Sourdough bread.

It will definitely not be rye, it will look like Soviet bread at 16 kopecks, so grayish, sort of like with bran. And you add a spoonful of bran, then you won't feel rye at all.

klazy
It will not be rye, but wheat-rye.
Everything will work out for you, don't worry.
If not today, then tomorrow.
"Moscow was not built in a day..."
Soon you will give advice to the right and to the left. There would be a desire, but you have it.
Good luck!

And over time, you can transfer part of the rye sourdough to wheat, for example, whole grain, and you will have 100% wheat bread with wheat sourdough.
But first, let the rye gain strength for a month or two, and then you look and build up a bunch of different leavens.

Thanks for the kind words:))

Dear Sveta! How did you like the addition of bran to the sourdough? I always pass the bran through the sourdough (both wheat and rye) and I am happy with the result. The bread is tender. Don't you bake completely rye bread? It turns out like Borodinsky in the Soviet version, the most fragrant! And if you add pine nuts and some kind of drying such as cranberries or blueberries, it generally goes as a separate dish, better than cakes!

Dear Sveta! How did you like the addition of bran to the sourdough? I always pass the bran through the sourdough (both wheat and rye) and I am happy with the result. The bread is tender. Don't you bake completely rye bread? It turns out like Borodinsky in the Soviet version, the most fragrant! And if you add pine nuts and some kind of drying such as cranberries or blueberries, it generally goes as a separate dish, better than cakes!

It's fun to experiment with 100% rye flour.
Questions:
What kind of rye do you use: wallpaper, peeled, seeded?
How do you bake it: in the oven (in the hearth, in the form) or in a bread machine?
Please share the details.

but I don't even like the behavior of my leaven: (((
she stood for 4 days at the hall, became like hungry
in the first feeding, it grew up perfectly, it became bubbly, I was delighted, well, I think, what will happen on the third feeding, if it’s so bad in the first one ...
and on the second top dressing there was almost no pearl, on the third - too ...
it looks like normal, when you interfere with the bubbles appear, it smells like apple cider vinegar, but don't sweat it ... I wonder if she will raise something tomorrow?

I don’t know what to say, because I didn’t have the experience to feed the starter culture 3 times after the refrigerator. I do not spoil her: I fed her once, stood for an hour on the table and back into the refrigerator.

well ... I like as Admin wrote I act - three dressings, then - in the dough ...
probably the next time I will not pamper either ... otherwise it has become SO MUCH with this feeding ... now I don't know what to do

Dear Sveta! How did you like the addition of bran to the sourdough? I always pass the bran through the sourdough (both wheat and rye) and I am happy with the result. The bread is tender. Do you not bake completely rye bread? It turns out like Borodinsky in the Soviet version, the most fragrant! And if you add pine nuts and some kind of drying such as cranberries or blueberries to it, it generally goes as a separate dish, better than cakes!

I bake completely rye bread, and even necessarily. But I make any bread on dough. The only thing that I can have wheat in rye bread is leaven, and that is not always the case. It depends on what kind of hypostasis I have today. I don't particularly bother with this. There is rye sourdough - I put it in wheat bread, it won't make it worse, there is wheat or cereal - I add it to rye, and if both coincide, then this is generally a holiday!
I love rye bread exclusively with caraway seeds, coriander, flax or seeds. Perhaps the sweet additions are good too, but that's a matter of taste. Usually rye bread is the bread for lunch. And for breakfast or dessert, it is still wheat or derived from sourdough (such as pancakes, sourdough pancakes, try it, very cool).
Bran in sourdough is a separate topic, indeed, if the bran is passed through the sourdough, they do not roughen wheat bread so much, its taste is much softer and more tender. I can say the same about rye flour, if it is passed through sourdough or sourdough dough, then the taste of rye bread is completely different.

with ... sy ... sy ... curd cakes with sourdough?
and where to put it there?

And cheesecakes and cottage cheese casserole ... I just put sourdough instead of flour and one or two eggs. And a little more sugar, because the leaven is still sour.

Finally, I was able to upload pictures of my caraway-rye-wheat bread, although it was almost finished; wheat-wholegrain is cooling now, his photo will also be submitted soon

beautiful !!!
but I somehow do not add up with cuts :)

Well, today it didn't work out for me with cuts either. The bread was created with a "lonely candle flame", yesterday at 20.00 they turned off, and today at 14.00 they turned on the light, so the bread was made almost in pitch darkness (we have a kitchen with a tiny window opening into a tiny shed, which is barred with wooden slats, that is, It turns out with the "third light", so you can cook only with electric lighting. Thank God, the oven is gas.
The bread turned out to be pretty good, considering that the dough was clearly overstayed and from the first time I could not roll a good bun, I rolled it over and it broke, I had to roll it up again, and this is a repeated proofing, in short, it was not overstayed today, which is why it turned out such flaws:

the bread is cracked along its entire length;

the crust turned out to be harsh;

the bread is slightly sour, which I didn't want at all today. But more than edible, although I expected more ...

LightOdessa,
the bread is wonderful !!!

klazy,
with cuts, everything will work out if you follow these rules:
1. When kneading the dough, there should be a bun like wheat.
2. The dough should not stand still.
3. The dough during proofing should not be covered with a crust, that is, it must be defrosted either in a damp place or completely in cellophane together with the mold, since the aerated crust on the dough will not make a beautiful cut. And immediately before cutting, sprinkle the dough with flour: the blade will not cling to the dough. Someone else suggested pre-wetting the blade in rast. oil.

bread was made almost in pitch darkness

Nichёse extreme bakers in the city!
I haven't heard that they used to bake bread by candlelight :))
inspire

Alas, yes. My kitchen is my trouble. Small - 6.5 m, three doors, there is a dressing room and an AGV in the kitchen, in addition, there is an automatic washing machine, so there is practically no workplace. Moreover, the "beloved" mother-in-law always needs to cook at the very moment when I cook ... For me, the absence of light is God's grace, at least no one interferes, since it is very dark. And only I cook by candlelight.

yes, I see, you will not be optimistic :)))

Girls, I am to you for help. Or poke your nose where to look, or tell me. I put on the third sourdough bread. The first two baked according to the Darnitsky recipe from fugaska, but instead of yeast, I added about 9 tbsp. spoons of leaven from Luke. Baked in Panasonic 255 on the French program - this is a 6-hour program. Despite the fact that the entire top crust is cracked, the bread turned out to be delicious. The second time I kneaded the dough on the dumplings program, then proofed for about 4-4.5 hours, then baked goods for 1 hour 15 minutes. And left it on heating for 30 minutes. I noticed that the bun, as usual, did not work with dry yeast, the dough was thinner, the bread did not rise as much as the first time, but still tasty. And now I bake rustic bread from the instructions for Moulinex 5002:
Wheat flour 415g
Rye flour 95g
Water 305ml
Salt 1.5 tsp
Sugar 0.5 tbsp. l.
Instead of 1.5 tsp. dry yeast about 9 tbsp. l. rye sourdough
I put French bread on the program for 6 hours.
After kneading, the bun failed again while the dough is in the bread maker. I don’t know what will happen.
I have several questions:
1. Is there a norm for how much starter culture should be put for 400-500g. flour?
2. What should be a kolobok?
3. Probably need to reduce the liquid in the recipe? How much?
4. Made sourdough only from rye flour and water. Can I add it to pure wheat bread? Will the sourness of rye bread appear in it?
Thanks in advance to those who will answer. I really want to achieve good results and gradually get rid of yeast completely.

1. Starter cultures should be about 1/4 or 1/5 of the total dough. I simply replace 100 g of flour and 100 g of water with 200 g of sourdough (very rough, it is worth doing my own calculations), or I take a completely original recipe and just add a cup of sourdough (on average, 200-250 g of sourdough for 500 g of flour).
2. Rye dough does not quite take the shape of a bun, it is quite sticky and more moist than wheat, it spreads a little over the bucket. If you make baking in the oven, and not in C / P, then it is better to form the rye dough with hands moistened with water or vegetable oil.
3. The liquid in the recipe should be reduced exactly by the amount of liquid in the leaven.
4. Sourness will not appear if the leaven is not overexposed, but enters the dough at the upper fermentation peak, before falling off. Also, do not overexpose the dough, it should not become loose. In addition, you can transfer part of the leaven to wheat (take 1 tbsp. L. Sourdough and add 100 g of wheat flour and 100 g of water), leave for 3-6 hours (depending on the strength of the leaven), bring to the peak of fermentation (increase 2-4 times) and add to the wheat dough.
Good luck!

Take a look at this topic: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...opic=1064.0 , here is detailed information on the formation of a rye bun.

Sveta Odessa, thank you very much for the quick and complete answer. I understood the principle, I will try.

klazy, I liked using the starter starter better. It turns out that the kneading of the dough coincides with the top dressing, that is, the kneading of the dough is top dressing. The leaven has more incentive to work.

Viola, I baked wheat for lactic acid sourdough (kefir + rye flour). The jubilation about first luck is here: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=3704.285
I took 4 tbsp of sourdough. l. 250 gr. flour. I put the cumin with fright from the past experience, I thought if it turned out sour, then the cumin would soften it.
Surprisingly, not only were there no signs of sourness in the bread, but it seemed to me a little sweet with a pleasant caraway aroma.
He probably seemed sweet to me after the previous super sour (I almost threw away the leaven, pulled myself together in time).
It is better to leave the yeast not gradually, but immediately, since there is a high risk that the dough will oxyderate, or shift the yeast. Better right away! I liked the proofing overnight.

[Dough:]

For those interested, the recipe for my adapted caraway-rye sourdough bread:
Dough:
1 cup (240 ml) water
1 cup starter culture
2 cups rye flour
1 tbsp. l. barley malt (I grew it myself)
Mix all the ingredients thoroughly and put in a cool place 16-18 C overnight (or for a day, as it is convenient) for about 12 hours.
Dough:
2/3 cup apple juice (I used water, but milk whey is even better)
2 cups of wheat flour of any kind, I took 1 tsp of 1 grade and 1 tsp of 2 grades
2 tbsp. l. wheat bran
2 tbsp. l. cumin
1-2 tsp gluten (I do not add, but I have a very strong leaven, for fidelity it is better to add the first time)
1 tbsp. l. sugar (add occasionally)
2 tsp salt
Then everything is very simple: knead the dough with half of the wheat flour without salt and leave to absorb moisture for 20-25 minutes, covered with foil, then add salt and the remaining flour. The dough turns out to be somewhat sticky and moist. Knead it well and put in a bowl slightly greased with vegetable oil and leave for proofing for 2-3 hours, or until doubled, covered with foil (I put the dough in a large bag and tie it with a rubber band on top for money).
Then do everything according to Ain's recipe: "Put the dough on a floured table, crush it slightly, wrap the edges inward, turn it over, cover with a plastic wrap or a bowl in which it was stewed and leave for 15 minutes.
Shape the dough into a round or oval loaf (shape it like a round one, and then roll it slightly into an oval) and place it in a basket or in a sieve covered with a towel, seam up and sprinkle well with flour or on a baking sheet sprinkled with flour seam down.
Cover with foil and leave for 1-2 hours, until doubled.
Preheat oven to 260 ° C / 500 ° F 30 minutes before baking.
Remove the foil from the basket, sprinkle the loaf with semolina or cornmeal. Sprinkle semolina on a spatula, turn the loaf over on it. Make cuts on the bread with a sharp knife - one in the middle and three cuts on each side diagonally, not reaching 3 cm to the edge of the bread.
Sprinkle the oven with water or toss a few pieces of ice into the oven (preferably in a frying pan), place the loaf on a stone, or bake on a baking sheet.
Reduce temperature to 240 ° C / 475 ° F. Bake 35 minutes until dark, sprinkling over the oven for the first 5 minutes, then leave unopened for 20 minutes. If the loaf is heavily browned, reduce the temperature to 230 ° C / 450 ° F for the last 10 minutes.
Cool on a wire rack for at least 30 minutes. Rye bread tastes better the next day. "

And yesterday I decided to conduct another experiment. I had quite a lot of sourdough ripened. I didn't want anything like pancakes, pies, etc., and I decided to make bread with more leaven than usual. It turned out - 2 glasses of sourdough (I went for a dough) and 2.5 glasses of flour. I will try to post the photo and the recipe tomorrow, the bread, surprisingly, turned out to be surprisingly tasty and not at all sour.

Sveta, is this a recipe for a large loaf? A kilogram and a half?

[Sveta]

Sveta, good recipe!
I baked my first rye with sourdough the other day, it turned out super!
They knew how in a day!
My fran. sourdough, also developed into a non-versatile
I am so happy that they taught me how to grow it and use it in the process! The bread comes out just excellent, but a little more (to calm the soul!) Yeast bed (1-2g). I will give them up soon!
And here's my today's bread!

The photo does not convey all the beauty and smell !!!!

Sveta, is this a recipe for a large loaf? A kilogram and a half?

I got a loaf weighing 1375 g. This is bread "Reply # 111: 15 March 2009, 15:14:08" from this topic.

Here is a photo of my "multi-starter" experiment:




If the recipe is interesting, then here it is:

Sourdough - 2 cups (instead of dough, at its very peak)
3/4 cup water
Flaxseed - 3 sec l.
Sugar - 1 tbsp. l. (for safety reasons, I was afraid that the bread would be sour)
Flour - 2.5 cups
Gluten - 1 tsp (for every fireman)
Salt 1.5 tsp (20-25 minutes after kneading)

Knead a not cool dough, distance to increase by 2-2.5 times, knead, shape bread (I made 3 bars, put them together in a wide form, they "baked" so coolly like buns), there are already leftovers in the photo , one flew away instantly.
Distance again before installing in the oven, baking with steam, the temperature was not very high, I gradually added, I think, 210-220 degrees at first, then 230-240 ??? I have great difficulty with the temperature - there is no thermometer in the oven!

Sveta, and gluten is -?

Sveta, and gluten is -?

It seems like panifarin, I don't know, in our warehouse it is called "Eco-gluten + ascorbic acid", Vika said that she looked at the composition, there are no chemical additives, that it is a completely natural product, so sometimes (very rarely) I add it to rye or whole grain breads.
By the way, in the last recipe I forgot to say, the flour was: 1 cup of whole grain and 1.5 cups of flour of 1 (or 2) grade, they are in the same bags, and with my lighting in the kitchen it is very difficult to notice the difference. Sprinkling - whole grain.

yeah, gluten is panifarin :)

I really enjoyed baking bread with a lot of sourdough, so today I put on another "multi-leaven" bread with flax seeds (very tasty!)
The recipe has changed slightly in relation to the previous one, for me it will be two round loaves weighing about 500-550 g each, - I will bake - I will weigh.
Now the loaves are proofed before baking, if it comes out successfully and tasty - in the evening I will post pictures, but for now the recipe:

500 g sourdough
1 tsp water (h - 240 ml)
3 tbsp. l. flax seed
2 tbsp. l. sugar (a little bit of sourdough)
4 cups of flour (500 g) (1 tsp of whole grain, 1 tsp of 2 or 1 grade and 2 tsp of the premium grade), - recently I want a wheat bread, but it still turns out to be gray because of the seeds and low-grade flour
2 tsp gluten free
2 tsp salt (20 minutes after mixing)

I kneaded the dough, spaced it to double it, sprinkled it with whole grain flour for molding, the dough is not tight and slightly sticky, formed two round loaves on a baking sheet sprinkled with flour (better than corn, but, unfortunately, I ran out, and run to the store, in the rain , urgently - I really don't want to, so whole grain), cut it and put it in a form in a large bag for proofing before baking, I think half an hour is enough, we'll see
While I say goodbye until the evening, if everything goes well, then see the result at the end of the day.

but I like to sprinkle a baking sheet with bran instead of flour.

I also sometimes add panifarin to rye with a lot of additional (corn, oat) and grains.
And now I have a problem - I need to save the grain sourdough (formerly French) for two weeks. I brought it to a very thick state, sprinkled it lightly with salt on top, put it in the refrigerator on the top shelf.
Interestingly, will survive?

can part freeze ... from sin?)

Oh, scary! I have been raising my little animal since November, I started as a traditional French thick one - and what has never been in it - grapes, raisins, dried apricots, figs, honey, hops, now grains and cereals "Artek". It was both liquid and medium, now it is very thick.

Vika dried her sourdough, and then restored it again, says that it recovers well, within 2-3 days. It dried very simply - I spread it on a sheet of paper (I think, parchment) and put it near the battery, when the leaven dries up, she knead it in powder and in a dry jar. But it's better to ask her if it will be more accurate.
And I have already tried my next bread, I must say that "very, very" !!!
The crust is a little hard, but thin and very crispy. The pulp today turned out to be a little dense, fine-mesh - I could not distance the bread to the desired condition, I had to run away, so he went to the oven a little earlier than needed. But the taste did not suffer from this. It is very good with mustard, and with butter, and with cream, and with jam, too.
It turned out a little crooked, but real French is also shapeless, so I console myself that the bread cannot always turn out beautiful and even, the main thing is that it is tasty
Here are the pictures:

Great bread! I love crispy, for example.
Is it sourdough wheat? Or whole grain?
I am looking for a recipe - my husband ignores rye bread in life ... half an hour ago I fed the rye sourdough with whole grain flour and whey (it actually turned out thickly) ... put it in a measuring cup on the hands), I sit and am afraid that I will have to wash all the chairs from the leaven in the kitchen as soon as I leave the gygy

This is wheat-whole grain, wheat flour of different varieties + flax seed. I really like the flaxseed taste in wheat bread, although it also looks good in rye bread.

oh, I did this just yesterday in HP (but by leaps and bounds) - all from whole grain flour + coarsely ground flaxseed + bran - we already knew how, one crust remained :))

I want to thank you for the recipe!

Amazingly, usually hot, my bread smells like sourdough, and today my husband noticed that there is no smell. I tested the very first recipe from this topic.
Here is my report. I tried to dry the leaven and put a lot of bran in it, then I got tired of it and I filled it with water. I look, and she grows ... so I put her into a bread maker and let's experiment.

I was in a hurry to take pictures, since only half of them were left



It turned out not very high, but as for such an amount of flour - normal. Dark, since the bran is rye, it even seemed to me that with some wrong color, but then I attributed it to poor lighting in the kitchen.
We cut it almost hot


Thanks for the good advice

Nice looking! With the success of you! In the context - very appetizing.

Svetlana, and you baked in a bread maker before. How many minutes ??? And then the crust came out harsh

I, unfortunately, used the bread maker mainly for kneading, since it did not fry the crust at all. And now I do everything manually. So I can't help you in any way here. My only advice is that after baking, sprinkle a crust of hot bread with water from a spray bottle and cover with a towel. Leave it on for a couple of hours. The stitch will be much softer.

Thank you! I will try

[So I got it]

Tonight I baked bread according to Luda's "Traditional English" recipe, I kept the basis of the recipe almost completely, only instead of yeast I took sourdough.
So I got it
Dough:
100 g sourdough
85 g wholemeal flour + 15 g wheat bran
80 g water
(Original Recipe
for two hearth breads, a pound each or for a dozen rolls.
Opara
150g whole wheat flour
5 g of pressed yeast (or 3 g dry)
130g water 20C)
Stir, cover and leave to ferment for 12-18 hours. (I put it on AGV, and it wandered for 2.5-3 hours, no more, although I think that if I did it, as in the original recipe, the taste would be more interesting)
Dough
450g wheat flour of any grade
5g salt
15g butter or vegetable oil (I took herbal, unrefined)
270g of water (355g of water took my dough)(I got 270 d)
all dough
Knead a soft, silky dough, cover and ferment for 1 hour. Divide into two large pieces for bread or into a dozen small pieces for bread. Smear the products, let them prove and bake at 220C / 430F until tender. The buns will take about 10-15 minutes to bake, and the bread will take longer, at least 30 minutes. The crust of the products will be thin, and the bread itself will be exceptionally crumbly and V K U S N Y Y.
Note. While kneading the dough, instead of 450g flour and 270g water, I took 320g flour, 200g ripe sourdough (130g flour + 70g water) and 285g water. The proofing took me 45 minutes. Since I identified the leaven in the dough, I did not add it anymore. The bread turned out to be very tasty, somewhat denser than Lyuda's, I do not yet have a cap that is used to cover bread during baking, I just baked with steam (a frying pan with water at the bottom of the oven), and also, I would add a little salt, say, instead of 5 g - 7.5 g
In addition, I doubled this entire portion and I got 4 bread, each weighing about 500 g.
Here are my results:

oh, and what pictures are not visible?
+, for those in the tank, what does "I put on AGV" mean?

Already fixed. AGV (Automatic Gas Water Heater), something like a gas boiler connected to batteries
I would like to add about the test - it's scary, creepy, colossally sticky !!! But I, nevertheless, coped with it, although I added flour to the bedding ... that's why it turned out denser.
I'm messing with my hands, the car was not repaired, I will take the money, although what kind of money is it now?

The other day I baked pure rye bread with rye sourdough. Well, very tasty !!!

Recipe:

Opara
1 cup starter culture
1 cup of water
2 cups flour (rye)
2 tbsp. l. malt
Tighten with foil, put in a warm place.
The dough should double somewhere and begin to fall off. It took me 3 hours in a warm place (on the AGV).

Dough
All dough
0.5 cups of water
2 tsp salt
2 tbsp. l. Sahara
2 tbsp. l. ground coriander (or caraway seeds)
1.5 - 2.0 cups rye flour

Knead the dough until the dry flour disappears. Bread can be formed immediately and placed in molds. I shape it with sunflower oil. I don't grease the molds, I just coat the dough with oil on top. Tighten it captive. The proofing took me 1.5 - 2 hours.In a well-heated oven with steam for 10-15 minutes, then reduce the heat, remove the steam - another 20 minutes. Cool on a wire rack under a towel.
It will be tastier than Borodinsky from "Odessa Karavai"! Even without molasses ...

Light, as always -!