Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

Here is fsya lyuboff!

Don't look for Nordic!

Thanks for the advice. So I will not try to find him anymore, Otherwise I always look out for him

Nordic is somehow too under 300 rubles. for 2 kg it costs, for which I have the itch of a curious novice baker, but just pay so much for wheat flour ...
Well, now at least I heard how it differs, 3 grams more protein.

I have not yet seen flour with a protein content of more than 10.3g in Moscow and the region

flour "Landowner Krupnov" has protein 12 per 100g.

[Sens]

Sens, thank you. We must look, at least try to bake bread with such flour.

[unequal]

Do you know everything about proteins? Here, as with cholesterol, which is "bad" and "good"

"... The proteins contained in different types of flour, unequal... The flour of the lower grades contains many proteins, which are part of the shells and the aleurone layer. They are poorly absorbed by the human body and swell weakly when kneading dough ... "
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And this is for lovers of Italians:

"... Look at the bag of premium flour, and you will see a sign entitled" Nutritional value per 1 00 g of product. " 10.3 g, i.e. 10.3%. So, from a baking point of view, this is a weak flour? So can you bake bread out of it?
Yes, of course you can, and wonderful bread! The main difference is that a home baker in Russia and, for example, in Italy will take different amounts of water for the same amount of flour. If you bake according to foreign recipes, count the water down ... "
And here it is even more interesting:

"... You and me, bakers, in this case are not interested in any proteins, but only in those that form gluten. That is the total amount of protein in flour may be higher, and the amount of proteins that form gluten is lower... This is exactly the case with whole grain flour ... "
Read the rest here: 🔗

for the same amount of flour, a home baker in Russia and, for example, in Italy will take a different amount of water. If you bake according to foreign recipes, count the water down ... "

Left to think a lot!

Left to think a lot!

what to think? We look at the flour-water ratio by the bun, and not strictly according to the recipe ...

[Vitaly]

Kolobok rule saves everyone Track, bring to the desired, write down!
Vitaly, thanks for the information !!!

I need to redo the

Track, bring to the desired, write down!

I tracked it down, brought it to the right, wrote it down, and for a year and a half I have already put it at night and go to bed. Everything is strictly according to the recipe. Voyukanie with adding flour and adding liquid remained in the distant past. Essesno, I mean bread for every day.
In the morning I get this
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In the afternoon I bake when I want to cook sausage
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[Waist]

Waist, but what does a bun look like with such a flour-water ratio?


on the main program the ratio is 400gr-260ml

Thalia, what does a bun looks like with such a flour-water ratio?

I don't remember baking for a long time. The result was excellent. I did not correct anything then, I did it exactly according to the recipe. Hell only simple French.

In the neighboring the girl has already baked the topic "French Country Bread" according to the recipe from this picture.

In another topic, I promised to translate the recipes from my instructions for the "Italian" mode.
The girls in the topic "Russian" helped me with grammar. Thank you very much!
... Since the picture is not readable through the forum gallery,
LEAFLET WITH RECIPES, see the links in the spoiler.

I’m even ashamed to ask Thalia, but everything is exactly correct in terms of not so much grammar as mathematics? Because there in the picture everywhere in the recipes it is written - 1 teaspoon of sugar. Surely not a canteen?
I was going to try to bake, but I doubted, and I don't have enough experience to figure it out on my own

[Veronica]

Veronica, in all those recipes exactly 1 h l sugar, I checked there recipes with cheeses, tomatoes, olives ... So they shouldn't be sweet

[VENIKA]

VENIKA, secretly - sugar can be adjusted to your liking. You can not put it at all.

[If you bake with foreign recipes, count the water down]

The main difference is that a home baker in Russia and, for example, in Italy will take different amounts of water for the same amount of flour. If you bake with foreign recipes, count the water down...

As for the water ... according to European recipes, they bake in Russia without changes and everything works out, that's a fact!

I think you can safely bake exactly according to the recipe.Well, if you don't like something, then adjust it, adjust for specific products... This is done in all countries.

Thalia, Anchic thanks a lot for the quick clarification on sugar! Because for me, due to inexperience, baking is a mixture of pieces of "science" and delicious mysticism (it will probably get bored with time, but for now it's so exciting - pour all sorts of things into a bucket, wait, then open - and there is a fragrant bun where there is a rabbit from a cylinder ) I was convinced that sugar is needed for the yeast to "work". Therefore, the slightly sweet bread from the "usual" recipe was perceived as a necessary evil. Now it will be necessary to experiment with decreasing

Now you will have to experiment with decreasing

First bake according to the recipe so that there is something to compare with.

I was convinced that sugar is needed for yeast to "work"

I'm not convinced, but I think so too. In HP, time is limited and the yeast needs help. If the dough is given a lot of time to ferment, then sugar can be neglected.

Sugar in the form of sucrose - yeast does not need it. They eat the sugar in the flour. Namely, sucrose inhibits the development of yeast. That is why a lot (much more than for ordinary bread made from the same amount of flour) yeast is needed for butter dough. The amount of sugar that is added to ordinary bread dough is almost invisible to the yeast and does not affect its original amount.

[Anna]

Anna, but in practice? Did you bake bread in a bread maker according to a standard recipe, removing all the sugar from it?

[Waist]

Waist, I regularly bake sugar-free bread. Ludmila's LJ from Toronto was very helpful. Unfortunately, she deleted it. Now she has LJ, but there is no priceless information that was in it. Our site has recipes from her magazine. The same French sourdough from her magazine came here. So, in her LJ there was a recipe for French bread by Raymond Calvel (I hope that the name is not misinterpreted). Its composition is minimal - flour, water, salt and sourdough. Again ciabatta - flour, water, salt and yeast https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=120769.0

[Anya]

Thalia, I regularly bake sugar-free bread.

Where are you baking? in the HP or in the oven? What are the recipes?

Anya, I know perfectly well that "free" bread can be made without sugar.

I ask exactly about bread from beginning to end made in HP... No dough, no leaven ... with yeast, for the same 4-6 hours.
PS: There are recipes without sugar for HP, and I even baked, but I completely forgot

[Waist]

Waist, I don’t bake without dough in principle - I don’t like such bread. In CP, you can bake bread without sugar, since yeast does not need sucrose.

[1 tsp Yeast + 400 g of "strong" flour (type 550) + 1.5 tsp. Salt + 1.5 tbsp. l. Olive oil + 260 ml. water (mode 8/9 for different models).]

I also became interested! Since I had completely forgotten university biochemistry, and I hadn’t really mastered baking yet, I had to figure it out.
As a result of the "showdown", I still partly disagree with the respected Anchic - yeast eats sucrose for a sweet soul, but since it needs to be broken down, the yeast (like our body, by the way) is at first taken for the available glucose and other monosugar, which easier to digest.A significant amount of glucose suppresses the activity of the yeast enzyme invertase, which breaks down sucrose, but after the "glucose breakfast" the time for the "sucrose lunch" still comes. As for an EXCESSIVE sugar, it also suppresses the activity of glucose breakdown by yeast (and due to the difference in osmotic pressure, if add 10-15% of sugar from the mass of yeast at once, it will flatten them corny). In general, the system is in dynamic equilibrium and a prolonged absence of sugar is no less harmful than a one-time significant excess.
And I also found some less abstruse and more "baking" details about sugar and fermentation on the website of one of the Zooengineering faculty (maybe someone will be interested)

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As far as I understood, the breakdown of sugars when using "dough" and when "quick" baking in a bread maker are two very big differences.
So give sugar to the masses! But without fanaticism and abuse, of course - everything is good in moderation))
On the other hand, I found in the English-language instructions for Panasonic SD-2500/2501 on the manufacturer's website confirmation that you can bake Italian bread without sugar in a bread maker (if there is no typo in the recipe):
1 tsp Yeast + 400 g of "strong" flour (type 550) + 1.5 tsp. Salt + 1.5 tbsp. l. Olive oil + 260 ml. water (mode 8/9 for different models).
Maybe try to bake it?

P.S. According to the description of the recipe above - in the English-language instruction that I found, the 8/9 mode is called "Italian", which is not at all in the "Russian" version of Panasonic!

As far as I understood, the breakdown of sugars when using "dough" and "quick" baking in a bread maker are two very big differences.

That's right, two big differences.
Yeast reduction has been discussed recently. In practice, it has been proven that it is possible to reduce the yeast in half, and completely cook such bread in the French mode. It is clearly seen that a decrease in yeast should be accompanied by an increase in time, and in CP it is limited.

1 tsp Yeast + 400 g of "strong" flour (type 550) + 1.5 tsp. Salt + 1.5 tbsp. l. Olive oil + 260 ml. water (mode 8/9 for different models).
Maybe try to bake it?

Of course, if someone does not want sugar at all. This recipe is from a general instruction, which is in five languages ​​and the recipe is the same for everyone.

P.S. According to the description of the recipe above - in the English-language instruction that I found, the 8/9 mode is called "Italian", which is not at all in the "Russian" version of Panasonic!

The most suitable for replacement is the "Diet" mode.

[Panasonic CD-257 Wheat-rye bread "French"]

I ask about bread from beginning to end made in KP. No dough, no leaven ... with yeast, for the same 4-6 hours.

Look here on the forum recipe Panasonic CD-257 Wheat-rye bread "French".
There is no sugar in it. (Sorry if not the topic).

[Yaroslav]

Yaroslav, Everything in the subject
Yesterday I could not remember where I saw an Italian recipe without sugar, and Veronica found it.

Already both "French" and "Italian" without sugar, but at the same time, "Italian" increased the amount of yeast by a quarter tsp.

In my instructions, a simple French recipe is also sugar-free.

[1 tsp Yeast + 400 g of "strong" flour (type 550) + 1.5 tsp. Salt + 1.5 tbsp. l. Olive oil + 260 ml. water (mode 8/9 for different models)]

On the other hand, I found in the English-language instructions for Panasonic SD-2500/2501 on the manufacturer's website confirmation that you can bake Italian bread without sugar in a bread maker (if there is no typo in the recipe):
1 tsp Yeast + 400 g of "strong" flour (type 550) + 1.5 tsp. Salt + 1.5 tbsp. l. Olive oil + 260 ml. water (mode 8/9 for different models).

Veronica, there in all five languages ​​the same recipe for Italian bread
Since it is unique in its own way, I added this recipe to the leaflet with other "Italians"
LEAF WITH RECIPES see the links in the spoiler.

Updated! Added recipe "Italian bread (no sugar)"

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Highlight any of the links and click "Open in New Tab". A full-sized, good readable picture will open. Can be copied and printed

girls, how to replace powdered milk for French bread for 6 hours?

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, water oven See 2 recipes here
And if you still want bread and milk, then add whole milk instead of dry + water.

[Waist]

Waist. I know milk + water. And the proportions?

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, read about proportions here

And indeed, the whole Temko, there is only one page, but very informative

Replacing milk powder with regular

[Waist]

Waist, Thank you so much

[VENIKA]

Now both "French" and "Italian" without sugar

Here, there is happiness in life: if you want bread with sugar - breads with sugar, if you want without - you can bake without it

VENIKA, thanks for the information, very interesting.

Hello. I have 2501. I baked bread according to the main recipe. Everything is fine. With bread, in general, there are no problems. Threw it and wait ...
Now I want to bake pies. There are many dough recipes in the instructions. What's the best recipe for pies? The forum, of course, offers a lot, but I'm a beginner. I need it exactly according to the instructions for my bread maker.
I tried to bake out of dough "for whites". It looks like nothing, but the dough is thin and dry.

[tascha]

tascha, which dough for pies is better - everyone has their own taste. In your HP, you can knead any dough in the dough mode. My mother-in-law began to use the recipe for buns "for 9 kopecks" for pies. They like this dough very much. HP is a tool though. And she can knead almost any dough. Except for very hard (noodle type) and very wet (ciabatta type). Everything else is up to your taste.

In your HP, you can knead any dough in the dough mode

There are several dough modes in my bread maker, and several recipes. If anyone has 2501, tell me which dough recipe to use for which pastries? For example, there is Basic (13), Simple (13), whitewash (13). Which of these three should you take for pies? Or maybe just a dietary one (15)

[tascha]

tascha, and here on the forum do not want a good recipe for pies to pick up?

Twice in a row I baked pure wheat bread (400 gr. Wheat flour) and wheat-rye (350 gr. Wheat flour + 50 gr. Rye flour). I noticed that the latter rose less than the first. Is it rye flour weird or is it time to change the yeast? Tell me please!

[Wit]

Wit, this is the composition, since rye flour makes the dough heavier, so the bread turns out a little lower. I think this is the reason.

[Wit]

Wit, I think that rye flour has less gluten in it. I always have less bread with buckwheat, rye, and whole-grain flour. And I rarely bake pure wheat white

I think so too, Nastenka and Katenka. I just had doubts about my confidence and confidence in my doubts (straight according to Zhvanetsky). Does this mean that you need to increase the amount of something (yeast, water ...)?

[Wit]

Wit, you are not satisfied with the result or the size? Why add something?

[Wit]

Wit, nothing can be added, this is normal. Add yeast or water - you can get a sunken roof. If you absolutely need bread of the same size as wheat, this will be achieved by increasing the ingredients. Pure wheat is obtained from 400 grams of flour, and pure rye from 400 grams of flour will not reach half a bucket. Their combination is something in between in size.

Thank you my dear! Now I understand everything.

[tascha]

tascha, I have 2502. And in my stove there is the notorious temperature equalization, that is, the kneading starts at least 30 minutes after turning on the stove. Therefore, in general, I knead all the dough in the Pelmeni mode And then I just give the proofing (well, I turn on the timer on the phone or the oven for 1.5-2 hours, depending on the type of dough). And then I do whatever I was going to do - I sculpt loaves, pies, buns, or whatever else was there according to plan.

Vital, in such a proportion I liked the bread on the "French" oven. It is tasty, and high, and I put half of the yeast.

I'll try this, Marinochka

And I, too, will try such bread in the French mode, with half the yeast norm - it's good. Marin, how much flour is the bread for 400 grams?