Kalvel's sourdough and bread made with it

girls, help, maybe someone knows where the LUDY magazine disappeared 🔗I had so many things noted there, but I didn’t copy the bastard, but today I’m trying to go in all day and nothing comes out !!!

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, did I understand correctly that Calvel's leaven should be kneaded all the time with your hands? She's thick.
And another question, is it possible to cook it without malt?

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, did I understand correctly that Calvel's leaven should be kneaded all the time with your hands? She's thick.
And another question, is it possible to cook it without malt?

No, I knead with a fork. Malt is desirable. You can take kvass wort.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, yeah, I get it. Thanks for the quick response.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, yeah, I get it. Thanks for the quick response.

While feeding, pour the sourdough first with water, stir it intensively with a fork until it is almost a homogeneous liquid dough, then add flour and begin to mix with intensive circular movements in the center. As soon as the flour is moistened (it is kneaded well and quickly with this procedure), you can stop.

Scarecrow, thank you, otherwise I already tensed due to manual kneading. Is it better to cover it with a towel or a lid?
The temperature is already what the doctor ordered, but there is no malt or wort yet.

Girls, hello! I have such a problem with the sourdough (I have it on the bran), it has been standing for 4 days, I do everything according to the scheme, the temperature is +25, but it is so passive, please tell me is this normal, should it be? Worried

[Natalie]

Natalie Well, as long as there is no reason for concern, everything is going fine. Mine "began to move" only on the 5th day, it seems. Taste it. It should be sour and not disgusting. This leaven "thinks" for a long time before going into growth.

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl,
thank you very much for the quick response! Indeed, it happened exactly as you wrote! This morning it has increased in volume more than 2 times, and this is on the fifth day. In 2 days it will be ready for work, do I understand correctly?
It can be seen that the process has begun, but this is still not quite what is needed.

Photo:

[Natalie]

Natalie Hurrah!!! Congratulations! Yes, on the seventh day you can put it in the dough. I took out my sourdough diary - I baked for the first time on the 7th day on this sourdough and already in the dough added crumbs of pressed yeast - for help. Since the leaven has not yet entered its full strength, it is better to play it safe. Crumbs - the scales did not even show 1 g. Then the dough came up twice in about 6 hours! You have to be ready for this. A little later in the records - the sourdough takes 3-3.5 hours to rise twice (the age of the sourdough is about 3 weeks, the temperature is 21-22 degrees), two and a half times - 4 hours, it reached its peak (three times) and the beginning fall off - in 10 hours! This is the moment when you need to let her into the dough, she is just hungry and it will be good to raise bread. Good luck

[BlackHairedGirl,]

BlackHairedGirl,
Thank you again for the details of the behavior of the sourdough, for me this is very important, since this is the first time I deal with Kalvel's sourdough !!! Very useful and necessary information! I really liked the idea with the diary, I will also write everything down.

[Natalie]

Natalie Yes, I'm glad that my experience was useful to someone. And it was interesting to re-read it myself - I did such feats, I couldn't believe it myself. Yes, here's another from experience - to bring the leaven to a certain weight in an accumulative way, in two or three days, that is, there is no surplus as such, and nothing needs to be thrown away. And then all of it goes into the dough, and we wash off the remains on the walls of the jar with a small amount of water and add flour to the next batch of sourdough.

[BlackHairedGirl]

I report: I baked bread sourdough from bran according to Calvel, without adding yeast. In a glass pan, the bread rushed up and opened like a flower in the first 15 minutes of baking (with steam) in front of our eyes!

Thank you very much again for your advice and support. BlackHairedGirl

[Natalie]

Natalie Great! Wow! I see such beauty for the first time !!! Congratulations on the bread. In general, this behavior of the bread suggests that he was given little time for proving. And how long did he break up with you?

Handsome man, with your initiative! Proofing is too small, because of this, it jerked when heated.

[BlackHairedGirl]

BlackHairedGirl Scarecrow,
Thank you!
I absolutely agree with you about the proofing, the crumb in the upper part of the roll can be especially clearly seen that the bread has not risen enough. The proofer stood for about an hour at temp. +25. I will consider this moment for the future. The fact is that lately I have often used kefir sourdough on rye flour, it is so strong and active, but at that time I wanted pure white bread.

Girls, let's talk to you please

[Natalie]

Natalie Come on!

Faced with difficulty. And in what leaven do you start? Yesterday I put the starter culture in a plastic container, but I understand that it won't be enough when the starter culture starts to grow. A three-liter jar is not convenient for stirring the starter culture; a saucepan remains. Is it possible to put leaven into the metal?

: Is it possible to put leaven into the metal?

You can't!
Better glass. You can plastic.

the pan remains. :

I started a grape in a three-liter jar.
And the pan will do - enamel. A lot of gauze will go to tie it ... Otherwise, midges will immediately fly into the yummy

And I have a liter jar. Fine

And I have a liter jar. Fine

And grown in a liter jar? Doesn't fit? More precisely, it can run away. I left it in a plastic container for now, mine does not rise yet. But it's dumb to leave at night.

Thanks everyone for the help.

I used the cumulative method. Everything fit perfectly. I'll bring it to 300 grams - and into the dough. For the next sourdough I use water, with which I wash off the leftovers from the walls of the jar (a little, it seems 50 ml, I wrote about it somewhere on the site) and flour. And then I feed in the appropriate proportions until I have 300 grams. Nothing ever ran away.

I was afraid early on: my sourdough did not even think to run anywhere, once I started to rise, but after the previous feeding did not want to rise. I already read in the thread that this is normal. But new questions arose. Today is the third day of cultivation, in the evening I will feed it for the 6th time, is it possible to pick up the sourdough for the pancakes in the evening and can you feed not so much the next time, say, 100 g instead of 300 g of sourdough? And is it already trying to bake bread or wait until it starts to rise normally?

[Midnight lady]

Midnight lady I would still feed until the seventh day, and then take it for bread. You can, of course, use the excess in pancakes. But I wouldn't risk taking 100 grams instead of 300 grams. You are just growing her, she is still weak. There is not enough flora there yet.

Today I baked "Favorite bread from Raisin" at Kalvel, I liked the result very much!

Looks awesome!

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, Thank you so much!

[Natalie]

Natalie, great !!! Excellent bread, congratulations !!!

[BlackHairedGirl]

All thanks to your advice, BlackHairedGirl ! Thank you very much!
My starter was in full force, which allowed me not to add a single gram of yeast!
When the conceived bread turns out the way I imagine it, I experience such great joy and elation, beyond words. Maybe this happens only at the beginning, and then I get used to it? In the meantime, so far

[Natalie]

Natalie Yes, I myself was like that, I jumped to the ceiling with joy. I learned this from Natasha-Chuchelka. I baked bread so that I got out of a bucket, exhibited pictures somewhere. And no yeast at all. I'm very happy for you!!! The bread turned out like a professional, the first time !!!

[Scarecrow]

I think it's time for me to report on my leaven. She lifts herself three times in three hours. He lives in a liter jar in the refrigerator on a shelf where it is 10-12 degrees, there was still no other cool place in the apartment in summer, so I had to reduce the cold in the refrigerator a little.In the refrigerator, after feeding and holding, an hour on the table rises for about a day, and then begins to fall off. Sourdough on wheat flour of the first grade, on the same flour and bake bread. And I use filtered water and stood on the table for a couple of hours.
And here is my sourdough bread (no yeast) from a bread machine.




There is a slight sourness in the bread, but it cannot be compared with the sour taste of bread, which I got from the eternal leaven. However, my husband does not feel a sour taste at all in Calvel's sourdough bread, maybe I'm just too sensitive to sour taste? I also noticed that sourdough bread is eaten faster than pressed yeast bread.
Scarecrow, thank you very much for the science of growing sourdough. Of course, many tips and experiences from this and other sourdough topics were also very useful.

Good bread !! The crumb is generally flawless: large-pored, lush, much more beautiful than many yeast ones. The leaven is clearly sleek, because if you can do it manually with a medium-strength leaven, then for HP you need a good, strong one, because the process is faster there.

There is something to brag about, great!

I do not know if anyone has created a similar theme and whether they have made Kalvelevskaya sourdough.

Here Lyudmila gives a detailed description of the sourdough making.
🔗.
Hello everyone!
I'm new here
I got HP and I still want to bake rye bread (you know how they sell in the store), my husband loves him. I put the leaven as described by Lyudmila. But for some reason it just stands like a bun and does not fit ((((What did I do wrong?
She put the leaven yesterday, that is, the first 22 hours of her life. Should it increase in size or not? She covered her with a towel, and she was so hard on top as if windy ((((
Give smart advice)))))

Hello!
I'm new to bread making ... I just can't bake rye bread (I baked it like in a recipe book - not that ...), I want it to taste like the store sells it.
Yesterday I put the leaven as Lyudmila advises. But somehow she didn't grow up ...
Tell me, it is very important that:
1.wheat flour was exactly 1c
2.the temperature in the room is not less than 27 degrees
3.Is it necessary to cover the container with the starter culture with a lid or can you cover it with a towel
4.my kolobok of sourdough (I covered it with a towel) is so hard, on top it just got a strong crust ...
Teach me, please.
Everyone who responds - many thanks

[T @ tyank @]

T @ tyank @ I made the highest grade of flour. The temperature in the room was somewhere around 20 degrees. I did not cover it with a towel, it dries quickly under it and becomes crusted. I covered it with a plastic cap, opening a small gap. Do not put on the jar, just cover. So that the inside of the jar has its own microclimate, and it is not hot, but also not cold. The gingerbread man on top of you has dried up, it's not scary, remove the top dried crust and continue on. A couple of days should be at the pace. 20 degrees, so that the leaven begins to ferment. Smell it when it starts to ferment, it smells very tasty, like yeast dough or something like it. At first, it increases in size very reluctantly. Almost stands still. Good luck!

[T @ tyank @,]

T @ tyank @,
My Calvel's sourdough began to rise only after the sixth feeding, and then when I said that she received all the prescribed feedings, and until she grew at least twice, I would no longer feed and did not feed her for about 18 hours. She rose three times.
I also covered the top with a dry crust, but then I covered the container with the leaven wet a towel (without folding it, that is, so that there is air access), after that the crust stopped forming.

Midnigth lady,
I have already put in a new portion of the leaven (because for the first time I tried with the amount of water, I poured little water ..)
And now the starter culture feels good.And I also put it in a container with a lid, slightly covering it (following the example of BlackHairedGirl)
Today I fed the leaven for the third time. And I must say that this time it grows and smells already sour!
I think everything will work out.
It remains only to figure out the bread baking regime.
And you baked rye bread. I understand that the whole process takes about 6 hours. But in my HP there is no such regime ((((I guess))
Thank you for participating!

[T @ tyank @]

T @ tyank @

And you baked rye bread.

If this is a question - then no, I have never baked with sourdough. Baked, but only by leaps and bounds.

I understand that the whole process takes about 6 hours. But in my HP there is no such regime ((((I think))

Yes, you understood correctly. But you can adapt to the bread maker - I did this, first kneading (Pelmeni mode), then I turn it off and wait for the rise. When it rises twice, I turn on the Baking for 1 hour.

Today I fed the leaven for the third time. And I must say that this time it grows and smells already sour!

Congratulations, the ice is broken. Keep us informed

I have already put in a new batch of yeast
And now the starter culture feels good.And I also put it in a container with a lid, slightly covering it (following the example of BlackHairedGirl)
I think everything will work out.

Kaneshna will work!

I baked rye bread with Calvel's sourdough. I took Borodino bread from the instructions for HP Panasonic as a basis and counted it for sourdough. I baked like this: I kneaded the dough in the evening and put it in a bucket in the refrigerator until morning. In the morning I took out a bucket on the table for an hour (to warm up), added oil, put on the Dough program (for me this is a usual kneading + proofing, it only lasts 1:30, the most important thing is without a kneading at the end of the program). Then the HP turned off and allowed the dough to settle until it increased 2-2.5 times (in the summer it took two hours, in total it turned out 3 hours). Then she turned on baking for an hour. I really liked the bread. Yes, my leaven was already quite ripe by that time, about a month and a half old. If you want a recipe, whistle.

, aaaaaaaaa, I jinxed my leaven - I don't want to grow in volume ...
what to do? to make a new one or to watch this one?
And here's another thing I wanted to know: is the time between complementary foods exactly necessary to withstand or is + - allowed?

[T @ tyank @]

T @ tyank @ Don't panic! What day is your leaven today? Fourth? It's too early to demand anything from her. Wait for body movements on the 6th-7th day ... Continue feeding by the hour, plus or minus 15 minutes does not matter.

BlackHairedGirl, day four indeed. But somehow my sourdough doesn't smell very well ... It seems to me that it smells slightly of acetone ... Most likely it did not survive ...

[T @ tyank @]

T @ tyank @ It's your will, but ... It's still too early to draw conclusions, I would have fed for a couple of days.

BlackHairedGirl, tell me, is it necessary to take the initial volume of flour in the amount of 600g (300 + 300)?
It's just somehow a pity to throw so much product in the trash ... So I took half of what I needed ... maybe this also influenced the process of making the sourdough?

[T @ tyank @]

T @ tyank @ I think that it is not necessary to take the full amount of flour. If you read my posts at the beginning, I wrote there about my growing experience ... I did it from half the volume of flour and everything worked out. Huge bread, look at the photo, it seems p. 7 or somewhere there ... So to influence - did not affect. The flour itself, temperature and humidity have a much greater influence there. If the pace. 20-23 degrees, the proportions of flour-water are taken as per instructions, then the quality of flour remains. You can try adding a little whole grain if available. Or rye. Or first grade.

BlackHairedGirl, thanks for the advice and participation
Maybe it's really all about flour ... you have to try ..
You see, everything went well from the very beginning of the process, but when I already started feeding the leaven with rye flour, it somehow withered ... Maybe I shouldn't have done this? It's just that Lyudmila gives a description of the leaven. 🔗 and says that what kind of bread do you want to bake, with that flour and feed .... Or did I not understand?

[T @ tyank @]

T @ tyank @
The thing is that Lyudmila describes experiments with her own torment (where does she live ?! In Canada!), And we are trying to repeat this with our own. And our flour is DIFFERENT. And there are additives in it, and bleaches, and it is ground from wheat of different quality ...So the terms that Lyudmila points out in her LiveJournal do not coincide with ours ... Not on the third day, but on the seventh day she comes to life ... How many people have tried here ... You do not rush things, let your leaven grow stronger ... First, let enough flora be divorced on one grade of flour, so that it becomes stronger, more active ... Mine began to stir on the seventh day, and I baked the first successful bread on it on the eighteenth! Until then, she was still weak ... After a week, try adding it to the dough, at first help her with crumbs of yeast ... And only then, when she will raise the bread three times herself, then feed her with rye ...
By the way, we have experience in breeding rye sourdough here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...42973.0
Rye bread is very good on it, and it seems that you can store it in the refrigerator.
If you need sourdough just for rye bread, maybe it will be easier to remove this one? Kalvelevskaya is rather difficult to breed and long. BUT ... She's worth the pain. Top-grade fragrant bread comes out on it. And to suffer with its removal, then to transfer it to rye ... If it is not important for you how to get the ferment for rye, then you can try a faster way. Eternal leaven is not bad for rye. By the way, there is also a very light raisin sourdough, I made it, I really liked it for its lightness:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...17861.0

How do you smell it now?

BlackHairedGirl, oh thank you for the clarification)))
I feel like the one who did not climb into her sleigh. But nothing - diligence and patience!
I don't like the smell - at all (((((((((
Most likely, I rushed in time and thereby blew it up completely ...
I think to put a new one and no longer force events, but to observe ... It is probably necessary to start a diary of the life of the leaven and record all its movements ...
Thank you so much for the links. I'll try to put those leavens. I have to gain experience)))