Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Of course, flour + kefir, everything fermented in the refrigerator, because it stood for a long time.

A good way out and the use of kefir.

Admin, thank you very much! I'm still a beginner, but I read the forum and slowly "smarter"!
I have a question for you about MK leaven, am I doing the right thing?
I did exactly as written. BUT she is not at all rampant like yours. She has already been feeding for the third time, but she still does not run away anywhere. It smells nice, sour, like apple cider vinegar. It looks thick, does not deteriorate. The whole process is in my 1.5 liter jar. Rises slightly by 2-3 cm. And that's it!
I baked rye bread with it, feeling that there is not enough liquid. Already in the first minutes of kneading, a rye bun does not stick to your fingers. And the crumb is dense, not very porous. After all, the leaven should be considered as a liquid? Even the bread on old kefir according to your recipe is dense for me. Wrong hands?

Admin, thank you very much! I'm still a beginner, but I read the forum and slowly "smarter"!
I have a question for you about MK leaven, am I doing the right thing?
I did exactly as written. BUT she is not at all rampant like yours. She has already been feeding for the third time, but she still does not run away anywhere. It smells nice, sour, like apple cider vinegar. It looks thick, does not deteriorate. The whole process is in my 1.5 liter jar. Rises slightly by 2-3 cm. And that's it!
I baked rye bread with it, feeling that there is not enough liquid. Already in the first minutes of kneading, a rye bun does not stick to your fingers. And the crumb is dense, not very porous. After all, count the leaven as a liquid? Even the bread on old kefir according to your recipe is dense for me. Wrong hands?

Thanks for the feedback!

If the leaven smells good and still rises, then everything is fine. Let it grow further. The more you use it, the more active it becomes. Read the topic again, the leaven can be made thick (according to the rules of the uterine leaven) and liquid, I select the amount of liquid flour arbitrarily, that is, there is more liquid, closer to "liquid sour cream".
Any sourdough works well, I checked it myself when baking.

In addition to the starter culture, you can and should add another liquid - dark beer, curd whey, water. By quantity, to make a normal bun for a bread machine (see photo by Elena BO) or even softer if baked in the oven.

See here:
Molded wheat-rye bread on MK-leaven from Admin.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=3470.new#new

Bread wheat-buckwheat molded on buckwheat sourdough from Admin.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=4235.new#new

The state of the crumb of rye bread must be regulated by ourselves, as well as the wheat bun. This is a matter of practice, try and succeed.

You can read more about lactic acid sourdough here:

ZAKVASKI - in questions and answers
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=3704.new#new

I wish you success!

please tell me why do you put it in the refrigerator all the time? you recommend preparing it for kneading the dough in two days - keeping it in the refrigerator, is it possible to treat it like a hatch culture, without a refrigerator (it will be faster this way)

please tell me why do you put it in the refrigerator all the time? you recommend preparing it for kneading the dough in two days - keeping it in the refrigerator, is it possible to treat it like a hatch culture, without a refrigerator (it will be faster this way)

I keep the starter culture in the refrigerator between dressings. At the time of feeding, I just put it on the kitchen table for the day, at night I put it in the cold. so as not to run away over the edge if she is very active. If you constantly keep the starter. just in the kitchen, it will acidify from the heat and may deteriorate.

How to deal with Zakv.will tell you the experience of communicating with her, do as you can and is reflected in the baking and the taste of the bread.
I have worked out a certain formula for myself, in which the leaven suits me and the bread is delicious. And I told about my experience in this topic, and in the recipes for making my bread.

Before kneading the dough, I feed the sourdough for three days in a row (once a day), during this time rye flour is fermented together with whey, over-acidifies and a full-fledged fermented sourdough is obtained, that is, fermented rye dough, which is very useful for the dough. Then I put the dough on this leaven.

no, no, this is all clear - I just want to understand, "eternal leaven" is fermented for 3 days in the warmth - and the lactic acid is always in the warmth, then in the refrigerator? the process is still going on alone, maybe without a refrigerator it will be ready in a day and a half? or is it wrong?

[three days in a row (once a day), during this time rye flour is fermented together with whey, over-oxidizes and a full-fledged fermented ferment is obtained, that is, fermented rye dough]

no, no, this is all clear - I just want to understand, "eternal leaven" is fermented for 3 days in the warmth - and the lactic acid is always in the warmth, then in the refrigerator? the process is still going on alone, maybe without a refrigerator it will be ready in a day and a half? or is it wrong?

I repeat:

"I have worked out a certain formula for myself, in which the leaven suits me and the bread turns out to be tasty. And I told about my experience in this topic, and in the recipes for making my bread."

"Before kneading the dough, I feed the leaven three days in a row (once a day), during this time rye flour is fermented together with whey, over-oxidizes and a full-fledged fermented ferment is obtained, that is, fermented rye doughwhich is very useful for the test. Then I put the dough on this leaven. "

If you bring up the topic:
Preparation of uterine starter culture
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mf&Itemid=26&topic=1331.0

then you will read what leaven is in general, and how it is prepared. This sourdough recipe is taken from a baking book.

There you will also read that leaven is "sour dough". According to my observations, on such a peroxide dough-leaven-dough in three days, the bread turns out better, the specific sour taste and smell go away.

And how to stand the leaven, on the table or in the refrigerator, choose for yourself.
Read more here why people on the forum put it in the refrigerator. Because the leaven has the ability to escape from the dishes even in the refrigerator.

ZAKVASKI - in questions and answers
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=3704.new#new

thanks, that was exactly what interested me

"why do people on the forum put it in the refrigerator. Because the leaven has the ability to escape from dishes even in the refrigerator."

Ensuring the friability of bread, people for thousands of years baked it from dough made with sourdough, or dough. Since the leaven was known in Ancient Egypt and was used literally all over the world, it is certainly not about some accidental discovery, as we are being told today, but about the deep penetration of the ancients into the very essence of natural relationships. The fermentation process is based on the fact that the lactobacilli present in healthy air, which convert milk sugar into lactic acid, under certain conditions find a favorable nutrient medium also in the dough. Moreover, rye is a much more favorable breeding ground for them than wheat. Having prepared the sour dough, a small amount of it was kept in the cold until the next baking, and then put into a new dough and thus created conditions for further reproduction and growth of microorganisms (in science, this is called "grafting"). This process takes time and is sensitive to changes in temperature conditions, and even more broadly, to changes in weather.

Thanks to the natural leaven, first of all, lactic acid arises in bread, but - depending on the "setting" - also carbon dioxide, acetic acid and other products that give it a specific spicy taste. Natural leaven is not a homogeneous substance, but a living organism that adapts to the nutrient medium and environmental conditions, like yeast in winemaking.The principle of fermentation here is the same as that underlying the souring of milk or the fermentation of cucumbers and cabbage. It should be emphasized once again that this method of decomposition of carbohydrates to lactic acid exactly corresponds to the metabolism in the human body, where sugar is decomposed to form lactic acid, and not alcohol. Since traditional baking using natural sourdough is a very long process, in fact, it is not a craft, but an art, and time is expensive now, "quick sourdough" and "artificial sourdough" were invented, which, however, do not provide the necessary effect , do not bring the process to final products, pointing only the right direction. The matter is accelerated even more if you knead vinegar or some other acid into the dough, which, however, contradicts the very essence of baking.

[Admin]

Admin, a question for you: I grew MK leaven, but instead of rye I added buckwheat flour, fed it with old cottage cheese, I baked your Rye-Pshenochino-Buckwheat bread twice already, delicious, thanks for the recipe ...
here is the question:does she constantly need a break of at least 5 days?
That is, I fed for 3 days, baked, the rest in the refrigerator and it costs 5 days (minimum) and everything is new ...
Otherwise, it turns out that it is necessary to grow one more, so that in this interval there is another one for baking? ... otherwise today I baked without it and realized that I like more bread with sourdough ...

Now, if you liked just such a bread, then you made it on peroxidized ripened dough - that is, ripened sourdough.
For me it was optimal exactly 3 days of feeding - 5 days of rest, well, at least 4 days, the leaven should rest and get hungry.

And so try any options that you like.

Good luck!

Now, if you liked just such a bread, then you made it on peroxidized ripened dough - that is, ripened sourdough.
For me it was optimal exactly 3 days of feeding - 5 days of rest, well, at least 4 days, the leaven should rest and get hungry.

And so try any options that you like.

Good luck!

Thank you very much for your reply!!
Yes, having tasted both breads, the sourdough turned out to be more pleasant bread for the taste of my household ...
So there is more than one leaven in your fridge?
Apparently I'll have to raise the second one ... so that there are no gaps ...

Admin, thank you very much for the intelligible technology for making the sourdough. it seems I'm finally starting to get it right. 2nd day - bubbles and wanders - be healthy. on serum. before that I tried to make from flour and water - it turned out so-so
rye flour "nastyusha", according to sensations, ferments better than falconer flour.

Admin, could you please share the recipe ... for cottage cheese, how do you do? hot or cold?
I only know hot, I heard there is still some cold.

Thank you for your feedback.

For the preparation of cottage cheese and lactic acid products, see here

Homemade dairy products by Admin
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=4812.0

Healthy food recipes and secrets
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3434.0


You will not find the answer, ask questions in these topics, we will help.
Cold cottage cheese does well Alexandra in the Recipes topic ...

Good luck!

Allow me to add by topic.
I make rye sourdough on homemade kefir from fermented milk mushroom.
A very good result!

Allow me to add by topic.
I make rye sourdough on homemade kefir from fermented milk mushroom.
A very good result!

Thanks for your experiences!

Share your sourdough recipe, interesting to know

Since I got the kefir yeast fungus, I feed only my kefir.

Admin, I have a question ....
I put in the leaven yesterday ... but not really yours - there was old sour cream and milk ...
The leaven doesn't fit well ... Does this mean that nothing good should be expected from it, or is there a chance?
In principle, I already have aged kefir, I can put a new portion ...

Since I got the kefir yeast fungus, I feed only my kefir.

I keep this mushroom only because of the sourdough. I really don't like kefir from it.

Admin, I have a question ....
I put in the leaven yesterday ... but not really yours - there was old sour cream and milk ...
The leaven doesn't fit well ... Does this mean that nothing good should be expected from it, or is there a chance?
In principle, I already have aged kefir, I can put a new portion ...

Sour cream can be diluted with kefir, yogurt, something fermented.
The starter culture will not work with fresh milk and cream - it is a fresh product. Proven by experience.
If this is your first feeding, it's best to start over, you need the first strong starter culture.

Admin, thanks for the answer!
There was a mixture of old sour cream, sour milk and kefir ...
The leaven ran off a little tonight. In the morning I fed her. but there is no active movement ...
Tell me, can at least something be baked for her if she is so inactive?

I put a new one - I have kefir, we will age it

Admin, thanks for the answer!
There was a mixture of old sour cream, sour milk and kefir ...
The leaven ran off a little tonight. In the morning I fed her. but there is no active movement ...
Tell me, can at least something be baked for her if she is so inactive?
I put a new one - I have kefir, we will age it

Advice for the future: when you ask a question, try to give out information as much as possible, then you will get the right answer.

A mixture of old sour cream, sour milk and kefir ... this is already a lactic acid product, especially since the leaven has already escaped.

That's right, after she ran away, she ate the entire supply of MC products and was hungry, so she fell out, that's okay.
In order for the starter culture to mature, feed it once a day - three times, stir during the day, thereby saturating it with oxygen.

While your leaven was active.
Start over if you threw out the old one. For more details and with pictures, see the information here

Lactic acid sourdough from Admin. now I will find the link.

Read the first 3 pages of the topic.

Thanks for your experiences!

Share your sourdough recipe, interesting to know

Yes, in principle, everything is the same. Rye flour and kefir. I put it on the eye. I constantly keep the sourdough in the refrigerator, on the eve of baking I add top dressing. Before kneading the dough, I take it out of the refrigerator in a couple of hours.

I keep this mushroom only because of the sourdough. I really don't like kefir from it.

You know, I noticed that the result depends on the initial quality of milk. Previously, I made it from the store (although we have it quite good, natural), and now from home-made excellent curdled milk. I'm even worried, too fat

Hello Admin!
The question arose like this: if it is possible to grow sourdough on oatmeal, then perhaps it is possible to grow it on a mixture of various flakes? We sell such a product, called. "8 cereals". Ingredients: oat, barley, wheat, rye, millet, buckwheat flakes, as well as flax and soy (express products). I am perfectly aware that it is better to use long-lasting flakes, but you will not find such flakes in the daytime with fire ... At least on the package it is worth "cooking for 5-10 minutes", thank God, not 1-3. Bread with these additives turns out very even, the question is: is it possible to add this mixture to the sourdough feed or flax and soy can play an unfavorable role? The rest of the ingredients, it seems, are fine for sourdough, except perhaps doubts about millet ...
The second question: is it really possible to feed the sourdough not with flour, but with cereals, say, wheat (winter supplies), flour flies away at the speed of sound, you will not be enough, and we eat porridge quite rarely. Sourdough sourdough - I'm furious, I can't feed it! Moreover, I feed with any flour that is at hand. Hence the question - if you feed with cereals, maybe it will be a little quieter?
Best regards, Svetlana.

[for me]

Good day!
I answer according to my observations.

I only did it on long hercules. Fast Hercules for me did not fit, the structure of the test is not the same, some kind of smear. Apparently its processing plays a role.
It should be borne in mind that the crumb of finished bread on such a leaven will also depend on the properties of the cereal itself. For example, rolled oats gives a dry crumb, bread with the addition of 7-8 cereals also gives a dry crumb and dries quickly. The taste of the bread should suit you too, it may be specific. Hercules completely dissolves in the leaven and is not felt in the dough. In flakes 7-8, the presence of grains in the dough is still felt, but as in the sourdough I can't say - I didn't.
I liked the pure buckwheat sourdough (look at me), fermented buckwheat gives a good taste to the bread. And buckwheat flakes showed themselves well in the dough. Or because I really like buckwheat bread !?
I never cease to be amazed at the ability of invention in leavens, which only I could not find in the Internet. On what they do not put it. Therefore, probably your version of the leaven has the right to life, you need to try to make and bake on it, and then the bad and tasteless will be eliminated by itself. Today I come to this very opinion.
Only feed either water or lactic acid products. Milk and cream will not raise the leaven, checked.

I never fed the sourdough with cereals, try to make it yourself. It seems to me that the grains may not disperse in the sourdough, and you get bread like with the addition of corn grits. But that's my opinion.

Rabies depends on the state of the sourdough - hungry or not - and feeding, especially lactic acid. Different starters behave differently.
Look at my photos of buckwheat sourdough, how it ran away, but it does not contain gluten, and the flour itself is very dry, there is a problem with water absorption ... but rushing with terrible force.

Light, flag in your hands! Be creative and tell us! Everything is learned only through experience!

I have already passed this stage, now other plans are on the way. I would like to do something new!

Thanks a lot for the answer, Admin!
I just thought that since you have been making sourdough bread for quite some time, you may have experienced different variations. Well, well, we will learn from our own mistakes, fill our bumps. I feed the starter culture only with s / m products, I don't feed fresh milk and cream, I understood everything for a long time, but sometimes I just feed the sourdough sourdough with water and flour, if there are no s / c products. I didn't find anything wrong with that. That is, my leaven is alternately M / K, then "eternal"

Admin, thanks!

I am recently a baker, but leaven is a breakthrough, a step forward!

I didn't read everything from the topic (sorry), maybe it's written somewhere, but is whey made from cottage cheese that has been heat treated in a water bath suitable? I cook such cottage cheese for a little one, and there is a lot of this whey in the house. A small kefir and so eats. Kefir in the house is in short supply, and whey is the opposite. And podglyuvali products - there is a charm to use them for a good cause. Please also accept my admiration.

The yogurt leaven turned out well, it has been living for about a month, then in the refrigerator, then I feed it.

You need to put your lactic acid in the recipes to go directly. Otherwise, there is not always time to read everything from the forum to get to the bottom of the truth

[yuliya_k]

yuliya_k

Why read everything - it is convenient to use the SEARCH button at the top of the page.

I remember that Admin conducted an experiment with whey-based sourdough - but just like you, I have to look for a search - I think you can handle it yourself

But is whey from cottage cheese that has been heat treated in a water bath suitable?

Thanks for the feedback

What is curd whey? This is the liquid that remains from the preparation of cottage cheese. And cottage cheese is prepared in a cold and hot way.
So any serum will do.

Admin, a tremendous thank you for the leaven, I also started out as kefir, and grew into MK due to the lack of kefir. It turned out rye bread according to your own recipe "as it should" - with sourness, just excellent.the top is a little darkish - after all, the first one is here in the photo:



and cut



but today I was in a hurry and I'm afraid that I "baked" my own leaven - I put it in the oven, it seems warm, and then I look - the leaven is already hot ... out of fright, to cool it, I added cold whey and flour, now instead of large bubbles there are some small ones and little hope, I will see it tomorrow ...

Good day everyone!

I, too, decided to join the lovers of sourdough. I aged the milk for 5 days, and finally yesterday I did the first stage: 100 g of wheat flour + 100 ml of sour milk. for 6 hours there were no visible changes .. and I wrapped the dishes in a towel and put them near the radiator for the night, probably it's cold for her (at home +20 degrees). In the morning, looking into the jar, I also did not find any special changes, well, maybe a couple of miserable bubbles appeared on the surface. I'll feed you in the evening, let's see what happens tomorrow

Admin, a tremendous thank you for the leaven, I also started out as kefir, and grew into MK due to the lack of kefir. It turned out rye bread according to your own recipe "as it should" - with sourness, just excellent. the top is a little darkish - after all, the first one is here in the photo:

Grow sourdough, bake bread on it and eat it for health, success

In the morning, looking into the jar, I also did not find any special changes, well, maybe a couple of miserable bubbles appeared on the surface.

Mouli, the main thing here is not to despair, I also didn't bubble up on the first and second days, then I realized that +20 - she's still chilly. it is necessary to put in a saucepan with warm water - this is where it started! so warm up - everything will work out! I made with rye flour as Admin described ....

Lisss

Thank you so much for the hint - I wouldn’t be able to talk about water !!! 4 hours ago I fed, at the moment there is no progress, so I ran the bathhouse to cook

I put the sourdough can in a pot of warm water, and the process began. In 2 hours, the leaven rose 1/3. Waiting for what will happen next Periodically warming up the water

Finally it happened !! I baked my first sourdough bread. I took a proven recipe, just replaced half of the yeast with sourdough, so I put 5 spoons with top (tablespoons). What the smell was while the hp baked ... words cannot convey. The whole family was choking on saliva. In general, leaven is a THING. I think over time to give up yeast altogether. It tastes like bread with a light sweet and sour vks, just like our whole family loves.
That's just a question - according to the recipe, apple cider vinegar 10 ml is included. If we replace yeast with sourdough, then the vinegar should be left or the sourdough will give the required amount of acidity ??

And experience, son of difficult mistakes ... now we understand what is required of you - only kilograms of spoiled flour and other products to achieve good results

Congratulations

Only the sourdough sourdough will be enough.

And experience, son of difficult mistakes ... now we understand what is required of you - only kilograms of spoiled flour and other products to achieve good results

Congratulations

Only the sourdough sourdough will be enough.

Hee hee !! maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, in 1.5 months since I bought hp only 1 time I had to throw out what I created

Admin, I have a question for you. Gradually transferred her "eternal" leaven to MK. I bake black bread according to my own recipes. It always works out for me: I start with a recipe, and then my imagination is connected, I add this and that ... In short, it turns out that I bake according to my recipes.
So this is the problem I am having. Last 3 times I was dissatisfied with my black bread on MK starter culture with added yeast. Wet inside. Not that unbaked. It's just too wet crumb for my taste. And it also rises for a long time, for more than 2 hours I settle and only rises a little, I start baking, because I think I will overexpose and ruin everything (I also tried in a bread maker, as I usually bake. And for the last time I put it in a mold in the oven, I thought this might be the reason).What could be the reason for this effect?
The leaven is good, it is over a month old. And one more thing about the leaven: I use only rye flour and whey. I take it out of the refrigerator, feed it before I go to bed and in the morning it is very violent, it increases by more than 2 p, and bubbles. I feed for another 2 days, as expected, but there is no such riot as after the first day, although it also rubbed and bubbles, but less. Maybe it is better to use it after the first day, and not wait 3 feeding?

I am not an Admin, but I will answer: it is better to feed the leaven 3-4 hours before the start of kneading the dough, and use it at the very peak of its riot ...

thanks, I will try again

Can you please tell me, if I seem to have gone too far with flour, can I start over or can I add more yogurt on the trail of feed? Just to be honest, I vaguely understand "pancake dough" .. I make it thick, my mom is almost liquid ..
6 hours ago I made the leaven, it seemed to be not very thick, but now I decided to stir it so it almost does not drain from the spoon if you do not help it :(

We need to feed the sourdough, and in the refrigerator I came across a bag of mozzarella cheese. And she thought. Mozzarella cheese is packed in a bag (factory packaging) and is in a liquid that looks like whey. What do you think .. . can this liquid be used to feed the starter culture?

I am of course also new to leavening. But it seems to me that something could have been added to this liquid from preservatives (the same salt), and the sourdough might not like it ... if I were you, I would be better than ordinary water, if there is nothing else, I added

Thank yuliya_k !! What to feed the sourdough is. This is me purely hypothetically ... what if it is necessary and nothing but mozzarella is not. ??? I read the packaging, and again you are right ... the ingredients contain salt and citric acid.

Thanks for the detailed description!
And how to store this sourdough not in the refrigerator (here 🔗 I read about the low benefits of such a leaven, now I just keep it at home, feeding it)

Regarding kefir - earlier kefir was actually made on kefir fungi, they are very capricious to storage conditions, but now, as far as I know, most kefir is made on dry ferments. I make yogurt (or kefir, no difference) from milk purely on lactic acid bacteria. To do this, I heat the milk to very warm, add a little ready-made yogurt (or curdled milk, or sour cream with natural sourdough - better than a village one, but perhaps whey too), wrap it in a towel - after 8 hours or less, a very thick and pleasant yogurt is obtained. Completely natural, yeast and alcohol free.

Better about cooking yogurt on your own, the products are described here - 🔗, section "fermented milk products"

Admin, please tell me, be sure to let the leaven rest or you can grow it continuously. Somewhere, I think I read it, but I can't find where. Sorry if I make you repeat.

The answer to this question is in this thread, and in the Sourdough topic in questions and answers.

The leaven must be given rest, at this time the processes continue in it. During this time, the leaven will get hungry, rest and eat well with the next feeding.

Dear ROMA! What do you think, is it worth adding the bran not to the dough, but to the leaven along with the dressing. They become very gentle and hopefully useful.

Everything is known in comparisons

You can add only what effect you get. For me, bran is bran, no matter how you soak them and how much, the grain husk will never become soft, my opinion.
I say because I soaked them in water.

Add small amounts of bran and fiber to bread, it will work.