Sourdough on grapes

: cray: did everything, but no growth and no ...
probably not destiny.

: cray: did everything, but no growth and no ...
probably not destiny.

And why should she grow up, if she is already fed, she does not have time to get hungry. Let her starve four times and she will change her mind. They fed and left at room temperature for eight hours. It should bounce back in one and a half to two days.

I poured it into the dough though. Everything. Buried therefore
I decided to ferment something simpler, potatoes or raisins, maybe I'll be more lucky there.
Viki thank you and everyone for the answers

: cray: did everything, but no growth and no ...
probably not destiny.

and I have .. from November 13 .. already 10 days today ..

and I have .. from November 13 .. already 10 days today ..

What a disgrace, girls? So many days to be silent!
There shouldn't be any growth. On the fifth or sixth day, it was necessary to begin to soften it, that is, to make a leaven from it. And it usually begins to grow not from the first feeding - rejuvenation.
My liquid one stands and wanders without moving for 5-6 days, then I take a glass of what happened + a glass of water + a glass of flour, mix it. And so 4 times every 4 hours. Only after that, I make it thicker and it begins to actively grow.

Girls, tell me how much life does grape leaven have? also like a Frenchwoman - 6 months old or not?

Girls, tell me how much life does grape leaven have? also like a Frenchwoman - 6 months old or not?

Any wheat leaven gets tired in 6 months. If you want to use it longer, you will need to feed it with rye flour, or whole grain flour, or soak the bran in warm water and use it for feeding, you can give it a drop of honey as a source of vitamins.

Vicki, thanks for the feedback.
I was generally interested in principle
I am opposed to resuscitation in relation to leaven. if she has such a lifespan, then there is no need to regret.
I'd rather grow the next one, young and beautiful

What a disgrace, girls? So many days to be silent!
There shouldn't be any growth. On the fifth or sixth day, it was necessary to begin to soften it, that is, to make a leaven from it. And she usually begins to grow not from the first feeding - rejuvenation.
My liquid one stands and wanders without moving for 5-6 days, then I take a glass of what happened + a glass of water + a glass of flour, mix it. And so 4 times every 4 hours. Only after that, I make it thicker and it begins to actively grow.

I'm already embarrassed, I tried so many times and not a single result: cray: Not only does it not start to grow, but, in general, in not a single leaven (or, more correctly, an attempt to ferment) did not see any bulbs indicating the correctness of the process. And in the summer, in the heat, I tried it from curdled milk, and in the fall from grapes, and two weeks ago - French (the last "something" is still in the kitchen, covered with a thick film) .. If there was someone to ask around exactly at the moment when the question arises ( maybe I somehow misunderstand) .. somehow in ICQ or in an agent .. (if in Ukraine, then I would ask permission to call the mob) .. here ..

Hello dear fermentors.
I'm trying to grow grape sourdough, I don't have any experience in such experiments at all, so I'm confused and probably wrong. Need your help. My affairs are as follows:
grew sourdough according to this recipe 🔗, everything was fine, I had the last top dressing, the sourdough by this time had more than doubled, it became so bubbly, stretching, with a pleasant smell. I poured a glass, added flour and water, mixed and happily set it to grow further, hoping that tomorrow I would bake bread.But tomorrow it just bubbled slightly on the top and did not want to rise at all, and that wonderful bubble structure was gone. Yes, her smell has also changed a little, nutty and apple notes have appeared, the smell has become more noble or something. Today is the next day after the above-described "tomorrow", the picture is the same - small bubbles on the surface, tiny bubbles are visible through the glass and in the bulk of the mass, but there is no active rise. What can I do to revive the processes, what is the error? I hope for your support and help. Thank you.

there is no active rise. What can I do to revive the processes, what is the error?

Yes, there is no mistake here, just liquid leaven does not grow, everything is correct. Once you add flour to the consistency of sour cream or pancake dough, you will not recognize it. Try to take a portion and knead a little dough as hard as bread and see what happens in 2 hours.

Thank you very much for your answer, I had such a suspicion, but I was afraid to check, now I will try, then I will tell you what happened. Tell me, is it possible to run such a liquid leaven, as I have now, in bread dough? Or does it first need to grow to an increase in volume, and only then into a dough?

[by weight]

can such a liquid leaven, as I have now, be put into bread dough?

Of course you can, just adjust the bun so that it is not too liquid or too thick. For this reason, I keep it in the ratio of water to flour 1: 1 by weight, very comfortably. Fed - doubled - into dough.

Viki, thanks again for your support. My beauty came to life. On the part that caused my doubts, I baked bread, it seemed like it turned out, I'll go with it to the right topic.
Now it remains for me to understand how to live on with the leaven. If you bake every day, then divide into two parts - one into bread, the other feed again until the next bread. Is it necessary to feed several times or is one enough?
Or, if I’m not going to bake bread, then I put the leaven in a cool place and don’t feed, but when I’m ready, I start feeding (how many times before baking?)

Today is the 4th day of my leaven. It's time to feed, I opened the can, and there is such a smell! It smells deliciously delicious, with a light hint of grapes, such a candy smell, and I wanted to eat it, this unprepared leaven. I fed her and closed her again. And now I am tormented by the question - is this normal? According to the instructions, there should have been an unpleasant alcoholic smell, but it was not. But yesterday, on the third day, the leaven was quite active, fermented, froth and rose, everything, as the book writes. Today has calmed down a bit.

Lying, I had a wonderful smell all the time (fruit and grape), he began to give alcoholic on the last day, you see fermentation was already very active

And I have mold on sourdough by the 10th day. I thought you shouldn't touch her at all from 5 to 9 days, so I did not touch her. All this time there was a separated liquid on top and a bag of grapes was floating. I didn't even open the can. And today I opened it, and there is mold, and now I read that the mold should be removed as soon as it appeared. And how do I know when she appeared there. Here I am inattentive.
Now you have to throw it away.

I stood here in the bushes, taking notes, reading LJ smart, and now it's the sixth day of my leaven (tamagotchi). The client is rather alive, mmm. Foams slightly, gurgles, oladushkin consistency. In the course of my life I can offer my know-how. I did not put the grapes in gauze, but a mesh like this


Chinese garlic is sold in such nets. Wash, wash, pour boiling water, and then push the grapes into it, grab the tail with a rubber band and, behold, the grape sausage is ready. Nothing falls out, everything penetrates. The beauty!
And I also put a kefir mushroom in such a net - it's convenient.
Well, and on the topic: please tell me how much to put the ready-made sourdough in the bread dough, if I don't know how much water and flour it contains? Really look at the kolobok? Well, at least approximately ...

... I don't know how much water and flour it contains.
Well, at least approximately ...

Do not know? Disorder!
Let's count? We will need: scales, calculator, mathematics, logic.
So: in your ferment of flour and water 1: 1 by volume, we know that in a glass there are 240 ml. water 240 g, flour 150 g. Divide flour into water and calculate the coefficient:
150: 240 = 0.625 - this means that every 100 g of your starter contains 62.5 g of water. Accordingly, 100 - 62.5 = 37.5 g flour.
Do we count further?
Let's say you want to bake bread according to a recipe with 500 g of flour and 300 g of water, using 200 g of sourdough.
So in the leaven you will have
water - 62.5 times 2 = 125 g
flour - 37.5 multiplied by 2 = 75 g
It remains to add
water 300 -125 = 175 g
flour 500 - 75 = 425 g
So why approximately, when you can exactly?

Although ... this is calculated a little differently, or rather, quite the opposite:
divide water into flour and get% hydration:
240: 150 = 1.6 and multiplied by 100 = 160 - this means that for every 100 g of flour there is 160 g of water.
But it seems to me that the first method will be easier for you.
Simply, if reading clever LJ you will come across: "leaven of 160% hydration", you know - this is yours.

[Vika!]

Vika! And tell me, please, so that I don't fail the second attempt, do you need to stir the leaven from 5 to 9 days every day? Or just open up and see if there is mold?

[Lozja]

Lozja, if you make a grape starter, then it is made for a maximum of 6 days.

[Lozja]

Lozja, if you make a grape starter, then it is made for a maximum of 6 days.

I make grape. But what about the recipe at the beginning of the topic? I strictly follow it.

Give me a reference, where the leaven is in 6 days, because I'm already completely confused.

[Lozja]

Lozja, in vain I probably knocked you down. I made Nancy Silverton grape starter. I can just copy the text here. But you'd better wait for Vika, she's an ace in leaven.

[Lozja]

Lozja, in vain I probably knocked you down. I made Nancy Silverton grape starter. I can just copy the text here. But you'd better wait for Vika, she's an ace in leaven.

No, no, it's okay. I have already reached in the comments of this topic before the girls made the leaven in 6 days and found this leaven from Lyudmila in LJ.
But, of course, the matter is, now I don't know how best to proceed. My third day, it is bubbling a little. Planting grapes for 250 g (half a portion). I closed it tightly with a lid, "as a book writes."
Now there are two options for my actions: 1. Leave everything as it is and continue to follow the original recipe, but the first time I did not succeed very well.
2. Begin to drain the juice every day, mix with flour (it is not clear - how much flour should I give in my case?), Add to the leaven. Make holes in the lid to breathe. On the 7th day, start to rejuvenate.
What is there to do?

And I am also confused by this addition of flour to the separated liquid in the leaven. If we add only flour, then how can we understand the percentage of sourdough hydration? The original proportions will go wrong.

2. Begin to drain the juice every day, mix with flour (it is not clear - how much flour should I give in my case?), Add to the leaven. Make holes in the lid to breathe. On the 7th day, start to rejuvenate.
What is there to do?

And I am also confused by this addition of flour to the separated liquid in the leaven. If we add only flour, then how can we understand the percentage of sourdough hydration? The original proportions will go wrong.

According to Nancy's recipe, it is not at all necessary to feed the sourdough, you can not touch it at all during this time. But you can, if a lot of juice is released in the jar with the mixture, drain it and add by the volume of flour - you poured 0.5 cups of juice, then add 0.5 cups of flour to it, mix and pour back. Stir well still. The volume of the mass will not change.
As for the percentage of sourdough hydration, everything will even out later - it doesn't matter at all now.

Girls, dear ones, this is not how I do it at all, I am a practitioner, I studied the theory, and practice suggested to me a completely different course of events.
I mix water and flour, put a bag of grapes in there and only stir once a day. On the 5th - 6th day, when the smell of alcoholic fermentation appears, I soften it.
I do it like this: 1 cup of leaven + 1 cup of water + 1 cup of flour, and so on 3 - 4 times every 3 - 4 hours. Then I take a couple of spoons and add flour and water by weight. And I keep it 1: 1 by weight.

Girls, dear ones, this is not how I do it at all, I am a practitioner, I studied the theory, and practice suggested to me a completely different course of events.
I mix water and flour, put a bag of grapes in there and only stir once a day. On the 5th - 6th day, when the smell of alcoholic fermentation appears, I soften it.
I do it like this: 1 cup of leaven + 1 cup of water + 1 cup of flour, and so on 3 - 4 times every 3 - 4 hours. Then I take a couple of spoons and add flour and water by weight. And I keep it 1: 1 by weight.

Thank you! So I will, then, since strictly according to the recipe, I did not succeed. And where do you keep and how often do you use / feed?

[Lozja]

And where do you keep and how often do you use / feed?

Lozja, with me you can call "you", I'm a young girl (well, it seems to me).
I keep it as necessary. While she has not yet seen my refrigerator and lives on the windowsill, it is not hot there. I am thermophilic and I have about 25 - 26 * C all winter, or even hotter. I'm feeding now ... if it's correct, they say 1: 2, but if it's like "tough" bakers, they only count flour in sourdough and in top dressing. And if in our opinion - then 1: 4. In short: for, say, 50 g of sourdough, 100 g of water and 100 g of flour. I feed it 2 times a day, but I shift in time, not enough for 12 hours. But this is for now. I only have it for the second week and I bake - I am not overjoyed, then pancakes, then pancakes.
When I play enough, I will feed 1: 1: 1, stand for an hour on the table and send to my small car refrigerator for three days, I have 10 * C there.

Do not know? Disorder!
Let's count? We will need: scales, calculator, mathematics, logic.

Thank you for responding

It’s all true, only the three pieces are wrong. The fact is that I always change something in recipes. And here again. It seemed to me that the leaven was a little thin - it splashed half a glass of flour more, then again (what if she wants to eat, and I'm torturing her) - again a couple of spoons on top. Now it is a little thicker in consistency than for pancakes. Maybe from experience, tell me how much of this leaven? I read what was written and understood the stupidity of the question. Sori.

It’s all true, only the three pieces are wrong.

So it's not so easy to make "what you need" from a "three-piece":
We take 10 g of what we have and add 50 g of water and 50 g of flour, as it matures, you can still have at least 50, and at least 100 and there will be exactly 100% sourdough.
And it is easy and simple to store and count.

[Vika]

Vika, one more question. When you grow the leaven, do you cover it tightly with a lid, or with gauze to breathe? Yesterday I changed the lid to gauze, now I doubt it ...

So it's not so easy to make "what you need" from a "three-piece":
And it is easy and simple to store and count.

THANK YOU! Tsemachkayu! Clarification is coming ...
I suspected that everything was relative. For example, we do not take into account the volume of juice released by grapes, Luda adds a little more flour, Nancy does not say anything at all about volumes, etc. But here's what you can make candy out of THIS ...
I love you !!!!!

[Lozja]

Lozja, you do not need to cover with a lid, carbon dioxide is released during fermentation, let it go away
I don't understand why everyone has such troubles with grape sourdough, I have grown it for the fifth time without any problems

Troubles because for the first time, and for the fifth time, I think everything will be OK.
The road will be mastered by the walking

I don't understand why everyone has such troubles with grape leaven.

For the first time, always using the "eyes are afraid, but hands are doing" method.
Sourdough, more often than not, does not even know how the hostess is going through.
Let's overcome all troubles!
And then I cover it with gauze (so that midges do not fly from all over the street into my jar), and that is, I have lids with holes. We don't need carbon dioxide, let it fly away through a hole or gauze.

[Vika]

Vikaand what flour do you feed this leaven? V. s. or 1st?

[Vika]

Vikaand what flour do you feed this leaven? V. s. or 1st?

Last year I had a bag of the highest grade, it ran out and I started feeding first (cheaper, and I didn't have a special refrigerator and she ate every 8 hours).
This year I stocked up 1c and feed .... feed ...

Well what can I say. I’ll probably throw away all this amateur performance, I didn’t get anything good. I started to soften it on the 7th day, when the smell was light alcohol (not strong), it smelled slightly of wine. I fed her all day, she did not grow, of course.Then she took a little and gave already flour-water by weight the same, 120 g each. And nothing, it costs a day, there are small bubbles on top, the liquid has already begun to separate. It stinks like a garbage chute (not very nice, that is).
There are still grapes left in the refrigerator. I will probably make one last attempt with a long method. The first time I got something with a stupefied smell, I just missed the mold, so I had to throw it out.
But I'm stubborn. Well, at least there is a bag of flour in stock.

Lozya, maybe you should try another starter culture? you never know, maybe this one is not yours?
and why long-term method? 5-6 days - and she seems to be already ready
Although I did it last month - and it didn't work out for me. Like that, it also did not grow, although it smelled wonderful, but a week of resuscitation and maintaining this disabled sourdough - I was morally exhausted, waved my hand, threw it out and put it from Misha's LJ, now I use it

Lozya, maybe you should try another starter culture? you never know, maybe this one is not yours?
and why long-term method? 5-6 days - and she seems to be already ready
Although I did it last month - and it didn't work out for me. Like that, it also did not grow, although it smelled wonderful, but a week of resuscitation and maintaining this disabled sourdough - I was morally exhausted, waved my hand, threw it out and put it from Misha's LJ, now I use it

Well, as I read that it is so fragrant and wonderful for butter dough, I really wanted to. Long-term, because this method really worked for me, very tasty and pleasantly smelling. And for 5-6 days I did not succeed.

aaaa, then I see
but the Frenchwoman is good for baking, and the one I use now is great baking ...
I'm the same stubborn - that's at least burst, but I need exactly this and in no case anything else

aaaa, then I see
but the Frenchwoman is good for baking, and the one I use now is great baking ...
I'm the same stubborn - that's at least burst, but I need exactly this and in no case anything else

That otozh. Such was the smell for the first time, while the grapes were still squirming there - I still dream! If the sourdough itself should smell like that, then I want it!

[Lozja]

Oh, what are you Lozja small steel There was just a kitty who turned into a girl .... Miracles!

[Lozja]

Oh, what are you Lozja small steel There was just a kitty who turned into a girl .... Miracles!

The kitty is from a past life, now I was already born and went to kindergarten.

[Viki]

Viki !
May I have a question? In general, so. This leaven was born to me (I think so). For a week I feed 100g twice a day. starter cultures + 100g. water + 100gr. flour. As a result: foams - Yes, swims - how! all on top of the water. Halved is used for pancakes. But I'm afraid that after a week of daily eating everyone will get bored. I'm afraid to start more serious work, because it doesn't rise much in the jug. Well, half a centimeter maximum. Bubbles, then foams, but does not rise. The smell is pleasant, but not lactic acid. I read that Sigismund had the same problem on 5 pages. But after reading the resuscitation measures, I don't know what to choose (refrigerator, thicken, etc.) I would like it to be like in the photo of Lyudmila - perforated, fluffy, strong! What do you advise?

... I don't know what to choose (refrigerator, thicken, etc.) I would like it to be like in the photo of Lyudmila - perforated, fluffy, strong! What do you advise?

Definitely - thicken. The thinner it is, the less it can lift itself. Thick to me rose up to 4 times.

[Viki]

Viki !
Thank you! She galloped off to thicken!
I'm thick like this: 2 tbsp. l. what is + 100g. water + 100gr. flour? Right?

Little flour, the dough should be steep

[himichka]

himichka !
Good evening! Thank you for responding! But how, then, to count 100% sourdough, if you add more flour than water?