Yoghurt with bacterial starter cultures (narine, VIVO, etc.) (2)

[Fotina]

Fotina, interesting capsules, even if you order one can + delivery, it still turns out profitably. Is inulin for 1.5 liters of milk too? What's the point? And why does the sourness turn out, I wonder? He's not sour.

The dosage of this inulin is 1 teaspoon per day. Otherwise laxative effect)). Somewhere on the network I read that the girl added 0.5 tsp. per liter - I tried it, I did not feel the difference. Well, a little sour. I didn't connect it with inulin, and next time I added 2 tsp.)) The sourness was distinct. Now I added one spoon (I recently received it for baking, then I only found out that it is possible to use yogurt too), I ferment it only three times with inulin.
I think I'm overexposed. The prebiotic enhances the growth of probiotics and is likely to ferment faster. And I don't follow - I put the yogurt maker at 8 o'clock, and at the end of the time it beeps.

And I don't follow - I put the yogurt maker at 8 o'clock, and at the end of the time it beeps

I put it in a yogurt maker for 6 hours, but I try to keep track of it, because it doesn't have to be day after day. Sometimes it's done earlier, sometimes later.

Prebiotic enhances the growth of probiotics

Does it enhance ??? Inulin seems to be not even digested, or almost not digested. And it should not affect acidophilic bacteria. Maybe add it to yogurt after cooking? It's not sterile, is it? Adds some other living creatures to milk. By the way, acidophilic bacteria should give sourness and viscosity to yogurt.
I have Narine-forte, a liquid sourdough, ferments in a multicooker for 6 to 10 hours. I also constantly check. And it's not always clear what it depends on ...

I have been making yoghurts for a very long time. And it always surprises me when they write in the subject that they cook yogurt for 6 - 8-10 hours.
And I always have a question in my head - why so long?

When using any technique for making yoghurt, when using different types of starter cultures, yoghurt is ready in 4-4.3 hours, without snot, exfoliated whey, homogeneous, smooth, without sourness.

I have been making yoghurts for a very long time. And it always surprises me when they write in the subject that they cook yogurt for 6 - 8 hours. And I always have a question in my head - why so long?

During this time, my yoghurt is prepared from the already awakened sourdough in tefal, but it cooks on the verge of a temperature of 42 degrees, and I cannot say that it does not overheat a little. And this is killing useful flora. So I just bought a new yogurt maker in which you can set the temperature level and cooking time. I checked it, the temperature is exactly set. If I set it at 39 degrees, then vivo cooks from the sourdough powder for 7-8 hours, and at 40 degrees it cooks for 6 hours. I don't cook at 42 degrees so as not to overheat. I conclude that the higher the temperature, the faster it prepares, and the more likely it is to kill the beneficial microflora. In short, I am completely satisfied with the new device. I tried to make sour cream from cream and sourdough powder, it turned out great, but it took 9 hours to cook.

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, I have a fresh photo under the spoiler, today.
Made on VIVO sourdough in a multicooker at a rate of 36 ". (The multicooker keeps a stable temperature, checked with a thermometer).
It was cooked in 4 hours 30 minutes.

1. Different milk.
2. Different amounts of starter culture per jar.
3. Is the milk preheated before setting
4. Whether the leaven is awakened or in powder.
Because from the woken up, I also cook in 4-5 hours.

I cook from different milk. What is at the moment.
Warm up slightly if milk is immediately from the refrigerator.I used different leavens. What were they at the moment, awakened or not. The result is always stable at the exit after 4-4.30 hours.
This photo is made of VIVO powder.

And I don't heat milk. This is rather the whole difference. I do this to prevent milk from coming into contact with an extra number of containers and the possibility of additional bacteria entering.

I don't always heat milk.
By mood.
The cooking time does not change from this in any way, maybe for some minutes. But not for a few hours.
My thought was creeping in like this: people probably put on the yogurt program and forget for all the cooking time that is jammed in the device program.
And if you check the readiness of the yogurt in advance, how will the program end?

Does it enhance ??? Inulin, it seems, is not even digested, or almost not digested. And it should not affect acidophilic bacteria. Maybe add it to yogurt after cooking?

to be honest, I can't say with certainty))
But they write that prebiotics are "food" for probiotics.
The capsules contain not only acidophilic bacteria, it is a complex.
Maybe one of them is responsible for sourness. But when fermented only with them, there is practically no sourness. Not bland, but very balanced taste. Sourness appears with inulin (I, on the contrary, counted on a certain sweetness)))

The cooking time does not change from this in any way, maybe for some minutes.

That is, your milk in a multicooker heats up in a few minutes and then does not overheat?
Let me doubt this, because physically it is in no way possible.

Warm up slightly if milk is immediately from the refrigerator. I used different leavens. What were they at the moment, awakened or not. The result is always stable at the exit after 4-4.30 hours

I don't heat milk and sourdough. Milk is usually at room temperature, leaven from the refrigerator. I cook in a yogurt maker (orson or shteba). In winter, when the house is heated - at least 6 hours. But in my kitchen it is always no higher than 20 degrees in winter. Summer also depends on the ambient temperature. If it's hotter than 25 hours outside, it's hot at home. Then 5 hours. Of course, I check before the timer goes off. But I already know in what conditions it will be faster, therefore I set the timer I need for the approximate time of readiness. For me, the timer is a bell so that I don't forget about yoghurt. Sometimes you get so busy at home that you forget.

It also depends on the volume. In the Shteba cans of 180 ml will be a little faster than in Orson by 1.8 liters. Some yogurt makers have even less volume - 100-140 ml, it will be even faster there.

In fact, there are many factors. The same draft, somewhere there, somewhere not. But 8 hours for industrial starter cultures like Vivo is a lot.

[Taya]

Taya, I have live starter cultures, narine-forte from Laktomir. Homemade milk, always boil and cool to 40 degrees. In the morning I heat the leaven on the table to room temperature. It turns out 30 ml for 1-1.5 liters of milk. Fermented for 7.5-8-9 hours. And I would be glad to cook in 4 hours, but it does not work. And it won't work earlier. It is these bacteria that multiply at exactly this rate. If you ferment from the bottle earlier, this is a reason to think about whether something is superfluous?
But if I re-ferment, then yes, very quickly, 2-3 hours. The amount of starter culture increases greatly, from 30 ml to 200 ml. But it is not a fact that the necessary bacteria multiply during over-fermentation. You cannot create absolute sterility in the kitchen.



Fotina, are these yogurt starter capsules? Are they liquid? Or do they just drink them? And ours have already adapted for yogurt
The composition is standard, acidophilus ideally gives acidity. But which of the bacteria will multiply more and faster, no one will say))

[Elena]

Elena, regular capsules, yes.)
I now took them for their intended purpose, after the antibiotic)



Regardless of the starter culture. I noticed that with UHT milk, yoghurt turns out to be denser. And pasteurized, which I bring to a boil and cool, gives a looser structure. Not yogurt, but it looks a little like it.

And pasteurized, which I bring to a boil and cool, gives a looser structure.

I don't have this, I take pasteurized from the hut, or 3.2, or fatty, you always get dense yogurt.

I do from 2.5%

That is, your milk in a multicooker heats up in a few minutes and then does not overheat?
Let me doubt this, because it is physically impossible.

what is your new yogurt maker

[Marfusha81]

Marfusha81, now many firms have released with temperature control. One of the first was Scarlett SC-YM141P01, in Eldorado for a long time already for 990 rubles. for sale. It does not have a container, but you can put whole tetrapacks or bottles. Almost simultaneously, Redmond was released, with cans. Recently, Kitford saw in an online trade, for 4 cans for 1400r .. Probably, other firms are also catching up.

My opinion is that it is difficult to come up with a better multicooker for yogurt. It does not depend on the ambient temperature, usually a master chef eats with a change in degrees. Glasses can be taken in ikea for 15 rubles. In a five-liter, 8 pieces stand freely. There are also disadvantages, of course, such as device-shopaholism. Well, I want a new toy, I've also been looking at yogurt makers for a long time. Intellectually I understand that there is nowhere to put, and I will still cook in a slow cooker, but NADA.

Most of these yogurt makers overheat. And I don't want to buy a multicooker for these purposes. I have Redmond 01, but he is often busy.
So I wanted to ask Ecocat what kind of yoghurt maker does not overheat.

what is your new yogurt maker

Yoghurt Maker Kitfort (KT-2007)
and the temperature can be set, and the time. Before that, there was Tefal for 12 jars, the one in which the jars are in weight. But it still overheated to 44-45 degrees, since it cannot be set on it for less than 6 hours. Here is such

🔗

When I saw the kitfort with interesting controls, I immediately bought it. I'm happy. It takes up little space and does what is needed. And inexpensive.

Both the old and the new yogurt makers do not depend on the environment, and I do not need a multicooker, I do not use them. Somehow I got used to slow cookers, they suit me better. So for the yoghurt I need the right yoghurt maker.

Most of these yogurt maker overheats

THESE yogurt makers do not overheat, you set the temperature for the first time, just measure how it heats up. And put less degrees, if necessary))

Both the old and the new yogurt makers do not depend on the environment, and I do not need a multicooker, I do not use them.

Everyone has their own conditions and adaptations)) it is good when they do not depend on the conditions and there is a place where to put)) I can have a draft just past the kitchen desktop. And the kitchen is tiny. Ideally - one pressure cooker-multicooker))) for everything. But this, apparently, does not happen ((usually in an old redmond yogurt, soup or porridge in a new pressure cooker, a pie or casserole in a small fiesta))))

Needshego comes out, taking into account the delivery by transport workers. Better to take Vivo at the pharmacy, in my case.

In my case, Bakzdrav compensates for the postage with its own ferments, at least that was the case when I last ordered. Now I will order again, the sourdough of cottage cheese is over. And so it is not cheap, of course, doing everything yourself is not cheap.



My yoghurt takes 6.5-7 hours to cook, almost always I control the readiness, before it is prepared only when over-fermenting. I cook both in a slow cooker and in a yogurt maker, before 6 o'clock yogurt is never ready, like the rest of the sour milk.

Peace be with you bakers!

Made on Oursson with 6% milk from auchan and soft caramel, it turned out delicious

here is a liter jar on the table, the yogurt has not even moved a little

[shade]

shade, Anatoly, did you add caramel directly to the milk? And what kind of leaven?
Aren't you afraid of the consequences? Still, it is not recommended to add something to milk when fermenting ... Although the surface of the yogurt is even, the caramel, in theory, should be sterile

Peace be with you bakers!

Orsika - I have been making yogurt and kefir on it for a long time, occasionally sour cream

🔗

I made liquid caramel for the first time, usually I do it with condensed milk and a couple of drops of vanilla or pistachio flavoring \ my daughter makes cakes for her many different bubbles \
caramel like this

Comrades, is it worth taking Bakzdrav or not? Leavens are very much needed. I used to take it from Irinka on the forum, now I don't know where. Prices are scary. Vivo, as I understand it, is Russian, not at all. Yogurt is expensive. However, like Live Balance, and Squaska. And with the current price of milk and sourdough, yoghurt production is not cheap at all.
Is Bakzdrav a manufacturer or a packer?

Lara, I bought, the starter cultures are excellent

I use Bakzdrav all the time, I like it very much

Did the participants search for suppliers / manufacturers of industrial starter cultures ready to send a package or two to an individual, liters per 100, so that they could actually consume within the shelf life? Prices there differ from starter cultures in colorful retail bags by several orders of magnitude.

Vivo, as I understand it, is Russian, not at all

And what has Vivo become bad? Normal leaven. Sold in many locations. Works great.

... but there is a nuance. As in a joke)

Did the participants search for suppliers / manufacturers of industrial starter cultures ready to send a package or two to an individual, liters per 100, so that they could actually consume within the shelf life? Prices there differ from starter cultures in colorful retail bags by several orders of magnitude.

Recently I ordered cheese starters, at the same time I bought a yogurt starter 🔗 for 250 liters of milk (price 750 rubles), I store it in the freezer, it turns out very tasty non-dripping yogurt.
In online stores of goods for cheese making (raw food, healthier, etc.) you can buy yoghurt starter in packs of 50, 100, 200 and more liters Chr. Hansen (Denmark); Danisco France SAS, (France); Kaprina (Russia), Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Experimental Biofactory" of the Russian Agricultural Academy, Uglich
They are happy to send to individuals whatever their heart desires))

[Lenusya]

Lenusya, thanks again, with your submission I also purchased Hansen, YF-L 811 (for this 🔗 the result should be thicker). Package of 50 units, according to the description for 250-500 liters, shelf life for another 1.5 years, allows storage at -18 ° C.

Hansen did not even get the approximate net weight of the starter culture in the package for calculating the dosage per liter, they answer that the drying process may differ from batch to batch, the activity of the starter culture is standardized, not the weight. And they are suspected of intending to make industrial sourdough) In stores and on forums, they recommend taking "at the tip of a knife")

I did not pour it into another container for weighing, contamination with microorganisms from the air is inevitable. Decided to store in the original bag with a minimum cut, in an airtight container in the freezer. I cut off a fragment of the wide welded edge of the bag, measured it and weighed it on a scale with a discreteness of 1 mg, counted it for the whole bag, and subtracted it from the gross. I got a net weight of the starter culture ~ 16 g, respectively, 30-60 mg is needed per liter.

80 mg per 1.8 L after 7 hours at 40 ° C gave an excellent dense yoghurt, after mixing in the tank, the consistency was evenly thick. I liked the taste. The cost of sourdough per liter is less than 2 rubles.

[vmspb]

vmspb,
For the sake of curiosity, I went to the order page of this Internet store.
There are data on the consumption of starter culture per 1 liter of milk, and for dense yogurt and for drinking.
Why are you doing your recalculations? For a more accurate gram?

[Taia]

Taiaand how do you practically measure out 1/32 teaspoon?

I put yogurt overnight, I need repeatability of the result.
How much substance is "at the tip of a knife" (or devils at the tip of a needle) I don't understand)

[vmspb]

vmspb, well, yes, it is difficult to measure 1/16 of a spoon.
Well, there is no data on the "tip of a knife" and the like.
Good price for sourdough, you can store it in the freezer for a long time.

and how do you practically measure out 1/32 teaspoon?

I use a set of measuring spoons 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64 tsp. , ordered on Ali.

[vmspb]

vmspb, I ordered measuring spoons in "Zdoroveevo". Up to 1/64 teaspoon, stainless steel.

Starter cultures are not standardized by volume, nor by weight. This means that recommendations in spoons are only a guideline, further by selection.
Perhaps for someone it is clearer with spoons. Scales are more convenient for me, especially for volumes that are not multiples of a liter.

[Lenusya]

Lenusya, Tell me, is it not scary for this leaven to be sent to the regions? Indeed, during transportation, the temperature is unstable, and on the site, except for the storage temperature, I did not find anything.

[Olyushk @]

Olyushk @, You did not ask in pharmacies? To the Pharmacy. ru were leavens. And they sell the evitalia. You can buy liquid, but it comes out very expensive. We have 130 rubles in Novosibirsk for three bottles of Narine-Forte, and 400-500 rubles in Moscow ...
And also, if you read the old forums, they fermented a lot - bifidum, linex, etc. hilak-forte just doesn't ferment. Absolutely.
Well, as an option - non-durable yoghurts, only without additives.

[Elena]

ElenaWith Narine-Forte, everything started with us ... the child developed blistering eczema on his palms, which they did not smear, nothing helps, then the next doctor decided to consider the problem from a different angle and look deep into the body, prescribed to drink course Narine-forte. And we live in a small town, of course, we did not find it even to order, we found it in the regional center in the only pharmacy, again to order. We spent a month on drink and the pens became clean! And I began to seriously think about buying a yoghurt maker and started looking for the most useful sourdough ... I can't even dream of Narin Fort for 130 rubles ...

[Olyushk @]

Olyushk @, Olya, online starter cultures are sending their starter cultures. Didn't you look for such? I can give links if necessary.

[Olga]

Olga, it's good that narine helped)) we also saved them from atopic dermatitis. But production in Novosibirsk is therefore cheaper. Alternatively, take acidophilus as a ferment. In theory, the same strains as Narine. Well, or similar. You can also take a bottle of the original narine-forte (LactoMir) and use it as a leaven. It will be a little cheaper than the sourdough itself. But he has a shelf life of only two months for a closed bottle, and probably won't be pumped out with a sterile syringe, it's very thick. And open - 2 weeks. And you won't freeze it. And the big question is in the safety of bacteria, I take fresh starters, we take them from the store as quickly as possible and without heating, I store them in the refrigerator. And still, by the end of the shelf life (2 months), the milk is fermented for 12 hours (fresh - 8 hours).
Another option to reduce the cost of liquid starter cultures is re-fermentation. It can be done up to 5 times if sterility is maintained. Then three things are enough for three months.

🔗

[Elena]

Elena, thanks, Lenochka, we were just in the lactometer and took our bottles of 450 grams. 3 pieces, with delivery to Vladimir, they have an open period of only 13 days, they really don't get too hungry. And you are very lucky that you have a production facility!



$ vetLana, Sveta, of course, you need references. Only now, again, I ask myself the same question, will they lose their properties during delivery?

🔗
🔗
🔗
Ask them a question about the properties at the time of delivery.

[Olga]

Olga, well, yes, open them should be drunk quickly ...
Look at these more. This is also a Vector, this is one research institute, just a lot of firms have been opened. Lactomir makes liquid starters, while BiAlgam makes dry ones. Once I took it, good yogurt comes out. And you can also re-ferment. The only thing you need to write to them about the temperature is how they send.
Although, in fact, the temperature drop is not so terrible for powders.

🔗
🔗

[Lenusya]

I also bought YF-L 812 yoghurt starter from Chr. Hansen (Denmark) for 250 liters of milk (price 750 rubles), I store it in the freezer, it turns out very tasty non-dripping yogurt.

Lenusya,
Thank you so much for the tip! They bought it, however, in another store, even a little cheaper, but now they don't sell it there.
Great thick yoghurt, delicious! Oddly enough, I, for example, now like to eat it without adding jam at all ...
We have no measuring spoons, the wife ferments, takes the ferment "on the tip of a teaspoon."
One more point. We did it several times in a liter jar, wrapping it with a towel (we just have a yogurt maker for 4 jars, sometimes not enough). Surprisingly, the yoghurt came out even better than the cups in the yoghurt maker. I say without straining, you can cut with a knife and have to chew!
Taking into account the cost price (4 rubles / liter), you can not save much and not try to use already prepared yogurt for sourdough. Although we tried to ferment with yogurt itself - the result is excellent! !
Thanks again!