Italian sourdough (Levito madre) - cultivation and care

In general, miracles in the sieve ...

yeah, miracles ... what is it !!! ??

[Nata (Scarecrow)]

and here Nata (Scarecrow) writes that

J. Hamelman's liquid wheat sourdough (Scarecrow)

Yes, it practically does not grow until 4-5 days. Almost all sourdoughs behaved this way (I grew a lot of them, in fact, one Calvel sourdough 10 times, no less))). Feed persistently, withstand the temperature. The first explosion with an unpleasant smell, then only the accumulation of bubbles in the thickness with almost no upward movement. Then the moment comes when, after the next feeding, bang! The increase is 2 times, and then incrementally. This is the norm.

although, probably, it will no longer be according to the Italians, but it may be worth bringing the experiment to the end. Take your time to throw it away?

But to start the third experiment according to all Italo rules, according to the article here
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take fruits that you have at home with white bloom and skins, without rinsing, make mashed potatoes for 100 g, beating them well in a blender. We add a little water to the exact 100 g of the mass, so that we are sure that it will not kill the microflora. In order not to be disinfected. Luda made sourdoughs on distilled water, Nata on tap water, but with tap water you need to be sure that there are no harmful additives in the water in your region, and in bottled water that it was not driven through an antibiological filter, otherwise it will also kill everything.

And Francesco Favorito suggests using carbonated mineral water, it contains CO2 - carbonic acid anhydride, which facilitates the activation of acidity.
We leave it for a day in a room at 20-27, the warmer, the better, we will precisely start the fermentation process. The next day we filter, add water to 100 g and 100 g flour (they ask for a strong one). And we leave this first soft dough for a day.
And now they look at this dough, the primary one is soft - this is preparation for the starter.
"After this time, if everything went well, we will see that the composition will increase in volume, it will have bubbles formed as a result of foaming, and it will have a strong acidic smell.
That is, girls, start the process with a soft dough in the warmth.
Girls, notice Bonchi
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the primary dough with raisins is also kneaded very soft !!!, it is compacted only after souring.
That is, there is also preparation for the starter.
Only after the initial acidification, the Italians propose to transfer it into a solid form, which you will then feed.
Now we send our dough to the favorite conditions of the Italos at a temperature of 18-24, they do not like high and we begin to withdraw the leaven, this is essential for those microbes that Italos love. The ideal is called 22.
In 100g of our fermented soft dough mix, add as much high-protein flour as you want to get a dough that is firm and firm. without adding water, make an incision and put it in a narrow bowl, and CLEARLY we do not feed anything for at least 48 hours - Favorito allows a slight variation in hours, but if it does not ferment, then there are no necessary microbes. That is, let's add another day, but no more. This is now a starter. And even if it has fermented, we can keep it at least for 48 hours. This is a starter, it should stand properly. The starter and preparation for the starter can and should be done on mineral water. But feeding on ordinary water, but alive.
This is where the refreshing feeding begins. After a good wandering, at least 48 hours, at most the third day - a starter. Depends on temperature. At 18 - the ash tree stump can slow down a lot. It is 20-24 for the starter.
After removing the starter, you can keep it colder - feed 18-24.
At 22 degrees - it is considered the most, it is better 18-22 than 24-26, then the refreshment begins once every 24 hours for 2 weeks, in short, see the article for yourself.
Bonchi always feeds once every 48 hours, but then after a month they will be bathed. Others feed once every 24 hours and bathe only in case of failure.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, Lena, the fact is that what I have done cannot be cut after a day - this is a soft putty that stretches the chewing gum behind a spoon / fork. It is smeared. Therefore, yesterday was thrown out mercilessly. This is not the condition. Damn, I forgot how my thick Frenchwoman looked mature. But I think she was not like that.

And Francesco Favorito suggests using carbonated mineral water, it contains CO2 - carbonic acid anhydride, which facilitates the activation of acidity.

I latently straight wanted to add mineral water
I sent mine to rest ... in the refrigerator, I started to feed her. And she wants to live, resists.

That's what I thought. I bake bread with industrial yeast. My entire space is permeated with fungal spores. How to remove the leaven, where is the guarantee that they will not occupy it? And those who breed the leaven, do they have a guarantee that they bred wild and not cultivated?

[Anna]

Anna, they ask for good gluten just for reasons that it does not break down during fermentation, and allows for a delayed feeding. Everything is scheduled by the hour and there should be no failures. The dough should be beautiful at all stages. Of course, there shouldn't be any putty. If broken, in FIG. Throw girls away. It will clearly not be Italian.
Sveta, well, do not imagine yeast as such monsters. Wipe the table, ventilate the kitchen - and it's okay. The main thing is, do not keep a pack of yeast open during operation)))))
And from the behavior of the leaven it becomes clear what it is. Wild behaves decently, there is also wild yeast, and they are not as powerful as cultivated ones. Therefore, they sit for a day without a feeding trough and not gu-gu. And your cultured barzels: the dough was raised in record time and asked to eat immeasurably.
They are good, but they drown out bacteria with their activity, that is, the dough is fermented according to the schedule of the modern GOST, and not the Italian slow cold fermentation.
If you pay attention, all Italian baked goods are a cool fermentation process. Long lasting somewhere around 18-20, like keeping the leaven. And cultural yeast is already a hot favorite summer. They will lift the loaf like in a bread machine, they will not let the dough sit quietly.





If you don't go into the Levite Madre, where everything is painted, where is the emphasis on a certain microflora and intact gluten

and I want to load your head,
THAT putty from stest is just like getting the leaven by itself, not madre, but simply spontaneously, no fear. The main thing is to have life there. And this should be checked simply by leaving it for a longer time without feeding and waiting for the acid in it. And then start freshening until you get a non-grease.
Theoretically, if there is life there, then in 10-14 days it must necessarily turn sour, if not renewed. But it’s so bitter, not in the best way. And then with refreshments, too, it can be slowly brought into a tolerant form. But what will be displayed there in such a way, what microflora, is another question. This is already something very at random))))
From scientific interest, you can experiment, observe the process It would be a complete improvisation, since the chefs do not do that, probably the masterpiece will not work, but ... suddenly a miracle happens



What else. I was totally right Ritusik (Mamusi), when I held the starter - the first dense dough - almost three days before visible activity. The Italians also react to this activity, but in a different way: they throw the starter into the water and wait for a rise for 48, but a maximum of 72 hours (if the conditions are very cold, below 20 degrees), in fact, this is the good porosity of the starter. That is, our starter is about to become so bubbly that it is ready to surface like a submarine. After surfacing, this is a ready-made starter, which is transferred to Levito by feeding.
then the Italos stupidly feed on schedule, regardless of any activity.

[Lena]

Lena, Well, I brought out thick on our local flour, only French (there start with whole grain rye flour, not fruit). And she wasn't like that. I just think that maybe something got wrong there, that's why she became like that. I'll try again later.

[Anya]

Anya, with the correct derivation, of course, it should not be like that)))) This is a failure. If you do the right thing, then you need to redo. Because when you deviate from the recommended feeding, the microflora of the starter culture changes and it will not give out the intended qualities.
That is, the Italians want a starter culture with high lifting and enzymatic qualities in a cool dough, so they do not recommend moving at any stage to the warmth at all. Italians want those microbes that eat peacefully once every 24 hours. In the warmth, there will also be leaven, but different. With frequent feeding, there will also be sourdough - but again with other types of microbes.
therefore, it is possible to make leaven out of putty, but not Calvell's and not the Levite. Other microbes will settle there, although also ICD. There will be a different taste.

All three!
I didn't touch mine yesterday, now I looked, it has almost doubled, almost 48 hours have passed, I'll feed it again at lunchtime!

[Ksyusha]

Bonchi's starter culture with feeding every 48 hours will differ from Favorito with feeding once a day, well, it's like the author's recipes. Slightly different temperature, slightly different food - a different shade.
But all Italians have almost the same requirements: to live in cool conditions, it is good and tasty to make baked goods even in cool conditions. For this, both Bonchi and Favorito do not keep her warm and do not allow the destruction of gluten. They have different shades of taste for starters, but the characteristics for the dough are the same, as for any Levito



Ksyusha, if you fit within 48 hours between feedings, then it's normal. A gap of 24-48 hours for Levito is quite acceptable, these are the author's variations. The main thing is that the high-speed one is not like a meteor, but it also does not go stupid for more than 48 hours. Moreover, different temperatures during hatching are allowed. If at 25 she will sit completely motionless for 48 hours, then it will also not be very good. And if 18-22, then normal.

Can I try to order dry Levito on ebee?
Found some kind of liofil plus, it contains flour and Levito
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Here is a common 🔗 on request lievito madre.



LYOFIL PLUS is an active maternal yeast formed as a result of biological fermentation of certain bacterial strains obtained from wheat flour. The use of Liofil Plus gives a greater aroma, and its naturalness increases the digestibility of the finished product. For optimal results, it is recommended to stick to the recipes provided by the company. Store in a cool dry place away from direct sunlight. - 1 kg per package

there is a cheaper option.

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rf / p5 / t132 / l698 / index.html
and probably there are still in other places with us

For love of art, it would be interesting to look at the cultured Levite and compare it with his wild one. If we consider that a real Levito, according to all the rules, is withdrawn and strengthened for at least a month, this would greatly reduce efforts
BUT there is one catch with purchased microbes. They are usually disposable and do not support long-term breeding and feeding. Therefore, the question with this purchased Levite is open. Perhaps there too - a couple of times the leaven.



What else are girls and boys. If you take flour and look at the composition, then in manitoba not only protein is different. There are also various fats and carbohydrates. Moreover, the Italians do not pop manitoba in its pure form. They stick a slightly different type or mixture of manitoba with a richer flour (see Bonchi. He uses two types of flour).
That is, what I'm talking about. Our in. sec., even if we find it with a good protein, it is also empty. Therefore, at least when removing the starter, put a couple of spoons of whole grain wheat there. Just a little. In order not to weaken the gluten, but to add food and microbes. It will not get worse, we will not depart from the recipe. A couple of spoons does not change the type of wheat flour and does not particularly weaken the gluten.And there are more microbes and nutrition than, for example, on an empty makfa.

On Saturday I put a new sourdough on grapes and new flour. After 48 hours, she grew up a little, I fed her. During these 48 hours I watched Nata-Chuchelka bring out Hamelman's leaven. And there she says that it doesn't work with water from the filter! And I have just filtered water, a filter with silver! Yesterday I had to feed, and I just took sediment tap water. The case went better, it doubled in a day, I'll look until the evening, maybe I'll feed it. But with the temperature I have a swing. We have stove heating, and the temperature ranges from 21 to 28-30 degrees.

[Lena]

Lena, well, in theory, there should be an ordinary working leaven, which has been dried. Although it is written: "but it should be taken into account that every time the microflora changes a little. You cannot ferment endlessly." But nevertheless, "Over-leavening of the bread on the remaining leaven is allowed."

[Anya]

28-30 is a complete mess. The sourdough will work, but the characteristics and taste can be very different from Levito. Closer to our domestic characteristics. Ours are warm.



Anya... Industrial starter cultures are specially made on such strains so that they can be stored in the cold and withstand long-term storage, but only for a limited number of feeding times. Usually.
And not that you just bought it and no longer went to the store.
Read between the lines. Quality guarantee for a couple of re-fermentation times, and then ... well, where will it take. To change, it is changing. But at home, half a year or a year would definitely be enough. Microbes would resist.
And this one in one fell swoop can turn into a banal spontaneous, after a couple of refreshments

Yes, I know it's a mess. I don't even know where to find the colder place. If only put in a closet in the hall, the coldest room.

[Anya]

Anya... The question is how it was done. If the house is on its knees, then it's like ours. Let's revive and will work for a long time. And if in an industrial way - then it's ridiculous to hope for this.
The bacterium sourdough is an example. Or the sourdoughs at the All-Union Bread Research Institute, which are also very limited renewable. You have to buy as the game ends.

[Lena]

Lena, quite possible. Therefore, I will try to withdraw it myself again later.

not .. the price is low. It is interesting to try a real Levito, but I suppose it will not save from its own derivation for economic reasons for constant use.
But then, by the way, the question is what is better to fork out for. On ebee bourgeois, somehow looks more attractive. Kind of like the original source. And our fig knows. Maybe they also did it on the makfa))))))))))))

(see Bonchi. He uses two types of flour).

There like Farina Manitoba and Farina 0 are used

so this .. different grind - different animals in it. Different composition of fats and proteins. I directly compare to scrap. Ash tree stump, for sourdough you need a rich and tasty flour, and at the same time very strong. And we already have something. Finding at least 11 squirrels is a joy. Therefore, we take what to eat and season it with a little whole grain. It turns out both strong and tasty in our)))) conditions. The main thing with the central locking system is not to overdo it. CZ is weak, you can't have much. Weaken. Just a little.
Percent 1 (for a very common with 10 protein) -3 (which is stronger) of the weight, I suppose. At least a starter. Lahn, when feeding, let them sit on an empty strong, but in the starter you need both microbes and richer substances.

the fact is that what I have succeeded cannot be cut after a day - it is a soft putty that stretches the chewing gum behind a spoon / fork.

After what day? cut the swaddled, like? Did you swaddle?

[Newbie]

Newbie, this is after a day after feeding. It may not be possible to cut from a can, but what I had was not that obvious. It's just that this is not my first thick leaven and I see that it turns out not quite right. I have multiplied something wrong. Therefore, gluten was killed to death in a maximum of a day. After the first 48 hours, when I mixed only with fruit, there was no such structure of the dough. And the subsequent feedings all ended with the fact that in a day the dough looks like a window putty.

fits in 48 hours

The first day after the last 3rd feeding calmed down, I did not touch her, but wait, it seemed to come to life a little.
Yes, 48 ​​hours will be at 15.00, it has risen a little more in the morning, I can show you a photo.
Wait, I'll cook pizza soon, and I'll feed her at the same time.

filter with silver

Mlina, and I also have a filtered one, and there is a silver spoon in the filter, "Chef, everything is lost, everything is lost"

And the subsequent feedings all ended with the fact that in a day the dough looks like a window putty.

I also have window putty, if you roll it into a ball. I don't even pretend to be a Levito, but is it really bad for any other leaven? Active yeast.

Mlina, and I also have a filtered one, and there is a silver spoon in the filter, "Chef, everything is lost, everything is lost"

I took it from the tap, and my condition is better putties I liked the leaven rather than the filtered one.

window putty.

Well, I still have it more like her, it's in the jar - it's all in bubbles, you touch it with a spoon, it deflates and sticks to everything to death: -, then you will wash the jar with figs ...



Wait, I'll go pour some water, let it stand up ...

[Newbie]

Newbie, it's hard for me to tell. I decided for myself that this is not what I want. It's up to you to decide what to do with this leaven. The fact is that mine specifically refused to grow, although it may be a matter of time, but the fact remains - it began to bubble every day more slowly.

Mlina, and I also have a filtered one, and there is a silver spoon in the filter, "Chef, everything is lost, everything is lost"

In general, I immediately take it from the tap and pour it into a bowl, I don’t defend it ... and everything is fine!

everything is fine

In short, she needs microbes, and more ...

In short, she needs microbes, and more ...

Probably! I don't know what she needs anymore! How to please this princess?

[Rita]

Well Rita posted pictures. The internet is full of videos. At this point it is necessary to determine the leaven or putty. Actually, it is quite sticky. Look how it is peeled off even on strong flour from a towel, if without a film. When airy, then mesh, there are sticky "spider" legs.
Although I saw in the internet and dense Italians, just like cheese in bubbles, it looks like a video just like putty. This is when the horror is so dense. But it's always sticky anyway.
Well, take your "putty", pinch off a part and put it in the heat, let it spoil right to the end. Watch for changes.
Then you will understand, maybe you have it and "not a putty"

About water. Well, do not write "And I have" We have different water utilities with their purification filters. Everyone has different rigidity, purity, and so on. We can have filters with silver, silicon or other antibacterial stuff that will kill us germs in the leaven. There is only one criterion: it works or not. If not, we must look for the reason and remember that water can be it.

my leaven ...

[Lena]

Lenathank you
The video is just what you need.
Taking into account the fact that the Italian experience is 90 percent to us, only such videos can help. Any successful experience should be shared in detail, it is worth its weight in gold. Bourgeois research will not help, you can only be guided by them approximately.

Hello everyone! I am here with you in antiphase in terms of sleep / wake time, but I bring out the leaven, it was originally banana. Immediately after mixing, she woke up for a long time, did not want to grow, but after the first feeding, after 2.5 days she made it clear that life had arisen in her. The first week was very sticky, deflated when touched, but now it is getting stronger (she is already 2 weeks old), looks like Lenochka-Helen in the video, bouncing. Part, for testing, was put in the refrigerator - after 2 days it grew like this, and began to smell like a banana again

Unfortunately Manitoba is running out, if I don’t find it, I’ll have to change the "feed".
I'm already trying to bake with it, but I add the "old" dough from the previous bread and a new loaf of 5-6 hours fits. It turns out delicious!

grew in 2 days

Why did you throw it away ?! I bake bread on it, everything is fine .... now I baked it again with the addition of fried onions, mmmm delicious !!!

[j @ ne]

Why did you throw it away ?! I bake bread on it, everything is fine .... now I baked it again with the addition of fried onions, mmmm delicious !!!

What kind of bread.
Flax, and the recipe will be, me!



And mine is something like yours, too, all in bubbles!



Tomorrow, if anyone needs it, I can post pictures, becoming so to speak ...



j @ ne, Zhenya, how round she is!
My current is 6 days ...

[Trishka]

Lena, so I didn’t throw it away, I’ve put the bread on it now, I’m waiting for the rise! What a glorious bread you have! Your first photos of bread prompted me to grow Levito, I thought that nothing would work out, I just continued to feed according to the scheme and she began to gain strength. I feel sorry for throwing away any leftovers, so I train on cats. My bread with different seeds, though so far with the addition of the "old" dough, that is, a small percentage of yeast is present, but the smell of um! Flour of 2 varieties with the addition of buckwheat (that's why this color).


Trishka, Ksyushenka, a little patience and will grow, for sure! It's good that everyone shares their doubts, successes and failures, you experience all these feelings yourself, while you wait for your "living creatures".

[j @ ne]

Flax, and the recipe will be, me!

Ksyusha, it's still the same ... just added a bow ...

Artisanal bread without kneading with leaven (Serenity)

if the sourdough is weak, then you can add 0.5-1 g of yeast (at first I added, but now not), so I did it according to every ... from the refrigerator, let him rise for a couple of hours and bake ... here she showed small buns, also good bread, but for some reason I like it more with a crush, i.e. I take it out of the fridge, crumple it, well, I crumple it, I don’t crumple it much ... if in one shape, then I fold it back and forth, and if in two, then I divide it in the same way, by folding it into shapes ... it’s almost yours "Lenivka", only with leaven ... not confused ...
j @ ne, Zhenya, what a great bread! And the details ..!?

I then thought - if my sourdough dough raised the pancake dough for 5 hours (there was very little dough), then it is obvious:
1.weak yeast
2. it is not industrial yeast.
It is I who amuse myself with the hope that at least something from the Levite I have succeeded

Girls, and mine this time, after yesterday's at 16.00 (5th) feeding, grew in a 0.5 liter jar under the lid, the day has not passed yet, why feed her earlier?
And when will it be possible to use it in baking?
What are the indicators? Ascent rate?

it's still the same ...

Thanks, understood!

grew in a 0.5 liter jar under the lid, the day has not passed yet, why feed her earlier?

how many grams are in the bank?

[Helen]

Today I made the second feeding of the Italian. The consistency was the same as that of Helen on the video. Lena, great merci for clarity!

gram in the bank?

100 grams of sourdough, 100 grams of flour, 50 grams of water.

100 grams of sourdough, 100 grams of flour, 50 grams of water.

ABOUT! This is a lot, then it will rise to the top .... why do you feed so much?

So they already rested against the lid, for the first time this!
And I feed as in the recipe from the video, here in Temko there is!
Here she is, wait.

Bubbles in less than 48 hours, but grew faster.

[j @ ne, Zhenya]

j @ ne, Zhenyawhat a wonderful bread! Can you give more details? I'm done now!
Helen, Lena, you, as always - handsome! And with fried onions! Mmm! What a taste and smell!

So they already rested against the lid, for the first time this!

the consistency seems to be not cool?

[Trishka]

Girls, I knead the bread dough with Kenwood, until smooth and a beautiful bun is formed. I adhere to the proportion: for 400 g of flour - 280 ml of liquid, part (50-60 g) of wheat flour I replace with another: buckwheat, amaranth, lentil, oatmeal, etc., but I always follow the bun so that it can form and completely detach from the bowl, while remaining soft, that is, I can add a spoonful of flour or, conversely, liquid. This is exactly MY preference for bread if I bake in the form.If on the hearth, then I put a little more flour (for 1-2 tablespoons). At the end of the batch, I add different seeds or dry fried onions. Therefore, bread with different tastes is obtained. Liquid - not only water, but also + whey, kefir, potato broth. I haven't decided on the amount of sourdough yet, I'm still experimenting, I count it in the total volume of bread, like 2 parts flour, 1 water.

Trishka, Ksyusha, it seems to me that the jar will be too small for this amount of leaven!

I don’t know, I’ve fed it again, but instead of 100 grams of sourdough, I’ve already taken 80, so 80/40/80, I’ll watch.
And the remaining 135 grams can already be baked?

what's not cool?

Not, not at all steep, like biscuit dough rather, maybe a little thicker. All in bubbles.

Not, not at all steep, like biscuit dough rather, maybe a little thicker.

based on the proportions of 1 / 0.5 / 1, should it be cooler, and not even cut?

Part, for trial, was put in the refrigerator - after 2 days it grew like this,

and mine in the refrigerator practically does not grow, only liquid dough rages from it

And the remaining 135 grams can already be baked?

possible, only with the support of prom. yeast, it seems to me

not even cut?

No, Svetlan, this is me about the state before feeding.
And so yes, thick, rolled into a ball and cut into X.



Girls, and if I now make a dough from the remaining sourdough, add water / milk and flour, and I'm going to bake tomorrow, then how can I keep it warm, and then remove it in the cold?