Lactic acid sourdough by Admin

... on the second day I started to move, the smell of fermentation is pleasant, during the next feeding I poured it into a larger dish. And so it somehow calmed down, there are fewer bubbles, it does not grow ... Do it again or wait a little longer?

Why anew? It is not necessary again, everything is "going according to plan". At first, the process went actively, now it has calmed down a little - this is normal. There is also a stop for a while. There, inside, bacteria and their several different types. They are now fighting for survival. It takes time for the "good" bacteria to defeat the "bad" bacteria first, then the unpleasant smell will go away. And then your starter culture will have to balance the bacteria. Be patient and everything will definitely work out.

Why anew? It is not necessary again, everything is "going according to plan". At first, the process went actively, now it has calmed down a little - this is normal. There is also a stop for a while. There, inside, bacteria and their several different types. They are now fighting for survival. It takes time for the "good" bacteria to defeat the "bad" bacteria first, then the unpleasant smell will go away. And then your starter culture will have to balance the bacteria. Be patient and everything will definitely work out.

Finally some good advice! Thanks for your feedback.

Why anew? It is not necessary again, everything is "going according to plan". At first, the process went actively, now it has calmed down a little - this is normal. There is also a stop for a while. There, inside, bacteria and their several different types. They are now fighting for survival. It takes time for the "good" bacteria to defeat the "bad" bacteria first, then the unpleasant smell will go away. And then your starter culture will have to balance the bacteria. Be patient and everything will definitely work out.

Thank you. I accidentally did an experiment here: I still left a part in the jar and now I am feeding two leavens. The one in the bank started playing again, but in the bowl it was weaker. Maybe the shape of the dishes matters?

Maybe the shape of the dishes matters?

Of course! The narrower the dishes, the easier it is for the leaven to rise. But this can also be calculated from the amount of leaven by the volume of the dishes. I try to make the starter culture about a third of the volume of the dish, if it is not thick, of course.

The sourdough epic continues.
Rye, kefir. For the third day, there are bubbles. but the surface dried up overnight and when I stirred, it was like milk froth like dry pieces.
Wait some more or try to knead the dough?

The sourdough epic continues.
Rye, kefir. For the third day, there are bubbles. but the surface dried up overnight and when I stirred, it was like milk froth like dry pieces.
Wait some more or try to knead the dough?

Hello, while I'm waiting for the purchase of a bread machine, I decided to get hooked on homemade bread in the oven. It's boring to bake with yeast, I decided to try it right away with sourdough ... Today the first day of my MKZ has passed. While she makes me happy ... and so that it does not dry out on top, I cover the dishes with a towel. Doing ROMIN sourdough.

Admin, hello! I can't help but show you your "grandson" - rye-wheat whole-grain brewed with lactic acid sourdough: ... The starter is only 3 days old, bread based on this one, "Whole wheat-rye bread with malt, with lingonberry jam (oven)", adapted for HP and a little change in the recipe. Yeast - no, no! Taste -! Of course, it's not so hot with the rise, and it could have been a little bit more, but actually the leaven (and I have it first) is just lovely, my husband managed to grab a humpback in the morning, and I tried it by lunchtime until the middle of the loaf, in short , this is for you

[redcat, svetlana18]

redcat, svetlana18 - girls, thank you for the reviews, kind words and comments and showing your bread!

Bake your bread for health, and please yourself and your loved ones!

Please tell me how much kefir to take for the kefir sourdough initially, what would be enough to bake the first bread on it and put it away for storage?
I didn’t succeed in eternal leaven, I want to try kefir and sour-milk growing. And then my family has been refusing yeast bread for 2 weeks already, they are waiting for sourdough bread, but I still can't grow it :(

[For the initial (from scratch) kefir sourdough, pour 2/3 of a plastic jar (see photo) of standing, aged kefir (I had homemade yogurt) and two scoops of rye flour full of top (see photo) into a saucepan, stir everything thoroughly with a broom (but do not whisk) to break up large and small lumps of flour. I make the dough with a "pancake" consistency.]

[
For the initial (from scratch) kefir sourdough, pour 2/3 of a plastic jar (see photo) of standing, aged kefir (I had homemade yogurt) and two scoops of rye flour full of top (see photo) into a saucepan, stir everything thoroughly with a broom (but do not whisk) to break up large and small lumps of flour. I make the dough with a "pancake" consistency.

I subscribe to the question about the approximate quantities of aged kefir (in ml) and flour (in grams) to start creating kefir sourdough "from scratch", because at the beginning of the topic a number of photos did not open and I do not understand 2/3 which cans to take kefir and which scoops for measuring flour.
I read various topics on the forum for the production of starter cultures, I realized that many take the amount without an exact measure, "by eye", but if later, when determining the amount of flour and liquid at the baking stage, it is necessary to determine exactly how much flour and water to add to the amount of starter culture taken, with taking into account the flour and liquid already contained in the leaven, I would like to be more precise with the quantities at the very beginning.

My lactic acid sourdough was one of the first on the forum, it was a long time ago!

Then people began to adapt it the way other starter cultures do with top dressing. Therefore, you can rely on the proportions of other ferments, the essence will not change from this! The sourdough still needs to be fed, grown, given time to ripen for the test.

For lactic acid, it is better to keep the old kefir, then it works partly like yeast, the leaven will not be acidic.
And any starter culture, even lactic acid, can eventually be converted into a regular one on water.

I have lactic acid sourdough for more than half a year, I feed it every week, regardless of the use when baking, whether I take it right for baking after 3 feeding, that is, on day 4, because after 2 feeding, on day 3 the sourdough grows in the refrigerator times at three, it gets out of the jar, does it mean that on day 3, that is, after 2 dressings it needs to be used?

So all the same, you can't do without yeast with kefir sourdough?

And I would like to try to bake bread without yeast with one sourdough, while I bake with sourdough with the addition of yeast. Tell me, girls, how much sourdough to take per 1 kg loaf, so that bread without yeast rises and so that it doesn't turn out sour? I bake in a bread maker.

My eternal leaven from Luca was tragically destroyed when the jar in which it was stored broke.
In this regard, I decided to try the sourdough from Admin with MK, but when I opened the topic I found that most of the pictures did not open (I tried it for several days in a row, so this is not because of problems with the Internet). Only I have such a problem or were they just deleted from the server? ..
The saddest thing is that there are no pictures not only in this topic, but also in all the others, which speak of MK leaven. Even on her own site I could not find such a section, only a general description in the yeast classifier.

Maybe someone knows where you can see how the whole process looks like so that you can compare it with your results? ..

Thank you in advance!

Oleg

... most of the pictures won't open (I tried it for several days in a row, so it's not due to internet problems). Only I have such a problem or were they just deleted from the server? ..

Hello Oleg!
The problem is that these photos were uploaded via the site 🔗 without registering. And this site, as it turned out, after three years, deletes photos of "past years".
There is an idea to grow again, "record" the whole process and re-upload the photo. Only hands do not reach. Hope it's just a matter of time.

Only hands do not reach. Hope it's just a matter of time.

Then I'll try to make Kalvel's leaven according to Lyudmila's recipe, the whole process is painted there with photos)
And let me know how you can update the MK starter recipe, please.

... let me know how you can update the MK starter recipe, please.

Agreed.
Only if you have Calvel's sourdough ... even though I'm not sure that you will need MK sourdough.

And I'm not sure, in turn, that I will get Calvel's sourdough the first time
So it might even come in handy!

And I'm not sure, in turn, that I will get Calvel's sourdough the first time

Remember the movie "The Wizards"? So - to see the goal and not notice obstacles!
It turns out strange - I am sure that you will succeed, but you are not sure It is really not difficult. Observing all proportions, time and temperature conditions, you still have to try not to get Calvel's leaven. Unlike MK sourdough, where you are a hostage of a kefir manufacturer and it all depends on what antibiotic and how much he added to kefir today. I do not know about you, but in our city with kefir the correct complexity.

I'm not sure, since the temperature regime of 27-28 degrees cannot be kept constant, I do not see the possibility, so I will have to experiment at 25 (from 22 to 26 it can fluctuate during the day).
But I am a stubborn person, so I will not achieve my goal by washing, so by rolling!

Do you use Calvel's leaven in your pastries now? ..

Do you use Calvel's leaven in your pastries now? ..

It so happened to me that in the fall sourdough on grapes is always started. Your grapes, so it’s not convenient not to start. And in the case when all the leaven went into baking, there were such cases, a French one (Eric Kaiser) was started. She is fast and I always succeed.
I used Calvel sourdough in 2009 for about six months and was very pleased with it. She is not capricious. The main thing is not to let it peroxide, that is, to accumulate a lot of acid. But if suddenly something, then it is quickly restored by anti-aging.
I think it will not be difficult for you to grow it.

We also have our own grapes ... but only it grows at home in Bulgaria, and in winter I bake bread in Minsk, but here only purchased)
And I started with a liquid leaven of the Kaiser style, but it quickly acidified and became gray with a pungent sour odor. Bread turned out to be like that, since I added it a little, but still not very pleasant purely aesthetically) So I switched to a thicker one as a result ...

How do you manage to keep the liquid sourdough from peroxidation without killing ICD in the refrigerator? ..

How do you manage to keep the liquid sourdough from peroxidation without killing ICD in the refrigerator? ..

I make it thick and keep it at room (kitchen) temperature. I feed so that two feedings a day are enough.
I bought a small auto-refrigerator where the constant temperature is +10, even got used to bend the seal in the corner and get +12. But I rarely use it.

Did I understand correctly that you keep it thick, and feed and add liquid to the dough?

Admin! Thank you very much for the leaven, for the detailed, patient explanations! The leaven turned out without unnecessary dances. Today I baked the first bread on it. It was "Rye bread on kefir sourdough by the method of long fermentation" from Alexandra. Taste, aroma, rise of dough, appearance - everything is amazing. But I have a question: why did I get a very uneven porosity, that is, next to small pores - large caves like a ciabatta. They did not affect the taste and appearance. What did I do wrong? Baked in the oven in a cauldron (12 minutes under the lid and 30 minutes without). Maybe the dough has stopped? Thank you!

I apologize. Maybe I'm not in the subject and not the author. But now I have collected a little about rainless bread link 🔗 I myself make the leaven \ Eternal \ on wheat flour and then transferred it to wheat. Lives with us for over a year. Standing after kneading - night. In the morning I put it in any shape for 1-1.5 hours to rise. And bake it into gas. oven 40-40 min.

[simulia]

Admin! Thank you very much for the leaven, for the detailed, patient explanations! The leaven turned out without unnecessary dances.

simulia , very happy for you, bake sourdough bread, tasty and healthy
Thank you for your feedback and kind words

Sorry, I saw your message late

Admin, thank you very much for your hard work !!! I bought HP Panassonic 2501. I read, I read, my head is already spinning. I would like to bake healthy bread. I put the sourdough on yogurt. Yesterday I bought it in the store, poured it into a jar and the day she stood in my kitchen. In the evening, at 16.30, she poured a glass of yogurt and added rye flour to the consistency of pancake dough. Stands silent, no movement. Maybe a little time has passed (4 hours). Don't need to cover it? Not crusting? And put in the refrigerator overnight? I walk, look and think.

Admin and girls, brought "thank you" for the detailed consultations about MK starter culture! : rose: I baked bread for the first time with her, the result exceeded all expectations! I have never gotten such a fluffy, airy and elastic bread! And my husband very much approved. .. I usually bake in KhP on a ready-made mixture for baking wheat bread, already with yeast, but it came out tiny, not very high, in short, not to my taste. The addition of vegetable oil helped little. And so, wondering how to remove this crumb, I read the advice that you need to add sourdough to the dough. The sourdough was 3 days old, I didn't even think it would work SO, I added 4 tablespoons per 500 grams of the mixture and increased the proofing time. Yes, instead of vegetable oil, I put three tablespoons of fat with juice that leaked from chicken when frying in an airfryer. In general, now I will only bake with her, with leaven! I asked if the Germans make homemade sourdough. Yes, they do. It is called here "Hermann-dough", it starts on different bases. I also started mine as German - half a glass of kefir, half a glass of wheat flour, the juice of half a lemon and half a glass of sugar. In short, game. Although, perhaps, it's ok for sweet pastries. But I wanted to bake bread! Therefore, when feeding, I stopped adding sugar and changed the wheat flour to rye. She "plays" in my refrigerator, so she froze portions until the next baking. Now I want to try to grow grape.

Girls, I want to ask, maybe I don't understand. I've been sitting here on the site for the second week. I wasn’t going to buy HP (I’m afraid to go all out), my husband ordered dumplings, he’s not at home for months, you have to fulfill your wish. But kneading dough is torture for me. Yeast for pies, cakes - all normal, but knead. I decided to climb in the internet and look for something for relief. Came across this site. Began to read your BREAD! I WANT USEFUL !!! I'm sorting through everything in the store, looking for it, multi-grain, sprinkled with seeds, I don't want to give up bread, I intuitively feel that we need it !!! And if you buy it, it gets moldy in a few days, and what do we eat? So I decided to buy HP and make USEFUL and RIGHT bread for my family. I saw the leaven, so you can send the yeast ... Hurray !!! I watched all the Admin lessons, decided on HP, bought Sonya on January 28, and didn't bake anything. I put the leaven - there are bubbles, but it does not rise, today is the 3rd day. I read recipes - leaven and + yeast ?! Well, what is the sourdough for then? For taste? We suffer from taste all our lives. We do not eat healthy but TASTY. Well put my brains in place. I'm still reading, maybe I'll find what I need, I hope, but I want to try. And patience for me !!! And your support!

The sourdough itself is also yeast, only of a different kind than the ones we buy in the store.
You can also bake bread with one leaven, only it should be strong by this time, and this will not be in a week, but maybe in a month.At first, you can replace some of the yeast with sourdough - a reliable option if the leaven does not work as it should. In principle, we also have a section of completely yeast-free breads, based on soda. Yeast doesn't bother me personally, I didn't like the quality of my bread, although it didn't stale and mold much longer than the store's one. I wanted pomp and elasticity, which is what the leaven helped me achieve. In any case, even yeast homemade bread is healthier and more harmless than the purchased one because there are no flavors, preservatives, etc. So you are on the right track!

Girls, Romochka, tell me! Sourdough 4 days. It does not rise with a cap, but there are bubbles. The taste is already sour. Throw it out? Or you can bake. I really want rye bread.
And further

Good day.
Admin, I've been bucking the Internet for about a week, I also had a desire to bake bread. And here's what I can’t understand: 1) we make the leaven - some of it goes to making the dough - the rest in the refrigerator for the future; 2) after kneading the dough, separate a part - this is the future leaven. And here I have a dead end - are these two independent starter cultures or do they need to be mixed?

You have piled two different doughs together!

1. Sourdough. We prepare the dough with sourdough, when we feed the sourdough and take part of the sourdough for the dough, and put the rest in the refrigerator for storage

2. Old (sour) dough. We prepare the dough with sourdough and put part of the already finished dough in the refrigerator to get a piece of the old (sour) dough, and then use this dough to prepare a new dough for bread. Then again, after kneading, we take a part of the finished dough and put it in the refrigerator.

INFA is here (though by leaps and bounds, but the essence does not change)
How I store and prepare old (sour) dough for kneading https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=159691.0
Wheat bread on old dough dough (oven) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=71685.0

Thank you for your quick reply, I went to study further.

Hello Admin!
Three weeks ago I grew kefir sourdough (thank you very much for the detailed instructions), fed it with homemade yogurt, the sourdough raised the bread wonderfully.
And today, instead of lactic acid something, I fed her with water and flour. Can you please tell me if you can continue to use it (already feeding it correctly) or do you need to make a new one?

Tatyana, in your first post for some reason you can't see the very first photos?

Tatyana, in your first post for some reason you can't see the very first photos?

This is Radical so mocking us.If I find it on my computer, I will repeat it through the site gallery

This is Radical so mocking us.If I find it on my computer, I will repeat it through the site gallery

Thank you so much. I really want to see how the starter culture looks, otherwise I'm afraid that I'm growing this out of inexperience.

Admin big request for help to understand the technology of sourdough. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Sour milk was fermented with homemade milk. But as you said before the separation to the liquid from the bottom. Added sifted rye baker's flour (Fair). And she (leaven) does not want to ferment. From above it is covered with mold and does not bubble. What to do???

Olya, the leaven may not express your emotions vividly, it may not bubble a lot. For a start, it is advisable to cheer her up, stir several times a day, feed her with air. I described in great detail the process of making the leaven, look from the first page of the topic.
At first, she may have a quiet demeanor, then strong activity will appear.

Do it again, try

Good evening!
My story is this:
2 months back I put the leaven on kefir (nothing worked with water with flour). She grew rapidly and made me happy. In the future, she fed only with water and flour (either the highest grade, then whole grain. Wheat flour). I baked sourdough bread without yeast. The bread got better and better gradually. It rose remarkably, was not sour. And the aroma! .. But 2 weeks ago, the bread began to settle during baking and acidify.The recipe is the same. Proofing is always 3-3.5 hours. I sinned for torment, but in vain. The leaven after feeding increases by 3-4 times in 2 hours, even in the refrigerator, per day in the refrigerator peroxides so that the glanic acid. Although I leave 30 grams before feeding, I add 100 g of water and 100 g of flour. I tried to proof the bread for 2 hours, the result is the same. I tried to put the dough on both hungry (24 hours after feeding) and fed sourdough (2 and 4 and 6 and 8 and 12 hours after feeding), no change. I decided to put in quite a bit of leaven; today I baked it. I put 1 tbsp. spoon and yeast Saf moment in full from the basic recipe from the recipe book from the bread machine. This sourdough infection suffocated all yeast. I baked in the main mode of the bread machine, the bread rose twice, but fell again, the roof collapsed during baking, sour, the crumb crumbles. I sent them to the trash can after the previous ones. And the most terrible thing: what kind of monster have I managed to cultivate? What kind of infection lives in my leaven that suppresses yeast in 30 minutes?
Advise what to do with it?

Hurrah!!!!!!!!!! The matter turned out to be all the same in flour. It was not just bad flour, but a terrible fake. Now everything is great! The leaven smells like it should, the bread is delicious!

Accept the report! We have not bought bread for 2 years already, we bake our own bread with lactic acid sourdough, pure rye, without adding wheat flour and yeast. True, the dough turns out to be heavy, neither a bread baker nor even a combine can knead this, so with handles, handles! But bread is a feast for the eyes :-)
Thank you Admin for the idea and information. Although I had to go my own way anyway - well, I didn't want to grow sourdough on store-bought dairy products, even crying. We raised the girl on yogurt from village milk, and now we are feeding her with whey. She behaves, however, not like yours, but the family is happy with the result, friends are happy to accept our rye loaf as a gift. When bread is baked, such is the aroma ... cozy ... homemade .... :-))) So thanks again!

Thank you very much for the sourdough recipe, Admin! I baked bread for the first time in my life! In the absence of a bread machine, I baked in the oven, did the kneading using a mixer with dough attachments, fermented it on farm whey, it came out the first time, now I have developed two simple basic recipes - white and rye, after "running in" I will share ... All success!

Girls bake sourdough bread, you're good at it! Thank you for your kind words, it's nice to hear your feedback!

Hello! Does the aged whey not give off bitterness? I was aging for several days, it tastes so unpleasant. Natural milk from a cow. I want to try to make sourdough, only bitterness confuses me ...

She fed the mature sourdough with overdone whey, which she would not even dare to try raw - so she ground everything, there was no bitterness in the finished bread.
But this is a mature one, in which the bacteria have already agreed on how they will live and who is in charge.

Thank you!
I just started to study leaven. And my question is ripe - is yeast an indispensable component when baking with MK sourdough?