Loaded wheat-rye bread with kefir sourdough from Admin. ( in the oven)

Tell me how much malt can be put instead of kvass according to this recipe, I only have malt and then I need to put beer or not.
I met information that malt should not be steamed with boiling water, and in other places this is exactly what they recommend.

Unfortunately, I won't tell you, I used only dry kvass, and malt - yes, everywhere they write it is necessary to brew it beforehand. Read up on malt information. The kvass contains malt, rye and wheat flour and yeast, if I had malt, I think I would take 1.5-2 tbsp. l.

Yesterday I tried, following the example of Admin, to make the dough thinner when kneading. The bread really turned out to be more fluffy. The height of the bread turned out to be the same, but on the cut you can see (there was a piece from the past baking, I specifically compared) the holes are larger, the bread is more tender, but again the crust is not as crispy as before. But always delicious.

Today I baked sourdough bread from Admin for the first time. In general, both the leaven from Admin and the bread recipe from Admin. That's what I did:

Now we have to work on the errors. First, thanks to Admin for the recipes. My sourdough turned out to be thin, so I had to add rye flour. Wheat should be 320 g, instead of beer, water and kvass wort concentrate. The bread turned out, despite some mistakes, just amazing, tasty, fluffy. I have never had such fluffy (this is the word that fits here) bread.
Admin, a question for you: how much sourdough can be added to wheat bread without affecting the quality? Thank you.

Admin, a question for you: how much sourdough can be added to wheat bread without affecting the quality? Thank you.

How difficult it is to answer this question

Use enough sourdough so that the amount does not affect the taste of the bread.
I read recipes on the forum with completely different amounts of sourdough - from a few spoons to 50% by weight of flour!

There is only one advice - give preference only to your own taste of the finished bread!

Count the amount of sourdough in the amount of liquid so as not to add a lot of flour.

Thanks for the kind words

From your, Admin, recipe, the general direction and kefir sourdough remained. The rest was put into free flight, but the result is always excellent! I bake (I call it in a simple way black bread) every week, does not get stale for a long time, taste, aroma, ease of execution - everything is with him. Great recipe, BUT STILL HUMP DOES DO NOT SHINE !!!

So it will not shine!

To make the crown-top shine, I grease it after baking (while hot) with olive oil, you can grease others too - and let it cool

It's nice that leaven and black bread already live their own lives and have gone to people
Thanks to everyone who uses it

I smeared the crust of bread with fresh sunflower oil, which will make it softer, tastier and acquire the taste and smell of sunflower oil. Very tasty.

Dear Admin, Today I made wheat-rye bread with kefir-wheat sourdough for the first time. The bread rose well (though then a little donkey), it turned out to be quite tasty. However, my HP for some reason does not give a ruddy top crust under any regime. The bottom and side crusts, at the same time, are even slightly overcooked.
What would you advise me to bake the top crust well, and not fall through?
Thank you!

Hurrah! I baked this bread late last night! I have never gotten such a rye. Baked in the oven in a round glass 2-liter saucepan. The dough was pearled from it so that I caught it all over the oven.Nevertheless, despite the unsightly appearance, the taste was at its best. However, I'm thinking now: what if we reduce the amount of yeast (so that the dough does not run away, it is VERY active)? Or is it the leaven?

Congratulations on your success

Everything could have overlapped here - both yeast and strong leaven.
Yeast can be reduced to 0.8-1 tsp. or you can reduce the amount of leaven.
You need to try and choose the best option for you so that the quality of the bread does not suffer and its taste.
The amount of flour and liquid will then also have to be adjusted.

Success

Thank you! And if I remove a little sourdough, the better to compensate for the liquid: beer or is it better to take water?

Admin please tell me. you indicated "dry kvass" in the recipe, and if I have liquid kvass wort + yeast for kvass, I can use it, if so, how much should I put it?

[Put]

Put only liquid kvass wort without yeast attached.

Enough 1-2 tbsp. 400-500 grams of all the flour according to the recipe.

And watch the dough.

Today I finally baked my first rye bread. Thanks to Admin and Pakat:




It turned out very tasty! Slightly sour for me, but not significantly. I also used milk instead of beer since it was not at hand.

A couple of questions about bread. Is beer, as I understand it, added to give the bread a bitter taste? The bread tasted slightly bland.

Also, the dough turned out to be quite thick, so I kneaded it calmly with my hands; As a result, the bread turned out to be quite dense inside, which I personally really like, but would like to know what went wrong. 320g of flour came out somewhere in 2.5 cups.

For the sourdough, I used the same volumes of kefir and rye flour (150 ml of kefir - 150 ml of flour), and the sourdough turned out like thick sour cream (I say, because the recipe says the dough is "like pancakes", but different members of my family knead at least 3 different types of such a test, so it's not entirely clear to me what the standard of such a test is). The sourdough behaved like the recipe from Admin, but this is its first generation, it is still young, perhaps inexperienced.

Next time I'll try bread making flour instead of the usual white flour. Thank you very much for the recipe - at the time of this writing, there is nothing left of the bread

Good morning everybody,
Admin here is the 4th time I bake this bread according to your recipe, well, it's just lovely, the VASNYATINA is not ordinary.
This bread resembles the old days when it cost 15 kopecks.
I understand that it is more suitable for baking in the oven, but I would like to use it in KhP, in order to send the recipe to my mother in Russia, so that she would use it.
But not how it does not work:
1 time + 130 gr. flour sourdough thick - rested on the roof
I reduced the leaven 2 times, put only 1 cup of bread and got a small one only 650g.
3 times +200 gr. flour 1 tsp. yeast, the leaven is liquid, rested against the roof.
4 times + 130gr. flour 1/2 tsp. yeast, liquid sourdough - rested on the roof (dribbled into the oven)
Now I think next time I try it without any tremors.
The taste in all variants is very tasty.
Thank you, good luck.

photo is small. buns 650gr.

last 1075 gr.

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1 , and experience is the son of difficult mistakes ...

Everything will work out for you - patience and work

I'm baking for the third time. The results never fail to impress. Yesterday there was no beer at hand, and decided to try Ahmad Earl Gray tea + one tablespoon more dry kvass. In the morning I baked and tasted it - it turned out to be incredibly tasty. Thank you very much for the recipe.

Question, hopefully quickly: this is the third time my bread turns out to be quite flat. I would really like to bake it in the form of a "hemisphere", ala rustic, and trying to achieve this, I just put the dough bun in a wide form and waited for it to rise. But, most likely, due to the weight of rye flour, which sourdough and yeast is simply not able to lift, the bread "spreads" to the sides. That is, it increases in volume, but in width, not in height. It turns out a kind of rye ciabatta.I think the solution to the problem would be to buy a form for a "brick", but I really want this roundness.

Can you tell me if my wish can be fulfilled? =)

[mitja]

mitja , But the answer is not quick.

You made bread with liquid sourdough (as prescribed by the recipe).
The dough obtained according to this recipe is also liquid, from which it will not turn out a rustic hearth bread. For a hearth (without a mold), a steeper dough is needed so that it does not creep.

You can adjust the amount of flour for such bread yourself, but you need to proceed carefully.
You can arrange the dough in a basket and bake it on the hearth. But this requires experience with the basket, although there is nothing complicated.

For example, check out this recipe for hearth bread.

Wheat-rye-corn hearth bread
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=6229.0


Try, and success

Admin please tell me how much flour and liquid is in your starter culture (3-3.5 cups) that you add to the recipe.
Another Admin you somewhere I saw gave a link where you can buy a thermometer for bread on the Internet, please write to me in a personal, I will be very grateful.

In the recipe, rely on the amount of liquid and flour in your current leaven (my recipe is old).

I bought my core temperature probe many years ago in Europe. Now you can look at the address by request in the online stores of each city.
Or on our forum in the topic Kitchen appliances.

Admin thanks for the answer, although it is not clear to me.
I will then ask the question from the other side, how much liquid is needed for this recipe and rye flour?

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1 , it's very easy to do.
Use the search line on the Internet "Thermal probe", the search gives you several pages of addresses and you can easily choose for yourself the temperature probe that suits you personally, depending on your place of residence.

And you want me, sitting in Moscow, to look for a temperature probe for you for a person living in Germany

I also have various things to do and work.

I also answered your second question:
Based on the state of flour and liquid in your leaven. You make a certain proportion when feeding the sourdough, that's where you go.

Success

Admin has already helped me on the first question, sorry I didn't want you to look for a thermometer for me, it's just that I'm flying to Russia in September, so I could order it there, that's why I asked you about the website. Sorry again
On the second question: I make the leaven as you told me last time - 2 tbsp. l. hw. starter cultures +3 days (40 flour + 50 liquids)
If I take a recipe without sourdough, then I already calculate myself, make a minus from the original recipe for my sourdough, that is, flour and liquid.
And in your recipe, I cannot understand how much of what is in the leaven, at least approximately, because I have already baked 8 times (experimented), then it turns out a small loaf of 700g, then more than 1000g (protruding from the HP).
And I really like this bread.

[Calculation example.]

Calculation example.

I usually use this reference table:

The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1625.0

We look further the desired flour weight 700 grams in total bread.

Wheat bread is a VERY BIG BULK.

Tap water 1 5/8 cups (390 ml.)
Wheat flour 4 cups (sifted flour about 140-150 grams per cup)

4 cups x 150 grams = 600 grams of flour. You have 700 grams of flour.
So we correct - 700: 600 = 1, 16
Multiply 390 ml x 1.16 = 452 ml of water by 700 grams of flour.

The rest is regulated by a bun, it is better to use the "flour in water" principle, there will be fewer mistakes.

If I made a mistake in the calculations, correct me using the same table.
Take the amount of flour in your bread in 700 grams, and then as described above.

Admin this is clear to me, I cannot understand what the ratio is in this recipe (psh 320g is visible), but hw. flour and liquid is not clear.
Maybe I'm not explaining correctly what I want, I get 2 options:
1. when I put 3 cups (according to you) of my sourdough, the bread is very tasty, but sticks out of the HP.
2.when I do 300gr. of its sourdough, a loaf turns out to be about 700 gr., but for some reason it loses its taste, not the same when a large loaf

[Tatjanka_1]

Tatjanka_1 , if the baking technology is clear to you and you calculate everything correctly, you like everything - then you will achieve the taste only through your own experiments and experiments with the amount of leaven.

Sorry here, I'm not your advisor, we all have different tastes

In search of bread that would suit my taste, I got to this recipe. And along the way, of course, I got more experience. I was afraid to spoil it, so I halved the recipe. My molds are large (32 cm long), the dough was smeared somewhere at the bottom, and then two hours later it climbed out of the mold. The bread is super. The husband ate half hot and cut, respectively, hot.

[Admin]

Admin forgot to ask. Is the beer always fresh? And then I have half the bottle left, I think what to do ...

[technologist]

In search of bread that would suit my taste, I got to this recipe. And along the way, of course, I got more experience. I was afraid to spoil it, so I halved the recipe. My molds are large (32 cm long), the dough was smeared somewhere at the bottom, and then two hours later it climbed out of the mold. The bread is super. The husband ate half hot and cut, respectively, hot.

technologist, it's nice to hear that the bread turned out and liked

I use beer only dark (black), including from an open bottle, except that it costs a very long time.

Thanks for the quick response! And about bread, I didn't think it was so hard to find bread to taste. I thought - kneaded, baked and eat ...

Thanks for the quick response! And about bread, I didn't think it was so hard to find bread to taste. I thought - kneaded, baked and eat ...

Yeah, right now, we are looking for our taste of bread for a very long time, then it gets boring - we are looking again ...

Now I already understood. The youth group even has such a song in the rap style: ... everything comes with experience, do you remember the last time? ...

Admin, I hasten to thank you for this bread! I was going to try it for a long time, but it was embarrassing that it might not work in cotton, and I am a starter with a month of experience in everything. Aha, how is it! Especially for him, I converted your 100% starter culture into a more liquid one, into a ratio, like in rec. (200 flour for 350 pounds), and did everything exactly your way. But when the kneading started, I realized that the window was not invented for the faint of heart: there was no kneading, but just a stirring of jelly. ... Frightened that "everything was lost, chief", she decided to add more flour, and added with spoons that she was tired of counting. And the dough, well, only slightly thickened, but not only like a bun, but also weakly resembled jellied meat. Well, figs with him, I think, let him swim. And in frustrated feelings I left time for judgment, did not even bother with lengthening the proofing (and this program was only 3.50 in time) And suddenly, an hour later, after the kneading, I saw that I least expected. I have a bucket for 2 shovels and max. loaf size 1.250g. So "THIS" floated 2 cm above the bucket level by the beginning of baking !!! I still don’t know where it came from! What saved me was that it didn't climb over the top. Well, I never expected this. But my shock continued when I finished. bakery products! THIS IS SOMETHING !!! I waved my hand and at 11 in the evening I took out a mezim (just in case) cut a humpback ...: bravo: No, at this moment I was ready to fly to you from Ukraine to kiss you !!! And the taste and humidity and smell were indescribable. But I can't understand: what is the secret of transformation ??? And by the way, I still remembered the added flour-22 (!) P. spoons. In general, my lowest bow to you, from the bottom of my heart! I haven't had such joy for a long time!
P.S. Only now I don’t know, next time add the same amount of flour or reduce it?
HAPPY NEW YEAR YOU DARE !!! HEALTH TO YOU AND PATIENCE !!! Do not leave us without care!

[inusya]

inusyahow much, touching and thoroughly you described it all
It is always pleasant to read about your "bread exploits and revelations" that my bread helps you create your BREAD! Straight

Bake some more, tell us about your impressions - this is also very important for me and I need to know

And about flour - just remember the result of this bread, according to this model and do further, from it and go - it should work out

December 29, and silence ... First of all, I CONGRATULATE ALL BAKERY ON HOLIDAYS !!!
Secondly, I joined the honorary caste of bakers on December 31 (I will not count the weak attempts to bake bread once a year due to the lack of it in the store, it's ridiculous). And for the New Year he gave his son a bread maker. And now I am tormented with you: how - how much of what ?? !!
And the answer, in principle, is simple: by trial and error, there are no recipes for a tube in a tube! The main thing is, do not be afraid, do not despair in case of mistakes, do not pay attention if relatives laugh. My first five breads laughed. And today my husband bought me a large (50 kg) bag of flour!
And most importantly, do not believe that they bake with a bread maker STRICTLY ACCORDING TO RECIPES. If there is no Internet, then yes, and so, THANKS to you, site, many thanks to such assistants as Admin, Viki, Arka, etc.
I think with such helpers we will continue to bake our own bread.
THANK YOU!

[privat506]

privat506, thank you for the kind words addressed to the site, me personally, and my fellow bakers

You are right, strict recipes and conditions are not needed for bread, imagination, diligence, desire and some mandatory rules are encouraged

Good bread for you

Admin, honey. tell me! Since yesterday I took out MK for feed, so that on Sunday to bake your this bread, and my favorite one, but I have this problem: the total amount of flour I have already tested on it (already with the addition) turns out: 320 per rec. + my 24 p. l. which I talked about, it's 240g + even if you add that flour that is in 3.5 bowls. sourdough = a total of 750-800 grams of flour is obtained. You have an oven form, maybe, - allows, but I almost fall out of the bucket on the sides. The most annoying thing is that everything is EXCELLENT, but the bread sticks to the window and when I take it out, there is such a raw pancake from the glass on the top. And I would like to reduce the loaf by at least 100-150 grams so that it does not stick, but I'm afraid so as not to the detriment of the final result.
So the question is: should I reduce only the flour, sourdough and beer a little (if not by a lot, by 10 percent), and do not change all the small bulk ones, or is that all? Well, I don't want to spoil the result !!!

[inusya]

inusya, what do you take as a basis? Amount of starter culture?

Then reduce the amount of sourdough, and reduce flour and additional liquid in proportion to the sourdough.
For example, the starter culture was 300 grams, 100 grams were removed, which is 30% by the weight of the starter culture. Means about 30%! you reduce the flour and liquid - then you regulate the bun, it still needs to be regulated, but to the consistency that you had and the bread was obtained in quality!

Wheat flour - 250 grams + 70 grams (total 320 grams)
Dry kvass SAF - 2 tbsp. l.
Dark beer - 100 ml
Sunflower oil - 3 tbsp. l.
Sugar 1 tbsp. l.
Salt 1.5 tsp
Yeast 1.5 tsp
Liquid kefir starter - 3-3.5 cups
Bread spice mixture - 1 tbsp l.

Judging by the original recipe, I would only subtract the amount of yeast, if your yeast is so vigorous, you don't have much flour. First reduce the amount of yeast to 1 tsp, look at the result, then you can reduce it to 0.5 tsp. and constantly monitor the result until you achieve the desired crumb and taste.
The rest of the ingredients can be left as they are.

Good luck and good bread

Romochka, dear, I'm reporting!
Yesterday, it was too late to bake the long-awaited-reduced version (and this "baby" was weighed - 1.325g). Everything worked out. Means like this: from your original changed the following:
beer-90ml (was 100)
OM -3 p. l. ( also)
dry kvass-2 sec. l. (also)
honey -1 s. l. (was- sah. 1 s. l.)
salt - 1.5 tsp (also)
liquid leaven (200g per 350ml) -3 bowls. exactly (was 3.5)
flour 1 s - 320g according to your opinion + 280g more = 600g (first sprinkled 660g)
trembling-1 tsp (was 1.5)
caraway seeds, sesame seeds, 1 hour each l.
It turned out huge, but did not reach the window by half a centimeter - that's what you need! : yahoo: No changes inside, like the first time. I put it on the honorary list of my breads in the recipe book. I took a picture, but my husband will come and put it in, otherwise I still don't know how to do it, sorry.

[inusya]

Well, here - and we were afraid

inusya, how great everything turned out, happy for you and bread, I'm waiting for a photo

Here is the photo.

photo 2

[inusya]

Mom dear! This is bread - above the roof

inusya, Congratulations! You defeated him

Admin, today I baked it again and make another correction. Since the last time I have been doing it in the first grade (everything else is unchanged). Firstly, for a long time I have been replacing many recipes with a / c with this one, because after all, I think it is more useful for everyday bread. Well, except when you really want something sweet and snow-white.
So - my last one is that in the photo is just with the 1st grade (the only thing: considering that she loves less liquid, she simply added 2 tbsp. More flour and 5 ml less beer). And once again I guessed it! Not a bit worse in taste than with a / c! So, if someone adopts it, I give a grudge - it's checked! Therefore, I no longer post photos - everything is like last time!
Admin, if my considerations do not violate the baking rules and I am on the right track, then tell me; and if I am mistaken about anything, correct it, I will only be grateful!
I want to adapt the second grade over time, because they say that the nutritional value of bread is higher with a lower grade. Otherwise, you don't always eat with your eyes, but you want to pamper your body too ...

[inusya]

inusyayou are on the right track just because you work hard

You can already display your recipe separately "on 1st grade flour", otherwise you hide your bread in my topic - it's time, it's time

Success

Thank you Admin, for your trust and a start in life with your beginning
On the weekend I'll bake again, take a photo (otherwise I can't let go of my hands while I was typing here yesterday - and they started tormenting him there in the kitchen warm), polish the recipe again and give new life to a new bread.
Thanks again!!!

I have a question: very often in recipes there is a "mixture of spices for bread", what is it like, is it sold, or is it simply put to someone who likes it? and another question: when I bake bread in the oven in the form. then for some reason that part of the bread that is in the form does not brown, with a beautiful fried crust on top, and from the form I take out absolutely white or gray bread (depending on what baked), and I also have to fry the crusts separately.

Read about bread mix options here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8242.0

Good bread

Thank you very much, I went to educate myself

Hello Admin!
I am a beginner baker, but I am slowly delving into this wisdom. Including with your help, thank you!
I looked at this bread recipe, but one misunderstanding stopped me ...
The composition includes:

"Liquid kefir starter culture - 3-3.5 cups."

And then you write:

"Comment on products.
There is no rye flour in this recipe, since there is enough of it in the sourdough - about 200 grams per 350 ml. "

But ... explain to me, unreasonable, please, if a cup from your HP holds 240 ml, then 3-3.5 cups of starter culture cannot be 350 ml!
Maybe it's just a slip of the tongue? And I mean not 350 ml, but 350 g ...?
And in general, it is very difficult to navigate by your cup, how much starter culture is needed in GRAMS?

[maruska1]

maruska1, good day

First, the starter culture is prepared in a cup (saucepan) in the required amount.
By calculation, the flour / liquid sourdough in a cup contains a certain proportion of flour and water. Sourdough is made with water (kefir) and liquid consistency.
In every 350 ml. sourdough contains 200 grams of flour.
The bowl can contain 700 and 1000 ml. sourdough, which contains, according to the calculation, some% of flour.
When preparing the starter, we weigh each time the amount of flour and the amount of water (kefir) or other liquid.

From this bowl I take a ready-made sourdough of 3-3.5 measuring cups, with a flour content of 3-3.5 x 200 grams of flour = 600 grams of flour is contained in the sourdough used for this bread, so I don't need to add more flour according to the recipe ...

It is not necessary to measure the starter culture in grams in this recipe. You just need to pour the sourdough from a bowl into a measuring cup with a spoon, measure 3-3.5 cups of such cups and make the dough on it further, with all the ingredients.

Success