Wheat-rye 50x50 bread with live yeast (bread maker)

Good evening everyone! Thank you Rina for this wonderful recipe! Yesterday we baked it - I liked it very much! They baked according to the recipe, except: no vinegar was added (we don't like bread with sourness) and 100 ml. water was replaced with 100 ml of kefir. Before that, we baked custard rye bread according to a recipe from a bread machine. It also turned out delicious, but the bread according to your recipe is more airy and less moist. I think it's because of the dough. I will definitely use and bake bread according to your recipe more than once. Thank you!

but your recipe bread is more airy and less moist. I think it's because of the dough.

And, by the way, according to this principle, not only wheat-rye breads, but also wheat and butter ones are very successfully obtained. I have been baking everything with dough for a long time, according to the Rinochka method!

I baked bread. It's worth it, it's getting cold. With almost perfect kolobok and dome, and the bread rose at the beginning of baking to the top of the bucket, but at the 30th minute of baking, the dome fell off and crumpled: there was too much liquid on the face (for 400 g of flour, 375 ml of liquid).

Of course, 375 ml of liquid is used up. According to the recipe, -290 ml of water, depending on the quality of the flour, I use 260-280 ml of water plus vinegar

Ira read your method and came up with an idea to put her beloved on dough, although you need to remove the whole grain from the recipe, you would advise 10% of the whole grain to be replaced with wheat or rye. Or will it still be necessary to track both options in liquid?

Let me figure it out ...

what flour and in what proportions do you use according to your recipe?

Wheat 60% rye 30% whole grain 10%

wheat dough - at least all, at least half. This amount of whole grain will not affect lift. I would try it both in the dough and in the second batch, in order to understand when it is better.

Ok, I will definitely try. Ira is still a question if the roll is 500 gr. wheat flour, how much to put on the dough.?

I put half of the wheat flour on both the bread and the pies. I use half of the liquid for bread - I immediately estimate the moisture content of the flour, then there is no need to stand "above the soul" of the dough while waiting for the bun. If the control of the kolobok is not needed, then you can use 200 g per dough. Everything "feels like".

Ira

I'm currently working on my own recipe for lunch pies. (Working title "Dinner pies-manti baked according to the public technology")

So I knead the dough there 2 tsp yeast for 150 g of flour (80g water) + on pre-brewed boiling water and kneaded-cooled dough of 150 flour and 120 boiling water. Dough rises weaker than the local one for rye. For an hour, the volume grows about one and a half to two times.
And then on this dough I already knead another 300 g of flour with all the additives. This dough is already growing very well. (He then, in the form of pies, also bathe in boiling water. And therefore already for baking)

I'll put the recipe out soon, unless I go to the hospital. It seems to be going towards that. A heart...

[Countryman]

Countryman, well, here's another, finally spring has come, and you will "go to the hospital." Disorder! Change the terminology! If you go there, then do not thunder, but lay down on prevention. AND ALL WILL BE WELL!

Countryman, and if you don't get away from prevention, maybe it will be possible to take a mobile device with you to contact us. And then who will teach us the mind to reason?

Countryman, and if you don't get away from prevention, maybe it will be possible to take a mobile device with you to contact us.

It's only for my son. He will not give up. And he needs it more. It now takes him more on the road to work than it did for me in his years.Well, my "flight hours" only on the train have long surpassed my own time in the army. Almost all this time I read everything, and young people are on the Web. And Wi-Fi is already in the trains, although not in all, but it is slowly appearing. Unlike the hospital, it's quiet there. Yes, and all three computers are still only stationary.
So if that ...

Can anyone help quickly? There is no bread maker, I knead the dough with a combine, so the question is: after mixing rye flour, should the dough rise again and only then into the mold, or immediately into the mold and for proofing?

Can anyone help quickly? There is no bread maker, I knead the dough with a combine, so the question is: after mixing rye flour, should the dough rise again and only then into the mold, or immediately into the mold and for proofing?

I put it straight into the mold. In my opinion, Rina also wrote about this that rye (pure or half) dough rises differently.

Send the dough straight to the mold and proof it.

Send the dough straight to the mold and proof it.

ATP, I did just that

[I WILL REPEAT EXACTLY THIS from the rye tasted earlier !!!]

specially returned to the topic to thank for the wonderful hlnbushek !!!! airy, porous with a crunchy crust. There was no premium flour at hand, I replaced it with 1st grade flour ..... I did not expect a decent result .. even more so. that I forgot to add "a little bit of vegetable oil" ... the roof turned out to be even. but the bread is AWESOME !!!! I WILL REPEAT EXACTLY THIS from the rye tasted earlier !!!

I always thought that I love rye bread, but now it turned out that I love Rinin 50x50 with live yeast, only in the oven. For so long I have been looking for bread that tastes like a 12 kopeck brick from my childhood. Today my search has been successfully completed. Rinochka, thank you

I am very glad that you like bread and our tastes coincide

Rina, thank you for the recipe, it turned out very tasty bread. In our family, only I eat black bread, and my husband and daughters eat this bread by both cheeks. Instead of malt, I used kvass wort, reduced the water by this amount. It turned out beautiful, even.

I am very glad that you like bread and our tastes coincide

Rinochka, I did a little housekeeping in your recipe, trying to achieve the sourness I needed. In a day I made an old dough according to Romin's recipe (150 rye flour, 50 wheat flour, 150 kefir, 3 g of pressed yeast. There was also salt and sugar, but I did not add.) On the day of baking, half of this portion was warmed to room temperature, mixed it with the wheat component of your bread, and in the rye component by 40 ml (intuitively) reduced the amount of water. This is almost what I need. Apparently, I need the taste of rye-wheat sourdough bread, but I can't get to them yet.

there is no limit to perfection! I am also going to grow sourdough, I want to get more traditional bread. Still, vinegar is a surrogate, like nor do not twist.

there is no limit to perfection! I am also going to grow sourdough, I want to get more traditional bread. Still, vinegar is a surrogate, whatever one may say.

Why a surrogate? After all, it is also obtained as a result of the vital activity of bacteria. It seems that the ratio of acids is important. And leavens scare me with their duration and regularity. And here is still a shorter way. And you don't need to throw anything away. The remaining half of the sour dough (when I was kneading it - I didn't realize that it would turn out a lot) I want to put wheat and whole grain in Sonadorin. although sourness is not needed here. But let's see what happens.
I changed my mind about the oven on the old Sonadorin dough. I decided to bake some more rye - it quickly disappears

a surrogate - not in the sense that it is a bad substitute. It's just a replacement for what it should be. With vinegar, we add acid in a fairly pure form from the outside, "here and now." This speeds up the process. And ideally, the bread should get acid thanks to the work of the same yeast and lactic acid bacteria directly in the dough. Plus, there are also some enzymes that work with sourdough or long dough (they also affect the taste and quality of bread).

I baked bread with changes in the recipe: instead of honey - sugar, instead of malt - 35 g of kvass wort, did not add cumin and coriander. I made the dough liquid: for 150 ml of warm water, 8 g of pressed yeast, 1 hour. l of sugar and 100 g of wheat flour 1c. In the dough that rose after 40 minutes, she poured a solution in the remaining water of salt, sugar, wort. Sifted the flour. The "main" 1st batch and rise 19 min: the 2nd batch starts at 21 min. On the 6th minute of the batch, she poured PM. Proofing lasted just over 1 hour. "Baking" 15 + 60 min. The bread turned out to be soft, fluffy, 13cm high. The roof did not crack, but slightly collapsed and crumpled, although the bun and the dome were by 5 before baking. Next time I will reduce the water by 10-20 ml.

[SUPER]

Due to the fact that our site does not load photos .. I show photos from the radical ...




Well, now I'll tell you a little ...
I really like this bread ... well, just VERY .. .. I tried to bake it both in the oven and in the HP ... then the turn came to the MV ... Now in the HP I only do kneading (on the rye program = 3.30). .. I see how much time is left for the "proofing" and for this time I send the "bun" to Deksik .. I set the temperature there to 40 C, and then 50-55 minutes of baking ... it turns out just SUPER! .. From MV, some kind of bread or airy one turns out ... I don't even know what word to choose for it, in short ... this bread is much tastier in MV than in the oven or in HP .. try it, you will not regret it! and now I love him even more !!!!

Rina, hello, can you add some bran? Then maybe a little more water? or not?

in short ... this bread is much tastier in MV than in the oven or in HP .. try it, you won't regret it! and now I love him even more !!!!

Blimey! This is the first time I've heard that bread in MV tastes better. than in HP it is necessary for me to conduct an experiment, I have MV Panassonic 181

Rina, hello, can you add some bran? Then maybe a little more water? or not?

fair? I do not know. I think that if you replace some of the flour with bran (just which one?), Then you won't have to adjust the liquid. And if you add it, you will have to look at the kolobok.
.
In general, lately I have such flour that I have to reduce the amount of water by 10-20 g.

Yes, in any case, you need to focus on the bun, we all have different products, we live in different cities, and the conditions are different. Better to insure yourself with a test

Here's how it turned out. I did everything according to the recipe, added 30 grams of bran, but the roof fell anyway ... I understand that there is a lot of liquid ... I don’t know what the bun should be?
the taste is just very tasty, now I will bake rye just like that

Something like this https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49811.0

And they could overexpose on proofers, now it's hot. And you need to look at which prog they baked, if the preponderance is in the direction of rye flour, then only one proofing is needed - details are needed.
And focus not on the accuracy of adherence to the recipe, but on the conditions of kneading and baking

made a dough, then added the remaining ingredients according to the recipe, left it for half an hour for proofing, turned on the gluten-free, dropped it before baking and set it for an hour of baking

Rina, hello, can you add some bran? Then maybe a little more water? or not?

Natasha, I always bake with the addition of wheat bran. True, the baking itself is in the oven in brick molds, and the kneading and proofing is in KhP.
Here's how much I put in the dough, which may come in handy:
1 wheat flour of the highest grade 220 g
2 rye flour 220 g
3 water + kefir (or other sour milk) All together 310-315g. In the brew for wheat flour (220g) water goes 170 g, and the remaining 140-145 g is already kefir (145 g) or whey (then 140g)
4 Honey 35 g. Or sugar 3 tbsp. l dimensional. Almost all the time I do it with sugar, I didn't really notice the difference, except that the bucket is easier to wash than when sticky honey.
5 natural apple cider vinegar 22 g
6 salt 2.5-2.8 tsp (dimensional)
7 bread kvass dry 3 tbsp. l (measured) or fermented rye malt 1.5 tbsp. l. (measured) Malt - I don't brew it, it tastes better for me.
8 Wheat bran 3 tbsp. l. (measured) with a large slide.
9 sunflower oil 3 tbsp. l. (iron)
10 self-ground coriander (+ added a little caraway seeds, anise seeds and fennel during grinding). But 90% of my mixture is coriander. 3 tsp (measured) - in the dough and + separately for sprinkling
11 pressed yeast 7-8 g. - it used to be like this when it was baked on the machine on the Rye program. Now I put 3-4 g, but it takes a long time - three or four hours. I will not describe the process itself, you bake in HP, and not in the oven, I just wanted to tell the amount of what to put.

Unfortunately, there is no malt (and dry kvass, etc.), and the yeast is dry saf-moment. Tell me how you can get out?) Panasonic oven 2502

Probably choose a different recipe. This recipe is just for live yeast. With dry ones, it probably won't work out that way.

I do not know. Maybe it could be done with dry yeast, but the whole "load" to flour is designed for bread like Borodinsky. You can try the same sponge method, but without honey and malt, or with a minimum amount of honey (sugar). There will be just wheat-rye gray bread.

[Rina]

Rina, thanks for the recipe. True, I also slightly corrected it for myself and put 200g. sourdough and halved the amount of yeast, the rest is all according to the recipe, including vinegar. The result is a wonderful bread that is not at all sour. I'm going to repeat today

Rina, I join those who thanked for this recipe. It was my second bread in life and wheat-rye at once, hence, probably, so many mistakes. First, I took cold water for dough. I prepared the dough on the "Yeast dough" program (15 minutes kneading, 60 minutes rise). Then I turned on the Gluten Free program. Secondly, the bun seemed to me too liquid and sticky, although I read that everything is different with rye flour. Nevertheless, I could not stand it, I added a couple of tablespoons of wheat flour. But this had little effect on the situation. Thirdly, I completely forgot to add oil, added it after mixing, tried to stir it in with a spatula - nothing happened, I put the program over again. Fourthly, probably, it was necessary to let the dough rise higher by turning off the program (in it the rise is 60 minutes), since the dough did not rise very much. But when the baking was turned on, the bread literally drifted up and the crust cracked strongly:

This turned out to be a bread as a result with a huge crack on the entire crust:

And this in a cut, after it has cooled down:

Another mistake: I didn't notice that I have 9% vinegar, and 6% in the recipe. Less could have been added.
In general, I liked the bread very much in taste, but the crumb turned out to be slightly plasticine. What could be the reason for this? Is there one of the mistakes I mentioned, or are there other reasons?
PySy: I apologize for the quality of the pictures (telephone).

[Dusen]

Dusen, thanks for the tip. I'm glad the recipe went to work.

yuryd, I am far from being a pro in bakery. Moreover, with so many changes, it is difficult to say what could have influenced the result. Cracks in bread are usually due to lack of liquid and, as a result, proofing. Due to the density of the dough, it is difficult for him to rise during the proofing. And if there is not enough proofing at the beginning of baking, the dough continues to rise, and the crust on top has already grabbed.

[yuryd]

yuryd, it is also possible that the kneading of rye flour two times (because of the oil) influenced it. And also - your dough was made on the Yeast mode, you wrote, there is 15 minutes of kneading and 60 minutes of proofing. So, weren't there any wrinkles during the proofing? Dough just need to stand warm without unnecessary body movements to mature. Next time, if there are kneading, then remove the spatula immediately after kneading, then the kneading will not affect the dough.

[yuryd]

yurydSo, weren't there any wrinkles during the proofing?

According to the table in the instructions, there is no kneading. And the tables here are very detailed.
Tell me, 55 minutes of baking can't be enough for this bread?
And a question about malt. I bought unfermented and fermented. Unfermented was poured into this bread. Maybe you should have had a second? How do they differ at all? I read it from Admin, but there is mainly about the technology of obtaining it. I did not find details about the differences when used in home baking.

According to the table in the instructions, there is no kneading. And the tables here are very detailed.
Tell me, 55 minutes of baking can't be enough for this bread?
And a question about malt. I bought unfermented and fermented.Unfermented was poured into this bread. Maybe you should have had a second? How do they differ at all? I read it from Admin, but there is mainly about the technology of obtaining it. I did not find details about the differences when used in home baking.

I won't tell you about malt, I don't know, I put fermented one, I bought this one. And 55 minutes, I think is not enough. In my HP, in the instructions for gluten-free bread, baking takes 50-50 minutes, and on the Rye program - 1 hour.
And you don't have a separate Baking program there, then you could knead and prove it on Gluten-free (and I knead and proof it on the French Dough prog, the kneading is longer there and I can distribute it a little longer if I see that it hasn't settled yet), and after you have already moved away, then turn on the Baking, but I would not put it for an hour, but somewhere for 1 hour 10 minutes. Or even a little more, experiment. Why not 1 hour, I just suspect that besides the fact that HP on Rye bakes longer, it also gives more degrees (just like in the oven, it is made a little hot there for rye bread).

Mona1, and a slightly plasticine crumb may be a sign of under-baked bread, or the reason is something else. There is a separate "Baking" mode, but then you will have to work with this bread in more than three modes.

Mona1, and a slightly plasticine crumb may be a sign of under-baked bread, or the reason is something else. There is a separate "Baking" mode, but then you will have to work with this bread in more than three modes.

Of course, if it is not baked, but do not expect rye bread to be as light as wheat bread. I read somewhere that the correct black is when you cut, and the knife after that does not remain as clean, and the white is correct - when the knife sparkles after cutting. And that there are three modes is not scary, unless, of course, you are one of the people who need to press a couple of buttons and no longer approach the unit. I also bake this bread, and I bake all the others in 3 modes, but the truth is that my third mode is the oven, I like baking from there more, and there is an opportunity to get away from the bread-baking form of a loaf. I bake in aluminum forms with GOST bricks. Here is Rinyn 50/50 baked in them in the oven:

There is a separate "Baking" mode, but then you will have to work with this bread in more than three modes.

It's okay that on three, experiment! everything is only for the benefit of delicious bread

It's okay that on three, experiment! everything is only for the benefit of delicious bread

rusja, we have twin stoves with you. How do you bake this bread in Orion? What modes?