leaven becomes stronger, then you can no longer put the yeast.

[Albina]

Albina, thanks for the answer! Now it is clear to me, it is clear why the lid of my bread failed during baking ... I took a risk - baked Borodinsky without yeast. delicious bread! MMMM! Even my Koteiko-gourmet appreciated - he pulled off a piece of bread and ate it without a trace!

Good day everyone! please help with advice. I was entrusted with the leaven, brought it out recently, baked bread several times. They said that every day she needs to be fed, removing part of the old one. It was wonderful, porous, it smelled like a green apple - a leaven on rye flour. But the day before yesterday I forgot to separate it and add flour and water. As a result, I missed one day, and only in the evening of the next day I came to my senses and fed her. It was covered with a thick crust and smelled bad, it was clear that it was over-acidified ((((. I didn’t recognize her last night; nothing has changed - the same raid. All this means that I spoiled it How to reanimate it, help. I will not be forgiven for this (((

Try to remove this crust and plaque first, perhaps everything will remain clean, and then try to feed.
But it is probably better to start a new leaven, especially since it was already young.
Although, of course, it's strange that your sourdough deteriorated so bad in 1 day. I have sourdough in the refrigerator sometimes for 2 weeks without any manipulation - from bread to bread, and nothing happens to it.

Thanks for the help, I removed the crust immediately. I don't have sourdough in the refrigerator, they keep it in the kitchen. If I could, I would start a new one. But there is no time, the owner will come on the weekend, and my leaven has died ((((

[Ayuna]

Ayuna, we have a lot of starter recipes on the forum.
What was yours? That is, what flour, what liquid and in what proportions did you use?
You can start a new starter in exactly the same way, after a couple of days it will be almost the same as the one you ruined.
In addition, some who cannot grow sourdough in any way use old dough, that is, the dough, originally made with a small amount of yeast, is then led as a sourdough.

I am making this report - suddenly someone is interested in the solution to the problem.

Thank you. took notes.

Added Wednesday, 02 Nov 2016 5:17 pm

Hello, members of the forum!
I got confused about baking wheat bread, more precisely, using the sponge and safety method.What is the difference / meaning when needed and when not? I shoveled about 50 pages on the site and on the forum, but I still did not find the answer to my question. Tell me please, otherwise the more I read, the more mess in my head

[qwertyvs]

qwertyvs, you here... There you can ask questions in this thread, as well as look at the whole branch.

Thank you. I'm from there.

[qwertyvs]

I got confused about baking wheat bread, more precisely, using the sponge and safety method. What is the difference / meaning when needed and when not?

qwertyvs, if you bake with yeast, then the dough lengthens the fermentation time, and this improves the taste and aroma of the bread. But if you bake with sourdough, then it is she who will give the bread this very taste and aroma, so it seems you can do without sourdough. In addition, the longer sourdough bread ferments, the more likely it will sour, which is undesirable for wheat bread.
At the same time, if you use whole grain flour or add rye, flaxseed, etc., then this makes the bread heavier, and the sponge method will allow you to get a fluffy crumb.
But these are very general considerations. There are many recipes with and without dough, and they all work.
I would advise you to try to get into practice. Here on the forum there are great authors of sourdough breads, for example ang-kay, she has great recipes, look, choose and bake for health!

thanks for the direct answer!

Hello. Help me please. Set to make eternal hop leaven on rye flour. It is necessary to grow 5 days. Today is the 3rd. In the morning I fed it, after 2-3 hours it increased threefold, to the top of the can of 2 liters. Stirred, after a couple of hours it is full again. I have mixed it several times. What to do? Put in a large bowl, remove half of it or is it ready, can you use it? The smell is sour, pleasant. I can't insert photos from my phone.

You can take some of this sourdough and use it for baking. Perhaps the dough will sour a little, but this will go away with age.
Another part can be overfed into wheat, because wheat is suitable for almost any baking, including for a mixture with any other flour, including rye, and rye is irreplaceable only for 100% rye.
Do not rush to feed the remaining sourdough - only when it begins to settle by itself, that is, it will eat everything that you fed it earlier.
Regularly, 150-200 g of sourdough will be enough for you.
What is your humidity?
Even now, for example, you can make a dough of the same moisture according to some recipe using all your starter culture, so that in total it turns out to be 150-200 g more than the recipe needs. Then take away these 150-200 g, no longer feed, leave for further ripening. This will be your starter for next time.
And in the rest of the dough, add everything you need according to the recipe and put it to bake (after ripening).
Just remember that sourdough dough usually ripens 2-3 times longer than yeast dough.
Good luck!

Humidity of the starter or in the house?
While I transferred it to a large jar, put it in a cup and left it until morning.

Posted Monday 21 Nov 2016 5:53 PM

Sourdough 100%

100%, I see.
Try to bake something already.
If you want, pick a recipe for yourself to try, and I'll write you how to implement it. The bread will be ready just in the night
And the sourdough is grown, usually, throwing away part before feeding, otherwise no container will be enough

Olga, when your answer came, we already had a night, so I saw it only in the morning!
I'll try to throw out some of it, and grow the rest further. I read from Admin that how much with sourdough, which boiled early, normal bread may not work, so I will endure two days with baking

Your business, of course, but I would try if I throw it away anyway, and it's interesting!
Good luck!

Now the leaven doesn't riot so much. Today is the fifth day, the last one. In the morning I fed, it doubled in 3 hours. It is written that on the sixth day you can bake bread in the morning. But...she's awfully sour! I'm afraid the bread will be sour too. What to do?
Before that, I also did eternal, but not on hops, but on water. The bread was also very sour. So it baked, several times, no one wanted to eat, I had to throw it out. I don't want the same thing again.

Of course, everyone has their own concept of "sour". In any case, it's hard to assess from a distance.
Does it smell okay? Does it smell like alcohol, lactic acid or acetone?
Try to make a dough for 50g of sourdough and bake something. Or take the whole starter dough if you have a lot of it.
By the way, how much leaven do you have now?
It is difficult to navigate if you do not know how you raised it, when and how much you added, in what conditions you kept it ...
Maybe you should try to understand the topic of the corresponding leaven?

Olga, nobody answers the topic of this leaven. I took 20g in the evening. sourdough, added 120 grams of flour and 120 grams of water. During the night it rose very well, 2.5 times. Now I will put on the bread.
And the leaven is now about a liter, a little more. I will recycle!