Choosing a dishwasher

And then, we load the PMM into the cart and take it to the service, to wash the insides of the fat. (look on the forum there have already been "funny photos" for cleaning the insides of the PMM after such an operation) And at the same time we are preparing $ 200 to replace the ion exchanger. That's the kind of savings

Not in this thread, but ... What about a gel for washing with soap and calcium. soda? What happens to washing machines?

Tell me, what is the price for them and where can I buy?

can you put your city in your profile? I bought it from us in the "Family Quarter", if you have a Metro card - there definitely is cheaper. we have 560 rubles a pack. and there are only 28 pieces

Sash, but for some reason it washes me better than everything separately. the girls above wrote somewhere, too, that the tablets are better washed, I already adjusted the powder and the rinse aid.

Pour in a little more powder, adjust the rinse aid and salt supply to the water hardness. Once again, the tablet is designed for some average hardness and degree of contamination. She, unfortunately, does not have intelligence and cannot self-regulate. If you want to save money, you will have to use separate funds.

After the pills, I most often had a feeling of "underrun" dishes. I had to wash and rinse additionally. With a liquid agent, there is no such thing, there is no smell of perfume either. But, the salt indicator is on all the time ...

can you put your city in your profile? I bought it from us in the "Family Quarter", if you have a Metro card - there definitely is cheaper. we have 560 rubles a pack. and there are only 28 pieces

Obviously, this turns out to be 20 rubles. per pill ...
We don't have them at all
I looked in online stores, it turns out that there are not so many places in Russia where you can buy.
In M-Video, it turns out to be 21 rubles. per pill. It is necessary to go to the regional center.
On Ozone at 17.27 r. per tablet without shipping costs.
Probably I'll take here:
🔗

If you take 3x48 with delivery, you get 2100r. (14.59 per tablet).
Plus they write that from Germany.

For some reason, with other means, a white coating remains on black objects (knife handles, thermos lids, etc.),
although I use a rinse aid.
And with these pills, everything is fine.

... I want to try Claro, but I can't find it here.

Girls, I used Claro powder, I definitely do not recommend it. Awful powder! It is very difficult to dissolve when washed in a dishwasher, there is an abrasive, it can be seen after washing on the lids under the handle. At first I did not understand where the sand came from, very fine, in color like an ordinary building one. I had to unscrew and rinse the sand cover under the tap. After washing with this powder, an indelible whitish line appeared down the door from the powder dispenser. These are the "bonuses" from the Austrian manufacturer. Now I use this powder only for soaking dishes in the sink; By the way, if you soak the dishes with the remnants of the dough in a small amount of any powder for PMM, the dough is very easy to wash.

I also noticed sand after washing on the cans, only after the Japanese charmi. I thought it was some kind of sediment from the water

[Sudness]

Sudness Active links on the forum are prohibited! In Novosibirsk, the water is quite hard, you need to increase the salt, adjust the powder (reduce) the rinse aid add a little and then look at the degree of pollution

These are the "bonuses" from the Austrian manufacturer. Now I use this powder only for soaking dishes in the sink; by the way if you soak dishes with dough residues in a small amount of any powder for PMM, the dough is very easy to wash.

The dough is very easily washed off if you add st. l vinegar. Eco-friendly, cheap and cheerful

[Ksusha]

The dough is very easily washed off if you add st. l vinegar. Eco-friendly, cheap and cheerful

Ksusha
I know about vinegar for a long time from Ludmila's LJ (mariana_aga). For me, using vinegar is by no means cheaper.

Margit, start making vinegar at home.

I’ll take out all the Claro powder and start!

Omela, this is apple cider vinegar, right? So there is a topic on the forum, here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=31094.0

Girls, I used Claro powder, I definitely do not recommend it. Awful powder! It is very difficult to dissolve when washed in a dishwasher, there is an abrasive, it can be seen after washing on the lids under the handle. At first I did not understand where the sand came from, very fine, in color like an ordinary building one. I had to unscrew and rinse the sand cover under the tap. After washing with this powder, an indelible whitish line appeared down the door from the powder dispenser. These are the "bonuses" from the Austrian manufacturer. Now I use this powder only for soaking dishes in the sink; By the way, if you soak the dishes with the remnants of the dough in a small amount of any powder for PMM, the dough is very easy to wash.

the same problem with top-house powder, not only is it sand, so it is pressed with a stone - you can't chop it off with a knife (I store it in a dry room, after opening, I pour it into the plastic from colgonite (by the way, it's also bad). no, the dishes shine, removes limescale from tea perfectly.

I have two bags of Ariel the same ... Pressed into stone in a tray. Therefore, I cooked a washing gel. And in PMM I have not used tablets since I repaired the machine, well, it is easier to adjust the hardness for the product and rinse aid. And from the pills, and the smell was like a freshener - nasty and a feeling of not being well-rinsed ... I use liquid Japanese - it washes well, but it's expensive ...

I have two bags of Ariel the same ... Pressed into stone in a tray.

It was like that with Tide. It was so compressed that she called the master. He said that with Tide and Ariel, many have it. And you need to put the powder directly into the drum of the washing machine. For 4 years now I have been doing this in a box (or whatever you call it) from the amway.

[sazalexter]

sazalexter, a question. Since last summer she moved to live in a private house. We have a well. The water, kapets, how hard, it can be clearly seen from the scale in the kettle, the boiler was dismantled - they were simply stunned by the amount of scale. BOSCH car. It washes well, but sometimes dried water droplets remain on the glass and gray hair can be on the walls of the car. How to properly adjust the means for PMM? And which is better?
p. from. I use somat, everything is separate. Now I switched to somat-gel + salt is always in the car. It seems a little better. Once a month I run the PMM with a special agent (also somat).

Thank you.

Hard water is still flowers ... I have such rust rushing out of the well that the horror of what is done with the equipment, even through a bunch of filters. I need to splurge on an expensive deferrization complex, and for you on a cheaper water softener ...

[sazalexter]

sazalexterHow to properly adjust the means for PMM?
Thank you.

Soften water from the well with a purification (softening) system based on ion-exchange resins. Adjust the ratio salt-detergent-rinse aid.

People who have used phosphate-free powders?
I bought SADOSAN on my head, now nothing is really washed off, it's just awful about spoons / forks! Covered with a whitish coating, like dirty. Something similar happens with glass. I tried to adjust the rinse aid, little use. I have a rinse aid Domolovsky. Maybe you should buy SADOSAN, maybe it will wash normally in the original bundle?

People who have used phosphate-free powders?
I bought SADOSAN on my head ...

I'm sorry - are you allergic to phosphates?

I'm sorry - are you allergic to phosphates?

Yes, it seems like no. I've seen programs about the harm of phosphates, silicones, parabens and the like
The question is different, it's just me shitty Does the phosphate-free powder wash badly or is it spoiling everyone's nerves?

Well, it seems like it's no secret that phosphates are harmful to the environment in general, and to the skin of each of us in particular ...
Why not push all manufacturers to replace phosphates with sustainable components? Demand creates supply. While people are buying phosphates, they will be sold to us (Europe has forbidden for itself, but for Russia it is possible)
In washing powder, a worthy replacement is zeolites. I don’t know about funds for PMM, maybe they’re the same ... I haven’t delved into it yet.

It seems strange to me to talk about the fact that life is generally harmful ...

I've been washing my clothes for 2-3 years with ecological phosphate-free products and I'm VERY happy. They wash almost everything perfectly. In extreme cases, you run at 60 degrees with oxygen bleach and fruit and berry stains disappear without a trace.
Of course, I did not immediately select the proportions and type of powder, but I did.
When in a foreign city you have to temporarily use conventional mass media, then, firstly, a chemical smell hits the nose immediately, and secondly, it is very tiring to search for a powder without optical brighteners.And with optical brighteners, all cheerful children's and adult things very quickly become sad and pale

Well, what is worse than the dishes? We eat from it ...

So far, I use these natural and eco-friendly products to wash the dishes with handles. The result is excellent, the smell is also beyond praise. All the same, natural essential oils are even strange to compare with cheap smelly artificial fragrances.
Expensive? Perhaps, but my skin and the skin of my loved ones are worth it. It is better to save on something else.

I haven't tried dishwasher products yet (I still need to install a machine), but I really want to choose a natural, ecological powder and rinse aid for myself.
It's a pity that only Amway are mentioned here from environmentally friendly means (even Greenpeace doesn't like them, and I don't have any trust either), well, someone also casually recalled Frosch (Frog?) A couple of times, and the Japanese ...
Somehow not a lot ...

It seems to me that everything here depends on the price of the issue. Natural and environmentally friendly products are much more expensive than mass phosphate products, the production of which has long been debugged, optimized, and affordable for the middle class, and even below the average. Of course, it is possible to ban such phosphate products, as in Europe, but then, for example, I do not even know what and what I will wash the dishes with, and whether to use PMM at all. I’m okay - I have a private sector, sand and ash will always be found. And what about those who live on the floors?
And such natural and harmless means are simply not enough for the entire Slavic post-Soviet space, IMHO ... And we have already passed this: as a result, there is a shortage and an even more inflated cost ...

Sweet Hedgehog, can you tell me what kind of powders you use that wash well?
By the way, eco-friendly Frosch washes dishes very poorly. Clare was recommended to me, but I haven't tried it myself yet. But they say that it washes well.

I disagree.
It only seems that environmental problems do not concern us personally.
I saw what the once clean fish ponds in the Moscow suburbs turned into, after they began to rinse linen washed with these very "folk" phosphate products. A deplorable sight

Okay, let's leave alone those who rinsed the linen there ... they have no Internet, no PMM, no washing machines even ... Although, every year they appear more and more often in the villages. Even in the absence of running water.

But are we with you?
Since we earn on the Internet and PMM, then even more so on eco funds.

I make on average 3 purchases of detergents and cleaning products per year, totaling 15,000 - 20,000 rubles. (in a year).
And this despite the fact that the family is large and three small children. The machine plows 3-4 times a day. The dishes are also mine in tons (still by hand).

But at the outlet, the water is such that it can be watered flower beds. Everything is biodegradable.
And the smells are natural.

Do you think it is very expensive?
I'd rather give up perfume, expensive bags and other luxury. But children will wear clothes washed naturally.
Again, such products are much more careful with the fabrics, and therefore, things wear out more slowly, the colors do not fade (of course, provided a good dye, that is, those that fade in clean warm water).

I noticed that everything that is useful, naturally, is environmentally friendly, many somehow perceive with hostility, they say, fashion is everything ...
IMHO, not fashion, but common sense and care for their descendants.

Without fanaticism, of course, but as far as possible.

Rita, I will answer you in a personal message as soon as I figure out where I have it.

To be fair, I will say that not all eco-friendly products are good.
Once in the city of Kharkov I bought an expensive liquid detergent. The promises on the packaging were just right ...
But it didn't wash at all. Even if the recommended dose is increased by 3 times.
That's how they rinsed in water ...
I did not remember the name. This is the first time I've seen. The packaging is so-so, from which I concluded - a fake. Such a trap for all eco lovers.

Now I carefully not only read, but also examine the appearance. An expensive product cannot look cheap.
In a word - guys, let's already look for something worthy for PMM.
I'll just connect my PMM, immediately start testing and share with you. I hope that by autumn there will already be something to tell

Rita, I will answer you in a personal message as soon as I figure out where I have it.

Why? I'm interested in the identity. and many, I think. And the fact that the discussion is so zealous, so it is a forum, people are different and different points of view.

Ok, I'll share the stamps.
Only, I repeat, I have not tried the means for PMM machines yet. But I tried it and was very pleased with powders, washing gels, oxygen bleach (although it can be found in ordinary household stores at a much cheaper price), toilet bowl, bathroom and glass cleaning products.
These are the brands Ecover and Almavin. I like the second one more, but more expensive.
Ecover's hand dishwashing detergent is simply awesome - it washes like Feri, but it smells gorgeous and protects the skin.
There is also a little thing like this at Ecover - you apply it to the stain and into the washing machine as usual with powder. Washes stains well.

People use soap nuts to wash clothes at high temperatures. But I haven't used it yet. In general, I wash at 30-40 degrees most often. This is not enough for nuts.

Again, if you are talking about savings, then it is profitable to buy large packs and then pour and pour into smaller ones. Plus, shipping is usually free on normal volume.

[Sweet Hedgehog]

Sweet Hedgehog, so no one argues with you that it is not necessary to save the environment, or it is undesirable to use natural environmentally friendly means. Only this should all take place on a national scale with the most direct state regulation: to reduce the supply or production of phosphate products, to increase the supply or production of phosphate-free ones. Otherwise, all these calls are not worth the price - they do not have enough (funds) to satisfy everyone, and at least somehow significantly influence the environment. One in the field is not a warrior, but a thousand tons of natural remedies on a scale of our countries to improve the ecology - what is the grain of an elephant ... One cannot improve the ecology here by personal heroism and example ...
And yet, these funds are still very expensive. Here you say But at the outlet, the water is such that it can be watered flower beds. Everything is biodegradable. And the smells are natural. Do you know exactly what kind of water flows through your pipes from the tap? The majority of the population is dirty, rusty, with impurities such that my mother is dear ...
And, besides, you need to take into account the surrounding reality in which we live: you are sure that environmentally friendly detergents on natural "pistils and stamens" will wash away the chemistry that is in our atmosphere, in our rainbow-colored puddles with gasoline, in our acidic rains? I doubt it, however ... the wedge is knocked out with a wedge ...

Don't you doubt
Why, if natural, then immediately on pistils and stamens?
There are also minerals.

For example, Ecover is a company that has done a lot for the environment in general.
For example, it has developed a product for removing oil slick from the seas and oceans.
And they began to make phosphate-free powders long before it turned out that phosphates harm the environment.

I'd rather pay these people than keep pouring phosphates into powders for the third world .... For profit.

Are you sure that there are very, very many minerals instead of very, very many phosphates - this is much better than the opposite? As for me, so that on the forehead, that on the forehead ... And such "natural" companies profit from us no less, if not more ... There are no free pies with Foie Gras ...

It feels like I'm attacking you, and you are defending ...

Yes, I am sure that you can wash and wash dishes using natural means. And they work great.
And not necessarily "very, very many minerals." What for?
Dishes and mustard are perfectly washed, everyone knows that.

I remember that I had an internship at school in D / S (type of labor education) and washed pots and trays from cutlets with cold water and mustard. To my great surprise, they were washed wonderfully.

Of course, with your hands - this is one thing, in the PMM and the washing machine - another. But for this there are compromises, namely, such are the means.

Well, as for soap nut, it is generally ridiculous to write it into products that are potentially hazardous to the environment.
By the way, speaking, my husband, well, a very economical and skeptical comrade, having tried the dishwashing liquid (by hand), did not comment in any way, BUT, he ordered to buy more at once, so as not to overpay for delivery

And, again, the parents of small children surprise me a lot: they buy "baby" powders for a lot of money, like, they are softer, etc.
Have they read the composition?
There are the same phosphates and optical brighteners.
The question is, why is it so expensive if it is harmful for the baby's skin and kills colors?
No, we buy baby powder, it’s sacred (at worst, we’ll rub the soap with our pens, not knowing to see that such washing of the machine ruins only on the way). but the eco product is dear to us ...

It feels like I'm attacking you, and you are defending ...

Absolutely not. Normal calm dispute about nothing ...

Yes, I am sure that you can wash and wash dishes using natural means. And they work great.
And not necessarily "very, very many minerals." What for?
Dishes and mustard are perfectly washed, everyone knows that.

Natural remedies, according to reviews on this and other similar forums, in very rare cases, satisfy users. It seems that you will be the first to be satisfied with the quality of the wash / wash.

I remember that I had an internship at school in D / S (type of labor education) and washed pots and trays from cutlets with cold water and mustard. To my great surprise, they were washed wonderfully.

Of course, with your hands - this is one thing, in the PMM and the washing machine - another. But for this there are compromises, namely, such are the means.

Well, as for soap nut, it is generally ridiculous to write it into products that are potentially dangerous to the environment.

No mustard, and even more so a soap nut at all (in the required production volumes) can not be enough. You understand that very well ...

By the way, speaking, my husband, well, a very economical and skeptical comrade, having tried the dishwashing liquid (by hand), did not comment in any way, BUT, ordered to buy more at once, so as not to overpay for delivery

And, again, the parents of small children surprise me a lot: they buy "baby" powders for a lot of money, like, they are softer, etc.
Have they read the composition?
There are the same phosphates and optical brighteners.
The question is, why is it so expensive if it is harmful for the baby's skin and kills colors?
No, we buy baby powder, it's sacred (at worst, we'll rub the soap with our pens, not knowing to see that such a washing machine ruins only on the way). but the eco product is dear to us ...

All our children live in this far from perfect world, including ecology. Therefore, there are two ways: you can undead as possible and protect them from an unfavorable environment, and they will die out by themselves, like dinosaurs, or you can live with this environment according to its new rules, unfavorable, harsh, but rules ...

Natural remedies, according to reviews on this and other similar forums, in very rare cases, satisfy users. It seems that you will be the first to be satisfied with the quality of the wash / wash.

Here on the forum yes, which really surprised me.
In other forums it is different, although it depends on the focus of the forum.

In real life, I was somehow more fortunate, around me there are people striving for natural as much as possible and prosperity.
In particular, I have several close friends who enjoy using eco products. And they are very satisfied (not with all products, of course, everyone chooses for themselves).

All our children live in this far from perfect world, including ecology. Therefore, there are two ways: you can undead as possible and protect them from an unfavorable environment, and they will die out by themselves, like dinosaurs, or you can live with this environment according to its new rules, unfavorable, harsh, but rules ...

In part, I agree. That is why my children suckle for as long as possible, they are fed not according to the calendar, but as soon as they are ready, and not with cans and mixtures, but with ordinary human food, etc.
I am in favor of adapting to the world around me with both hands, because I am not ready to leave the wilderness and engage in subsistence farming.
But something tells me that the future belongs to those who fled ...
And therefore, I am also for changing the world for the better, for enlightenment, for an informed choice, etc.

If we go back from the global to the particulars, then I know not by hearsay what "adaptation failure" is. Our children do not have time to mutate. Everything changes too quickly ... It is very difficult for a person. You should not aggravate and rush to extremes. Where it is possible to soften and instill good habits - this must be done.

You are right, the water in the pipeline is not ice, so what? Let's add some more rubbish. Let them get used to it ...
On the contrary, I am for filters, for eco products, for homemade food. Well, and the air is really there ... And in all other respects you cannot isolate them ...
Only useful habits to instill (at first, to yourself) ...

You are right, the water in the pipeline is not ice, so what? Let's add some more rubbish. Let them get used to it ...
On the contrary, I am for filters, for eco products, for homemade food. Well, and the air is really there ... And in all other respects you cannot isolate them ...
Only useful habits to instill (at first, to yourself) ...

Well, we're just here for homemade food. For the maximum number of products that we can make ourselves, and not buy them in the store.

Our children do not have time to mutate.

I didn't understand about mutations. I believe that none of us should mutate.

I didn't understand about mutations. I believe that none of us should mutate.

Mutations are not necessarily negative, they can also be positive.
These are changes in DNA.
They were and will be. As a reaction to environmental influences.
It's just one thing when some external factor grows gradually and the species adapts from generation to generation.
And it’s another thing when it’s so sharp and a lot (over the past 30 years, they have not thought of anything).

At the expense of home meals, you are great. That's why I go to you, I read, I study

They never left it. There have always been mutations. Another thing is that the last 100 years technologies have developed very strongly, the ecological situation is rapidly deteriorating. Well, there is no need to talk about the chemical intrusion into our daily life, everyone is very well aware of it.
If the descendants (distant) survive, they will adapt. But we and our children are grabbing in full. At least our childhood fell on a relatively clean period. And our children got everything at once, and without genetic reinforcement from the adjusted ancestors.

I can’t say about myself that I’m very dumb, but I read Temko and don’t understand anything. Maybe because the technician is unfamiliar to me?
In general, in speed (well, I hope so) my kitchen will be ready, the machine is in the package, I would like to start using it after installation, but I just can't figure out the intricacies of detergents
We only saw Calgonite tablets, salt and powder on sale, for some reason I did not see the softener ..
Girls, pills are bad because they are expensive or pills are bad in principle?

You can shower me with whatever you want, but .... I switched to washing dishes in the old old-fashioned way ... by hand!

I got stains and films on dishes, any dishes from glass to black and metal pots!

I tried all the pills that I could buy in the store and on the Internet - stains and a film on the dishes remained!
I tried different proportions, and the whole pill and half ... the stains remain!

Now ALL the dishes! mine after every cooking and eating - 100% pure and without streaks! And there is no whitish film on the dishes!

The car was washed, cleaned, is in the kitchen as a decoration, until better times

[pills]

Girls, pills are bad because they are expensive or pills are bad in principle?

Well, it's just that there is one dosage for everything about everything. It does not depend on what water hardness you have, the degree of soiling of dishes, etc., etc. And when everything is separate, we already set the hardness level ourselves, the salt consumption. Here is Admin ...

You can shower me with whatever you want, but .... I switched to washing dishes in the old old-fashioned way ... by hand!
I got streaks and films on dishes, any dishes from glass to black and metal pots!
I tried everything pills, which I could buy both in the store and on the Internet - stains and a film on the dishes remained!
I tried different proportions, and the whole pill and half ... the stains remain!

I don't know if she tried it with powder. When I bought the PMM, I studied the entire forum and immediately bought everything separately. I quickly adjusted everything and is happy like an elephant

I haven’t tried it with powder, but so far there’s not even a desire. I came to the conclusion that a dishwasher is necessary when there are a lot of large and greasy dishes, or bulky dishes that are voluminous and laborious to wash by hand in the sink.

And right now, with the old-fashioned way, my dishes are clean, and I'm happy like an elephant!

And I like liquid detergents.

[Ksyusha]

And I like liquid detergents.

Ksyusha, translate, plizzzz - what are these? For the dishwasher?

[Tatyana]

Yes, Tatyana, for PMM. I used to use Lyon (Japan), but it was very expensive for me. Now Gel Finish. The dishes do not suffer so much (do not scratch), as from the powder, the consumption is small (I pour literally 1 hour. L.) And rinses off better. IMHO.

Here's one.

[Ksyusha]

Here's one.

Ksyusha, ready - I photographed the purchase on occasion and I'll try!

KsyushaThanks for the tip!

As far as I remember, there were even advice to wash Teflon and knives in PMM with this gel, since there is no abrasive in it.

I also use this gel, I really like it

[Admin]

Admin Tatyana! I use Finish almost all the time, no problem!
Remembering to clean the machine with the recommended products

Even aluminum can be washed with Japanese gel, it does not turn black, it has been tested in practice.