Wheat-rye 50x50 bread with live yeast (bread maker)

In Ashan I bought coarse rye flour, WALLPAPER, and baked on it today, but I don’t understand at all how it differs from peeled off? And how does this affect its properties?

Good afternoon!
Girls and boys, I have been the owner of HP Panasonic 2501 for 2 whole days. I have already made a cake and two ordinary breads. Now I'm trying on rye.
I have a question, maybe a stupid one ... What spatula should I put when kneading bread according to this recipe, regular or for rye bread?
It seems that everything starts with kneading wheat flour, but the second batch is with rye flour, and you can't change the scapula?

Wheat-rye bread - use any spatula, with a simple spatula you can also knead the dough

Quote: Elena S from Today at 09:15 AM

Good afternoon!
Girls and boys, I have been the owner of HP Panasonic 2501 Smiley for 2 whole days. I have already made a cake and two ordinary breads. Now I'm trying on rye.
I have a question, maybe a stupid one ... What spatula should I put when kneading bread according to this recipe, regular or for rye bread?
It seems that everything starts with kneading wheat flour, but the second batch is with rye flour, and you can't change the scapula?

I bake this bread every other day. I use a spatula for rye bread. Only a little bent the upper prong - I decided to scoop up flour from the corners with a wooden spatula during kneading, it pereklinila so little. Now like this

Now I have a silicone spatula. Lazia in a working HP only with it. And I continue to knead this bread with a crooked spatula. Kneads great! And the bread is wonderful - just a song! Thanks Rinochka!

(Tanya, sorry, I accidentally edited your message) Rina

Thank you girls for answering my "childish" questions, and thanks to Rinochka for the recipe and its detailed coverage!
I report:
I baked bread, there was no dry kvass, I found a liquid kvass concentrate on the far shelf, it turned out to be expired. Nevertheless, I added it a little (1 tbsp. L), removing 1 tbsp from the liquid. l. water.
Eh, the camera is broken ...
The brick turned out to be beautiful, moderately fried.
The roof is not sunken, but not convex either; a drop sagged during the cooling period under the towel. I measured the height - 8 cm. It turned out to be a little thick and, as it seems to me, a little bit wet. For the first wheat-rye bread, I think the result is a solid four. (Rina, this is not your assessment, I just still lack knowledge)
I liked the taste, I will continue to experiment!
Possible mistakes: during the temperature equalization, all the other ingredients fell asleep in half an hour. Perhaps this is not enough and it was necessary to let the dough stand still? (Fresh yeast, white bread rises with a bang)
Or is it about kvass?

[Lena]

Lena, I do not know. Maybe it's in kvass, maybe in yeast, maybe in flour ... in the weather, our mood, the phase of the moon, the activity of the sun, etc.

It usually takes me an hour to raise the dough for psh-rye bread. I have long forgotten about the convex roof - the flour has changed, somehow I don't really like its quality. It seems that now they brought several kg of the same one on which there was a good result.But on the other hand, this bread is tasty even with a collapsed roof

By the way, now I add cumin seeds as spices - I like it better.

Hello! I only use HB Panasonic 2501 for a week. I did not quite understand some points. Pizza mode for my HB 45 minutes. Pshenich. Do you just knead flour + yeast + water on pizza mode? That is, only 15 minutes out of 45 and reset? And another question, how long after turning on the rye mode do you need to lay the rest?

Welcome to us!

one.Yes, we stop the "pizza" mode after 15 minutes (when the first batch ends) - we reset it by pressing and holding the "start / stop" button.
2. We immediately start the "rye" mode - it also has a period of "temperature equalization". And we begin to collect the rest of the products in a bucket (by the way, it is better to do this by removing the bucket from the stove - so as not to spill or spill something).

Welcome to us!

2. We immediately start the "rye" mode - it also has a period of "temperature equalization". And we begin to collect the rest of the products in a bucket (by the way, it is better to do this by removing the bucket from the stove - so as not to spill or spill something).

Thank you! So I did everything right, except that I did not take out the bucket, and sprinkled some rye flour inside the HB. In other recipes I read that rye bread is recommended not to be taken out immediately, but to wait a while and after it is taken out, it is also kept for some time. Does this also apply to your recipe?

Quote: Elena S from Today at 09:15 I bake this bread every other day. I use a spatula for rye bread. Only a little bent the upper tooth - I decided to scoop up flour from the corners with a wooden spatula during kneading, it pereklyila so little. Now like this

Now I have a silicone spatula. Lazia in a working HP only with it. And I continue to knead this bread with a crooked spatula. Kneads great! And the bread is wonderful - just a song! Thanks Rinochka!

(Tanya, sorry, I accidentally edited your message) Rina

please tell me what is the difference in the shoulder blades (I have the usual, but rye kneads)

[Rina]

Rina, the bread turned out delicious !!! Above I asked a question about exposure, but could not resist and immediately cut it. Already launched the second loaf

Welcome to us!

1. Yes, we stop the "pizza" mode after 15 minutes (when the first batch ends) - we reset it by pressing and holding the "start / stop" button.
2. We immediately start the "rye" mode - it also has a period of "temperature equalization". And we begin to collect the rest of the products in a bucket (by the way, it is better to do this by removing the bucket from the stove - so as not to spill or spill something).

But I just wanted to ask you something. Recently, I somehow regret driving the stove and in the Pizza mode (sometimes Pelmeni) I knead for 4-5 minutes. , so that everything is gathered in a pile and dumped. Is it so important that it is necessary on the pizza and until the end of the batch.
And there are also such thoughts: There, on the Pizza, after the first batch, the rise according to the table. This means that the heating elements begin to slightly warm the dough. And what if you try to wait until the end of the first batch, and then do not immediately turn it off, but even if the first rise on the Pizza passes, the dough will lie warm, and at the end of the first rise, turn it off and only then add everything else and put it with Rye.

Tanya, I just arrived, I read and understand little ... Why do you regret driving the stove? She is intended for this! And a normal dough of 200 grams of flour for her is not a load! When kneading with a good duration, its own processes take place, in the wheat dough "gluten develops", that is, the structure of the dough changes. It is accepted that the better this gluten is developed, the better the dough structure will be. In rye flour, this gluten is either not present, or it is extremely small (therefore, the bread turns out to be denser).

I don’t know about waiting for the rise and the second one too. I am afraid that the dough can easily stand. But without experiment, we will not get a real result. If you dare, then share information, please

Tanya, I just arrived, I read and understand little ... Why do you regret driving the stove? She is intended for this! And a normal dough of 200 grams of flour for her is not a load! When kneading with a good duration, its own processes take place, in the wheat dough "gluten develops", that is, the structure of the dough changes. It is accepted that the better this gluten is developed, the better the dough structure will be. In rye flour, this gluten is either not present, or it is extremely small (therefore, the bread turns out to be denser).

I don’t know about waiting for the rise and the second one too. I am afraid that the dough can easily stand. But without experiment, we will not get a real result. If you dare, then share information, please

I don't know, I did 15 minutes at first, then another time 5 minutes. Somehow it seemed that the total total for the bread is the same. And the stove is new, I regret it. I often use Pelmeni instead of Pizza at the preliminary kneading, as it seemed that it was not so "aggressive" kneading something on Pelmeni. I also bake pure white, but there I add another hour and a half by the timer. And the idea about 15 minutes and wait for the end of the first ascent on Pizza - this idea stuck. Come on, tomorrow or the day after tomorrow I'll bake your bread in this mode and unsubscribe, what happened, OK?

Rina I also baked bread according to your recipe :) The bread is very tasty Thank you! We ate it very quickly !! We didn't have time to take a picture I have a question; If I replace peeled rye flour with whole grain rye flour will it not be worse? Advise me!

[Jera]

Girls, lovely ... thanks for the recipe reviews.

Jera, I don't know what will happen. Unfortunately, I am not that well versed in rye flour. As I wrote a few messages ago, on one flour this bread turns out almost always and perfectly, and on the other - alas. I don’t even know what it’s connected with (maybe due to the fact that in retail sale this flour may not be GOST flour). If the flour is whole grain, but not coarsely ground, then everything should work out.

[Rina]

Rina, I have no coarse flour. I will definitely try to bake and write what happened.

Hello.
After mastering simple recipes, finally encroached on rye. Everything worked out the first time. After reading the forum, I realized that many have problems with purchasing malt. It is difficult to buy kvass wort or dry kvass in winter - it is not profitable for shops to sell it, and you will not be enough for the winter. I got out of the situation by using porridge "Solodukha" produced by "Belovodye" instead of malt. In our store, it is sold all year round. Unfortunately, the manufacturer does not write the composition of the product on the box, but indicates that there is malt in it. Judging by the appearance of the porridge, there is still, in my opinion, bran or something cereal, but this bread did not interfere. I don’t give a direct link to the company's website, but it’s not a problem to find it through a search engine. And one more small change - in the recipe, I replaced 150g of water in the first batch with kombucha. I always bake bread on it. Delicious bread turned out.

[Rina]

RinaThank you very much for the good recipe.

Rina, I set up an experiment, as promised, with the dough turned off not after the end of the first batch, but at the end of the first ascent on Pizza. The bread turned out to be with a good convex roof, albeit slightly crooked. A bit of a crack in the roof. Instead of honey (ended put 2.5 tbsp. L. Sugar and added 20 ml. Water. But, apparently, honey has more liquid component and 20 ml. Is not enough). There was a total of 210 ml. water and 100 ml. serum. This is for 200 g of wheat flour and 180 g. rye. Yeast Presses. - 8 g.


Then, after a couple of days, I again did the same as above, but added another 20 ml of water (only 230 ml of water and 100 ml of serum for the same amount of flour as above). And added another hour on the timer. The bread came out higher, but the roof sagged a little and in the section the upper part had large holes, it can be seen that the roof could not resist on this airiness, although without cracks. Here he is:



To tell the truth, I taste closer to the option that does not belong to these two, but the way I did the very first time, well, maybe because it was the first, I don’t know. It's just 4-5 minutes kneading for Pizza or Dumplings and then I put everything else - and on the Rye mode without a timer. The bread turns out to be more plump, or something, than in these two versions and may, because of this, seem to be richer in taste.

By the way, about the taste. Now I'm experimenting with spices. I put a mixture of coriander and caraway seeds in a ratio of 5: 1 Caraway is not so much, I do not really like it after a couple of times when my husband prepared his signature dish and put more cumin, since the spices that had to be put were not at hand.And in an hour and a half, somewhere after eating, both times merechteliki appeared in my eyes and a migraine attack began. And this despite the fact that I do not suffer from this. Before these cases, maybe a year ago something like this happened once. I read in the Internet about the causes of migraines and one of the reasons, indeed, is some kind of food irritant. Moreover, for each person there is such an irritant. That is, I feel bad from cumin, someone from something else. People, do not give up cumin after my post. This is my cross, so to speak.

So, on the forum I found a recipe for a standard spice mixture for rye bread, indicating the ratios. If necessary, I will look and write. So there are 4 elements: cumin, coriander, grains of anise and fennel. So now I ground the anise and fennel a little and added it by eye to the previously injected caraway and coriander. Interesting notes have appeared. Although, it may not be more suitable for this bread (your Borodinsky reminds), but for such as Ukrainian. In general, I'm experimenting, the neighbors are sitting under the window (I have the first floor), twisting their noses.

[If it's necessary]

on the forum I found a recipe for a standard spice mixture for rye bread, indicating the ratios. If it's necessary, I will look and write. So there are 4 elements: cumin, coriander, grains of anise and fennel.

Kaneshna, it is necessary
Thanks for the experiments, it's interesting to read

Kaneshna, it is necessary
Thanks for the experiments, it's interesting to read

Well, I found it, I copied it from our forum. I don't know who wrote it. It's just that I collect a bunch of everything that interests me in my store. I quote, as a quote, without changing the words of the author:
"Bread Spice Mix contains:
whole cumin seeds - 5 tbsp. l.
coarse coriander - 2 tbsp l.
grain anise - 1 tbsp. l.
fennel grain - 1 tbsp. l.

I buy these spices in the market from the Uzbeks, there all this is mixed in a jar and transferred to me in a bag, I buy a double portion and slowly spend it.

This spice mixture is the best match for rye (or mixed) bread.
For 400-500 grams of flour, it is enough to add 1 tbsp. l. mixtures. "

I do not buy from Uzbeks, but buy it all in bags in the supermarket and mix it. Moreover, so that the bags contain not chalk, but whole grains. For example, we sell coriander both ground and peas. I take the peas. Then I mix everything in the ratio I like and grind it slightly in a coffee grinder on a combine. Not into dust, but lightly. And I don’t take the ground in bags right away, because you never know what has been piled and added. And maybe half of it is already exhausted.
I do not grind for 1 time, but grind myself a third or half of a small glass jar of Jacobs coffee, screwed it tightly with a lid and use it as needed.
By the way, I put 1.5-2 tsp bread on Rinyn. (dimensional)

The bread spice mix looks like this:



And she is written here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8242.0

I never grind all the spices, everything is good in moderation

Oh, Tatiana, these are your words I laid out! Thanks for the link. I collected all this information in fits and starts when I was just preparing to buy HP. Now, as you master, I want to know more about a lot, in particular, about spices. I went to read!

Yes, what is already there, bake for health

Try not to completely grind the mixture and leave some of the grains intact to taste. I buy and mortgage as shown in the photo. That is why I buy from the Uzbeks in the market that they put me both ground (not in the dust!) And whole spices in the right proportion.

The bread tastes interesting!

Rina, can you please tell me if you can replace dry malt with liquid malt? We sell malt in stores for making kvass, if so, what proportion is needed ??

and where is the smiley face, the back of the head?

here is a topic about malt and malt preparations. Maybe there is an answer? Or at least someone will give a normal recommendation
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=179.0

Subtract the liquid malt from the total liquid. Take liquid malt to taste - from 40 to 80 ml. After all, if you judge what liquid malt is - is it dry malt steamed with boiling water? From here we dance.

Small report:



Panas 2501wts. Finished weight 770 grams. Instead of malt 2 tbsp. l. kvass wort.

The crumb is normal, not at all wet, does not stick ..

A very successful and interesting recipe.

Take two. Something quickly ate the previous one ...


This rye is 50 grams more, wheat, respectively. less

And this is how it turns out if you smear and sprinkle it with seeds on top.
🔗

By the way. This time the option was experimental.
First, neither malt nor kvass wort was used.
Secondly, the rye part was kneaded in cucumber brine instead of water. From home cucumbers, in turn pickled with mustard powder. Such is the exotic.
But the whole humor is that it was not possible to catch a noticeable difference in the taste of the resulting bread ..

Guys, what great bread you have! I already envy
For some reason I hadn’t put on dark bread for a long time, but I was just going to try the GOST recipe of Ukrainian bread on my own method. I really hope that something worthy will turn out.

and pliz link, in Ukrainian

will - = will be ... if the experiment succeeds today, then I will post it.

For purely cognitive reasons, I decided to bake this bread with rhubarb. From the garden.
According to the technology I described here on page 7. Correction of the main recipe was as follows:
1. No kvass-malt added.
2. I did not use vinegar either - rhubarb is already sour in itself.
3. For every 50 g of rhubarb, he reduced the amount of water by 30 g (it should be 40). With division by batch.
4. No cumin-coriander added. To separately feel the contribution of rhubarb to the taste.

50 g of rhubarb stalks were added to the dough. Cut into small pieces.
In the second batch (with rye flour), 150 g has already been added.Total total rhubarb 200 g.

Overall impressions of the result are mixed.
From the first “bite” I didn't like the bread very much. Neither me nor my sister who helped to taste. It seemed a bit damp. After that we both (!) For some reason cut off the next piece, then another ... and so on until only 200 grams of the loaf remained. A couple of days later, returning from the dacha, I finished the rest. The lying, it seems, went to the benefit of bread. He became closer to the correct humidity. Water should be laid less, I noted already.
Such are the things ...

For purely cognitive reasons, I decided to bake this bread with rhubarb. From the garden.
According to the technology I described here on page 7. Correction of the main recipe was as follows:
1. No kvass-malt added.
2. I did not use vinegar either - rhubarb is already sour in itself.
3. For every 50 g of rhubarb, he reduced the amount of water by 30 g (it should be 40). With division by batch.
4. No cumin-coriander added. To separately feel the contribution of rhubarb to the taste.

The experience, of course, is interesting, but it would be better to lay it out in a separate recipe. Because malt (kvass) in the recipe is one of the most important elements, and so is vinegar, even though there is rhubarb. For example, I replace part of the water with whey, it is also acidic, but I don't touch vinegar, let alone malt. This is not a trifle, such as add water or salt, correct yeast, you threw out half of the recipe. The coriander was also thrown away, well, in principle, the spice is not so scary, maybe rhubarb will replace the aroma. And after all your changes, what is left? Wheat and rye flour 50 to 50, so a bunch of recipes with such and approximately such a ratio, live yeast - so here most of any bread bakes on them. Thank God, at least they left the honey. I do it according to Rinochka's recipe 2-3 times a week, I follow the branch, how the people bake, what notes they add or subtract, and you have not removed a note, but a whole chord and more than one. Play the musician a piece with such changes, do you think someone will guess what the recipe was? But it is necessary to change so that the music is still heard by the author, but the arrangement changed so that it is the author's recipe that opens up to us with new exciting and pleasant sides.
Try to do this: put your own recipe separately, maybe slightly corrected, if you don't like it very much in the result, but here say that you tried to make some changes and it turned out "Bread 50 * 50 with rhubarb and no malt". Well, or some other name. And give a link where your recipe is posted. So that the people go there and discuss your recipe there. Rina, like any author, wants her recipe to be discussed here in this thread.
If you found my response in something infringing or annoying, I'm sorry, I didn't want to.

For purely cognitive reasons, I decided to bake this bread with rhubarb. From the garden.
According to the technology I described here on page 7. Correction of the main recipe was as follows:

Your recipe is different from the author's, this is a different bread! Let's put it on the forum according to all the rules on your behalf and according to your recipe.

[real new]

And give a link where your recipe is posted. So that the people go there and discuss your recipe there.

This is not a recipe. This is an experiment, nothing more. Information for information. I mentioned it in the very first phrase.
An invitation to discussion. Here we are, you look, discussing, together and then we will create real new recipe.
But the recipe is a worked-out thing. Brought. The responsibility for it is much greater. And the volume too. This is more salt per gram - and what is the recipe right away? Well, don't tell me, girls (grandmothers, aunts, daughters ... etc.), don't make my saucepans laugh. And I try not to make anyone laugh either. So trained. Scientific methodology. 40 years ago. At the Physics Department of Moscow State University.

... I follow the branch, how the people bake, what notes they add or subtract, and you have not removed a note, but a whole chord and more than one. Play the musician a piece with such changes, do you think someone will guess what the recipe was? But it is necessary to change so that the music is still heard by the author, but the arrangement changed ...

The comparison, I must say, is not very good. Maybe you don't know enough about music? Or, perhaps, you just use banal arguments outright? (nothing personal…)
For example, I am a graduate of the usual Soviet music school (accordion class), and now I can easily replace single notes with chords in most of the melodies being replicated without distorting the basic one (including someone else's melody). Do I have to claim for independent authorship after that?

Example.
Remember.
"Campanella" - writing Paganini, arranged for piano F. Liszt .
This is the correct approach. Copyright.

Rinochka, brace yourself, your recipe is the best.

Rina, I am writing on this forum for the first time, I am grateful for this recipe. I baked a lot of bread (and all from this site), but I decided to unsubscribe after I baked your bread. Now this is my favorite bread. And a small loaf - just for me, because I love to bake a new loaf every day. Special thanks to the creators for this site, without it my bread machine would have gone under the hammer long ago

Rina, your bread is a miracle! How many times have I baked it, and even at that moment it’s baking, but now I slowly began to bake bread in the oven. I have acquired a baking stone and am happy as a child. Nothing burns, as it used to be, everything is just great. But so far I just started baking like that. So far, only wheat bread. I knead, distribute in HP, then knead and on the table in a basket I distribute a second time.
Do you want to try baking your bread, did you bake it in the oven? If so, tell me what needs to be changed in quantity, maybe reduce the liquid. And how to knead - to stir up? And also - a baking oven or in a mold? I have such a Soviet-era bread pan.

I baked it once (!) In the form of a brick. I don’t remember why it was like that. Or was I then mastering baking in the oven? In general, the recipe was the same, I did not change anything. Immediately after kneading, I put the dough into a mold (I think I moistened my hands with water), greased with non-stick grease (lard + butter + flour), let it rise and put it in the oven. Everything worked out great.

I baked it once (!) In the form of a brick. I don’t remember why it was so. Or was I then mastering baking in the oven? In general, the recipe was the same, I did not change anything. Immediately after kneading, I put the dough into a mold (I think I moistened my hands with water), greased with non-stick grease (lard + butter + flour), let it rise and put it in the oven. Everything worked out great.

Thank you, Rina, I'll try.

Rinochka, thanks for the delicious recipe! The bread is sooo tasty !!! I didn't change anything in the recipe. Baking in Moulinex in an aluminum mold. The dough is lovely, the very thing you need. Shifting was easy. And what is easily obtained, and even tasteful, I always bake with pleasure.

oh, what a honey

Thank you, Rinochka, the bread really tastes like a miracle!

Girls, this isn't the first time I've read about non-stick grease. I just grease baking dishes with lard all my life. And mom does it, and grandma did it. Everything flies off at once. And pies and pasties. It's easier than making a mixture. Or maybe, what secret is it for bread?

Rina, I completely forgot to write: the roof did not crack. I read all the pages and many of them either cracked or had gaps. Well, I expected that she would crack like everyone else. But she - no!

Rinochka, can I have a question?

Maybe I do that stupid inattentive. If the dough is kneaded and it costs an hour to proof. When should the remaining ingredients plump on it? By the end of the hour? And then the dough tries, rises, and I'll bang it from above

Immediately after kneading the dough, I pour flour on top of it and pour out the liquid, then it all rises for an hour. And nothing - the dough has enough strength to grow and grow ... We don't need to get a fluffy dough right away, we need the dorzhzhi and wheat flour to work. And they work even with "pressure from above".

[Rina]

I went to the original source, from where I got this wonderful bread recipe from Rina... For which many thanks to the author of the recipe. And here Rina another child of yours by right. Take him to your family.

Today I exhibit my 50 * 50 wheat-rye bread according to the recipe Rina, baked in the L7 form, placed in a Panasonic 2500 bread maker. The bread has risen 2.5 cm above the form. It looks like I overexposed it on the proofer for 1 hour and 47 minutes. Small mushroom. And sinful, once opened to see. But it was baked great. I was afraid that it would blow the roof off, but not a single crack.

this is a general view

Well, this is a cut, as it should be.

And the last, in my opinion, the most important shot of the baked crumb. I am very afraid and do not like raw crumbs. Thank God, everything worked out and was baked. The bread tastes just fine.

Thank you Rine for a wonderful bread recipe.