Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

Bread in proportions, as usual with a convex, but cracked roof - and this, in principle, outwardly proportional and regular bread sits in a rectangular crispy bucket-shaped bread cup - the bread in this "ice cream waffle cup" reaches the middle of the height of the cup

Here's a joke! Do you know why this could happen? First, the quick yeast worked - they raised the bread. Then the bread stood and its roof fell. Then the slow yeast from the sourdough got into the work and saved the day - they slightly raised the roof, and they would have raised it even more, but then baking began, hence the cracks.
Conclusions :
The starter must be at its peak in order to work at the same time as the yeast.
Observe the flour-liquid balance, perhaps you incorrectly took into account the water from the sourdough, the dough turned out to be liquid and fell off so much.
At least at first, monitor the rise of the starter dough and manually adjust the start of baking
Something like this

There was not enough liquid.

Apparently, the flour tortilla on the side of the bread has the same reason.

But what can explain the crisp, tasty "ice cream cup" on the sides of the bucket in which the bread was sitting? I don’t know.

And this is again an experience, in my opinion
Sometimes you knead and see straight - it's thick !! The gingerbread man is hard, you poke it with your finger and rests on it.
Therefore, I always do not sleep enough flour initially in new recipes, I put less than the amount indicated in the recipe. And if there is still little flour, it is easier to mix it in than to add water to a thick bun. It's my opinion

At least at first, monitor the rise of the starter dough and manually adjust the start of baking

Well, yes, the conclusion is obvious.

[Svetlana]

SvetlanaEverything, I’m silent Leavened yeast bread is more complicated than just yeast

Sergei, learn theory first and practice. As you understand, move to the desired. It does not happen that the fruits appear before the sprout itself. It is necessary to start with an elementary simple yeast COLUMNS.

[Svetlana]

SvetlanaEverything, I’m silent Leavened yeast bread is more complicated than just yeast

Sergei, learn theory first and practice. As you understand, move to the desired. It does not happen that the fruits appear before the sprout itself. It is necessary to start with an elementary simple yeast COLUMNS.

Yeah

[Sergei]

Sergei, I agree with Natalia - most likely there was simply not enough fluid. Hence the cracked roof and the remains of flour on the sides of the bucket.
Was your starter 100% hydrated? 100% is the same amount of flour and water. According to the recipe, 350 g of flour is obtained with 350 g of liquid (I also take into account flour with sourdough water). Pretty decent, but it may turn out that now the air is very dry and the flour has dried up a lot. There is such a moment - in wet weather, flour can take in less water than in dry weather.
The sour taste of the bread is an overripe sourdough. The starter culture contains yeast and lactic acid bacteria. The latter produce acid, it is important to properly refresh the leaven before baking and not let it stand. That is why I have now stopped baking white bread with sourdough - there is not much time for dancing around the leaven, and my family does not like the extra sourness in white bread.

And for the future, drive everyone away from the bread and take pictures of it Whole and always cut. From the photo it is easier to guess what and where to subtract / add.

[Anchic]

Anchic, Anya, here I also thought so at first that it was probably normal, logical. And Sergey did it "Glass"from the crust and in it insufficiently risen bread .

in principle, outwardly proportional and regular bread sits in a rectangular, crispy, bucket-shaped bread cup - the bread in this "ice cream waffle cup" reaches the middle of the cup height.

But Sveta drew attention right away It seems logical to me this option

Here's a joke! Do you know why this could happen? First, the quick yeast worked - they raised the bread. Then the bread stood and its roof fell. Then the slow yeast from the sourdough got into the work and saved the day - they slightly raised the roof, and they would have raised it even more, but then baking began, hence the cracks.
Conclusions :
The starter must be at its peak in order to work at the same time as the yeast.
...

In general, I have not seen such phot of bread.

Knowledgeable people do not take pictures of this, because this is a marriage. And those who do not know and do not know that this is a marriage, because they have not seen the photos

And the glass was delicious - just like ice cream!

Any crusts, they are always delicious You just got a glass of crust

To bake sourdough bread in CP with the addition of yeast, you need to know both yeast baked goods and sourdough ones. Anyway, I understand so. After all, you just have to combine.

Added Sunday April 10, 2016 6:48 PM

Photographing ... pictures are of course the most eloquent.But that is not the topic of photography

About the fact that everyone, everywhere and everything is now being photographed:

A restaurant. Visitors are having lunch. The waiter comes up and asks:

- Why don't you photograph food? Didn't you like it ??

Knowledgeable people do not take pictures of this, because this is a marriage. And those who do not know and do not know that this is a marriage, because they have not seen the photos

Photographed and photographed ... Moreover, with a good camera, from different angles. Then they ate the glass, ate the bread ... And then it turned out that there was no flash drive in the camera, while the shutter lock without a flash drive was disabled - he was shooting. No flash drive! This is how it goes.

By the way, I also decided that it was a marriage. But in real life it turned out that the glass was incredibly tasty, and the bread was reduced without question. So, in fact, it's not a marriage at all :)

And then it turned out that there was no flash drive in the camera

This is how it happens ...

But in real life it turned out that the glass was incredibly tasty, and the bread was reduced without question. So, in fact, it's not a marriage at all :)

It's a marriage, but edible We also always eat if it's tasty

[Sergei]

Sergeiwhen a marriage is delicious is great, not so offensive

[Sergei]

Sergei, in French mode there are always delicious crusts. Try French bread with butter and milk powder from the instructions. Vkussnoooo

The composition and quantity of ingredients for the Regular white bread recipes on the Main mode and the Diet on the corresponding mode are completely identical. The only difference is the cooking time.
What can this difference give?
Has anyone tried comparing bread baked in these two modes?

I think the difference is in the flour. For the Diet, take whole grains or something.

In bread makers for Europe, this regime is called "Whole Grain", not "Diet". Rather, there are 3 of them: "Whole Grain", "Whole Grain Fast", "Whole Grain with Raisins". In all recipes for these modes, the content of whole grain flour from the total amount of flour in the recipe is 50-100%.
The duration of the programs is precisely justified by the fact that the flour is different and it takes more time to get good bread as a result.

[Marina]

Marina, Natalia, Thank you

Added Monday 11 Apr 2016 11:16 PM

The second bread - on a timer in the Main mode according to the standard recipe from Panasonic has already been baked without a hitch - high, elastic, airy. The spatula fell out of the bread.

But since I don't really like white bread, I would like to try to bake wheat-rye bread. A similar recipe was found in the standard instructions for HP, but the ratio of wheat and rye in it is 80% to 20%:
mode Basic Low-yeast bread - Dry yeast 3/4 tsp; Wheat flour 400 g (80%); Rye flour 100 g (20%); Sugar 1.5 tbsp. l .; Vegetable oil 1.5 tbsp. l .; Salt 1.5 tspl .; Water 330 ml

I would like to change the proportions of wheat and rye - about 50% to 50%. Probably, an increase in the amount of rye flour should lead to a change in the amount of water, yeast? What considerations would it make sense to follow when changing the proportions of wheat and rye flour?

The Specialists will correct the considerations of the presence of the appropriate mode and the scapula, but in my opinion, unfortunately, you cannot get off with only changes in the proportions of the ingredients - you can do without a scapula, but you will have to be wise with freelance on / off switches (if the required mode is not in the available model). However, you shouldn't be so disapproving of the 80/20 ratio - you certainly won't get Borodinsky from it, but if the recipe contains red malt and chicory (or panifarin, although I personally don't like it), then the bread will not be white. taste or color. It is possible to remove excess richness from pure white by pouring a couple of tablespoons of bran into it (it is useful for digestion and tastes better, even when using 100% premium flour, it is more "bread")

[rs]

rs, Sergei, try this to do. It's not so difficult there, but, you see, you will like it.
By the way, I also haven't baked pure white for a long time. My last favorite, as I already wrote, is Natashin "Daily", but I replace part of the white flour with whole-ground rye Garnets, 4 cereal flakes and flaxseed. Dry yeast half a teaspoon. I bake in French.

[rs]

rs, try Wheat-Rye Bread "French" by Boka. It has a 3: 1 ratio. You can add bran to it. Vkuuusny!

[Sergei]

Sergei, the bottom line is that if you choose recipes with a 50/50 ratio, that is, additives to wheat flour do not exceed half and at the same time you will take strong flour as wheat flour. from. or 1st grade (but also strong), then the behavior of the bread will still remain, like from wheat flour. The strength of wheat flour in this proportion still lifts any dough.
That is, you can choose any recipes with such a proportion light.
The only ambush can be if you again take with the leaven, and she will raise the dough not on schedule. That is, use a starter with a strong lifting force for standard HP modes, so that it works in time and force like standard yeast, and you will bake without any dancing with tambourines.

But as soon as you choose recipes with a preponderance to the rye side, the already complex "rye baking" begins. If you choose recipes with yeast and ready-made oxidants (such as vinegar, etc.), then these will be simplified options, but aerobatics begins with rye breads with sourdough.
In real rye bread, it is precisely the work with the leaven in the dough that becomes important. That is, such recipes will be the most difficult for you.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, even kefir instead of water contributes to the rise of rye added to wheat dough.
But this, of course, is all under manual control.

Hello, please tell me, I bought myself a bread maker. Panasonic SD-2502, for the first time in my life, I ordered Termipan super yeast, please tell me, I did the right thing, and how to use this yeast, thanks in advance

I use these

🔗
🔗

So it turns out that I chose the wrong yeast for myself

[Sergei]

Sergeimaybe Fermipan and not Termipan? If yes, then very good yeast, I have been using it for a year already, but they are very active, the yeast rate should be reduced, added to flour, not liquid.

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=136712.0

Sorry, I made a typo. Fermipan.

Posted Friday 15 Apr 2016 11:13 AM

If those, please tell me how to use them in the same way as in the instructions for the bread machine, or put less in the dispenser than indicated in the instructions ??

Sorry, I made a typo. Fermipan.

Posted Friday 15 Apr 2016 11:13 AM

If those, please tell me to use them in the same way as in the instructions for the bread machine, or put less in the dispenser than indicated in the instructions ??

Well, if your HP has a yeast dispenser, then if not, put it there so that they do not come into contact with water, for example, under flour, since in our HP, they are first dry, then liquid. And the amount should be slightly reduced than in the recipe.

I have a Panasonic sd-2502 bread maker, the dispenser, in theory, should work automatically, sorry for being naive, but this is the first time I come across a bread maker, how much to put in this spoon

how much to put in this spoon

in different ways, everything depends on the recipe.

Sorry, but you can somehow be more precise, thanks in advance

[Sergei]

Sergei, but more precisely, it all depends on the flour that you use or what you do (bread or buns, rich bread), on the amount of flour according to the recipe and on the cooking program. For example, in French, I use less yeast than in the main one.

sorry for being naive, but this is the first time I come across a bread maker, how much to put in this spoon

The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes

For beginners, help section CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"

Especially the subsection MASTER CLASSES for KNITTING THE TEST (BOLS)

Thank you very much, I will understand

Sergei, you first bake without a dispenser, put a shiver, then flour, then dissolve the salt-sugar in milk or water (depending on the recipe) add butter .. and watch, bun.

I remember myself when I just bought it, it was good that there was where to read and I chose 3 years .. I already knew a little what was going on, but it was still scary :)))

[Lika_n]

Sergei, Lika_n gave you great advice. Do not touch this dispenser at first! This infection sometimes does not open. To get started, buy the Saf Moment yeast, as in my picture and follow the instructions for a simple but very tasty bread (in the menu this is program 01). First, bake a loaf sized M... Put the yeast in a small measuring cup full and pour it into the bottom of the bucket. Further - flour 4oo g - water 260 ml. Dissolve sugar (large measuring cup full) and salt (small measuring cup full) in water. Finally, add the sunflower oil (large measuring cup). All! There were never any punctures.
And with the yeast that you ordered, you will experiment later.
Good luck to you!

This infection sometimes does not open.

for yeast, it always opens up for me, I always put dry ones in it and everything is always good.

I have for additives (here's the problem with it) no, it always opens, but never closes.

I have been using a yeast dispenser since day one. Always works

Thank you all very much, I will understand, I did not think that there would be so many tips, thanks again

and mark - always dissolve sugar-salt in a liquid .. for a bucket it is so LOOK :)) will not scratch.

and mark - always dissolve sugar-salt in a liquid .. for a bucket it is so LOOK :)) will not scratch.

Not necessary. With the correct setting, the salt / sugar will dissolve on its own in the liquid. They lie between flour and water. For half an hour that the stove stands, everything dissolves there. And does not scratch

Nobody says what is necessary. But that's more convenient.

Tell me too, please. If I want dense white bread with fine uniform grain, non-crumbling, so that I can easily smear the butter on top and with a pronounced taste, then I need to bake more rich bread with milk or an egg? Or maybe there is a recipe?

Tell me too, please. If I want dense white bread with fine uniform grain, non-crumbling, so that I can easily smear the butter on top and with a pronounced taste, then I need to bake more rich bread with milk or an egg? Or maybe there is a recipe?

You are not new to HP baking and have tried different recipes. Probably convinced that the baking method in hp implies a lot of fluffiness. That is, on pure flour c. from. there will always be fluffy bread. With the addition of rye flour, it is denser. And the addition of baking, milk also gives a denser bread.

The solution for pure wheat will only come in extra effort.

But your question can be split into separate two.
1. non-crumbling. Tinyness occurs for two reasons. Non-fermentation, that is, there are few enzymes in the dough. This is fought with the use of doughs and ferments, an extended fermentation cycle or the use of special improvers that are used in production. The lesaffre website offers a bunch of options for such enhancers (you can see what they contain).The composition of the flour is changed for a particular effect.
At home, whey is an example of such an improver.
An example of tasty non-crumbly wheat bread is, for example, a recipe from Natasha.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=430257.0

On the forum there are examples of the use of starter cultures, old dough, old kefir for crumb rubberiness.

The second reason: increased mixing.
Regarding the hp of Panasonic, it can be noted that the hp in the Russian version kneads bread universally, taking into account most tastes, but this does not mean that it is impossible to knead more.
From the above, you can apply dances with tambourines in the form of a double start of the kneading cycle and see the result. You might like this more. Or, first, knead on Dumplings, and then start another mode of your choice with kneading after standing.
But with this approach, it will be necessary to adjust the amount of yeast. This will increase mixing and lengthen the fermentation cycle.
You can use the long-term dough method, but in parallel add kneading both the dough and the dough after. That is, you have to experiment for yourself.
It's not really about the ingredients in the recipe, you need to change the kneading method, take a recipe according to GOST, for example, analyze what is there and how and adjust it to HP.
But ... this is how you solve the crumbling issue.
Ps. The same question was asked on the site to professional technologists:
What can the moisture or dryness of the cake crumb depend on? With the same recipe, it turns out juicy, then dryish. But it is precisely the dryish-airy, stretching crumb, there is no crumbling. Tasty, but I like it better when it comes out wet.
Answer.
Good day.
If we talk about industrial production, then the parameters of kneading (the worse the dough is kneaded, the more crumb will be the crumb) and the amount of water for kneading, the quality of flour (water absorption capacity, the amount and quality of gluten) can affect.

But the fluffiness already depends strongly on the volume of filling the molds and the method of baking.
2. Fluffiness.
If you want to get rid of the fluffiness, then almost the only way out is the oven. In the oven, you can adjust the evaporation of moisture from the workpiece.
And also like in Easter cakes: they filled the mold 1/3 puffier, 1/2 tighter. You can try to use third-party molds in HP with different filling of the dough, but in HP there is an imitation of baking with steam and reduced evaporation from the workpiece just for fluffiness.

Therefore, additional movements are needed to imitate bread by density as in a store.

3. Medium option. Change the shape of the product before baking in HP. Perhaps you just don't like holes in bread, then this option will solve your problems.

(I stole the information from Lyuda, a famous bakery Guru, with great gratitude. She has a photo, but I don't know how to put them here. But the principle is clear. last proofing)
I quote:

"1) The dough is in the bread maker. It is ripe and the oven has rolled it into a ball - a blank for bread. The panel near the oven shows that there is 1h 50min left until the end of program # 1.
2) Dump the dough onto a lightly floured table
3) lightly powder, straighten it into a thick rectangle and wait, from time to time we measure T of the surface of the dough. It should drop from 30-35C to at least 26C.
4) Before molding, we decide what kind of porosity we want.
If the dough is like for rolls or baguettes, donuts and lush fried pies, then we save bubbles in it and just sculpt the dough as it is into a French roll, baguette, roll, sitnik or pies, etc.
And for tin bread, even porosity is usually desirable so that the jam does not flow through the holes in the slice. Then you need to get rid of the bubbles in the dough, squeeze them out.
You can pierce them with a chekich or a hedgehog for ikebana
Or you can squeeze them out with a simple rolling pin, roll them and that's it.
5) For bread, we twist-fold the dough into a ball or an oval smooth "loaf"
6) We put the blank in a mold - native from a bread machine or some other, or on a baking sheet, if it is pies, a loaf in the oven.
At this point, there should be about 1 hour 35 minutes until the end of the cycle "Basic white bread": 40 minutes of proofing and 55 minutes of baking.
7) Take out the finished bread from the oven, from the mold. Allow to cool for at least 45-60 minutes on a wire shelf. It continues to bake, you should not cut it if steam rises in the cut. Early.
Well, then cut it
"
In general, with the help of additional molding, interesting effects can be obtained. Look on the website for methods of forming for various porosities, and as a result, fiber in a loaf of bread. Rolls, etc.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, mom daragaya, you are a storehouse of information
Natasha's recipe has already been studied, but in our latitudes, whey can only be obtained by homemade method, but I still can't do it. I'll try to stir a teaspoon of sour cream in water and leave it warm for an hour. And I will increase the bookmark - now I bake 500 grams of flour, and I will make a double batch. Once again I am convinced that bread is not just a fall asleep and go
Thanks a lot for the ideas

good morning, with whey - you shouldn't have, brought kefir to a boil, that's all, I did this and also for the first time in my life, here is the whey for you. Whey-based bread really tastes better

[Elena]

Elena, bring kefir to a boil - is that how you make cottage cheese? You cannot bring to a boil, it will not turn out cottage cheese, but boiled protein, it will look similar, but the effect and usefulness are different.

[not good]

brought kefir to a boil, that's all ...

there are subtleties.
Guru-Luda explained that I am quoting
"thanks to whey, ripe yeast dough contains almost one and a half times (40%) more lactic acid, which significantly improves its quality. The dough with the addition of whey absorbs and retains water better, becomes stronger and at the same time more elastic. The bread is more fragrant, fluffier and much better stored. "
BUT
Serum is different. "Alive" and warmed up above 40 degrees, with milk bacteria killed in it. In the heated whey, useful substances, acid are preserved, but the bacteria necessary for fermentation of the dough die.
The heated whey can be added to the dough if
"- because you have nowhere to put it, and GOST allows you to mix whey into the dough in certain quantities (no more than 1% of the flour weight in the recipe),
- because whey is part of the bread recipe, that is, it is mandatory there
- as a substitute for part of sugar (up to 10g of sugar in the recipe, those 1% of the weight of flour, can be replaced with dry cheese whey),
- as a substitute for molasses (15g of molasses can be replaced by ATP), or
- as a substitute for milk powder or dry buttermilk in the recipe (replace in a 1: 1.5 ratio)
- as a nutrient medium for yeast activation, for fermented infusions

But she not good to accelerate the maturation and fermentation of the dough, because
- it is fresh and even alkaline (non-acidic)
- it has very little lactic acid, almost 4p less than curd whey
- in it no live lactic acid bacteriath which would help improve lactic acid fermentation in dough made from flour with low ash content (very white flour). "

That is, for the miraculous effect of improving the properties of the dough, you need "live whey", unboiled))) and not supercooled))) in the freezer, and the whey with live bacteria.
Luda's tips for obtaining whey can be found:
"1.
so that the serum is expressed faster, I mix yogurt with kefir 1: 1 and then it will quickly drip as much as necessary! Instantly. While the yeast is soaking and the ingredients are weighed, the whey is ready
2.
Bake any yeast pastry so that you replace from a quarter to half of the liquid in the recipe with acidic live whey (strain from sour cream, kefir or yogurt). When I talk about live whey, this is not the one that is obtained by heating curdled milk in a saucepan in order to get cottage cheese, but the one that is obtained by simply draining from a live lactic acid product or by clinking curd.
For example, if kefir is left at room temperature, then it matures and begins to split into a clot and into whey full of live lactic acid bacteria and yeast (there is wild yeast in kefir).
If you strain the clot on gauze or a strainer, then in the gauze you get clinked cottage cheese, in the dishes under it - live serum, with active lactic acid bacteria. An excellent equivalent to acidification of dough with live leaven without leaven!
3. If there is no desire to add whey or something fermented, then during kneading it helps to add 1-2 tbsp to the dough together with the liquid according to the recipe. l. apple juice concentrate. We sell this in ice cream. Only water is mixed with it and natural apple juice is obtained. This concentrate is unsweetened and acidic enough, rich in organic acids to acidify the dough, but at the same time mild in taste, does not change the character and aroma of the baked goods.
With apple juice concentrate, it’s a miracle what kind of pastry is obtained, whether in buns or in pies. Super delicate and non-hardening even in the refrigerator compared to regular yeast baked goods
"
I read on our forum,
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=1344.0
in this topic, girls use Tang and ayran as a source of whey and also mentions in the topic a sweet drink based on milk whey with all sorts of juices, etc. etc., the name of the drink is Twist, they are made under the Aktual brand, we produce our Petmol from Unimilk. The full name is a whey drink with added fruit juice and enriched with vitamins.
But whether the serum is alive or not is not clear. Theoretically, if not cheated, then it should be alive.

Is this how you make cottage cheese?

no, this is how I make serum, no more

Hello everyone, today I made my first egg bread, with French yeast, I made books from the oven kit according to the instructions, everything turned out very well, thanks for the advice. Now I want to ask you if you can, of course, please give me proven recipes for Easter cakes (sweet, delicious), specifically for my model of the Panasonic sd-2502 stove, thanks in advance

no, this is how I make serum, no more

So make cottage cheese, there is whey and cottage cheese, two in one.