Leaven from Alain Kumon

Good afternoon, comrades!
I came across a book by Kumon (this is the uncle who founded the chain of cafes-bakeries "Khleb Nasuschny") with a biography and recipes. The bread in his establishments is expensive, but delicious. We buy it periodically, but now we decided to do it, especially since there is a description of its leaven.
He suggests doing THIS as follows:
1 day.
In the morning, mix 100 g of wheat flour, 60 g of water and a pinch of salt, cover with a plate. leave in the kitchen.
In the evening, add 100 grams of flour, 60 grams of water and a pinch of salt, cover the plate and leave it in the kitchen.
2nd and subsequent days.
In the morning we take 150 g of sourdough, add 100 g of flour, 60 g of water, a pinch of salt, cover, leave.
In the evening, add 100 g of flour, 60 g of water, salt, cover, leave.
On the 11th day, you can bake bread from this business.
My something is already the fourth day, I will not say that there are obvious bubbles, but it smells sour and has some interesting structure.

What do you think?
While I will share my impressions, next Sunday there will be a result

The first results are already available.
The leaven is actively rising, although it is quite thick, bubbling, there is a distinct alcoholic smell, like the kvass that my grandmother once made.
Yesterday I tried to bake bread - "from the bulldozer", I just threw in the bread maker the leaven of the current day "for discard", flour, water, butter, etc. I was wondering if this would work at all.
Oddly enough, the result is a very tasty bread with a VERY correct bread smell (which I could not get with yeast) with a very good texture, and, which is typical, very tasty.
But it seemed to me that the leaven was a little not for HP - I would give the bread a little more distance.
Today is the second part of the experiment.

[Lorana]

But it seemed to me that the sourdough was a little not for HP - I would give the bread some distance.
Today is the second part of the experiment.

Lorana
That is why sourdough bread, with rye flour, is often baked not on a given HP program, but composing its own one, which differs from the standard one, like in Panasonic, or in programmed HPs they increase the Rise period.
Your intuition and sense of the baker did not let you down

[Lorana]

Lorana, and how many days can this leaven stand in the refrigerator? I don't bake bread often, or rather rarely.

[lana7386]

lana7386
Rather, it became clear from the result, although I just threw it out - to see if it rises or not.
Today I will make flutes with hazelnuts and raisins, tomorrow - the first normal bread from this sourdough (without HP at all), since there is still time.
I'll take a picture of the result!
I also have something that is waiting for Sunday - we will compare the result
Cook
How much is stored in the refrigerator - I don't know yet, I'll try.
The book says about several days, but there is an important clarification.
What turns out on the 11th day of this process, then you need to bring it to the condition as follows: mix 310 g of sourdough with 300 ml of water, 500 g of flour, add a pinch of salt and set for another 5 hours.
This is what bread is already made of and "kept in a refrigerator for a short time." I myself think it will be quite easy to maintain an 11-day culture.

Results.
Last night it turned out 12 absolutely wonderful-tasting flutes with raisins and nuts, today - an epic size of a loaf.
The leaven is excellent, it raises the dough very well.
About the loaf and pictures - tomorrow.
But even now I can say that I am very pleased that I got involved in all this.
The only problem is that there is a LOT of sourdough dough.
Out of 310 grams of the "initiating" part (what I actually sour) I get 1110 grams of the actual leaven, which already raises the dough. It turns out two loaves of 2 kg each.

Results: continued.
The bread is simply incomparable!
Very tasty.
And finally fodge!
Flute

Loaf

[Lorana]

Results: continued.
The bread is simply incomparable!
Very tasty.

Lorana , my admiration!

Thank you!
Indeed, it turns out very tasty pastries, the taste is not worse than the original (in Khleb Nasuschny).
I am very pleased that I started this event.
Next in line is bread with cereals and a baguette.

[Lorana]

The bread is simply incomparable!
Very tasty.

Delightful! Bravo!!!
Masterpiece!

I am very pleased that I started this event.

This event is important and necessary.
Wish you luck!

Next in line is bread with cereals and a baguette.

Will wait.
Lorana, You write down the recipe there, okay? It's customary here to share recipes. I baked it, it turned out, I liked it - treat my colleagues in the forum. In the appropriate section, of course.

Of course!
Tomorrow there will be a control bake and a big report!

So, the promised debriefing.
1. About terminology.
Sourdough is prepared in two stages - growing the CULTURE and preparing the Sourdough itself.
The culture is prepared for 10 days in the way described in the first message of the topic. The culture can raise the dough in about a week, but I liked the ten-day culture better - it has better texture and smell. The culture turns out to be quite thick, more like dough in consistency.
The sourdough itself is obtained from the culture as follows: in the morning there is a certain amount of culture in the bowl. For 310 grams of culture, take 300 ml of water, 500 grams of flour, a pinch of salt, knead and leave to rise for 5 hours. What happens is considered leaven.
The leaven turns out to be very powerful, it raises the dough remarkably. From the resulting volume of dough, 2 loaves of 2 kg each are obtained.

2. About technology.
Bread is made from leaven. The leaven, as I said, is completely lethal.
We get a father-in-law for bread by mixing 750 g of sourdough, 1.75 l of pure water, 2.5 kg of flour and 40 g of salt.
The dough turns out to be pleasant and very pliable.
If you want to add some ingredients to the dough besides water, table and flour (seeds, baked goods - butter, sugar, vanilla, etc.) - this should be done at this stage, since it will be more difficult to interfere with the dough.
After the dough is kneaded, we leave it for proofing for 1.5 hours, but we precipitate the dough every 15 minutes - so it will be bulkier, stronger and more airy. We knead the dough 6 times during proving.

Then the bread can be shaped.
Leave the formed bread to stand for 3.5 - 4.5 hours. We bake bread in an oven preheated to 240 degrees. We put a bowl of water at the bottom.
A two-kilogram loaf is baked for about 1h10min.
Freshly baked bread should be allowed to stand for several hours.

Delicious flutes are also made from this dough.
For flutes (12 pieces), take 750 g of sourdough dough (I used the sourdough itself, I got it deliciously), 360 g of raisins and fried hazelnuts, 50 g of water and 1 g of salt.
We mix the whole thing, roll it into sausages, let it stand for 1.5 hours and bake in an oven preheated to 240 degrees, on the bottom - a bowl of water. Bake until pleasant golden brown - about 20-25 minutes.

Here is such a leaven. Dreary, but worth it - the bread is beyond praise!

And now about keeping my culture.
Yes, I preserve culture.
On Saturday - Sunday I bake bread, on Monday I remove the fed culture on the lower shelf of the refrigerator, on Friday evening I take it out, feed it a couple of times, on Saturday - bread
The culture lives wonderfully, raises the dough well, is very stable - sheer joy

[Lorana]

Lorana 🔗
What an interesting culture, how captivating and infectious you told about it: in detail, intelligibly! Thank you.
I am even embarrassed by the half norm, as you recommended ... How do you store such loaves, I realized that this bread is enough for you for a week? How is the quality at the end of the term?

[lana7386]

lana7386
Thank you!

Yes, productivity is great here.
I fight in two ways - either I take half - a quarter of the sourdough (usually half, for 2 loaves of 1 kg each), or I shove it into friends - acquaintances

Right now I am baking white bread with flaxseeds for myself and 4 sweet rolls: for myself, for my parents, and we’ll drag two off with my husband to work - let the people rejoice on Monday morning.

Bread does not get stale in a week, the only thing is that I noticed a couple of tiny dots of mold on one bread. At the store, the mold is in full swing in three days. I keep the loaves in a plastic bag on the table.

The leaven is actually very good, the main thing is to make up your mind!

In Wheat Bread, I stuck a topic with recipes.

[Lorana]

I got used to it, even akin to the French one (I have been growing it for the second season). According to the horoscope, I am Cancer, and therefore the transition to a new one is difficult for me, I like to walk on beaten paths
Lorana , I'll go look for your topic. See you at the Starter Club!

[Lorana]

Lorana , give a link, please, to your topic in Wheat Bread, I did not find something

Catch!
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=96304.0

Oh, something I do not write in this temme
raised, lives, bakes, already 3 weeks.

I didn’t grow any other starter cultures before, there’s nothing to compare with, but of course I reduced the quantity, feed it every day, bake it every other day.

Happy with the result !!!!!!!!

Today I made a pizza with this sourdough dough. I liked it very much.

[Lorana]

Lorana 🔗
How did you like the leaven The idea is confirmed that everyone finds their own leaven
Can you illustrate with photographs your messages? It is interesting not only to read, but also to see ... 🔗

On the second try I put this leaven. The first failed due to the fact that on the very first day "culture" (its embryonic state, so to speak) dried up. 100 g flour and 60 g water - is it essentially a bun?
The second time I put it thinner - like on thick pancakes (which is about 50-60 g of flour per 60 g of water), the process has shifted from zero - the culture is already the third day, it is bubbling, it smells specifically, it tastes sour. For two days I fed on the basis of the same calculation, now I added exactly 100 g of flour and 60 g of water, I'm waiting for the evening))
I have no scales - there is a measuring glass, where plus or minus, but somehow the weight converges with the prescription.
My question is: what does culture look like on its first day? What did I do wrong?

The first day sourdough is pretty dry, yes. It even looks like preparing dough for dumplings at the moment when you need to start kneading it with your hands.
After a couple of days, it begins to move towards the leaven.
I had a break with her - one of these days I'll put on a new one.
The first time, for several days, nothing really happened to me, the next time something started to live there quickly enough.
With pictures it is bad - at home I mostly sleep (in the evening and in the morning I shouldn't forget to have some sourdough, not to the pictures), but I will try.

Thank you for quick answer!
My leaven dried up, because the dishes were too wide for it - too much air, as I understand now.
In general, it turns out that my departure from technology in the first couple of days is a thinner basis. Now I equalize the flour-water ratio. I'll see what will eventually grow.
In the recipe for flutes, I understood correctly - in total, there is about the same amount of nuts and raisins by weight as the dough?

Small deviations in technology are not critical, the culture is quite stable.
Yes, in flutes somewhere in half dough and nuts with raisins.

mine is still alive and well since December to mine (I already forgot)

I strongly deviated from the technology later, not at first, but later, topping up the water by eye.

I made it thinner and thicker, it happened differently.

The bread is good

Lorana, I would like to clarify, did not quite understand, according to the sourdough recipe. On the second and subsequent days, take only 150 grams of sourdough, and throw away the rest (well, or bake what thread)? and add flour and water to these 150 grams?

I put the leaven and on the 3rd day tried to bake flutes from it, everything worked out quite well. Thanks for the recipe. I feed further

Yes, in each iteration, half of the sourdough must be discarded, and flour-salt-water must be added to the second half.

Thank you.

Lorana, another question I'm halfway to the 11th day)), but I'm already worried about the question, but how to store the leaven then, from baking to baking bread, every day I can't cope with such volumes. On Sunday she baked bread so that she would not throw away the leaven, although she was still 3 days old. The bread turned out quite well, I am attaching a photo. Although not uphill, but baked, porous, soft crust. The husband eats it up with pleasure. I bake in the oven about the bread maker just while I think

OOOO !!! I managed to insert pictures !!! Thanks Vicki!

Why can't my photo be inserted?

In the same way, I update every day, stupidly throwing away what is not needed.

Laurent, that is, for storage, you need to update it daily and feed twice a day?
Or, if stored in the refrigerator, then updating once every two days and feeding once a day?

I still have a question for connoisseurs: does anyone have a recipe for sweet bread (preferably with fillers - raisins, dried apricots, prunes, nuts, candied fruits - at least something) based on this sourdough? I'm not a magician, I'm just learning - I would be right in the proportions of what to put. And then "by eye" I have already translated so many products that my heart is still bleeding; crackers for kvass for the whole summer are now enough))

I, too, are all by sight). only watchdog helps me sometimes)

Maladets Watchdog. And I have no Barbos, and it’s a pity to throw away the leftovers. Today I brought it to work and distributed it to the people. And another 4 days before the end of the ripening of the culture. We'll have to bake pancakes

[marchek]

That's right - sausage leaven in the morning and in the evening
Basically, I sausage it once a day, a couple of days before baking, I tried to pay attention to it twice. Everything was fine

I don't really like sweets, I put baked goods on my eyes. The topic of bread based on this leaven should hang in wheat bread. There I called it Belgian sourdough for brevity.
marchek
How do you bake pancakes? I haven’t gotten “yeast” yet, especially with sourdough, very interesting

Well, my starter culture has "grown", my girl has matured. I already baked pancakes on it: wheat ones did not impress (taste-aroma like bread), I liked rye very much (I decided to bake them now). Yesterday I baked my first yeast-free white bread - it rose just fine (I haven't cut it yet, I can't say anything about the taste). Today I put rye sourdough on the same sourdough (again from that part of the sourdough that goes to "throw away" in the morning), now it is brewing in the oven. If the outcome is positive, I will report with the attachment of photos
The plans are to make dough from sourdough for whitewash pies.

If marchek is interested in the opinion about pancakes and other members of the branch, then my "rrrrrecept" rye is as follows: dilute the morning portion of what remains from the sourdough "for discard" with water at room temperature, add rye flour and stir to the consistency of batter for pancakes. Let stand for three hours - until capsized and bubbled. To speed up the process, you can add sugar right away (and the water is warmer), but I need the dough in the late afternoon (by the time mine arrives), so I don't activate the fermentation process. Then add a couple of eggs, sugar (if not added before), a tablespoon of rast. butter, a glass and a half of warm milk (I mix dry), salt (to taste) and even rye flour until the consistency of pancake dough. Let it come up for one and a half to two hours, check the consistency (add either liquid if necessary), and in principle it is already possible to bake. The dough should bubble by that time, have a sour smell and taste, pour thickly into the pan and spread easily over it. I bake pancakes with one hand, the baby hangs on the other, he takes over the experience
If you have the time and desire to be wiser, then you can first add the yolks from the eggs, and beat the whites into a foam and stir into the dough before baking.
Hope you like it

Lisevna, thanks about the pancakes. For the weekend and try to bake.

So, I'm reporting. The sourdough raises both wheat and rye flour with a bang. Rye, wheat and butter bread turned out to be excellent. The pastry was generally trying to crawl out of the bucket)) I baked sweet pastry according to this recipe from Kava:

In general, I am completely and completely satisfied with the leaven! I store it in the refrigerator, I feed it once a day.
Thank you Lorana!

Lorana, very interested in the sourdough (culture, as you call it))!
only I don't really understand, before baking, when they were fed,
should it expand before baking or not?
fed, and how long are we waiting, when is it possible to bake, what are we focusing on?
here you write that you fed twice on Friday, and bake on Saturday.
Last dressing on Friday night and baking on Saturday morning?
and what is the culture (leaven) by this time?
From French it is understandable, it should double, we hold no more than 8 hours.
and this leaven turns out to be very thick, almost a piece of dough.
and how to measure it 200 grams if I do not have scales? just know
how much flour and water is in it?

[Winter]

Winter
uh, here on the topic of feeding, I can only tell you what I am doing, because from the leaven I mastered only this one.
Now it lives with me like this: I feed it twice a day (this is when I throw out half and add flour-water-salt) in the morning and in the evening.
If I want to bake, I take almost all (310 grams - something like that) culture and make a sourdough from it - I add 300 grams of water, 500 grams of flour and a pinch of salt and wait 5 hours, and from this thing I already make dough, which you still need to ripen, form into a product and distance before baking.
Usually it rises well enough for me - it grows from a small lump to almost the entire pan.
By the way, the leaven that is fed for the next feeding also grows very well, and if it does not grow, I throw it out and put it on a new one. The second time, it ferments faster and you can bake from it for 3-4 days.
Something like that.

Lorana, Hello, maybe I’ll bore you with questions, you write that if it doesn’t grow, then put on a new one, today my leaven is almost three days old, it grows very slowly, I saw a couple of bubbles today, but it’s very thick, just like on dumplings, sales and I don't know if everything is so, I really want to grow her

Ira, it should be thick and on the third day, especially if you are doing it for the first time or after a long break, there will be only a couple of bubbles.
I had something more or less similar to sourdough, it turned out on the fifth or seventh day. You can put a little less flour next time, but so that the leaven is not liquid. Do everything as apisano and wait, everything will work out

Thank you, I wait, I feed, I love and cherish)

And so, I report, the sourdough is excellent delicious bread, I baked on flour of the 1st grade, put the already formed bread for proofing at night, it rose very well, thanks Laurent, you for the sourdough
I barely managed to take a picture, they started cutting while still warm

Hello ! Can you please tell me what kind of flour you need to take for sourdough, rye or wheat?