Kalvel's sourdough and bread made with it

[T @ tyank @]

T @ tyank @

It is probably necessary to start a diary of the life of the leaven and record all its movements ...

A very sensible idea! Good luck in your observation!

I don't like the smell - I don't like (((((((((
Most likely, I rushed in time and thereby undermined it completely ...
I think to put a new one and no longer force events, but observe ...

Could it be the flour? Try changing your flour and starting over. It will definitely work out!

BlackHairedGirl
Just today I bought some non-premium flour, tomorrow morning I'll put it on.
Tell me, please, and if the prefix (well, those that are in 5-7 hours) falls on a deep night, what to do? Set an alarm or endure until the morning?

BlackHairedGirl
Just today I bought some non-premium flour, tomorrow morning I'll put it on.
Tell me, please, and if the prefix (well, those that are in 5-7 hours) falls on a deep night, what to do? Set an alarm or endure until the morning?

Suffers. The main thing is, if it falls at night, do not put it in a very warm place. And in this case, in general, in my opinion, it is better to overexpose a little than to underexpose.

Scarecrow
Thank you.
And then I'm already quite afraid of everything
That is the necessary temperature of a claim with a thermometer (like a father with a candle0 measured the entire kitchen ... I would really set an alarm clock ... Oh, I really am something

I would like to try to grow a sourdough, but before me, as before the giraffes, it means this: the first stage is mixed, left for 22 hours; then I took away from the total + everything (can I do without salt and malt?), left for 7 hours; and so that's it stages, and now I have a stupor in my understanding ... or should I bake or store no more than 3 days and what, then throw it away? and if, for example, there is no time, well, or I could not bake, throw away .... for example, the leaven is already ready, I baked it taking a part, fed the rest and fed it into the refrigerator, and forgot .. I remembered a week later, throw it away? or how to support her this week, for example, or not? (I apologize for the stupid questions)

Something came to me, do I think correctly: for 3 days it can be stored in a refrigerator WITHOUT FEEDING, and then it is necessary to take from the total amount, for example, 300gr. starter cultures + 300g. flour + 180gr. water, stir, leave for 1 hour and in the cold. for 3 days, then feed again in the same way after 3 days? the remainder or throw away (if nothing is done or the oven?). then from the refrigerator how to use it in baking, feed it, let it rise, how much?

Something came to me, do I think correctly: for 3 days it can be stored in a refrigerator WITHOUT FEEDING, and then it is necessary to take from the total amount, for example, 300gr. starter cultures + 300g. flour + 180gr. water, stir, leave for 1 hour and in the cold. for 3 days, then feed again in the same way after 3 days? the remainder or throw away (if nothing is done or the oven?). then from the refrigerator how to use it in baking, feed it, let it rise, how much?

Yes, almost everything is true. Store for 3 days without feeding. If you don't bake during this period, feed and store further. And so empty feed every 3 days until you are going to bake something. The remainder (unused when feeding is thrown away (or goes to pancakes, for example).

One BUT. When the sourdough is completely ready (you went through all the stages and grew it), when feeding, it is not necessary to take 300 g of sourdough, 300 g of flour and 180 g of water. It is imperative to observe these volumes at the stage of cultivation (it takes a long time to explain, but you need to achieve a certain amount of bacteria per gram and this happens no less than in certain volumes, etc.). Then you can operate with much smaller volumes, for example: 50 g of sourdough, 50 g. flour and 30g of water, so as not to waste a wild amount of flour.

Thank you! here and this BUT also wanted to know. now if I have selected 50g. starter cultures + 50g. flour + 30g. water, and if I need more leaven, how much should I add? 100g. starter cultures + 100g. flour + 60g. water? count so?

Thank you! here and this BUT also wanted to know. now if I have selected 50g. starter cultures + 50g. flour + 30g. water, and if I need more leaven, how much should I add? 100g. starter cultures + 100g. flour + 60g. water? count so?

Yes, everyone counted correctly. How much leaven is needed - take as much for feeding. A strict rule: 300 +300 +180 is observed only during manufacture. The only advice - don't go below 20 grams.

: rose: that's it, I'm looking for some leaven. and another question: feed any flour? or take in half rye and wheat? or is it possible only wheat?

: rose: that's it, I'm looking for some leaven. and another question: feed any flour? or take in half rye and wheat? or is it possible only wheat?

Why halve? Either wheat or rye.

That's why I'm asking, I'll feed the wheat, and if she's too lazy to feed her a little honey and a little rye, right?

That's why I'm asking, I'll feed the wheat, and if she's too lazy to feed her a little honey and a little rye, right?

Yes, sometimes a little honey as vitamins and rye flour to replenish the bacterial colony.

So I did it yesterday, it turned out to be a pretty hard lump of dough, is that right? now I look at it a little, just a little blurred, I will soon feed.

[Natalia]

Natalia, why do you need so much starter culture? You already seem to have grown thick, but in my opinion it is the same thing. Or I'm wrong?

Yes, I tried it, but I threw it all away, I liked the smell, it smelled too much of vinegar, I was afraid to bake on it, I tried to feed it, so nothing happened at all and it looked not very, sticky, incomprehensible mass. so I try everything.

I did everything exactly according to the recipe and in time, and the leaven grew remarkably and developed until the third feeding: after I fed 300g for the third time. sourdough and removed for 17 hours in a room with 15 * C, it did not grow at all. Even after the 4th feed, when I fed 30 + 30 + 18, this little piece did not fit in 7 hours at 25 * C.
Now I have fed 30g for the 5th time. leaven and put in a warm place + 25 * С for the next 7 hours. I haven't thrown away the main part yet - it still stands at + 15 * C under a damp towel.

Help with advice, if after the 5th feeding it does not grow, what to do with it? Add rye flour again? Honey or malt?

Thank you in advance!

Do not observe clearly the time intervals, monitor the state of the leaven. This is a living substance, the concentration of microorganisms can be different for different manufacturers of the starter culture, so even a strict calculation of the time does not give a guarantee.

Only I do not remember where there is 15 degrees in the manufacturing process. Maybe I forgot a little, to be honest.

Only I do not remember where there is 15 degrees in the manufacturing process. Maybe I forgot a little, to be honest.

Here is a text from Lyudmila's original recipe:
"3) So, 5-7 hours have passed. It's time to feed the sourdough. Throw half in the trash and mix the other half with flour and water. Add no more malt or salt. 300g old sourdough, 300g wheat flour, 180g water. Knead and leave by 17 hours at cool room temperature (around 15C) or 7 hours at very warm room temperature (28C). By the end of this period, the leaven will almost quadruple in volume. "

Oh, I remembered. To be honest, I don't always have such an increase at 25-27 degrees in 7 hours at the manufacturing stage. So only the already fully "ripe" leaven rages. I think I still need to wait.

Oh, I remembered. To be honest, I don't always have such an increase at 25-27 degrees in 7 hours at the manufacturing stage. So only the already fully "ripe" leaven rages. I think I still need to wait.

Then I will continue the torture with oranges))

Thanks for the advice!

Natasha, thank you for the wonderful starter culture !!! Honestly, I tried to do others before her and somehow it didn't go well. And this one is so wonderful. I love her. I always felt sorry for the remnants of what thread to throw away and throw away the excess, I wanted to attach all the time. Yesterday and today I baked rolls of Cherkizovskie MISHINS - very, very, I'll tell you)))
And, by the way, apparently this is my starter culture, because we became very good friends with her, she always behaves remarkably, I'm not really overjoyed! And already I feed her on a whim, without scales. Here is the truth, the leaven is a living substance And this leaven, well, such a pleasant girl in communication
Natasha! Thank you again!

And the 5th and 6th feeding did not change anything: there is a slight fermentation, but the leaven hardly rises, only it becomes slimy and viscous inside. On the 6th feeding, I added a little honey and peeled rye flour, but nothing changed dramatically. Now I fed 30g of sourdough culture, 100g of flour and 60g of water and 25 * C. If this one does not grow, you will have to throw it away and try another ...

Any ideas what could be the reason for this behavior of the sourdough? ..

I would be grateful for your advice.

And the 5th and 6th feeding did not change anything: there is a slight fermentation, but the leaven hardly rises, only it becomes slimy and viscous inside. On the 6th feeding, I added a little honey and peeled rye flour, but nothing changed dramatically. Now I fed 30g of sourdough, 100g of flour and 60g of water and 25 * C. If this one does not grow, you will have to throw it away and try another ...

Any ideas what could be the reason for this behavior of the leaven? ..

I would be grateful for your advice.

Throw it away. Nothing will work. This behavior of the leaven is related to its composition. It is never possible to predict which colonies of bacteria will be able to "catch", how favorable a tandem they form with lactic acid bacteria. This is not nonsense. Several times my leavens went into the bucket too. When manufacturing, I mean, that is, exactly the same as yours. And several times it turned out just thermonuclear. So try again. Everything will work out. And don't use a low temperature stage. Use a high temperature circuit.

[Irina F]

Irina F

I totally agree. I'm in love with her too. Although, due to the non-standard ratio of flour and water for it, it is more difficult to recount recipes.

Throw it away. Nothing will work.

I threw it out after the 7th.

What is the most tenacious leaven at home, in your opinion?

Threw it out after the 7th.

What is the most tenacious leaven at home, in your opinion?

Absolutely any. I did species 5. The main thing is that it is good immediately after production (that is, it turns out to be strong) and to observe more or less the feeding regime. Because it's not about the leaven, but about caring for it. She dies only because of peroxidation, temperature, etc. That is, oversight.

the link to the live journal does not open, the journal is deleted, where can I read the recipe for making the sourdough itself?

Thanks, I already found the text on the third page in the topic, but you can't put a translation of an article with a recipe on the first post? it would be a hundred times more convenient, otherwise it’s not clear at first - where to look?

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, thank you very much!!! So I grew the leaven according to this recipe. I thought I would have to throw it away, since by the due date she did not show strong activity, but after reading the Temka she decided to wait and continued to feed. Violent activity appeared five days later, I baked bread on it twice already - excellent !!! Now I am just suffering how to store it. At home, in a warm place, she asks me three times a day, in the refrigerator +5, on the balcony no more. I have nowhere to take + 12
And I also have a question - can you bake rye bread on it, or should you start a rye sourdough? I'm trying to overfeed this one in rye - the second day has already gone, it swells slightly and that's it, there is no such reactivity as on wheat flour.

[Krasnoyarochka]

Krasnoyarochka,

Spit +12 and refrigerate. Nothing fatal will happen.
Wheat flour is added to almost all rye bread, so I never overfed the sourdough, but used wheat flour, counting the wheat flour according to the recipe, taking into account the one already in the sourdough.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, thanks for the answer and for a bunch of useful information on baking bread, as an inexperienced novice in baking, I am now interested in all the details of what and how to do it. And to spit on + 12 somehow the hand does not rise until the necessary bacteria will die, did I understand correctly?

[Krasnoyarochka]

Krasnoyarochka,

This is a broad and specific question)). Not needed ones will die, but some of the species and the ratio of different species will change. BUT. There are starter cultures that are specially placed in the refrigerator to achieve the desired "coalition" of bacteria and yeast. You will not track this in a change in taste, but looking for a place with a stable temperature of +12 is tortured and often you are also tortured to feed it. At one time I kept it in a wine refrigerator, then I got tired of it and kept it in a regular one))).

[Krasnoyarochka]

I have grown this leaven! Hurrah!!!!!! We are 5th day and today is the first test! French bread. First grade flour, on which the sourdough itself is grown.


One thing upset me - because the dough is thin, I put it in a cup with a cotton towel for proofing, and the towel stuck! And I spoiled the roof of the bread when I "tore off" the workpiece from the fabric .....

Krasnoyarochka,

This is a broad and specific question)). Not needed ones will die, but some of the species and the ratio of different species will change. BUT. There are starter cultures that are specially placed in the refrigerator to achieve the desired "coalition" of bacteria and yeast. You will not track this in a change in taste, but looking for a place with a stable temperature of +12 is tortured and often you are also tortured to feed it. At one time I kept it in a wine refrigerator, then I got tired of it and kept it in a regular one))).

I have h-k Ariston, on the top shelf exactly 12 degrees .... Probably there I will keep my beauties!

[salomeya29]

salomeya29,

Who out there thought converge?))) I have today is also the last day of rearing and ready chernyashka is on the table, getting cold!))

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, photo in the studio, please!
Natul, can you tell me why my Frenchman stuck? I just defrosted the usual consistency in a cast iron pot, but this time the dough is different, liquid ...

In:



I'll cut it tomorrow.
You followed the recipe, but the dough is thin? The flour is different. If the moisture content of the flour is different, the dough will be drier or more moist. Flour changes moisture even during storage. That is, from the same bag at different times you can get different breads. No wonder there is almost never water in industrial Soviet recipes! Its amount was determined by technologists depending on the moisture content of the flour. Only the final moisture content of the product was indicated.

You just had to add a little flour to the usual consistency of bread. Do not stick to the recipe very strictly, trust your experience and hands.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, cool bread!
It seems that in this recipe this should be the dough ... Although they added instead of 700 grams to the main batch. flour - 600 gr. flour for 500 grams of water (well, this is without dough). Big run, huh? It took me 650-660 grams ... But in the photo (MK according to which I did it) it is clear that the dough is liquid ... Well, okay. But in general, there are recipes where the dough is not thick, how to distribute it?
I like big holes ... It didn't work out in any way, and now it is closer to my "ideal" ...

[salomeya29]

salomeya29,

The classic "liquid" dough - chabatta. Before proofing, such a dough must be folded in an envelope several times. Gently, do not tear, but pull. It strengthens, stretches the surface and holds it better.

The classic "liquid" dough - chabatta.Before proofing, such a dough must be folded in an envelope several times. Gently, do not tear, but pull. It strengthens, stretches the surface and holds it better.

Yes, Nat! That's exactly what I did! But you need to gain experience .... But tell me please, do I understand correctly that the quality of molding depends on the number of folds?

I didn't quite understand the question. Does the number of folds affect the shape (how the loaf holds its shape)? Yes. affects. That is why we fold - so that the surface of the dough is stretched and held by this tension. But, of course, you need to know when to stop. I usually do 3-4. Then I can still fold it neatly 1 time after cutting into loaves.

Yes, that's exactly what I asked. Thank you!

[Nata]

NataAnd I grow leaven, Only I made it in half a dose. Well, I can't throw the dough into the basket, and even more so in such quantities! Like Plyushkin, after the first step, I stuffed the dough into gingerbread cookies with burnt sugar. I put the dough 2,3,4 steps in the refrigerator, and yesterday I conjured it up: I added a little bit of yeast, a little bit of soul, and voila! Delicious bread!



He would be even taller if some sorceresses did not cut him with a knife with their gnarled handles!

[Nikusya]

Nikusya,

What a handsome man, however))).

[Nata]

Nata, , Thank you. Your praise is very gratifying! I bake bread for only a year and this is my first bread that I collected 100% on a whim. Now I will master the leaven, my love did not work out with liquid ones.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, how to store Calvel's leaven if bread is not baked every day? Tell me please!

[Nata]

Nata, I studied Temka and join the next question ... You write what to store in a cool place but not in the refrigerator, but on the threshold of summer and there will be no cool places in the apartment, and here's how to store this leaven in the summer?

Girls, keep your head down and refrigerate. I have a wine refrigerator, there is a basement where the temperature is appropriate at any time of the year, but I live in a private house. People cannot afford such luxury in apartments. You will be exhausted to jump with this leaven, because it will peroxide at the speed of light.

Therefore, put it in the refrigerator and nothing really terrible will happen to her. the microbiological composition will change slightly, which you will not notice very much on the taste.

[Nata]

NataThank you for comfort! then you can safely start growing!

[Scarecrow]

I also brought out this leaven again (probably for the fourth). I have been baking sourdough bread for many years, at first I brought out 100% of it two or three times a year, but now this thick one, last times I kept it 50%, solely for the convenience of calculations - in the finished sourdough - 1/3 water and 2/3 flour. Now I will contain 60%, it contains 3/8 water and 5/8 flour. This time the leaven took a very long time. Last Saturday at 23 I put the first dough (all according to the feeding scheme, like Scarecrow described: the weight of the flour mixture is 600g + 360g of water + 3g of salt + 6g of malt + 25g of honey and for a day at a temperature of 27 degrees), it grew about 3 times, after the second feeding (300g of old sourdough + 300g of wheat flour 1 grade, + 2g salt + 2g malt and for 7 hours at 27 degrees, double growth). The third, fourth and fifth feedings took place strictly according to the scheme, but already without salt and malt, at the same temperature, I only added time for 1 hour, the growth was scanty, the smell was not sourdough, the sixth time I already fed 150g of sourdough + 150g of flour + 90g flour, almost no growth, but the pores were small in all the leaven, as well as in 3, 4, 5 feeding, it was kept on the table in the kitchen, where it is now 20 degrees. Then I fed 50g of sourdough + 50g of flour + 30g of water (the purchased one was over, I used it from the tap) twice a day, the porosity was, the growth was small, there was no smell, something like machine oil. And yesterday, for the night, I fed a very small amount of sourdough, threw it into a glass from a multicooker, there was a lump at number 20, covered it with a film, pierced it with a toothpick and left it on the table. Before going to bed, I prepared two liter jars, in the morning I decided to start growing 100%.But a surprise - the sourdough in the glass reached 80, the pores increased in size, the smell is magical, fruity and yoghurt. I will still feed idle all day, and at night I will put the leaven for the bread, I will expose the photo after baking. And yet, as I stopped adding salt when kneading, viscousness appeared in the leaven.

[Peter Push]

Peter Push,

I write about it all the time - feed hard. Initial growth is not that. This is the growth of putrefactive and mucus-forming bacteria, hence the somewhat "fecal" smell. Then they die out with the accumulation of acidity, the formation of microflora takes place and suddenly with the next feeding - bang, a sharp increase. I myself have gone through this dozens of times, since I have a decent starter experience)). Congratulations on your excellent result.