Starter cultures - in questions and answers

I want to overfeed rye sourdough in wheat. Tell me how to do it? I took a teaspoon of starter, fed 15 g of water and 15 g of wheat flour in the evening, this morning I added flour and water, 50 grams each. How many times should you feed at what intervals? And when can you bake bread? Thank you.

Girls, Admin ... Prompt
I took the rye sourdough out of the refrigerator, warmed it at room temperature, fed it 100 to 100 and waited for the result. It has not risen but there are bubbles and it smells like apples. After reading this topic, I realized that I have a large volume and did as Admin advised: I put 50 grams of leaven in a new dish and fed 40 to 60. Now I will watch her for 3 days.
Well, where do I put the rest of the leaven? I have 500 grams of it, it smells so nice, it's a pity to throw it out, can I add sugar to it and she will wake up? or if it does not rise, can you safely throw it away?

Oh!!! My old starter culture after 1 tbsp. l. The sugar has doubled, so it is alive ??
So maybe you can put bread on it today?

Girls craftswomen, help with advice !!!!
I fed my sourdough and it increased even more and I decided to make bread on it.
Here's what happened

It seems beauty and not bread, and the roof is intact and tan and smell. But inside another chagrin: ((((((

loose wet, what have I done wrong?

Tell me, please, if I bake sourdough bread according to a yeast recipe, in what proportions should I replace yeast with sourdough? If, for example, I pour 200 g of sourdough instead of yeast, then how much flour should be added so that it does not turn out too liquid (the sourdough is more liquid).

in what proportions to replace yeast with sourdough?

There are no clear proportions here. Some take 200 g, some 100, and some 300. For example, I try to take so much leaven that it contains half of the flour from the recipe or a third. Less, but not more.
If the recipe contains, say, 500 g of flour and 300 g of water, then I can take 500 g of sourdough (that's 250 flour and 250 water) and add 250 flour and 50 water. If I take 400 g of sourdough, then I add 300 g of flour and 100 g of water. The proving time will depend on the amount of leaven.
For wheat bread, I have a favorite formula: how much sourdough - so much flour - half the water. Usually it is 400 g of sourdough + 400 g of flour + 200 g of water. But this dough is damp and the bread has big holes. We love that.

[Viki]

Viki, thank you very much! I just want to bake a wheat one with big holes. Do you bake it on rye sourdough or some other?

[Iriskaaa]

I usually take 1/3 - 2/5 of the flour and liquid from the main recipe.
That is, I just throw out the yeast from any bread recipe and knead it with sourdough.
Further, only the ripening time of the dough depends on this amount: the less sourdough, the longer the ripening time. And the result is practically indistinguishable.

Iriskaaa, it seems that your bread is not completely cooled down when you cut itawhether.
He's not just under a towel after the stove a hundredandt-cools down, it ripens there.
It is difficult to judge from the photo. Perhaps you still have it a little underdone.

bake on rye sourdough

Wheat. I take a spoon - two and feed 200 g of water and flour overnight. From 200 g of flour 100 or 1 grade or whole grain. And in the morning I start to "create".

Thanks for the answers. I have one more question about storing the leaven. Mine was warm and did not boil too much, a week later I put her in the refrigerator so as not to sour, her life there still slowed down, but how can I cook on it now? If I bake every other day, should I get it in advance, warm it up, feed it? And do you need to put it in the refrigerator if you bake every other day, or even every day?

Girls, help! For the first time I was given bread leaven. The hostess described in detail how to bake bread out of it. Here are her instructions: Take the starter out of the refrigerator, let it stand at room temperature for 2-3 hours. Then add water and rye flour to it, mix everything, do not pay attention to the lumps. Cover with a towel and put in a warm place overnight.In the morning add the rest of the flour, salt, sugar (!!!) to this mixture, knead. And from this mass, select a certain amount, which will become the leaven for the next bread. Girls, is it right - to feed the sourdough also with sugar ??? I'm somewhat at a loss ...

is it right - to feed the sourdough also with sugar ???

They are fed with both sugar and honey ... Only practice shows that such leavens do not last long. They quickly lose strength and "fade away".
In the morning I would take some of it, put it in the refrigerator, and add salt, sugar, and flour to the rest. You decide. Happy bread!

They are fed with both sugar and honey ... Only practice shows that such leavens do not last long. They quickly lose their strength and "fade away".
In the morning I would take a part, put it in the refrigerator, and add salt, sugar and flour to the rest. You decide. Happy bread!

Thank you!!!

Hello dear forum users! I immediately ask you to excuse me if I suddenly repeat the questions. Now I use mature rye "eternal" sourdough, knead the dough twice in the program, then bake the "cake" program for 60 minutes. X / P LG lifes Good. I don’t really understand the bread because of what, but we need to adjust the recipe. I take out the leaven from the refrigerator and add 1 hour. flour and 1 tsp. water for a few hours go to the top and I take 1.5 cups of sourdough 1 tsp water 2 tsp rye 3 tsp wheat (sunflower oil 3 tbsp. l 3 tbsp. sugar 2 tsp. salt). The bread turns out in a cut like there is nothing but dampness sticks to the teeth, and the hat generally crumbles. Question: 1. Is it possible to make a starter culture on lactobacterin? 2. to take the leaven for kneading the dough at the moment when it climbed to the very top or at the moment when it “won back” and began to fall? 3. In the recipes, the leaven is put in 2-3 tbsp. spoons then 2 cups for almost the same amount of dough. If you can adjust the prescription and answer questions. Thanks for the help.

[Aleksvan]

Aleksvan,
Clarify the point with 2-fold kneading:
does your dough program include proofing before baking? Or just a batch? Sc. on time lasts?

[Aleksvan]

Aleksvan,
Clarify the point with 2-fold kneading:
does your dough program include proofing before baking? Or just a batch? Sc. on time lasts?

1st batch 6 min. 2nd 12 min. then I turn it off and after 10 minutes I repeat (6 and 12 minutes) and leave the dough to come up for four hours, then turn on the "muffin" baking.

[Aleksvan]

Aleksvan,
Clear. It's just that the programs are different in different HP, I have "Dough" - 1.5 hours: 30m kneading, 1 hour - proofing.
2 question - the leaven is taken at the peak of its growth, I know mine and I usually wait for an increase of 3-3.5 times in 2-2.5 hours after "feeding". If your sourdough grows longer, then it will take even more time for the bread dough to rise and it can over-acid ... I read that some girls waited six hours for the sourdough bread to rise. Longer - I have not met. I usually have 2-4 hours depending on the type of starter culture.
Now to your problem: "damp, sticks to the teeth" - so categorically should not be.
The first, which can be assumed - too much moisture in the dough. Do you see any kolobok at the end of the batch? With mixed flour, the rule of kolobok is, of course, not as strict as with wheat, but you still need to try to control the thickness of the dough.
Second - insufficient proofing. The strength of the leaven may differ from host to owner; in fact, this is the answer to your 3 question about the amount of starter bookmarks. Someone needs 3 spoons, but for example, I always take 200-250 grams for 400-500 grams of flour, and the sourdoughs for 5 years of my baking were different and the amount I take is the same.
Proofing time: here it is not necessary to be guided by the clock, but to increase the test by at least 2 times... If the proofing is not enough, the crumb is heavy.

And on my own behalf, I can say (perhaps this is not for all brands I have - Tefal 4002), I don’t like rye and semi-rye from a bread machine - although it doesn’t stick to my teeth, but there is still a feeling of undercooking, although the thermometer shows T of the finished crumb - 96 degrees.
So I hw. and mixed. I bake bread in the oven

Clear. Until you fill your hand yourself. Yes I take sourdough at its peak. But here I ran into such a problem before, after the "feeding", the lid was already torn off, although it was with holes, but yesterday I took it out, it plays the wrong effect for the night, and in the morning I put it according to this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=404495.0... now stands, I'm afraid to look. Dough program 6 min. kneading, 5 min. rest, 12 min. kneading, 40 min. rise, 4 sec forming. Yes, there is a kolobok, that's why I turn on a double kneading cycle to mix well. According to the above recipe, there is no kolobok, the dough is thin.

Here's what happened. Delicious and not crumbly? the bread is what I love. Tell me how to smear the top to make it beautiful? 🔗
🔗

[Aleksvan]

Aleksvan,

Until you fill your hand

- this one for sure
The bread in the photo is good, but the recipe surprised me with too much water for wheat flour ... a bun will not be born ...
And in this regard, I have a natural question: why don't you use more proven recipes? This is very easy to determine (especially for bread topics) - the more pages in the topic (i.e., more answers) - the more people have time to try and love this recipe And the one you refer to - the girl registered here and put the recipe in late December

[Nagira]

Nagira

the girl registered here and posted the recipe at the end of December

It doesn't matter to me when the girl signed up, I liked the recipe for its relative simplicity, which is important to me. She did it well, I still have a little worse, a weak rise. Yes, you are right, I need to reduce the amount of water. Yes, and look through other recipes. Tell me how to spread the crust so that it is beautiful, otherwise the last time I smeared it (yolk + sugar + water) did not work.

Hello! made according to this recipe, 400 gr. rye sourdough, 400 gr. wheat flour, 100 gr. water, after 3 hours the dough practically did not rise, left it overnight (from 22.00 to 07.00). I think you need to add fermented rye malt and get Borodino. Here's what happened, tell me what are the disadvantages? It seems to me that I have some kind of "calm" leaven, but in 3 hours it rose 2 times, the batch was done at the peak. 🔗
🔗

Hello! I have long wanted to try to bake bread with sourdough, but the process of growing the sourdough itself is scary, everything is very complicated. A question for experts: how to feed the starter culture if I work and cannot feed it every 5-6-7 hours? And the house temperature is not higher than 19-20 degrees (no MV)? Help advice

Perhaps the gurus of the sourdough shop will shower me with slippers, but I grow the eternal sourdough with my "left foot" - that is, not simply, but very simply!
I take rye flour and water in a 1: 1 ratio, put it in a cool place without drafts (usually a bathroom) under a loosely closed lid and feed it once a day, leaving 100 g of the mixture and adding 100 g of water + 100 g of flour. I don’t measure the temperature, I don’t always take grams either, I often put it on the eye. That's all, the leaven grows beautifully.
My first sourdough is almost three years old, has sold out to friends and feels great). I myself have never kept her in the refrigerator, I fed her in the morning and evening. The acquaintances to whom I gave them are kept in the refrigerator and are happy.

And the house temperature is not higher than 19-20 degrees (no MV)? Help advice

How to create a temperature of 30 degrees at home for proving the dough?

[Sibelis]

leaving 100 g of the mixture

Sibelis, is it like this every day? Where else? I bake bread 2 times a week, but it's a pity to throw it away, we don't often have rye flour

[Admin]

Admin, thanks, I'll try to put it near the battery, since I'm not at home for 11 hours, and there is no one to heat the pan

is it like this every day?

This is until a mature leaven has grown.
Then you will leave the amount that you need for baking, taking into account the 3-day feeding.
I personally left only on the walls of the dishes in which the leaven lived, everything else went into the dough.

Girls, thanks, I will try. I really want to bake something new

COUNT, while growing the leaven - yes, every day (then you can put it in the refrigerator, it is almost waste-free). Here, many advise not to throw it away, but to feed the entire volume, but I am against it.The fact is that I do not consider a 4-5 day starter culture suitable for use, I give it a couple of weeks to be sure of its composition and lifting power (but this is my personal opinion). And in 2 weeks, if you do not throw anything away, but only add, you will have three kilograms, and you will have to keep in a bucket)). Most importantly, don't think that leaven is difficult. It's much easier than you think.
Now I have a young "animal" growing up, she is 5th day. The first two days she rose well and smelled unpleasant, as she should. The third day did not rise at all, but I still fed on schedule. Now it smells strongly of vinegar and again rises 2.5 times. In general, everything is according to plan, a pleasant fruity aroma will appear soon)).
By the way, I also grew sourdough from premium wheat flour - no problem, I grew up perfectly. Now I keep both wheat and rye at the same time - so as not to waste time on overfeeding.
And about refrigeration ... It's your personal choice. This is certainly more convenient if you don't bake every day. I personally chose to store at room temperature and feed every 12 hours. Cons: flour consumption and discipline (don't forget, don't miss - how to walk a dog). Pros: I have a ready-to-use starter culture that doesn't need to be activated, so I don't have to schedule my bread to bake 3 days in advance. And most importantly, I am sure that the composition of my sourdough is as rich as possible, no one died from the cold there, I do not keep it in a black body, not starving to the sea, but I love and care. I think this affects the taste of the bread.

And now I generally have higher mathematics: two leavens (rye and wheat) require feeding in the morning and evening, a growing "young organism" - in the evening, and still all the time somewhere in the corner there is a dough for bread, and in another corner - already dough rises, and don't forget about anyone!))
I am growing a new leaven precisely because I want a "full spectrum" leaven without a refrigerator. It so happened that I shared my "old lady" a couple of years ago, but I stopped holding it myself. There was a break of two years, when I was not engaged in sourdough, and now I returned to this, and took my sourdough back. She was kept in the refrigerator, taken out once a week and baked. She works fine, no problems, but still I want a new, thoroughbred.

[Sibelis]

SibelisYou write about leaven with such love! I probably won't be able to do that, I also bought HP, so that the bread was tasty, and there was no need to mess around. But I will try to grow the leaven according to your advice.

With a bread maker, it is great to bake with sourdough. I specifically chose programmable, but I don't bother). Just on the usual program, which is about 3.5 hours, before baking, I turn off the oven and wait until the dough rises (wheat usually needs a couple of hours to add), and then turn it on for baking. And if rye or rye-wheat - I knead for about 10 minutes, turn off the stove, take out the spatula, smooth the top and wait for it to double. And I turn on the baked goods. All!)). The only thing is, do not put sourdough bread on the timer for the morning, and so there is not much more fuss than with yeast bread. And rye, for me, is generally better not to bake with yeast.

do not put sourdough bread on the timer for the morning,

This is a pity! Then only on weekends, in the evening after work, I won't have enough time

Of course, sourdough is like activated (mixed with water) yeast. The process has already started. Although, I thought ... Theoretically, you can always choose the temperature so that the dough ferments at the desired hour. For example, kneaded in the evening, and baked in the morning. You will need a temperature slightly colder than room temperature, probably. But now I run the risk of being showered with slippers again - experienced fermentors will probably say that the temperature and time of proofing affect the result. Surely yes, they do, but in general, bread will still work out, and it will be much better than yeast bread.

Well, at least on weekends you will pamper yourself with sourdough bread, many people bake this way.And if you put the dough in the morning, in the evening, after coming home from work to knead the dough, then it is quite possible to cope with the bread until midnight (unless, of course, you work very late). When the recipe has been worked out and the leaven has been checked, there is work for 5 minutes, the rest of the time the process goes on by itself, and you go about your business. By morning, the bread will just cool down, as expected.
You can't even imagine what happiness it is - bread baked with self-grown sourdough! It will only be yours, grown in the microclimate of your home. And the smell of bread! And the taste! And with butter!))
I also liked the yeast bread from the bread machine, but after the sourdough bread, I wouldn't even look at it.
In general, you will definitely succeed!

[Sibelis]

Sibelis, Thank you for your kind words! I'll try really hard, really

Be sure to tell us later!

I promise!

[Natasha]

Natasha, I just read your odes)
When I was just starting out, I didn’t have time to knead and bake in the evening (due to the weakness of the young sourdough), I simply put it in a cool place overnight for proofing - cold fermentation also works. And we have such recipes, and I baked according to them. So for any personal schedule here on the forum there is a way and a recipe.

[Sibelis]

Sibelis, Arka, thanks for your support, tomorrow I'll start))

[Sibelis]

Sibelis, Tell me, please)))) At the stage of cultivation, the smell of vinegar is allowed at some point ??? Something I can't cope with my "eternal" - badly rises. It was that the vinegar smelled, I was frightened that "starving" well, and grinded and fed. Yesterday, in 5 hours, it only doubled, but I can't stand it anymore, I baked and fed the dog some bread .. I read a lot of information on this forum and everything happens differently for everyone.

How old is your leaven? At the stage of cultivation, it will definitely smell of vinegar at some point, do not pay attention and feed further according to the usual scheme. It will figure it out by itself, inside the "collective", and the smell will change to less sour, pleasant.
And if the leaven rises 2 times in 5 hours - so it's not bad, the flight is normal). Give her more time, so that she has time to fully rise and start to smell a little sour, then the dough can be put. I once put the dough on a sourdough that didn't get hungry - I didn't like the result either.
In general, my scheme is as follows: 15 g of sourdough + 30 water + 30 flour - the usual feeding in the morning and evening. That is, it stands in a jar with holes in the kitchen about 60 grams constantly. If you need to bake, I take 50 g of sourdough + 150 flour + 150 water and put it overnight. For storage, I immediately knead the starter separately and put it in its "home" jar. Well, this is a recommendation for sclerotic people like me)). And then there were cases with people, all the leaven went into the bread, and the jar was washed).
In the morning I knead the dough on the resulting 300 g of sourdough, 4-5 hours for all the rises, then I bake.

[Sibelis]

SibelisHow long I don’t remember her now, I’ve been dancing beside her for a long time, but when it smelled like vinegar, it was like 5 days ... and they have 30 flour + 30 water? 35 (+/-) grams are thrown out? And yet ... how to understand that the leaven has already eaten everything and needs to be fed / refreshed again?

15 g starter culture + 30 water + 30 flour - normal feeding in the morning and evening.

Natasha, if I can only feed once a day, won't that be enough?

KOGotok, according to this scheme, once a day is not enough. Will starve and acidify. If not at all, try feeding 10 grams of sourdough + 50 grams of flour + 50 grams of water and the place is cooler - a windowsill, for example. And see how it goes.

Ekaterinka7279, no, I am not throwing away these 35 grams of leaven. Firstly, while it feeds, it still decreases slightly in quantity, and secondly, I don’t bother at all: I leave some for storage, and everything else - in bread, and there will be 300 grams or 350 - Believe me, it doesn't affect anything. Well, the bread will settle a little faster.
But when feeding, when I do not put the dough, I throw away the excess every time, but this is the cost of the process, I resigned myself. In fact, it doesn't matter whether to feed her 15-30-30 or, for example, 10-20-20, or 5-10-10, but, as it seems to me, she is more comfortable in larger quantities. And so, if you save money, you can leave the minimum.

But the proportion of feeding your starter culture will not necessarily be 1-2-2, you need to look at its behavior and the temperature in the house. In the summer, I fed 10-30-30 when it was hot.

How to determine when to feed:
1) the leaven is convex, it smells not sour, it has risen less than 2 times - early;
2) the leaven has stopped rising, the top has subsided a little, it smells sour - it's time to feed;
3) the leaven has settled, a sharp vinegar smell, dried up on top - it has stood, very hungry, feed in a large proportion.
In general, the leaven normally tolerates an extra hour or two or three, so feed it as you like, roughly focusing on its activity.

In general, I have two leavens at the same time - wheat and rye, I feed them the same, but they look completely different: thick rye, harsh)), and wheat is almost liquid, pale white, bubbles high, beautifully, like sea foam and smells tasty. It's a pleasure to watch them!

I remembered that when the leaven became capricious, I fed it with whole grain flour a couple of times. She really liked it).

[Sibelis]

Sibelis,: rose: Thanks a lot)))))))))))))

I got involved in the study of the Italian mother culture. I've been to Italy so many times, I could have brought an authentic one from there, but I haven't heard anything about it. Now I'm trying to figure out if there are any advantages over my working eternal 100%, or one... same. Until I am convinced ... I am convinced ... I will come to conviction, I won’t calm down)). And can you overfeed your own or do you need to grow from scratch according to the correct recipe? Preferably under the Tuscan sky))

[50 g rye flour + 50 g water (bottled)]

Hello, dear forum users! I'm new to the forum, though I've been reading you for a long time, but I registered a couple of weeks ago, right after I bought a bread maker. Take in your friendly ranks starters!
This is my first leaven and there are, of course, questions!
Put the starter on Friday night (January 23rd) 50 g rye flour + 50 g water (bottled)... On Saturdays and Sundays, all day long she spun and stirred and sniffed - only the smell of vinegar appeared and there was no activity! but I fed on a schedule, and I didn’t understand necessarily to remove half of it, or can I just add flour and water in equal amounts, in my case 50 + 50? I didn't clean half.
Yesterday all day I was worried that it wasn’t growing - my leaven wasn’t wandering and I read the relevant topics on the forum.
In the evening, on Monday (this was the 4th feeding), I divided it into 3 parts and fed each one differently - some one should come to life ?!
1.in the same rye flour + water, 50 g each

2.in the 2nd, 2 tbsp. l. hercules, 2 tbsp. l. buckwheat flour and old kefir with some water mixed (no weighing, by eye) inspired me vicachka777

Even everything is so twisted for everyone ... I generally simplified everything. I have been feeding the starter culture for 3 years once a week, it happens less often, I have it in a jar with a lid with holes, and not sealed hermetically .. T

3. and in the 3rd, added 50 g wheat premium flour and 50 g water

I took some filtered water from the tap (I also read on the forum that it is not necessary to take bottled water)

This morning I look - all 3 are active !!!!
Now I ran from work and immediately to them (all day I thought only about my beauties - work did not come to mind, I really wanted to go home!)
And here they are, my beloved - all three healthy, cheerful ones are waiting for me - they are hungry!
🔗 🔗 🔗 🔗 🔗
It's probably too early to bake on them, but I took a chance - I started the dough according to the recipe Alicia

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=194030.0.html

I'll see what happens. And she fed the rest and put them in the refrigerator.
Or didn't you need to feed them before putting them in the refrigerator?

Hi-hi: drinks_milk: and welcome to the club alcoholics anonymousgallant leavers!
I'm pretty sure it was too early to put them in the refrigerator (and the oven is too early to be honest). The microflora has not yet stabilized there, it would be necessary to wait at least a week, or better a couple, hold it at room temperature with dressings in the morning and evening. And only then - even into space, her, matured and strengthened