Fluffy bread on yeast-free sourdough

Vitaly, what is the difference between the recipe - you need to read this at the very beginning of the topic, the ingredients and their ratio, and compare with your recipe, then you will see. Well, compare the technology too. In my case, in this recipe, nothing is mentioned about rye flour, and nothing about butter either. As for the readiness of the dough, you were not mistaken, everything is correct - it floats, so it's time to plant it in the oven. And the fact that the roof of the bread falls - this means your bread has excessive moisture. Try adding more flour when kneading.

Vitaly, what is the difference between the recipe - you need to read this at the very beginning of the topic, the ingredients and their ratio, and compare with your recipe, then you will see. Well, compare the technology too. In my case, in this recipe, nothing is mentioned about rye flour, and nothing about butter either. As for the readiness of the dough, you were not mistaken, everything is correct - it floats, so it's time to plant it in the oven. And the fact that the roof of the bread falls - this means your bread has excessive moisture. Try adding more flour when kneading.

The ratio is the same, I didn’t take it from the ceiling. But the fact that you don’t have rye flour - I decided to just replace wheat flour in sourdough .... And butter, they just say that it seems better ...?

Wheat bread - which has been repeatedly discussed in various sources - is harmful to health, having no benefit, but only sticking together in the body. Another Kazakh sage wrote that wheat bread is unnatural and generally brought from the Cosmos. And rye bread is native, Earthly. And there are much more bacteria useful for us.

So I "on the machine" and used rye flour instead of wheat in the sourdough. Do you think this will affect the number of components and technology?

[Fluffy]

Of course, the technology of rye and wheat bread is different. Wheat loves a punch, rye doesn't need it. Rye rises more heavily, they are waiting for it to double, and wheat can rise by two or three times ... You read, we have a section on wheat bread, rye, and rye-wheat.
And at the expense of the composition, well, I don't even know this, well, compare yourself:
Fluffy: Magic:
Opara: Opara:
Wheat sourdough 100% hydration 50 g sourdough 40g
Wheat flour 150 g Rye flour 120 g
Water 150 g Water 120 g
Dough: Dough:
Dough all Dough all
Water 190 g Water 210 g
Wheat flour 550 g Flour 440 g
Salt 1.5 tsp Salt - ?
Sugar 1.5 tbsp. l. Sugar -?
Vegetable oil 3 tbsp. l. Butter -?
Vitamin C ?
Why is she here?

Well yes! One to one recipe!

[Fluffy]

Of course, the technology of rye and wheat bread is different. Wheat loves a punch, rye doesn't need it. Rye rises more heavily, they are waiting for it to double, and wheat can rise by two or three times ... You read, we have a section on wheat bread, rye, and rye-wheat.
And at the expense of the composition, well, I don't even know this, well, compare yourself:
Fluffy: Magic:
Opara: Opara:
Wheat sourdough 100% hydration 50 g sourdough 40g
Wheat flour 150 g Rye flour 120 g
Water 150 g Water 120 g
Dough: Dough:
Dough all Dough all
Water 190 g Water 210 g
Wheat flour 550 g Flour 440 g
Salt 1.5 tsp Salt - ?
Sugar 1.5 tbsp. l. Sugar -?
Vegetable oil 3 tbsp. l. Butter -?
Vitamin C ?
Why is she here?

Well yes! One to one recipe!

It seems that then it is necessary to switch to rye) And now look at the ratios.

The water reached 210 grams, because bread was blowing away - they said here on the forum that there was not enough water. The flour is reduced proportionally, as in the dough. Everything was reduced in relation to your recipe, based on the capacity of my bread machine. It is not designed for your volume, or rather, weight.

Salt -2 tsp, because at 1.5, the bread was almost unleavened.
Sugar - 2 tbsp. spoons. Because at 1.5, the bread was slightly bitter.
Butter - 2.5 tbsp. spoons
Ascorbic acid - the instructions for the bread maker say: "Ascorbic acid is a good flour improver (1/4 teaspoon can be added)"

So where did you find the error?

[koloboks]

Vitaly, well, there are no words I increased the water in the recipe, because they showed it there, and injected ascorbic acid, because they ordered it, but Sakha, because something was bitter there (The question is, what could have been bitter at all, if only butter is not rancid), the flour is completely different, and with all this - my recipe! About a miracle, and how did I not notice that ?! You try to choose one recipe that has been proven by many and STRICTLY withstand it, then it will be easier to disassemble the result, or maybe you won't have to disassemble anything, but everything will start working out right away.
As I understood initially, you had a problem of "demolition" of the roof, that is, it was vomiting, right? So it was not the water that was to blame, but the fact that the bread was not far away, and when it was put on baking, it continued to rise from the inside, and a crust was already forming on top and could not be elastic, the bread had nowhere to grow and the roof cracked. I just had to give the bread a little longer. And your roof is falling from the fact that the waters are now overdone in the recipe.
Look here for master classes about koloboks

[koloboks]

Vitaly, well, there are no words I increased the water in the recipe, because they showed it there, and injected ascorbic acid, because then they ordered it, but Sakha, because something was bitter there (The question is, what could have been bitter at all, if only butter is not rancid), the flour is completely different, and with all this - my recipe! About a miracle, and how did I not notice that ?! You try to choose one recipe that has been proven by many and STRICTLY withstand it, then it will be easier to disassemble the result, or maybe you won't have to disassemble anything, but everything will start working out right away.
As I understood initially, you had a problem of "demolition" of the roof, that is, it was vomiting, right? So it was not the water that was to blame, but the fact that the bread was not far away, and when it was put on baking, it continued to rise from the inside, and a crust was already forming on top and could not be elastic, the bread had nowhere to grow and the roof cracked. I just had to give the bread a little longer. And your roof is falling from the fact that the waters are now overdone in the recipe.
Look here for master classes about koloboks

So it was necessary to steer somehow)) On your recipe) Maybe so a miracle would have been born)) The sourdough itself was bitter. And in general - rye flour tastes bitter, so the leaven was bitter.

The most interesting thing is that with all this "chemistry" the bread was obtained !! (Only the crust did not crunch).

Yes, from the very beginning the roof began to be demolished. And I became water - there - ships. And the bread came out well, sometimes badly: not to taste - in shape.

I began to try separately kneading, separately baking - here it did not work out normally.

He returned to the French regime. And it was possible to regulate the water - but it was not possible to catch the exact weight of the water - something was floating ...

Now I will look at all this from the point of view of your explanation. The distance is longer - the French mode does not allow (it is for 6 hours). And when he kneaded the dough separately, pinched off the ball and threw it into the water, it turned out that after 3.5 hours the dough was ready. But! Roof failures were all the same, periodically.

Now I'm playing with water. After all, bread according to "your recipe" was obtained! And then I will go on to study all the nuances and your link below too. Thank you, Ilona

Yes please! It would be for what And about the water, because you can never guess the quantity exactly by the weights, flour can be of different humidity, so it walks. You just haven’t learned to conjure over a kolobok yet, but it will come with time - learn to feel that kolobok to the touch by its elasticity, and to define it by sight. It will come with experience. I, too, at first did not understand anything and fell into a panic. And now I still consider myself a beginner. I only bake bread for less than half a year. So good luck! Write if anything.

All good health! My sourdough is still alive, ilonnna began to bake bread in one adjustment and I am satisfied there is no sourness on the rye sourdough. How are you doing for a long time?

tvfg, everything is ok! I put a new leaven after starving to death during my vacation with the old one.

I have 10 days in the fridge and does not die

No, tvfg, starving to death. It will be sour and the bread will have a thicker crust and not the same structure and aroma, alas ... The yeast will remain, and everything else is lost.

I'm a beginner in these matters, the questions may be childish, but they are).
1. Why is the dough placed in a cool place? and not in a warm one to come up? Or shouldn't it fit? Unclear.
2. Can we use whey instead of water? I know that it is welcomed for rye, but how is it for wheat?

Thank you )

[Diama]

Diama, Welcome to our forum!

I'm a beginner in these matters, the questions may be childish, but they are).
1. Why is the dough placed in a cool place? and not in a warm one to come up? Or shouldn't it fit? Unclear.

Actually, I wrote to put the dough in a warm place, you confused something, although there are recipes in which the dough is left in the refrigerator.

2. Can we use whey instead of water? I know that it is welcomed for rye, but how is it for wheat?

For wheat bread, this is not welcome due to the fact that the bread will be sour, which is not desirable for white bread.

[cool place]

I quote!

• We take an active wheat sourdough of 100% hydration (I have a Frenchwoman), knead the dough and leave it in cool place hours at 8.

Thanks for the answers, yet -
I make the dough on whole grain flour, which I grind immediately before use. I still don't know the distinctive features of flour in recipes, maybe you need more or less water? Is this flour a bit damp?
The dough is tight, can you add water? Or should it be?

And also - what is the difference between the raising and proving stage? Only by shaping the test?
Do you need to distribute where - at room temperature on a battery or in an oven?
In general, I want to know everything at once ...)

While Ilona is gone, I'll put in five cents.
But then Ilona comes and pours a pumpkin

If the dough is too steep, the crumb will be firm.
The dough should be soft, but not sticky after kneading.
We all have different flours, so you need to adjust the flour-water balance individually.

Proofing and lifting are the same thing. And the proofing time depends on t. Longer at room temperature, faster in warmth.

[Arochka]

ArochkaWhat am I supposed to give for pumpkins? Haluin is over long ago! And you say everything right!

Diama, now what you are asking about. If you want to speed up the process, then you can warm. But it is more convenient for me to put the dough in the cool in the morning or from late at night, and go go about my business. In general, the most important thing is to learn to "read" the dough, so to speak. In general, the dough should come up 2-3 times. Then you already knead the dough, let it rise 2.5-3 times too, carefully spread it on a table dusty with flour and shape the bread. Give it a distance (As I wrote in the recipe), and bake.
During molding, we set the structure of the future crumb, and of course the shape of the future loaf / long loaf ... Proofing is needed so that after manipulating the dough (albeit careful, it will settle down a little during the molding process), the dough has grown again, that the bread was not a piece of rubber. Proofing usually lasts less than the first rise, since the fermentation process has already started and is progressing. Overexposing the dough is also not worth it, otherwise it will ferment and be too sour. Further ... proofing can be done on the kitchen table. The ambient temperature leash accelerates or slows down its process. Better in a warm place so that you can put the bread in the oven as soon as possible!
Z. Y. In general, I have long switched to unpaired bread for every day, but this is only when the leaven is "not hungry."

Thanks everyone for the answers!
I just put the dough in the evening in a cool place, and she didn't even think to get up in the morning). Therefore, I took the leaven, it rose well (I fed it at the same time when I added the dough, it was just that less flour and water was added there).
And without the dough - in the sense immediately from the leaven?
Also - what is the bread for with butter? And the whole or just the roof?

I just put the dough in the evening in a cool place, and she didn't even think to get up in the morning). Therefore, I took the leaven, it rose well (I fed it at the same time when I added the dough, it was just that less flour and water was added there).
And without the dough - in the sense immediately from the leaven?

It is possible right away from the leaven, but, as I said, that did not "starve", but at the peak of the rise. Where do you put it in a cool place? It must be 16 degrees, not lower.

Also - what is the bread for with butter? And the whole or just the roof?

Oil is not necessary, it turns out softer. But lately, for some reason I have stopped doing, I myself do not know why ...

Ilona, ​​your delicious photo on the first page spurred me to try your recipe.
Well what can I say ...... it's delicious - beautiful - magnificent - aromatic - not time consuming. Forgive me for attaching a photo yet (everything is as usual, at the right time the equipment went on a temporary vacation). But if my husband said: "Here! This is such a pit !!!" This is a non-negotiable verdict! The bread was a success the first time. The sourdough was rye (the one of which we take 50 grams), second grade flour. Sugar, however, replaced with buckwheat honey, well, we like the aroma of honey in bread. And it took me 60 grams more water, but I believe that there is nothing terrible in this. Even using the same recipe, the ratio of flour-water from day to day is always different.
Ilona, ​​thank you very much for the delicious bread on our table !!!

[Inna!]

Inna! Thanks for the recipe report! The fact that there are no pictures is not a problem! The main thing is that you like the bread! I am very glad. Bake to your health! Soft aromatic bread for your home and a peaceful sky above your head!

Thanks for the recipe and detailed technology in pictures.
Thanks to you, I understood what hearth bread is.
And not only understood, but also baked it!
And it all turned out to be a ticker-picker!

There is crumb crumbling on the cut under the upper crust. This is not the fault of the bread. My wife and I could not stand it and cut off a couple of pieces from the still hot loaf.
The crumb is excellent, on cooled bread.
And in general, this bread will be baked here regularly.
Only now I will reduce everything by half. There are only two of us eaters. Therefore, when I did everything according to the recipe and received such a mass of dough, I decided to bake 2 loaves.

[Sergei]

Sergei, happy for you! By the way, I also bake half the portion. It's just that girls on our forum usually bake this size of bread, and I laid out the recipe for as much flour as usual! I bake big when there are a lot of us!
Why is your bread so darkish? Did you take other flour?

well, there are deviations in flour.
you're right.
premium flour (Makfa), and I also fed the sourdough before baking.
but, as an improver for the beneficial properties of bread, I added 50 gr. wheat bran.
with a decrease in the basic composition of flour by this amount.
and I also didn’t make a dough, but I thumped 350 grams of quickly gorged (literally in 2.5 hours of leaven).

Well, since I am an experienced photographer, I will say that the color in the photo is somewhat wrong due to complex lighting (light from a window + incandescent lamps from a chandelier).
but this is all bullshit compared to shooting against the main light source (daylight from a window in this case).
this is the main reason why the cut of the bread is dark.
also the focus rode off into the distance.
filmed with a tablet. he is my main kitchen photo-device, because I am also on the forum on it, and soap from it, and Skype and ICQ and pictures can be quickly zhmaknut and immediately thrown into the Internet. convenient in general. but, not a DSLR is .. not a DSLR!
here.

I agree, not a DSLR. I also run in the kitchen with a tablet, if this is not a photo of cakes.Conveniently, open the desired recipe and go! only my bastard hangs, and if I want to find something ... in general my nerves cannot stand it and I fly into the bedroom with a bullet to the laptop! And what the hell did you take the tablet asks? Just not to print the recipes ...

ilonnna, accept me as a fan of your furry. This is what I was looking for !!! This is my first sourdough bread in the oven. Unfortunately there is no way to make a photo report (yet). The bread turned out with a thin crust, porous, tasty. I baked in lactic acid sourdough from Admin, but fed it twice with whole grain flour, I was afraid that it would turn out sour, so I added a third of a teaspoon of soda (I read it on the forum), also part of the flour, 60-70 grams, I can't say for sure, the battery is on the scales sat down at the wrong time. was whole grain. It went up well, increased more in width, spread over the baking sheet, the bottom turned out to be dark and the cuts did not work, in general there is something to work on. But the taste pleased me. Thank you for your generosity, for the detailed instructions, for the recipe.

I'm glad you liked the bread! Thank you for your kind words! I didn't know about soda ... interesting ...

Here about soda https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=169320.0

Here's what I got! Thanks already took away!

🔗

In the context:
🔗

Light! Great! The loaf was a success!

[ilonnna]

ilonnna

I tried yesterday to bake bread according to your recipe, but nothing worked. My leaven (eternal rye) is a bully, does not want to work with wheat flour. Completely excellent rye are obtained and fit in 2-2.5 hours, but with wheat trouble .. At the first proofing it stood for more than 3 hours, there was little effect, spat, put it on the second one, stood for another 4.5, and did not fit normally. By the way, a piece of dough in a glass did not even surface in the morning (it was standing from 6.30 pm)

Well, okay, this is not the recipe's fault, but my sourdough wine. Now 2 new eternal ones are growing: rye and wheat, I'll see what happens. But even now it is already clear that rye is most likely even better than my first one, but wheat is sad ..

And for you, I actually have a question on the topic of sourness .. Does this bread have sourness? How strong is it?
Well, and in general, is it really possible for a pure leavening wheat to be completely without sourness? And if real, then what is needed for this?

Thank you!

I don't even know how to tell you. It's a matter of taste already. For my taste, so the bread is different than yeast, apparently some sourness is present. But it certainly depends on your starter culture, that is, on the degree of its ripening and on the quantity in the recipe. If she is overripe, then of course she will be very sour. If you grow and then feed your starter correctly and regularly, then your starter will be active and not sour. Sourdoughs, like home flowers, have care - they will be thanked in full, as something is wrong in their conditions of detention - they feel sad and become sour. And they are not subject to revival for good (without loss of culture), since only wild yeast remains. So feed your starter on time, keep it at the proper temperature, and you will be happy !!!

Greetings ilonnna How is your new leaven

I don't spoil my leaven and keep it in the refrigerator for a week or even more and then bake bread.

Oh, I’m ashamed to admit that I didn’t qualify for a new one. Now I’m mastering a new business - mastic cakes to order, and I don’t have enough catastrophic time for anything, let alone leaven ... her, very much already missed the real bread! It's good that there are still people who do not forget about this miracle, and they remind me from time to time!

[ilonnna]

ilonnna Thanks for the recipe. The bread is delicious. I baked it in a bread maker on an individual program. Instead of water, I put in bio-yogurt, mixed with a small amount of water to the required volume. Sourdough bread is my favorite.

p.s. for the pictures I apologize, I did it on the go, ran to work ... otherwise in the evening there will be nothing to shoot

Tata, I'm very happy for you! And for the manifestation of imagination as well! Keep it up!

[ilonnna]

ilonnna thank you from the bottom of my heart for such a wonderful recipe. Today I baked my first sourdough bread (I used raisins) It turned out just gorgeous. In some places, of course, flaws turned out (the bottom was torn, I was a little short, tired of waiting for the lump to float up just 10 minutes earlier, but these are trifles). I didn’t have time to take a full picture — three children and my husband had already taken a sample — only half remained.

Dosena, I am glad that the bread is so pretty and delicious! So tall, great! And in general, I am very happy when you, dear bakers, like my recipes! It's worth trying for this!

Many thanks to the author for the recipe. The bread is really fluffy!
I baked it in two forms, because we do not like hearth bread, and baking it is more difficult. It turned out to be two excellent bricks with a crispy crust and airy crumb.
As for the proportions, in my case there was also a lot of flour. I had to add water to a soft kolobok. Knead in x \ n on the Pizza mode. Next time I'll take less flour.
Yes, modern French sourdough (liquid). It looks like it turned out very strong, mmm. The dough rose quickly and actively. And it came out to taste as we like: with a slight sourness, but no more.
Thanks again to the author. You have everything exactly scheduled, I did not deviate from your recipe.
🔗

Katrin, thank you for the report! You have got a very nice bread! And at the expense of flour, then no matter how hard you try and do not verify the recipe, yet it is different for everyone (flour). It depends on humidity and quality. Here it is necessary to adapt.

Yes, I have been careful with flour for a long time. Even in old proven recipes, you have to put it in smaller quantities.

Your flour means good, not dry.

so I put my first bread in the oven on the second proofer! Previously, she baked only in a bread maker, until the dough ran off onto the ten. Now HP is on airing, and I had to move on to the next stage in baking - baking sourdough bread in the oven. I really want the bread to turn out and my husband liked it, otherwise I just can't find bread for his taste, although I've been baking in KhP for a long time, and since the new year only with sourdough. I put the sourdough from the rye "overfeeding". All according to the recipe. And I made a proofing basket for myself from a drushlag and fastened the towel with a string. I will pour water onto the tray, since I do not have a suitable vessel with a lid. I'm afraid to put a stainless pan, suddenly I'll try to insert the Chinese steel photo later if I figure out how. Thanks for the detailed recipe.

bread came up at the second proofing in an hour
on the first in 2.5 hours

before baking did not grease with water


so he went up in the oven

Well, wait !!! But I did not bake 30-35, but probably all 50 minutes after steam


.

Grew very much in the oven !!!

continuation of the banquet



The recipe is wonderful !!!!!

Wow! What handsome men