Kalvel's sourdough and bread made with it

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, don't you use yeast at all? I, too, have been thinking about bread leaven for a long time. I tried to make MK from Admin. But ... alas. She didn’t work for me.

In the sense for the bread in the photo? No, I do not use it, none - neither dry nor fresh. In this thread, all the breads already shown are only pure sourdough (and bakery ones too), without yeast added ...

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, thanks for the good description of how to make the leaven, how to feed, and recipes for it. Accurate, clear and understandable

I made this starter on the weekend, in the end I brought it completely to wheat (for rye, I have whole grain rye on pineapple juice)

I found a shelf with 12-11 degrees in the refrigerator and put it in storage.

I didn't throw out the last leftovers, it was a pity, because the sourdough was already working practically and raised the dough 4 times, well, I made pancakes from these leftovers for a whole platoon, pizzas, a very delicate structure was obtained and absolutely without yeast.

By the way, in the first two days I did not like the smell at all, not sour, but some kind of rotten.
I really thought that I did not give enough air access on the first day (covered it with a towel rolled up in a bunch of layers) and she went wrong to develop, I thought even if it worked, but with such a nasty smell, I would spit on her. But no, on the third day she corrected herself, and she got a very good smell

I am very pleased with your success, because there are not so many of us "calvelers". And the leaven is worthy of attention, as it is very strong. I played it twice and twice it worked its best.

As for the smell - I don’t remember anything that "rotten" .. Maybe people have different perceptions: some people think the smell is unpleasant, others have nothing special. I remember the smell of mash at all stages.

I am very pleased with your success, because there are not so many of us "calvelers"

I didn’t know, I thought the people were joking around with this leaven.

As for the smell - I don’t remember anything that "rotten" .. Maybe people have different perceptions: some people think the smell is unpleasant, others have nothing special. At all stages I remember the smell of mash, delicious sour dough.

I can very subtly distinguish by smells, I will close my eyes, I will be guided by the smell.
Mash is mash, just on the third day the long-awaited smell of mash appeared, the smell of delicious sour dough

After your answer, I'm almost sure that all the same she suffocated me a little at the very beginning and how sensible the leaven is, that it could turn into normal at such an early stage

I read for the raisin sourdough, so they ate there it went wrong at first - it is generally covered with mold

[Rustic Calvel's Sourdough Cakes]

Rustic Calvel's Sourdough Cakes

This is a recipe from the instructions for Panasonic HP 255 (in the "Dough" section). There it is yeast, but I changed it into sourdough. Left in the ingredients 0.5 tsp. yeast. Basically - for the stability of the result. Since the leaven will do its job anyway. If you want, dry yeast can be removed from the recipe altogether, eliminating sugar at the same time. You just need to put all the ingredients in the HP and set the "Rye" program and the "dough" mode. Those who do not have such a regime simply use the dough program.



Calvel's sourdough - 240g
dry yeast - 0.5g
rye flour - 390g
salt - 1.5 tsp l.
sugar - 0.5 tbsp. l.
vegetable oil -1 tbsp. l.
minced garlic (or cumin) - 1 tbsp. l.
water - 310ml
kvass wort - 1.5 tsp

The sculpting of the cakes themselves is very simple. From the total volume of the dough, I get 6 cakes.I formed balls from pieces of them, flattened them, rolled them a little with a rolling pin to a thickness of 1 cm, and straightened them. Perfectly round workpieces are obtained. The dough lends itself perfectly to forming from the edges (ends). It is necessary to powder it well with flour - the dough is viscous, sticky, which is natural with such an amount of rye flour. I made notches with a curly roller knife for cookies. These notches played a double role - they gave the cakes some glamor and served as a guide for breaking the dough during baking. If the dough rose critically, then it was torn not chaotically, but according to the pattern. This can be seen in the photo. Gave it to distance for 20 minutes, greased with water and baked at 230 degrees with steam for 12 minutes.

And here's another photo: again French with sourdough from HP. I trained on spicy bread and the oven was busy, so white was made in a bread machine. I have already given the recipe on the first page of this topic.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, I also grew this leaven and made bread on it. But I put on a timer for the night. The result is a very tasty bread, but very small. I have a rye of this size. Even when I took it out in the morning, I was scared that there was just a piece of dough inside and it was impossible to eat it ... but it turned out to be tasty, though it really felt that there was not enough time to get up and the crust turned out to be thick and dark.
I think that all the same I will have to pull out the scapula, apparently he does not have enough time to get up a second time.

the truth is, when I made the leaven, I cheated. Well, my hand does not rise to throw away the product. Now I have a wonderful "eternal" leaven, and the bread on it turns out delicious, but only rye, as there is sourness. I'm looking for a sourdough just for wheat, without sourness. Well, I missed the first process, I decided to start just feeding mine with Calvel's recipe. I took my 30 grams and then fed it up to 380 grams according to the scheme. Only it seemed to me that, after all, on wheat flour, the leaven is less active, or maybe because before that I was not so thick, and the raising process was more clearly visible.
The bread turned out to be really delicious, without sourness. So now I will adapt the recipe for my sourdough. And maybe the second time she will be stronger.

By the way, you have described an interesting observation. The thing is, this is my second (or third?) Calvel's leaven. The first (it was on it that breads were baked, the photos of which are on the first page) raised the bread with a bang, even with a crush. The second is weaker (a photo of bread on it in my penultimate post) and lower bread. Therefore, it is best to remove the spatula if your starter culture does not manage to raise much in a short time.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, I baked another bread with this sourdough, took out the scoop 3.30 before the end of the program. But the bread rose even less, the roof cracked all over, I would even say it broke, and for some reason it was light. Last time, on the contrary, it was very fried.
And it also sour, with sweet jam, nothing else, but just sourness is felt. But this time, the leaven smelled sour in the beginning. Does that mean it has deteriorated and you need to start a new one?
True, I work and therefore fed her with an interval of 10-12 hours at t-22-24.
Or have I broken the process somewhere and can still be corrected?
She put the remaining 50 grams of baking in a jar and put it in the refrigerator on a shelf with medicines. But I don't know exactly where t is, since there is no thermometer, and all hands will not reach it.
Last time she stood there for a day before feeding and smelled sour when opened. Even more acidic than my MK starter.
And for some reason it rises less and more slowly than MK.
MK without tremors raises rye 2 times maximum in 1.30 hours, and on Kalvel it increases 2 times in 8-10 hours. Moreover, the longer I feed with wheat flour, the slower it rises. I already fed her with honey, but it helps only for 1 cycle until the next feeding. Maybe she doesn't like flour? here you can find only the highest grade, but bakery. Sometimes I come across general-purpose flour, but I never found out what grade it belongs to.
Tell me, what should I do with her now? to throw out and start again? Or can I fix it? the question is how?
I really hope for advice

The fact that the roof is cracked and the bread is sour indicates that the sourdough has been overexposed. Fermented. Do not throw it away, it is not fatal. It needs to be grinded. Feed a small portion for several cycles, bring it to the peak of fermentation, wait until it almost begins to fall and feed again.

Peroxidized starter culture is also clearly visible in structure. It is practically not bubbling, as if liquid, of a homogeneous structure, stretches from a spoon. It is tainted with flour gluten. Klekovina starches are destroyed by acids. When the leaven is young and active, it behaves very aggressively and freely picks up the bread three times in a couple of hours (when I put it on the proofer). The last time before baking, you need to feed eight hours (at room temperature). I do this before leaving for work. She is in just the right condition for my arrival.
The starter culture must not be stored in the refrigerator! The storage temperature of the starter culture should not be lower than 10-12 degrees. Otherwise, a number of yeast colonies will die and the bread baked on it will no longer have such a richness of taste. There is no such zone in any refrigerator.

Peroxidized starter culture is also clearly visible in structure. It is practically not bubbling, as if liquid, of a homogeneous structure, stretches from a spoon. It is tainted with flour gluten. Klekovina starches are destroyed by acids. When the leaven is young and active, it behaves very aggressively and freely picks up the bread three times in a couple of hours (when I put it on the proofer). The last time before baking, you need to feed eight hours (at room temperature). I do this before leaving for work. She is in just the right condition for my arrival.

So I had it rubber almost from the very beginning, I thought this property was exactly the sourdough on wheat flour. And I never seem to have succeeded with a peak. On the MK, the peak is clearly visible, the dough begins to fall through, but here I have never seen this. What does this peak look like?
So now I need to take literally a teaspoon of sourdough and feed the cycle 4-5? each time waiting for the peak of fermentation? And if I have already put it in the refrigerator? to throw everything away? or can you still use it?

The peak is clearly visible. Begins to fail.

Yes, take 20 grams of starter culture and feed 4-5 cycles to peak. Remove from the refrigerator and warm. Recently, everything should be OK.

That's all, ales kaput!
she died
I took a teaspoon, added 125 grams of flour and 125 grams of water (as I found about softening with French sourdoughs). She doubled in 12 hours, reached the peak, but smelled sour. I poured everything into pancakes, left only a teaspoon and once again added 125 grams of flour and 125 grams of water. as a result, after 10 hours she almost did not rise, gave only a couple of bubbles and began to exfoliate. I decided not to torture her anymore and transferred her to the "other world".
But the tasty wheat bread with sourdough is very hot, so I decided to experiment more: I took my favorite MK-eternal leaven (fortunately, it raises strong rye bread for 1.30 hours) 1 tsp, added 125g wheat flour and 125g water ...
as a result, it grew less than 2 times on wheat flour by the morning, reached its peak and smells like sour.
Looks like we have something wrong with wheat flour (I take a local manufacturer), maybe they add something to the flour that the starter culture does not want to grow on it
Probably not to see me a delicious sourdough wheat bread
I will bake with trembling, and I will have to leave the leaven for the rye.

Firstly, the ratio of water to flour in the kalvel sourdough is different! Flour is not equal to water. For 1 g of flour 0.6 g of water. Secondly, I don't take so much flour and water per teaspoon. Flour only in equal amounts of leaven.

I don't know what my leaven is called now, but I really like it. Once it was a wheat flour MK.Then I transferred it to water and a mixture of rye and wheat, occasionally I change the water to lactic acid products. It turns out great both rye and wheat bread

Firstly, the ratio of water to flour in the kalvel sourdough is different! Flour is not equal to water. For 1 g of flour 0.6 g of water. Secondly, I don't take so much flour and water per teaspoon. Flour only in equal amounts of leaven.

I guess I misunderstood the recommendation to grind, the only place where I found it in French sourdough. so I did as advised ... it means I was wrong ...
I'll try to grow it one more time, just buy flour from another manufacturer, maybe all the troubles are due to flour.

I don't know what my leaven is called now, but I really like it. Once it was a wheat flour MK. Then I transferred it to water and a mixture of rye and wheat, occasionally I change the water to lactic acid products. It turns out great both rye and wheat bread

on my "MK-Eternal" sourdough bread also turns out well, but the ambush is that you want pure white, but on rye sourdough it turns out gray and sour. What's good about rye doesn't suit me in wheat. Therefore, I try to grow sourdough only on wheat flour and get away from sourness in bread. But apparently because of the "poverty" of flour it is more capricious. With my "eternal" there was no such problem, she raised bread very well the first time without any yeast, despite her youth. I thought it would be here too. but no, it didn't work out.
I will look further, others succeed, so I will succeed.

[Pirogok]

Pirogok

Nothing ... Everything will be well with the new leaven. She's not so scary as she is painted ...

Thinning is a general term. This is to feed for several cycles, waiting for the peak of fermentation and not allowing it to pervert. And you need to feed it the way you feed this particular sourdough. I thought it was understandable, but it was necessary in more detail ... Eh ..

Also, don't take that much feed. Feed in the same algorithm as always:
20 grams of starter culture (take a small amount) + 20 grams of flour + 12 grams of water (ml is not important, grams and ml of water are equal).

Congratulate me - I ditched the leaven, forgetting it on the windowsill. it is over-acidified and moldy. To bring "this" to life, I no longer raised my hand, so I threw it away and almost made a new one.

I have already had experience in growing Kalvel's starter culture - 4 times. Who is bigger?

Scarecrow, good day!
From all that I read, it remained incomprehensible to me: how to further store and feed this leaven? If I need to bake bread 2 times a week and not throw away the excess? I am stopped in French sourdoughs by this process of throwing away (at the stage of growing, everything is clear, but in the process of further use) ...

Scarecrow, good morning! I read the whole topic, and I understood -my leaven should be thrown out. Although thick, it works well in the refrigerator. I didn’t feed her for a week (I just cheated). Now throw it away .... What a pity.

Scarecrow, good morning! I read the whole topic, and I understood -my leaven should be thrown out. Although thick, it works well in the refrigerator. I didn’t feed her for a week (I just cheated). Now throw it away .... What a pity.

Where did such sorrowful thoughts come from? Although, even if you came to this decision - it's not scary! I grew mine five times, because from time to time I sentenced with my own hands ...

Scarecrow, the hand did not rise to throw out the Frenchwoman. I added it to bread. I baked it. The bread came out with a thin crust, she almost diminished the floor of the loaf. With difficulty she stopped herself.
Scarecrow, how do you work with thick leaven? And I wonder what is the difference in the composition of liquid and thick starter cultures.
Photo of my bread

I work with thick in the same way. In the compositions of these starter cultures, there is a different ratio of flour and water (in liquid 50 to 50, and in thick 38% water and 62% flour), different microbiological composition (the ratio of ABM, wild yeast species - this is what each leaven is unique for), since they grow in different ways.However, in finished products, you will not feel much of a taste difference.
And the bread is good! It's true that the mass is hard to see, but in my opinion everything is in order with him.

Scarecrow, does your leaven grow on premium wheat flour?
And you can ask another question: how does this leaven have a "peak"? She can go up first twice, then three times, then it freezes, but it doesn't go down well. In MK leaven, this stage is clearly visible, but here I can’t understand anything ...

Yes, on premium wheat flour.

The peak comes in the same way as with the other leaven. Rises - then sags a little. It turns out not a dome, but a small sag on the surface (especially visible along the edge of the dish, where the "mark" about the highest level remains). Right to go down / "deflate" - does not go down.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on it

[Scarecrow]

Here Lyudmila gives a detailed description of the sourdough making.
🔗

Scarecrow, or I cannot find, or not this topic. It's strange, I used to go to Lyudmilina's page and there was the subject of Sourdough.
Maybe I'm not looking there?

I posted it here, in the same topic in its entirety, with the Lyudmilins' photos, since it has not been opened for Lyudmila herself for a long time.

Here is:

Calvel's sourdough

Hello! I have a question, you have already been asked it above, but I have not found the answer. How to store the leaven when it's ready. I bake bread 2 times a week. If not stored in the refrigerator, then where?

Anywhere in the house where the temperature is at least 10-12 degrees: on the floor, in the vestibule between the doors. In general, look for a cooler place, otherwise you will be tortured to feed her. In the cold season, I did it on a windowsill (not sunny! Northern). It is much cooler there with glass and curtains that cut off the warm air and are comfortable.

Thanks for the quick response! And then I still have a question. If I bake once every three days. Should I not touch her for 2 days, but feed her in 12 hours? Or how?

Thanks for the quick response! And then I still have a question. If I bake once every three days. Should I not touch her for 2 days, but feed her in 12 hours? Or how?

Yes, that's right, that's right. You just need to take into account that in order not to touch it for two days, the storage temperature should be low. That is, they took it for baking, fed the rest, kept it for about 1 hour at room temperature and kept in the cold for storage (remember the rule: ferment for 1 hour after feeding - keep in the cold for 3 days; fermented for 3 hours at room temperature - 1 day keep cold. Easy to remember.). When you want to bake, they took it out, warmed it a little (they just let it stand in a warm place, fed it and after about 8 hours you can bake it.

Thank you very much! Your topic is the most clear and understandable. Before that I had rye sourdough, kept in the refrigerator. 4 normal breads turned out, and then the baked bread went and did not rise well. Now I ran to do yours.

Thank you very much! Your topic is the most clear and understandable. Before that I had rye sourdough, kept in the refrigerator. 4 normal breads turned out, and then the baked bread went and did not rise well. Now I ran to do yours.

I hope everything works out. Any leaven is alive. Therefore, even one made according to the same recipe may differ. You will never guess which types of wild yeast will be able to "catch", which will prevail, what tandem they form with the ICD. I cooked this sourdough about 5 times. The penultimate time was the weakest. She worked slower and lifted the dough by 2-2.5 times. Whereas the strongest is 3.5-4 times in about 2-3 hours. I just redid it. So do not be discouraged or afraid. The only thing - it's a pity to "throw away" so much flour during alterations.

The main thing is the result!

Hello Schochelka! I tried to grow two sourdoughs (MK from Admin and hop # 1) - both were safely sent to the trash can. : (But the desire to bake with sourdough does not leave me. So today I put the sourdough according to your recipe. I really hope that this experience of mine will be successful.

Try making a grape or raisin starter. Of all the starter cultures, it is the most unpretentious and uncomfortable. For a novice baker, this is

Thanks a lot for the advice! I will put in the raisin leaven at the same time. I went to read the topic.

<b> Scarecrow </b>, hello.
Cool topic, thank you. I made this bread last night, today there is only a small piece. I am very glad that the bread is without yeast. However, I do taste a sour taste.
I have grape leaven.
For the preparation of 340 g of steep sourdough, I used my 120 g of 100% sourdough, to which I added flour and water in the right proportion.

And recently I found information that you need to take 10-20% of the main sourdough for the total amount of flour in the sourdough (the one of which is 340g, can I say something indistinct?)
In general, today I did it differently. For 210 g of flour (this is 62% of 340 g) I took 40 g of my sourdough. Let's see what happens.

How do you (you) act to prepare the required quantity of leaven?

And yet, before putting it in the HP, I decided to mix the dough and sourdough ... because in Panasonic it first stands for 2.5 hours. I thought that if it is already standing, then at least let the leaven raise the dough.
But now I think, maybe it was not necessary? Maybe my dough has stopped?

Galatea, while there is no Chuchelka I will tell you that 340g of steep sourdough is cool, that is, too much, in my opinion. Therefore, your bread tastes sour. The amount of bacterial MC is too large and while the dough is standing in the bread maker, the amount of acid builds up.
I bake on grape, the flour-water ratio is 1: 1, i.e. 100% hydration. If you have any questions, go to the relevant topic.

I fed my starter culture for the fourth time (after the third feeding, it increased by a maximum of 1.5 rubles). I fed it again according to the scheme - 300g. starter cultures-300g. flour-180g. water. A viscous mass that sticks terribly to your hands. During kneading, the thought came to knead it with a mixer, but did not dare (suddenly she loves the warmth of her hands). Nobody kneaded with a mixer? And one more question:
I correctly understood that such proportions in feedings must be adhered to until it begins to increase in size up to 4 times, that is, it does not get stronger completely? In the evening I will try to write about her behavior.

Unfortunately, it should be noted that I also failed with this leaven - I fed it five times, it increases slightly in size (by 0.5 cm), stretches very much. I'll probably throw it out. Well, yeast is not given to me

On Friday, I didn't throw it out due to lack of time. I come home in the evening - and she thought to grow - it almost doubled in size. I didn’t touch her - in the morning she was still grown up, she didn’t feed her, she almost ran away from me as a verer. I fed her, this morning she has grown three times. I decided to put bread on it according to the Schochelka recipe from page 1. I kneaded it in HP, you could say there was no kolobok, I added flour, then I was afraid to overdo it. I guess I hurried to bake on it, for sure it is not strong enough yet. Maybe add some yeast before it's too late?

Add 0.5 h. l. yeast and check the proofing of the dough.
There will be no kolobok - the roof of bread will fail if you bake in a bread maker.

I pulled my first sourdough bread out of the oven. He got up well. Baked in a greased glass microwave saucepan - stuck. The entire bottom crust remained in shape. The taste of the bread is strikingly different from that of yeast-based CP bread. I will try further experiments.

I pulled my first sourdough bread out of the oven. He got up well. Baked in a greased glass microwave saucepan - stuck. The entire bottom crust remained in shape. The taste of the bread is strikingly different from that of yeast-based CP bread. I will try further experiments.

Glass. I grease the pan with soft margarine and crush it with flour, the bread never sticks.

Search the forum for "non-stick grease", I don't remember exactly the proportions: rast. butter, pork or other solid fat and flour, will give you perfect bread pop.

And I always grease the glass form with vegetable oil, nothing never sticks. Once stuck when not far enough away.

non-stick lubricant - everything is taken in the same proportions (flour, vegetable oil and fat)
ghee can be used instead of fat
and you need to beat everything well

I will add: in equal proportions by volume. I mix half a glass of flour, solid fat and vegetable oil and beat well with a mixer. Enough for a long time. You can store it in the refrigerator or without.