Starter cultures - in questions and answers

I very much ask our specialists to answer or send there \. where can i find the answer
I saw a video about creating a leaven from ground (germinated at the beginning) grain. An interesting way - the grain is mixed with flour and water, boiled, acidified (to call this process souring, as it does not turn your tongue!) - and then softened with flour and into the dough.
Who tried it ?? Otherwise I'm going to

And who will help? what kind of sourdough to make?

Hello! Tell a newbie. In 3 days I grew the "eternal" sourdough, then divided it, baked the bread (this is a separate story, I told it in the topic "Milk bread in a bread maker" from Margit). She fed the remaining half and set it to grow again. And then I forgot about it for another day .. A dried crust appeared on top, it turns white, as if it is growing moldy. There is a yeast smell. The sourdough boils under the crust, there are many bubbles. All? Has it gone bad? Throw it away and put a new one?

apelsyn in no case should be thrown out once it is bubbling there alive. the crust is nonsense, just carefully remove it and roll it out and continue to feed further. so that the leaven does not dry out on top and does not get covered with a crust. take a plastic bag in which the store has prepackaged food. cut it open and cover the neck of the jar with a single layer. put on an elastic band on top so that it does not fly off and stick the holes with a toothpick. then the leaven will not dry out and there will be no crust. I used to dry too, I put a gauze towel on top. until I read that you need to cover it with polyethylene and make holes on top. I hope you haven't thrown it out yet.

I can't understand why my "eternal" leaven is spoiled? I bake bread almost every day, and the sourdough becomes acidic and begins to smell like vinegar. Maybe I have too "clean" rye flour? The most annoying thing is that I cannot reanimate this leaven later. Tell me what's wrong?

Go to the section eternal leaven from the hatch https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in..._smf&Itemid=26&topic=41.0 and read the forum there, everything is described different situations. and there is also a special under the synonym Arka. she will answer any questions you may have. There are many opinions on this topic, keep in the refrigerator or at room temperature and everyone should decide for themselves. Let me tell you my opinion: you can keep it this way and that way. Bread baked with sourdough stored in the refrigerator will, in any case, be better than bread bought in the store. I will only tell you what to do with the leaven in order to maintain it in working order under any storage conditions, relying only on experience, and not only mine. If you keep starter culture in the refrigerator, you don't need to store much of it. After all, before baking, you will need to get it out, let it warm up and feed it, and then let it rise, that is, work to tone it up and get hungry again. Only now can you knead the bread dough. If you have 50 - 100 grams in the refrigerator. sourdough, that's enough. Try to feed so that the weight of the flour when feeding is not less than the weight of the starter itself. This means that you cannot feed 50 grams. starter culture in less than 50 gr. flour and 50 gr. water. Of course, you can find information somewhere on the Internet that you can, but I express my opinion and focus only on experience. So, more is possible, less is impossible. Keep in mind that you need to get three numbers as a result: the amount of sourdough for bread, a little for further storage, and a certain amount will surely be smeared on the dishes and will not be available. If you store your starter culture at room temperature, then you need to focus on temperature and time. It is not difficult to change the feeding proportions.The higher the room temperature, the greater the proportion. For example, with the usual 20 - 22 * ​​C, it is enough to take 5 grams. sourdough and add 20 gr. water and 20 gr. flour. Enough for a day. If yours is cool, say 15 * C, then you need to take 10 grams. sourdough and feed 20 gr. water and 20 gr. flour, and you can and 25 - 30 gr. you will pick it up yourself after several feedings. At 25 * C, the proportions must be increased. There is already for every 10 grams. starter culture will need 50 gr. water and 50 gr. flour. And if you are a lover of heat, then 10 grams. starter cultures will need to be taken in 100 grams. water and flour. This is how you can store the leaven, feed it every day. When you are going to bake bread, it is enough for you to take part of the sourdough and feed it for baking. For example: there is 45 gr. sourdough - I take 40 gr. I give them flour and water as much as I need for bread, and I feed the rest for storage.

I have two leavens "Eternal" and "Hmelevaya". Hop smelt smells like alcohol, and Everlasting vinegar, although stored under the same conditions and fed too. The bread is good with both leavens. So "Eternal" should be thrown away?

I have two leavens "Eternal" and "Hmelevaya". Hop smelt smells like alcohol, and Everlasting vinegar, although stored under the same conditions and fed too. The bread is good with both leavens. So "Eternal" should be thrown away?

Well, to throw it away or not is your business. In general, it can be reanimated. If you have it stored in the refrigerator, remove it from the refrigerator and let it stand for an hour to warm up. then take from her 50 grams (the rest is waste) and feed 50 grams. water-50gr. (attention, if the sourdough, for example, 50g. Then when feeding her water and flour, you must also blow 50 to 50. More can be less!) When she rises again take 50g from her. Throw out the rest and feed again 50-50. AND THIS FOOD 3-4 TIMES. (Perform the resuscitation process at room temperature.) It should return to normal. And one more important point, do not put the starter in the refrigerator when hungry. If you put her hungry (not fed), then she begins to gain acid !!! If you used sourdough, then before putting it in the refrigerator you need to feed it and then immediately put it in the refrigerator! If it has stood in the refrigerator without work for 5 days, take it out, let it warm up by 50gr and feed it with 50-50 water and flour. And then immediately put it in the refrigerator. And here, for example, they took 50g. Starter cultures. First, pour water into it, then mix it with a spatula, beat it until foam appears, then add flour and mix it all well. Thus, the leaven is saturated with oxygen and behaves more actively.

Wasabi, thank you very much for the detailed answer!

Tell me please. My first leaven was six months old, for some reason rye bread became sour. I decided to grow a new one, but faced a problem. On day 3, a white bloom formed on this leaven. I took it off and decided to grow it further. But already it turns out on the 6th day of feeding, a white bloom was again formed (I feed 100 to 100, by weight). Is this normal?

My first leaven was six months old, for some reason rye bread became sour. I decided to grow a new one, but faced a problem. On day 3, a white bloom formed on this leaven.

So I understand if the bread became sour, then your leaven was also sour. she probably smelled of acetic acid or smelled of it. leaven if not fed for a while. as a consequence of which she has nothing to eat. She begins to starve and when she is hungry she drinks acid. once not fed during another time not fed on time here is the result.
And how to reanimate (return it to its normal state), I described a little current above.

On day 3, a white bloom formed on this leaven. I took it off and decided to grow it further. But already it turns out on the 6th day of feeding, a white bloom again formed.

If there is no smell of mold, then it's okay to just remove the dry film from above and that's it. if there is a mold smell, then throw it out and make another.
Feed correctly, I fed my first two days 100 to 100 on the third day I fed 200 to 200 then fed for two more days.For the next two days I took 100 grams of sourdough from the sourdough (I threw away the rest) and fed 100 to 100. Below I made a clipping from the section "Baking Basics"

After the first two or three refreshments, the smell will be unpleasant, unusual for a normal test. After three days, a sourdough is obtained on which you can make normal bread. However, this leaven is still not acidic enough. After another 1-3 days, the starter culture acquires normal acidity. A total of 6-10 refreshments are required. In thick starter cultures, acid accumulation is more intense. In thick warm starter cultures, more lactic acid is formed (it is non-acidic in taste with a more pleasant aroma), and in cold liquid starter cultures more acetic acid is formed, they are more acidic in taste with a sharper aroma.

More. for the period when you ferment a new starter until it is ready, it needs a temperature of 28-30 degrees.
Covering the jar with a towel on top is bad. you have it and will dry even if you wet the towel. plus to all this microbes do not enter the leaven. you need to take a cellophane bag, cut it and close the neck of the jar with a single layer. fasten on top with an elastic band and a toothpick stick a few small holes. then the leaven will not dry and be covered with a film at the same time it will breathe. and the necessary microbes for fermentation will get to it.

Like this!

I bought a plastic jar with a hole in the lid. When a plaque formed on the 3rd day, there was a strong perspiration inside. I decided that one hole is not enough. She took off the top (it smelled nice, and if you listen ... it crackled nicely inside), fed. I covered it with a towel, the top began to dry, half covered with a lid and again (after about 6 hours) again a white bloom. On the sixth day, that is, yesterday at the appointed time (eight in the evening) at the helm, I decided to see what would happen next. Today, I see, the leaven has not dropped, it has risen (without feeding) !!! but I threw it out and decided to put a new one.
By the way, when on the fourth day there was a lot of leaven, I baked bread .. but for some reason it was sour ((

Wasabi, tell me more please. For example, if you take 7 days to grow, then
1 -100 to 100
2- 100 to 100
3 - 200 to 200
4 - throw out, leave 100 and feed - 100 per 100
5 - 100 to 100
6 - 100 to 100
7 - 100 to 100

You do that, did I understand correctly ??

I bought a plastic jar with a hole in the lid.

I want to say that it is not known what is the chemical composition of this plastic bucket product and what are the interactions between the plastic and the substances released during fermentation of the leaven ?!
And again you write a big mistake that there is a hole in the cover.
First, I advise you to start with a two liter glass jar. and make sourdough in a jar. I already wrote to you that you need to cover with a film. pierce this film from above with a toothpick, that's just the thickness of a toothpick and you don't need to make large holes. pierce holes 10 this is enough.

I fed the first two days 100 to 100 on the third day I fed 200 x 200. On the fourth day I got a full two liter jar. I took only 100 grams of sourdough from this jar (I threw out the rest) and transferred it to a liter jar and fed it 100 to 100. The next day I again took a hundred grams from the jar and threw the rest out and fed 100 to 100. after which my sourdough began to rise well. I took a half-liter jar and began to keep the leaven in a half-liter jar. And it was already 50-50-50 to feed her. You don't need to keep a lot of ready-made sourdough. just take, for example, 50 grams of sourdough and feed (make a dough). for example, if you need 400 grams of starter culture. take 50g. Starter cultures + 200g. water + 200gr. Mix all this well and when it rises from here, take a fifty gram for the next time (put it in storage) send the rest to the dough. and like that, you will always have fresh leaven in a circle.
And so that the leaven does not become sour, you need to feed it on time! If you keep at room temperature, then after feeding it, watch it. when it rises and starts to fall as a stalemate.it's time to feed her. take from her 50 grams throw out the rest. and feed fifty-fifty. if your leaven is opal and you haven't fed it for some time, it will start to pick up acid! if you keep it in the refrigerator and do not bake for a long time after four or five days, take it out and let it warm up for an hour. Feed her. when it rises, take from it fifty grams again feed and immediately put it in the refrigerator for storage.

scorching https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=180128.0 Pane bigio
a piece of dough (7 g) remained on the walls. put it in the refrigerator for some reason. then I came across a sourdough theme .. I added this to this piece 50 g of water, 50 g of flour ..
put it in the heat ... the smell of alcohol, there are bubbles, but not actively. within 2 days broke the whole brain with the theme of leaven
in the end I took 50 g from what was there, + 100 ml of rye flour, + 100 ml of water (I did not notice that ml on the scales were
I covered it with a film with holes and in 5 hours this living creature increased by almost three and after 12 hours it settled ...
Well, in general, right now, I fed her 150 + 150, took 300 g in the dough, and 100 g for storage.
we will soon find out what will be baked

and a lot of information about leavens the brain breaks perfectly ...

A good leaven is characterized by the following qualities: it has an alcoholic smell and a sour taste; it should not sink in water.

THIS IS A CUT TO A QUOTE !!!

I didn't like the smell at all, it's too sour. and taste too

You are generally a fine fellow and everything is going right for you !!!!

After the first two or three refreshments, the smell will be unpleasant, unusual for a normal test. After three days, a sourdough is obtained on which you can make normal bread. However, this leaven is still not acidic enough. After another 1-3 days, the starter culture acquires normal acidity. A total of 6-10 refreshments are required. In thick starter cultures, acid accumulation is more intense. In thick warm starter cultures, more lactic acid is formed (it is non-acidic in taste with a more pleasant aroma), and in cold liquid starter cultures more acetic acid is formed, they are more acidic in taste with a sharper aroma.

duck, if I put the leaven from scratch, these schemes would be correct. but my sourdough was based on the bigi matured for 48 hours, which itself fermented the dough ...
that's what my whole brain took out ...

Well, you can try to overfeed. Well, in general, so she should have an alcoholic spirit and her sour taste.

... If you keep it in the fridge, remove it from the fridge and let it stand for an hour to warm up. then take from her 50 grams (the rest is waste) and feed 50 grams. water-50gr. (attention, if the sourdough, for example, 50g. Then when feeding her water and flour, you must also blow 50 to 50. More can be less less!) When she rises again, take 50g from her. Throw out the rest and feed again 50-50. AND THIS FOOD 3-4 TIMES. (Perform the resuscitation process at room temperature.) It should return to normal. And one more important point, do not put the starter in the refrigerator when hungry. If you put her hungry (not fed), then she begins to gain acid !!! If you used sourdough, then before putting it in the refrigerator you need to feed it and then immediately put it in the refrigerator! If she stood in the refrigerator without work for 5 days, take it out, let it warm up by 50gr and feed it with 50-50 water and flour. And then immediately put it in the refrigerator. And here, for example, they took 50g. Starter cultures. First, pour water into it, then stir with a spatula, beat it until foam appears, then add flour and mix it all well. Thus, the leaven is saturated with oxygen and behaves more actively.

People, I really wanted to quickly get the leaven, and the recipes with the words - Throw out the rest! - for me it is fear and horror! Well, how to throw out a living creature that is also preparing for bread ??
I took whey, rye flour and a drop of unused live yeast diluted in whey (I made an excess).Mixed, kneaded with a spoon until medium sour cream was thick (as I remember from the first sourdough) and left it on the table last night. It's warm here, but not hot.
Early in the morning, it turns out that 12 hours have passed - again I added rye flour and already spring water - and took more flour and water than the sourdough itself was. They say all that you need to give more. The smell is already very pleasant. She stood with me for about 5 hours, increased by 3 times. I put the HP into the bucket right from the bowl, weighing BEFORE and AFTER. It turned out that I took 155 gr. Again I gave her whey and flour. First, the liquid, mixed well, it is thick, probably will not dissolve itself. Then I added flour. Already just wheat, but 2 varieties. And what I put aside in HP, I put the dough on the pizza on it. Yeast, of course, put-reduced by a third the rate. By the time the program ended, Pizza (put it on 500 grams of flour, but took it away from the amount of liquid and flour by the amount of leaven.
While I prepared the filling, the dough reached the top of the bucket))))))))))))
,

Good day. I'm a new person here. But already worried about the starter theme.
Please tell me, but I can take as a basis recipes for yeast breads in a bread maker, but with the replacement of yeast for sourdough. If so, what proportions? And do the proportions differ for different types of starter cultures.

Go to the section eternal leaven from manhole and ask your question there. There they will answer you

Please tell me how to recount the recipe if it is yeast-based, but I need to bake it at 100% leaven. How to calculate how much you need to take it, and accordingly, apparently, you need to reduce the amount of flour and water.

As Arka said:

you can take any recipe and count it down.
e.g. recipe 600 g flour
100% sourdough itself contains half of the flour in its weight, which means that the maximum that should not be exceeded is 1/3 flour in sourdough to the total weight of flour in the recipe (600 g: 3 = 200 g)
t. about. We will have 200 g of flour in sourdough, and we also need to add 400 g of flour to bring the amount to the prescription
the proportion is observed: the weight of the sourdough (400 g) is equal to the weight of the added flour (400 g) or the weight of the flour in the sourdough is equal to 1/3 of the weight of the flour according to the recipe

remember that this maximum should not be exceeded, less leaven - you can
do not forget to reduce the same amount of water in the recipe for 200 g, which are in the leaven.

[HELP]

HELP!!!!! I have something strange. Yesterday at 22.00 I put "Misha" sourdough on the warm floor in the bathroom. Today at 17.00 it started to bubble. I fed it according to the instructions for 2 days. I put it there too. An hour passed, she flooded with me .. And all in a small bubble:


Attention, question: what to do ??? Remove the heat from the room ?? How to leave overnight ?? Pour into a liter jar ??? Halve ?? Feed???

And divide in half into two cans. Feed one, not the other. One in warm, another in moderate temperature. As a scientific researcher observe. Here only empirically.

Creamy, thanks! The can is practically over .. it has reached the very top. I will divide it in half .. I will feed both two .. I will leave one in the room, the other back to the warm floor ..

Shared .. fed in equal proportions .. waiting ..

Hello, here I have such, perhaps a stupid question, but I got confused in the definitions: are the working leaven and the starter starter the same thing?
Thank you in advance,

[tiamosofia]

tiamosofia , working is a leaven that can be used to knead dough and bake bread. A starter is a base that must be fed and wait for a 2-fold increase, after which it turns into a working one.

Hello starters. I have this question (if it was already asked, send me where necessary). Is there any ratio of how much starter to take for a certain weight of flour? Like 2 g of fresh yeast per 100 g of flour? So I need to make 200 or 400 g of starter, should I take the same amount of starter in both cases or not?

[irinapanf]

irinapanf , Anna wrote very well about the calculation of the starter:

How much starter do we need for the rye sourdough?
The rules are:
1. The more starter we take, the sour our bread will be.
2.The warmer our starter costs, the less starter we need to take
3. The longer the leaven ferments, the more sour the bread will be.
We usually need to take 10-20% of the starter from the total weight of the sourdough flour.
For example: according to the recipe we need 400 gr. ready-made starter culture, which includes ~ 200g. flour and 200 gr. water, this means that we need to take 10-20% of the starter from 200 gr. flour, it turns out we take 20-40 gr. starter for feeding our starter culture.
Now, the warmer our starter costs, the less starter we need to take:
20% starter at 20-23 ° C
10% starter at 24-26 ° C
5% starter at 26-27 ° C
2% starter at 27-28 ° C

The acidity of the bread also depends on the total fermentation time of the sourdough, the longer the sourdough ferments, the more sour the bread. 🔗./

I usually take 5g. starter, if the leaven will stand for 12 hours and 10g. starter if 8 o'clock.

Thank you so much!

Good to everyone! I ask the sourdough specialists for help! Maybe someone will be able to suggest something (if I’m on a different topic, then send, pzht, where necessary)) .. The bread turns out, but I don’t like the taste! Can anyone know how you can try modifying my recipe to minimize acidity? The bread is superb with yeast, and sour with sourdough.

Sourdough (French made from 1st grade flour very young) - 150g
Flour 1 grade 195g
Wheat bran 30g
Water 95gr
Butter 18gr
Salt 0.7 tsp. l.
Sugar 0.9 tbsp. l.

When I bake it with yeast, I take 270 g of flour, 175-180 g of water, respectively (for some reason, when using sourdough, the dough "requires" less water than when using yeast) and dry yeast 0.9 tsp, everything else is the same.

The first batch in HP 10 minutes, rest 10 minutes, the second batch 8 minutes, stood on the first proofing until it doubled for 4 hours, then kneaded, molded and the final proofing until doubled was 2 hours.

It stood like good, the crumb is good, elastic, baked, but I don't know what to do with the sourness. My husband and I still somehow endure, but the child refuses to eat, although he is not himself before bread. So far, there is only one thought: the leaven is still weak and in 4 hours, while she first raised the bread, she managed to oxyderate .. For a couple of days I will feed it empty and try to repeat it ..

But can anyone else tell me something? Can you increase / decrease the proportion of sourdough in the dough, or think of something else tricky to remove the sourness?
Before that, I had fun with overfeeding with eternal rye, the result was much worse in terms of lift (strength), but about the same in terms of acid.

Thank you all in advance!


______

The bread is a bit stuck to the shape, so the walls are slightly crumpled and the bottom is torn out.
By the way, can you help with lubricants? I use an oil-flour mixture, but there is little effect. This is how it happens on wheat once, but on rye all the time. They can be said not to get really out of the form at all. I bake rye rye as a result either on paper in the form, or in KhP (the bucket "lets go" so far) .. What else can I lubricate the baking dish with? I bake in heat-resistant glass.

Elena, it is more appropriate to ask your question in the topic Starter cultures in questions and answers.

I am also not satisfied with the "sourness" in bread. Until I found "my" recipe, which would satisfy 100%. Well, he does not go with us.

Regarding your prescription.
1. The more starter, the sour the bread. How much do you charge ??
2. The amount of starter depends on the fermentation temperature of the starter culture. What is yours ?? Usually 5g is taken if fermentation is 12h. and 10g. - if 8 o'clock.
3. The amount of sourdough in wheat bread should be 30-40% of the amount of flour, that is, in your case, even if you count the bran as flour, the maximum sourdough weight is 90g.

I answer the questions:
1. So far, this was my first freshly ripened portion of a Frenchwoman. That is, after the last feeding, when you need to monitor her. At a temperature of about 30, it doubled in the morning (I began to withdraw in the evening, not in the morning) and I immediately put it all into the dough. I put the sourdough in half a portion, respectively, I got 150g and a couple of grams for further dilution.
2. Actually about the starter above the answer, it was not this time, but usually I put dough for the night.I do it with rye: 5, if for the whole night, 10-15, if I knead in the morning and want to be ready for "after dinner". And about the temperature: the leaven was taken out on the set 30gr with a little. And I usually put the dough at room temperature, that is, 19-22, so that it probably does not over-acidify overnight. I usually get up and, according to her condition, either let it stand for another hour or two at the same temperature, or move it to warm, so that it "comes through."
3. And here I have, you see a jamb .. For some reason, it was reflected in my head that the amount of flour in the leaven should be 25-40 of all flour, and not the weight of the leaven itself. That is, if I have 270g of flour, then take 90g of sourdough, yeah .. Let's try!

Thanks again!

[Elena]

ElenaOf course, a lot depends on the recipe itself. And from the taste. My child also doesn't eat sourdough bread. There will be questions, ask.

[Elena]

ElenaOf course, a lot depends on the recipe itself. And from the taste. My child also doesn't eat sourdough bread. There will be questions, ask.

Thanks again! Boom to continue experimenting ..

Actually, there is still a question: here we really like pure leavening rye. I bake it every 1-2 days. But the process takes a day, or even more. That is, I either put in the leaven in the evening, knead in the morning, proof it for 4-5 hours and bake it in the afternoon, but it is still desirable to eat only in the morning. Or in the morning the leaven for the battery, then in the afternoon I knead and bake at night, and in the morning we eat. Everything would be fine, but sometimes it is very necessary to speed up the process. Well, for example, it is necessary that he distance in 2-3 hours, and not in 4-5. Can I add some yeast in this case? Will this somehow affect the taste of the bread (or does it depend on the recipe)? Well, how much of this yeast should you put so that the effect is not overdone?

Now I am experimenting with the density of the rye dough in order to understand what I like better, and somehow I see that the thicker the dough, the longer the bread takes to dry, is this so or do I have glitches? It's already 6.5 hours, instead of the usual 4-5 hours it costs ..

[Sparkle]

Can I add some yeast in this case? Will this somehow affect the taste of the bread (or does it depend on the recipe)? Well, how much of this yeast should you put so that the effect is not too much?

Sparkle , this is usually done - yeast is added to make the fermentation process more predictable. The amount depends on the amount of flour and the desired time. Usually 1-3g. pressed for 400-500g. flour. Will not affect the taste. And you can already deduce the exact weight by experience.

Now I am experimenting with the density of the rye dough in order to understand what I like better, and somehow I see that the thicker the dough, the longer the bread takes to dry, is this so or do I have glitches? It's already 6.5 hours, instead of the usual 4-5 hours it costs ..

Well, that's natural. More food, more time to eat.

Well, that's natural. More food, more time to eat.

Why is there more food? I am having fun with the same recipe and just methodically reduce the water in it)) .. Flour and sourdough remain in the same quantities. Or is the flour / water ratio in the dough important for the sourdough?

Or is the flour / water ratio in the dough important for the sourdough?

Important. Even when we feed the leaven. If we want the night to stand, and it is very playful, then we need to take more flour than water.

Important. Even when we feed the leaven. If we want the night to stand, and it is very playful, then we need to take more flour than water.

Yeah? Is it possible on this point in more detail? And then this Frenchwoman figs will feed .. And it's scary that he will have time to oxyderate during the night. That is, I arbitrarily increase the flour (well, so that I can stir it, essno), and then I simply change the proportions in the dough accordingly, right? I'll keep it on mind!

Exactly. Just weigh the flour and water, then subtract it from the total.

Exactly. Just weigh the flour and water, then subtract it from the total.

Yes, yes, thank you!

Urrrya! Uryayaya! I did it! Omela, thank you very much for the tips! After another couple of breads "for birds" I still got a wheat bread with a barely noticeable sourness, which you can not pay attention to at all! Thank you!

I had to feed "this capricious lady" for several days idle at room temperature and I finally waited until she began to cope with feeding 1: 3: 3 hours in 6-8 at room temperature (we have about 19-20).At night I put 8g of starter + 50 flour + 50 water, so that it would not stand, but at night there was a sharp warming on the street (and, accordingly, in the kitchen) and as a result, after 12 hours it grew almost 3 times, but there was no sourness smell. As a result, the dough stood at the first proofing for 2.5 hours, at the second for about 1.5 hours, well, the output turned out to be quite good bread!

Now we must also try to make bread with sourdough, which has increased by 2 times, and see how it will be!
Thanks everyone!

[Elena]

Elena, I am glad together with you.

All kind and happy NG!
And again I have questions. The sourdough animal with character and its behavior depends on a bunch of factors, and I have children and walks with them 2 times a day .. As a result, it turns out that everything is more or less with rye: I kneaded the dough and left it for 3-4 hours (for this I have time to dress both and walk for 2 hours and return), but with wheat it is more and more difficult. The dough must first be kneaded twice with a break (it takes about half an hour), then it costs 1.5-2.5 hours for the first proofing, 1-1.5 hours for the second, plus 40-50 minutes of baking, in the end, if everything goes according to -fast, then I can still fit in the evening, with going to bed after midnight, but if at some stage something is delayed, then it is already quite stressful.
Actually a question for the experienced: if the dough for the first proofing is left at room temperature, and not at +30 (so that it fits more slowly and I have time to walk with the children), how will this affect its taste and, in particular, acid? Will it not peroxide if you do not allow permeation (rise more than 2 times)?
And still interested in long-term fermentation in the cold. I understand that in this case, the dough mixed since the evening is put in the refrigerator overnight, taken out in the morning, allowed to warm (increase by at least 1.5 times), and then molded and put on a second proofing in heat, as usual. What happens with such a long first proofing with sourdough dough? How does this long fermentation affect the acidity?
Thanks to all!

[Elena]

Elena, at 30C, yeast bacteria grow, at low temperatures - lactic acid, therefore, of course, the colder, the more acidic. And the longer the bread ferments, the sour it becomes.

Omela, thanks again .. Eh, but I was hoping that it would be possible to somehow lengthen the first phase painlessly .. We'll probably have to work on shortening the whole process. What will I do in the summer? When my children and I are at home for an hour or 1.5, we only go between walks .. Eh!

Omela, what's your name? Otherwise, I don’t like to constantly refer to my nickname ..

Otozh and I suffer that I cannot make enough time for sourdough bread.
shl. I'm Oksana, you can call me.