Kolobok is my rac. sentence

The gingerbread man sometimes does not want to be such in shape, pretends to be a jellyfish or in general ... And when with rye flour ... Here, I came up with a little rac. suggestion: do not add sunflower oil immediately. And pour it into a bucket when about half of the kneading time has passed. And we will immediately help the bun to acquire its shape (especially if with rye flour)
I liked the bun! Try it, maybe my "ratsuha" will suit you.

The gingerbread man sometimes does not want to be such in shape, pretends to be a jellyfish or in general ... And when with rye flour ...

And what's the difference, what is the shape of the bun and does it look like a bun at all? Especially with rye flour ... The main thing is that the bread should look like bread.

Basically there is a bun, which means it will knead the dough well. You yourself know what a bun with rye flour. And try what I advise, compare.

[Rem]

Rem

excellent rationalization proposal
It is interesting that you yourself came to him))

And in bakery this technique has been used for a long time. This is the so-called "improved" two-stage kneading, when unleavened dough is first kneaded, without fats and salt, it is allowed to "rest" for about 20 minutes. (autolysis) so that the flour absorbs water calmly, and the dough turns into a viscous and elastic one. If fats are immediately mixed in, they envelop the starch molecules in the flour with a film and prevent the latter from freely absorbing water.
I read that the authorship of this technique is attributed to prof. Kalvel, however, is advised to stir in the oil last in the old recipes (before Prof. Calvel).

Vaughn and Scarecrow I read about it in some culinary textbook

But already with the subsequent kneading, yeast, salt and, closer to completion, fats are added. Thus, an excellent dough is obtained. If I am not in a hurry at all too hopeless, then this is exactly how I knead the dough for my breads.

[Zest]

Zest, and you always knead the dough with your Kenwood or in HP too? I'm just thinking how to apply this technology (with the introduction of oil in the last turn) to the modes available in HP. When I put the "pizza dough" - there is a 30-minute kneading and an hour proofing. And if you need a 20 minute break, maybe then kneading in the "dough for dumplings" mode (15 minutes kneading, then rest for 20 minutes, and then a full 1.5 hour kneading?)

[kava]

kava

In the vast majority of cases, I knead with Kenwood.

And if I use x / n, then I do so. just do not throw slippers, I have already been reproached for interrupting programs in the bread maker and I urge others to follow such a vicious example.So, if someone believes that interrupting programs can harm the stove, then you should not follow my scheme

Of course, it is impossible to withstand the tube-to-tube technology in a bread maker. But still, what I get in the end is much better in quality than just downloading everything right away and choosing the Dough program.

In Panasonic, before the start of each program, the stove stands for a while and does nothing (equalizes the temperature), that's exactly the time I use for autolysis.
So, I load all the ingredients into the oven, except for salt, yeast, fats, turn on the Pizza or any other program for 5 minutes, so that the kneading starts immediately, and the products are gathered "to a heap", turn off the program, immediately turn on the Dough program.
Until the very beginning of the program mixing, autolysis lasts for me)) After 5 minutes after the start of the kneading, I add yeast and salt, closer to the end - oil.

Sometimes I use the leveling time for the dough or for passing the rye or whole wheat flour through the sourdough.

How is it with the Mulinexes - I don't know, probably, you can act according to the same scheme, only at the beginning, knead for a short time on some kind of prog, turn it off, and after 20-30 minutes. turn on the dough.

[Zest]

just do not throw slippers, I have already been reproached for interrupting programs in the bread maker and I urge others to follow such a vicious example.
Zest! Interrupting the bread maker program by pressing the buttons on it (including the mains button) can damage neither the electronics nor the mechanics. This is a calculated situation. I myself use a 7-minute memory when the power is turned off.

[kava]

kava

So, I load all the ingredients into the oven, except for salt, yeast, fats, turn on the Pizza or any other program for 5 minutes, so that the kneading starts immediately, and the products are gathered "to a heap", turn off the program, immediately turn on the Dough program.

And why the program Dough, and not Baking Bread?

Zest bakes with sourdough, makes kneading with a kneader, and here she painted the same process, but in HP. After the products have gathered to the "heap", autolysis takes place ... read her Temka, it can help https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9229.0

Aah, I see. Zest in HP only makes the dough, the rest is in the oven. Thanks for the tip.

[Yuri60]

Yuri60

you reassured me)) I myself get around with all the buttons quite unceremoniously - I interrupt the programs and combine them in the sequence I need. But on the forum several times the opinion was expressed that interrupting programs can lead to premature breakdown of the bread machine.

vik222

yeah you Suslya I answered everything correctly

So, I load all the ingredients into the oven, except for salt, yeast, fats, turn on the Pizza or any other program for 5 minutes, so that the kneading starts immediately, and the products are gathered "to a heap", turn off the program, immediately turn on the Dough program.
Until the very beginning of the program mixing, autolysis lasts for me)) After 5 minutes after the start of the kneading, I add yeast and salt, closer to the end - oil.

Zest! A great way and a solid scientific base.
(and how I missed this post ...)

I myself, without going into the intricacies of autolysis, only because of the inability to control the "health of the kolobok" when baking experimental breads on the timer, I have been practicing my version of your kneading method for a long time.

Program "dumplings dough" (it kneads more energetically at the beginning than the "pizza" program)
I load: flour (and everything else: bran, flakes, dry onions, etc.) + water with dissolved salt.
I achieve (with flour or liquid) a good kolobok. I turn off the stove.
I put yeast next to the bun. Vegetable oil (a piece of butter) into the hole on the bun.
I choose the desired program, start the timer.
All !
Excellent results every time.

[Uncle Sam]

Uncle Sam

great option when using a timer! A complete guarantee of a consistently good result!

And intuition in baking bread is a great thing Directly led you to a completely scientifically grounded way

very interesting ... I'll try in the evening when I bake rye ... Thanks for the ideas !!!

And I always did this, my HP allows pauses and modes to change in the process. Thus, in all the moss books, even Sovdep's books were advised to knead the dough, but here it turns out there is also a theoretical justification.

[kava]

kava

After 5 minutes after the start of the kneading, I add yeast and salt, closer to the end - oil.

How do you knead butter into dough? My gingerbread man just spins and does not knead ...

I add a little bit until it interferes. It is better to do this with a combine. Recently, I switched to mixing with a mixer - also an option. If you add all the oil to the kolobok at once, then of course there will be oil separately, and the kolobok separately.

I add a little bit until it interferes. It is better to do this with a combine. Recently, I switched to mixing with a mixer - also an option.If you add all the butter to the bun, then of course there will be butter separately, and the bun separately.

Thank you! And I tried to put it in the bun inside the hole, it all poured out, the bun is running, I shovel it, he does not want - in general, a madhouse! I poured three tablespoons of milk powder, let's see what happens. Now baking.

Nothing, skill comes with experience. At first, it is really difficult to resist the temptation to add flour, but then the fat is absorbed and the dough becomes elastic and smooth.

[There is a topic Help ... that's there and let's discuss and ask questions on the topic.]

Well, why do you lump all the questions together - my dear

There is a topic Help ... that's there and let's discuss and ask questions on the topic.

Health to all !!!
For 3 years now I have been baking white: nyam: bread using this technology: first I set the "dough" mode (Panasonic 2502), the bun is kneaded, it is brewed for 2h20min. On a signal, I turn off the stove and wait for the dough to rise to the height I need, it takes about 40-45 minutes and I turn on the baking for 53 minutes. The bread turns out to be tall, light and fluffy, and how delicious it tastes!

[Teak]

Teak, A question can be from a beginner? What signal, in more detail? I only have a signal for adding additives. How to navigate in this case?

[and closer to completion - fats]

But already with the subsequent kneading, yeast, salt are added and closer to completion - fats... This creates a great dough.

Yeah, this is how I tried to add. I won't risk it anymore. It is better to mix everything at once.